@ BioWare: Is the population wrong or did Marauders Need Buffs & Mercs Nerfs?

[Slurmez]

I for one have been playing a marauder since early access.... I can tell you, and you should know if you were around back then, that marauders were all but totally broken until 1.2.

 

In fact the only worse class in terms of not meeting desired performance was an Operative. Where they could pop their adrenals and relic and stun lock and kill Anyone in 3-4 seconds.

 

Fact is... from what bioware sees in their game metrics - marauders are performing as intended.

 

Why dont you all complain about assassins and the crap they can do?

 

Heres a problem with "ingame metrics" they only tell a fraction of the story and dont translate well into actual performance, yes maras/sents were not great at launch but they have been on top of the heap for some time now.

 

Im guessing they see things like the non melee classes firing their ranged abilities at all times, things like hammer shot while sents/maras have a "gap" where they have to close before they can do damage but that doesnt necessarily mean the rdps translates into more useful damage over the gaps followed by huge burst of the mdps.

 

Poor developers depend way too much on "metrics" these days and ignore other information, as in real time play and feedback, design by accountancy never works.

 

Maras/sents got a fractional nerf and the biggest faceroll spec with the hardest hitting ability in the game buffed which is nonsense, Pyros actually got a real game buff with explosive dart and thermal detonator no longer sharing a cooldown meaning I can now backload even more damage, the range "nerf" was annoyingish but Im finding the dart/detonator much more useful than 30m incendiary/detonator.

[rob_y]

Yeah:

 

a) warzones are such small scale (8v8) that any class that is 'better' for a 1v1 automatically has an advantage, especially when there are splits (eg. 2 guarding or attacking a turret/door)

 

b) With the exception of snipers, the concept of 'ranged' in pvp is little better than a temporary illusion in this game. Most melee have the ability to close to their optimal distance and stay there virtually at will.

 

c) there is no such thing as being able to 'avoid' fighting particular classes as a commando. You have no escape tools, and no means of picking and choosing your fights.

 

In response to a) - No commando or Sage should be left to solo guard anything ever. Their classes aren't designed for that. Leave that to a tank, or a stealth class, or maybe a gunslinger. Even Pugs usually know this and naturally a stealther or a tank volunteers to head to a side node.

 

In response to b) - My highest two alts are a 46 Commando and a 50 Guardian. So, while some people may know more about kiting than me, I at least have some experience with it from each side of the equation. I feel like people think it's hard to kite Knights/Warriors because they try to kite them only when they're already in melee range, but you have to start applying slows and strafing away (NOT backpedaling) when the fight is still in the 20-30m range, NOT when the Knight/Warrior is already on top of you. And stopping to cast? Don't be crazy. If you're kiting, you don't stop to cast. Of course, your DPS will be down, but do you know how much damage my Guardian does while at 11-30m? Barely any. He has a Saber Throw twice a minute which does about the damage your hammer shot does, and he can leap to you every 15 seconds. You know what you can do after those leaps? Concussion Charge or Cryo Grenade and then continue to kite.

 

Is it perfect? Of course not. But keep melee away from you in the first place, rather than try to get away from melee that's ALREADY on top of you (because then you're in range of their own snares). And anything with a cast bar should be saved for situations when you're not kiting someone. Don't expect 100% DPS rates 100% of the time (melee classes don't have this, either).

 

In response to c) - See my answer to A. And since you're staying with the larger group instead of trying to perform jobs your class isn't built for, like solo guarding, the dynamic is completely different. Maybe a melee does get on you. You can still kite like I mentioned above, but now you have the added dimension of being able to have a friend throw a slow or CC on the Knight (of course, you might also get slowed or CCed by someone else - this isn't a 1v1 game, after all). And if you really feel like Knights/Warriors are picking out DPS Commandos to focus down while simultaneously saying that DPS Commandos aren't providing useful damage, then that means that the Knights/Warriors are probably picking their targets wrong, because if your job isn't to be on a healer throwing interrupts, you should probably be with the rest of the team focusing down high priority targets (and if a Commando is a high priority target, then our work here is done, and they're in good shape).

 

In a group fight, it's unlikely to be a bunch of 1v1s, anyway, since focus-firing will happen. You know where ranged classes have a nice advantage over melee? Switching targets to focus fire. Ranged classes can easily switch to whomever the group is now newly targeting, or someone who's about to go down, or they can do things like CC the guy attacking them, then switch back to the group target. You know what melee classes can do? Attack the person right next to them, or use their 15 second cooldown leap to get to a new target (which means you're now on that target for a while, or someone nearby, even if you'd like to switch again).

 

So, if the whole warzone is a zerg fight and a Ranged and a Melee each do 400k damage, and are each played by similarly skilled players, a larger percent of the ranged character's 400k damage was probably directed at an efficient target from a group perspective.

 

I'll close with, again, are Knights and Commandos in perfect balance? Probably not. Commandos could use some love. But, don't try to play a ranged class as if it was a melee class and you might get some better results.

[Slicktime]

In response to a) - No commando or Sage should be left to solo guard anything ever. Their classes aren't designed for that. Leave that to a tank, or a stealth class, or maybe a gunslinger. Even Pugs usually know this and naturally a stealther or a tank volunteers to head to a side node.

 

In response to b) - My highest two alts are a 46 Commando and a 50 Guardian. So, while some people may know more about kiting than me, I at least have some experience with it from each side of the equation. I feel like people think it's hard to kite Knights/Warriors because they try to kite them only when they're already in melee range, but you have to start applying slows and strafing away (NOT backpedaling) when the fight is still in the 20-30m range, NOT when the Knight/Warrior is already on top of you. And stopping to cast? Don't be crazy. If you're kiting, you don't stop to cast. Of course, your DPS will be down, but do you know how much damage my Guardian does while at 11-30m? Barely any. He has a Saber Throw twice a minute which does about the damage your hammer shot does, and he can leap to you every 15 seconds. You know what you can do after those leaps? Concussion Charge or Cryo Grenade and then continue to kite.

 

Is it perfect? Of course not. But keep melee away from you in the first place, rather than try to get away from melee that's ALREADY on top of you (because then you're in range of their own snares). And anything with a cast bar should be saved for situations when you're not kiting someone. Don't expect 100% DPS rates 100% of the time (melee classes don't have this, either).

 

In response to c) - See my answer to A. And since you're staying with the larger group instead of trying to perform jobs your class isn't built for, like solo guarding, the dynamic is completely different. Maybe a melee does get on you. You can still kite like I mentioned above, but now you have the added dimension of being able to have a friend throw a slow or CC on the Knight (of course, you might also get slowed or CCed by someone else - this isn't a 1v1 game, after all). And if you really feel like Knights/Warriors are picking out DPS Commandos to focus down while simultaneously saying that DPS Commandos aren't providing useful damage, then that means that the Knights/Warriors are probably picking their targets wrong, because if your job isn't to be on a healer throwing interrupts, you should probably be with the rest of the team focusing down high priority targets (and if a Commando is a high priority target, then our work here is done, and they're in good shape).

 

In a group fight, it's unlikely to be a bunch of 1v1s, anyway, since focus-firing will happen. You know where ranged classes have a nice advantage over melee? Switching targets to focus fire. Ranged classes can easily switch to whomever the group is now newly targeting, or someone who's about to go down, or they can do things like CC the guy attacking them, then switch back to the group target. You know what melee classes can do? Attack the person right next to them, or use their 15 second cooldown leap to get to a new target (which means you're now on that target for a while, or someone nearby, even if you'd like to switch again).

 

So, if the whole warzone is a zerg fight and a Ranged and a Melee each do 400k damage, and are each played by similarly skilled players, a larger percent of the ranged character's 400k damage was probably directed at an efficient target from a group perspective.

 

I'll close with, again, are Knights and Commandos in perfect balance? Probably not. Commandos could use some love. But, don't try to play a ranged class as if it was a melee class and you might get some better results.

 

for me its not a l2p issue. its a tools issue. melee have all the tools to stay within range and commandos have nothing to keep melee's away. so you are saying that we should automatically run like h3ll and spam hammer shot a spammable but completely pathetic attack while we allow you to jump to us every 15 sec. we are rooted for 1 or 2 sec while u pound us, attempt to run away again while u slow/root us? finally after the root is over we continue to run... then you jump to us again. like i said before melee have all the tools to stay in range and we don't have enough to keep them away. commando pvp is far different at lvl 50. sure i could top dps charts in pre 50 wz's but there were a lot of bad players and players without many skills yet(low level). i know there can never be complete balance but come on this is a joke. any marauder vs commando lvl 50 same skill and gear the marauder will come out on top everytime.

[crunchbarry]

u guys mad?

[Jherad]

Befuddled.

[Chaoskyx]

Bewildered.

[rob_y]

for me its not a l2p issue. its a tools issue. melee have all the tools to stay within range and commandos have nothing to keep melee's away. so you are saying that we should automatically run like h3ll and spam hammer shot a spammable but completely pathetic attack while we allow you to jump to us every 15 sec. we are rooted for 1 or 2 sec while u pound us, attempt to run away again while u slow/root us? finally after the root is over we continue to run... then you jump to us again. like i said before melee have all the tools to stay in range and we don't have enough to keep them away. commando pvp is far different at lvl 50. sure i could top dps charts in pre 50 wz's but there were a lot of bad players and players without many skills yet(low level). i know there can never be complete balance but come on this is a joke. any marauder vs commando lvl 50 same skill and gear the marauder will come out on top everytime.

 

You have the tools to keep them off of you.

 

T=0: Force Leap #1 - Concussion Charge

T = 15s: Force Leap #2 - Cryo Grenade

T = 30s: Force Leap #3 - Concussion Charge

T = 45s: Force Leap #4 - Concussive Round w/ Tech Override or Cybertech Seismic Grenade

T = 60s: Force Leap #5 - Concussion Charge

T = 75s: Force Leap #6 - Cryo Grenade

T = 90s: Force Leap #7 - Concussion Charge

 

and so on.

 

If you're in a 1v1 for even one third that long in a WZ, you're either derping around away from a node, in which case no one cares if you die, or one of the teams is REALLY bad at reacting to a call for help to defend.

[foxmob]

Don't bother. He plays a Marauder, and by default, has zero understanding of what it's like to do anything but godmode on an OP class.

 

On the same note, It should be obvious to anyone which direction this game is going. It's melee-centric. Even the hybrid range class (PT/Vanguard) has been nerfed into melee range with 1.4. If you want to play a ranged class in PvP, play a Sniper. It's the only viable option.

 

omg! I'm agreeing with TheronFett. the sky just fell...somewhere.

 

I've seen some fairly effective balance sorcs (forget the tree. kinetic? iunno). but yeah, the game is very clearly geared in favor of melee. the idea is that melee/tanks are front line troops who absorb the bulk of the dmg while the ranged units fire their proverbial arrows overhead. but the reality of pvp is such that no ranged units can effectively maintain range from a determined melee. it just so happens that the most popular melee (mara/sent) is least effective against snipers because their gap closer doesn't work (and now the VG/PT stun is too short range, so they cannot pull anyone out from cover). additionally, the sniper brings more utility than either of the other ranged units. at the end of the day, however, they're still ranged and, thus, not much more than auxiliary units beside the Roman legions.

 

the only way to stop me from mauling a ranged unit is to have 2 or more other units focus firing me down before I get there. it's kind of unrealistic to expect 2 or 3 ppl to peel off to save your sniper/merc/sorc when my 3 buddies are going at your healer. so the safe ranged guy really only exists when a) not targeted or b) screwing around in a pug.

[Slicktime]

You have the tools to keep them off of you.

 

T=0: Force Leap #1 - Concussion Charge

T = 15s: Force Leap #2 - Cryo Grenade

T = 30s: Force Leap #3 - Concussion Charge

T = 45s: Force Leap #4 - Concussive Round w/ Tech Override or Cybertech Seismic Grenade

T = 60s: Force Leap #5 - Concussion Charge

T = 75s: Force Leap #6 - Cryo Grenade

T = 90s: Force Leap #7 - Concussion Charge

 

and so on.

 

If you're in a 1v1 for even one third that long in a WZ, you're either derping around away from a node, in which case no one cares if you die, or one of the teams is REALLY bad at reacting to a call for help to defend.

 

show me 1 video of a commando surviving 90s against a marauder... DON'T WORRY I'LL WAIT.

[Slicktime]

You have the tools to keep them off of you.

 

T=0: Force Leap #1 - Concussion Charge

T = 15s: Force Leap #2 - Cryo Grenade

T = 30s: Force Leap #3 - Concussion Charge

T = 45s: Force Leap #4 - Concussive Round w/ Tech Override or Cybertech Seismic Grenade

T = 60s: Force Leap #5 - Concussion Charge

T = 75s: Force Leap #6 - Cryo Grenade

T = 90s: Force Leap #7 - Concussion Charge

 

and so on.

 

If you're in a 1v1 for even one third that long in a WZ, you're either derping around away from a node, in which case no one cares if you die, or one of the teams is REALLY bad at reacting to a call for help to defend.

 

show me 1 video of a commando surviving 90s against a marauder... DON'T WORRY I'LL WAIT.

[rob_y]

show me 1 video of a commando surviving 90s against a marauder... DON'T WORRY I'LL WAIT.

 

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I guess? Or did you miss the part where I said that a 1v1 like this shouldn't even go on for one third as long as this? I was just displaying the tools given to Commandos by Bioware to keep melee off (and went out as far as 90s to avoid people saying that they'd blow all of their cooldowns doing so).

 

So, keep working on that reading, champ, you'll get there yet.

[Slicktime]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I guess? Or did you miss the part where I said that a 1v1 like this shouldn't even go on for one third as long as this? I was just displaying the tools given to Commandos by Bioware to keep melee off (and went out as far as 90s to avoid people saying that they'd blow all of their cooldowns doing so).

 

So, keep working on that reading, champ, you'll get there yet.

 

it shouldn't but it does. i see marauders stop fighting other people just to come attack me. why? because commandos are easy kills because we are a turret. kitting is not an option because we cant do any damage kiting. i pug and i believe premades are a bunch of p*ss**s. it should always be pug vs pug and premade vs premade.

 

since you want to be a smart*****... where is that video showing a commando can survive 90 seconds against a marauder.... video or it cant happen.

[Raxxman]

I have a Mara, Op, and Merc... Here are the facts:

 

None are more OP then the other. Are maras designed to be better at 1 v 1, yes.

 

Lets compare the two. Marauders are fast, agile, med armor, pure DPS classes. Mercs are slow, clunky, heavy armor, DPS+utility classes.

 

Maras are squishy, but clock of pain/saber ward gives a good defense comparable with the shield/heavy armor combo of a merc. Maras get a 4 sec, 99% Damage redux cd that costs 50% of ur health...counter with 1 cc from the merc. Maras can do a lot of damage...wow, that's weird, I thought they were a pure DPS class.. Mercs can DPS from 30m while los the target. Uh oh, marauder charged me, should I let him face **** me, or maybe, i could knock back, slow/stun, gain ground, DPS or heal myself? C'mon, both can be awesome in pvp if the players know what they are doing. Both classes can reach the top of the DPS charts in pvp. IMO maras are better 1 v 1, Mercs are better support DPS/utility. L2P. And F U, opa gangnam style!

[Slicktime]

I have a Mara, Op, and Merc... Here are the facts:

 

None are more OP then the other. Are maras designed to be better at 1 v 1, yes.

 

Lets compare the two. Marauders are fast, agile, med armor, pure DPS classes. Mercs are slow, clunky, heavy armor, DPS+utility classes.

 

Maras are squishy, but clock of pain/saber ward gives a good defense comparable with the shield/heavy armor combo of a merc. Maras get a 4 sec, 99% Damage redux cd that costs 50% of ur health...counter with 1 cc from the merc. Maras can do a lot of damage...wow, that's weird, I thought they were a pure DPS class.. Mercs can DPS from 30m while los the target. Uh oh, marauder charged me, should I let him face **** me, or maybe, i could knock back, slow/stun, gain ground, DPS or heal myself? C'mon, both can be awesome in pvp if the players know what they are doing. Both classes can reach the top of the DPS charts in pvp. IMO maras are better 1 v 1, Mercs are better support DPS/utility. L2P. And F U, opa gangnam style!

 

so you are saying that a pure dps class when i am fully specced for dps, a marauder should be able to take me no matter what just because i have 2 heals that have cast times and don't heal for more than 1-2.5k and are easily interruptible? im suppose to stop what im doing while a marauder beats on me and use my spammable heal that does no more than 2.5k to try and replenish over 19k hp. seriously..... all marauders have to do is push a couple buttons and they pop off several 3k+ hits. you must be joking. lol

 

oh and what utility? i have a 1 bubble and 1 stun. again where is the utility?

Edited September 30, 2012 by Slicktime

[Hexdoll]

I have a Mara, Op, and Merc... Here are the facts:

 

None are more OP then the other. Are maras designed to be better at 1 v 1, yes.

 

Lets compare the two. Marauders are fast, agile, med armor, pure DPS classes. Mercs are slow, clunky, heavy armor, DPS+utility classes.

 

Maras are squishy, but clock of pain/saber ward gives a good defense comparable with the shield/heavy armor combo of a merc. Maras get a 4 sec, 99% Damage redux cd that costs 50% of ur health...counter with 1 cc from the merc. Maras can do a lot of damage...wow, that's weird, I thought they were a pure DPS class.. Mercs can DPS from 30m while los the target. Uh oh, marauder charged me, should I let him face **** me, or maybe, i could knock back, slow/stun, gain ground, DPS or heal myself? C'mon, both can be awesome in pvp if the players know what they are doing. Both classes can reach the top of the DPS charts in pvp. IMO maras are better 1 v 1, Mercs are better support DPS/utility. L2P. And F U, opa gangnam style!

 

How bout you look at the damage reduction on a Mercs heavy armor and a Mara med armor before you spout that nonsense they are the same...but Merc get one damage mitigating shield on a 2 min cd and that one shield is the only CD defence they get vs the one minute cd on cloak of pain plus saber ward on a 3 min....not to mention the other defensive CDs a mara gets......wow you must of never played a merc.

[Azrienov]

Yet our best defensive cool down just got nerfed by 1 second.

 

The horror... you're only unkillable for 4 seconds rather than 5? That was an insane nerf...

[Azrienov]

I have a Mara, Op, and Merc... Here are the facts:

 

None are more OP then the other. Are maras designed to be better at 1 v 1, yes.

 

Lets compare the two. Marauders are fast, agile, med armor, pure DPS classes. Mercs are slow, clunky, heavy armor, DPS+utility classes.

 

Maras are squishy, but clock of pain/saber ward gives a good defense comparable with the shield/heavy armor combo of a merc. Maras get a 4 sec, 99% Damage redux cd that costs 50% of ur health...counter with 1 cc from the merc. Maras can do a lot of damage...wow, that's weird, I thought they were a pure DPS class.. Mercs can DPS from 30m while los the target. Uh oh, marauder charged me, should I let him face **** me, or maybe, i could knock back, slow/stun, gain ground, DPS or heal myself? C'mon, both can be awesome in pvp if the players know what they are doing. Both classes can reach the top of the DPS charts in pvp. IMO maras are better 1 v 1, Mercs are better support DPS/utility. L2P. And F U, opa gangnam style!

 

Stream 4 hours straight unedited pvp film from your merc. You won't do it, because you'll be so sick of pvping with so many players with murderous gap closers it's not even funny.

[Slicktime]

The horror... you're only unkillable for 4 seconds rather than 5? That was an insane nerf...

 

his defense for that is it takes 50% of his health... hmmm when he has 1k health and its reduced to 500hp and attacks that normally do 2k+ are hitting for 10-15.... ya thats right 10-15 lol. oh the horror of sacrificing 50% of what little hp you had left.

[ArchangelLBC]

In response to a) - No commando or Sage should be left to solo guard anything ever. Their classes aren't designed for that. Leave that to a tank, or a stealth class, or maybe a gunslinger. Even Pugs usually know this and naturally a stealther or a tank volunteers to head to a side node.

 

In response to b) - My highest two alts are a 46 Commando and a 50 Guardian. So, while some people may know more about kiting than me, I at least have some experience with it from each side of the equation. I feel like people think it's hard to kite Knights/Warriors because they try to kite them only when they're already in melee range, but you have to start applying slows and strafing away (NOT backpedaling) when the fight is still in the 20-30m range, NOT when the Knight/Warrior is already on top of you. And stopping to cast? Don't be crazy. If you're kiting, you don't stop to cast. Of course, your DPS will be down, but do you know how much damage my Guardian does while at 11-30m? Barely any. He has a Saber Throw twice a minute which does about the damage your hammer shot does, and he can leap to you every 15 seconds. You know what you can do after those leaps? Concussion Charge or Cryo Grenade and then continue to kite.

 

Is it perfect? Of course not. But keep melee away from you in the first place, rather than try to get away from melee that's ALREADY on top of you (because then you're in range of their own snares). And anything with a cast bar should be saved for situations when you're not kiting someone. Don't expect 100% DPS rates 100% of the time (melee classes don't have this, either).

 

In response to c) - See my answer to A. And since you're staying with the larger group instead of trying to perform jobs your class isn't built for, like solo guarding, the dynamic is completely different. Maybe a melee does get on you. You can still kite like I mentioned above, but now you have the added dimension of being able to have a friend throw a slow or CC on the Knight (of course, you might also get slowed or CCed by someone else - this isn't a 1v1 game, after all). And if you really feel like Knights/Warriors are picking out DPS Commandos to focus down while simultaneously saying that DPS Commandos aren't providing useful damage, then that means that the Knights/Warriors are probably picking their targets wrong, because if your job isn't to be on a healer throwing interrupts, you should probably be with the rest of the team focusing down high priority targets (and if a Commando is a high priority target, then our work here is done, and they're in good shape).

 

In a group fight, it's unlikely to be a bunch of 1v1s, anyway, since focus-firing will happen. You know where ranged classes have a nice advantage over melee? Switching targets to focus fire. Ranged classes can easily switch to whomever the group is now newly targeting, or someone who's about to go down, or they can do things like CC the guy attacking them, then switch back to the group target. You know what melee classes can do? Attack the person right next to them, or use their 15 second cooldown leap to get to a new target (which means you're now on that target for a while, or someone nearby, even if you'd like to switch again).

 

So, if the whole warzone is a zerg fight and a Ranged and a Melee each do 400k damage, and are each played by similarly skilled players, a larger percent of the ranged character's 400k damage was probably directed at an efficient target from a group perspective.

 

I'll close with, again, are Knights and Commandos in perfect balance? Probably not. Commandos could use some love. But, don't try to play a ranged class as if it was a melee class and you might get some better results.

 

 

a) And that's why you should never bring a DPS commando ever. Probably not a sorc either if I'm honest though they're better at surviving than we are, since they CAN kite. A DPS you can't leave alone is a liability when there are so many that you CAN leave alone knowing that at least they won't go down in 4 GCDs to anyone who shows up and doesn't like them. Also you can't depend on PuGs not to leave you alone.

 

 

b) You're an idiot or you play against bads on your commando if you honestly think there's any real possibility of keeping melee at range. Apply slows at range? WHAT slows? We don't have any worthy of the name. The Assault one is RNG and 30% now. The Gunnery one depends on channeling an ability so is useless for the purposes of creating distance. Also there's the obvious fact that all melee can now close that distance regardless if they want to.

 

u guys mad?

 

Yes. Yes I am. Mostly at BW.

 

You have the tools to keep them off of you.

 

T=0: Force Leap #1 - Concussion Charge

T = 15s: Force Leap #2 - Cryo Grenade

T = 30s: Force Leap #3 - Concussion Charge

T = 45s: Force Leap #4 - Concussive Round w/ Tech Override or Cybertech Seismic Grenade

T = 60s: Force Leap #5 - Concussion Charge

T = 75s: Force Leap #6 - Cryo Grenade

T = 90s: Force Leap #7 - Concussion Charge

 

That's as nice a scenario as I've ever heard. Too bad it's also completely unrealistic.

 

First off what happens if they simply run up to you? The distances in a lot of situations aren't all that bad. Sents/Maras can blow their stealth early to run up to you without using leap. Operatives and Assassins can just stealth up to you saving their sprint. Jugs specced into Unstoppable just laugh at you as you use your knockback to no effect.

 

So lets go with the Mara since that is the class in question. Personally I'm not going to be so stupid to blow Concussion Charge here because I highly suspect a Ravage is incoming which I need to knockback. If I was gunnery I used to be able to use Stockstrike for this purpose but no longer. So if I'm very lucky they leapt to me and then immediately started a rotation leading to a Ravage so I can knock them back now before their leap is back up. If they're carnage spec they can root me immediately on the knockback for long enough to get back into melee range. If I use cryo now I won't get far enough away for it to matter and I've just used my only real counter for GBTF. Also keep in mind that if they leap to you you are rooted for 2-3 seconds so knocking back them won't give you enough seperation. Also Marauders have a baseline snare that matches the snare on my knockback. And God help me if they rolled up to me with full resolve.

 

Seriously I'll watch for the Ravage and knockback and watch for UR and cryo if their resolve isn't full, but otherwise my only real option in a zerg is to just ignore them in my face and help my team focus whatever target we're on and HOPE I'm going to get a peel. If this happens 1v1 I'm already dead.

 

You're using literally EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF UTILITY WE HAVE to counter force charge. This ignores the fact that sents have multiple gap closers, a baseline snare, and ways to counter knockback in all 3 specs (Annihilation can leap from any range and it's on a 12s cooldown, Carnage has a root on a 10m ranged ability, and Rage has a second leap with a 10m range), not to mention all the other things we have to worry about. I have to counter UR and Ravage as well, and I can't do either if I'm using Cryo and Concussion charge to attempt to create seperation.

 

Also there is the issue that most likely resolve was filled in this time in which case I'm REALLY in trouble when it comes to UR if I have anything left. If they can bait the concussion charge with a leap up it's going to be a very very bad day, and all they really need for that is Ravage.

[Xerain]

The horror... you're only unkillable for 4 seconds rather than 5? That was an insane nerf...

 

That's a 20% nerf...

 

 

 

And mercs have this thing called RANGED. Great Idea. Stop Playing Tracer Missile in pvp. You want to be a turret be a sniper.

[Metalmac]

Having played a marauder since beta I can say yes they did need to buff that tree slightly.

 

at release the only viable spec was anni

period

 

the other two were simply broken

 

1.2 fixed carnage and largely ignored the third

 

now the third is fixed.

 

next few patches marauders should largely be ignored by the devs and they will begin to focus on another class.

 

marauders are not unkillable, and in fact we can be rather easily countered if you pay attention.

stuns are our bane, we only have one breaker with a big cooldown so stun us, and kite us. stay at 15 m or so unless its an anni marauder. they have the short jump if it's specced.

 

This does not fix the GOD MODE and insane damage output at same time. Getting away from one is luck.

 

Let me put it another way, when 2 of any other class are on you then you live more then 2 seconds.

 

Does this explain the problem? Insane damage output with GOD MODE makes them very hard to counter.

[vimm]

The undying rage nerf was warranted.

[Xerain]

This does not fix the GOD MODE and insane damage output at same time. Getting away from one is luck.

 

Let me put it another way, when 2 of any other class are on you then you live more then 2 seconds.

 

Does this explain the problem? Insane damage output with GOD MODE makes them very hard to counter.

 

No you standing there spamming tracer missile makes it hard to counter.

[Hexdoll]

That's a 20% nerf...

 

 

 

And mercs have this thing called RANGED. Great Idea. Stop Playing Tracer Missile in pvp. You want to be a turret be a sniper.

 

20% less of an OP ability. the ability ensures no close fights for mara ......both at 30% guess who wins.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Hexdoll

[Xerain]

20% less of an OP ability. the ability ensures no close fights for mara ......both at 30% guess who wins.

 

30% is a close fight. It's execute range and 1 crit can take that 30% right away...