ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Let me spell it out for you... This is you saying that you are good enough to get by without dual-spec. Therefore, everyone else who requests dual-spec is below you, in the sense that they can't do what you can without this dev. subsidized assistance. I, unlike the epeen measuring bunch so vehemently protesting against dual-spec, have an education and a full-time job. Sometimes "the easy way" is convenient for people who have skill, know what they're doing, but can't commit the time and effort that Joe Poopsock can (i.e. Mr. I JUST ROLL A NEW CHAR LOLOLOL) I never said anything of the sort, otherwise you could quote the post where i said it? What you are doing is telling complete lies and making up what I said for some unknown purpose. Also I have a full time job a wife and family, I get to play maybe 3 hours every other night and I still reject the need to dual spec. Even though I get precious little time in game I still do not demand the ezmode that you do. Like I said its all about your definition of effort and enjoyment. I enjoy MMORPGs and have no issue putting the effort in - you want it all spoon fed from day 1. Go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I didnt want to go there but... why does ppl against it also got that "i am the best, you arent" attitude.... Its the same mentality that's against macros, UI mods, and addons. They apparently like tedium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethalphil Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Talent trees going away in wow has nothing to do with healers. talent tree in wow doesnt exist? ahaha i didnt know that... so why is everyone comparing this game to wow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyOtter Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) heya, maybe someone already answered this, but you DO get a full dps companion at some point in the game and as a healer u can let them have the aggro, while they kill stuff pretty fast imo. That sounds pretty good to me, to be honest, and they all have aoe abilities as well to hold aggro. Also, I'm a sith warrior lvl 38, My FIRST companion was a pure dps, i'm not sure how it is for others and i'm TANK spec, so i switch between a dps companion and a healer. I also have two tank companions....lol at them. i hope this helps. Edited December 20, 2011 by FunkyOtter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesthym Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Like I said its all about your definition of effort and enjoyment. I enjoy MMORPGs and have no issue putting the effort in - you want it all spoon fed from day 1. Your idea of fun isn't shared by the majority of humanity. Prepare to be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalarro Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Also, for those of you who want to see proof of an incoming dual spec feature: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). Nice. Was obvious tho. Edited December 20, 2011 by kalarro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagmonster Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I never said anything of the sort, otherwise you could quote the post where i said it? What you are doing is telling complete lies and making up what I said for some unknown purpose. Also I have a full time job a wife and family, I get to play maybe 3 hours every other night and I still reject the need to dual spec. Even though I get precious little time in game I still do not demand the ezmode that you do. Like I said its all about your definition of effort and enjoyment. I enjoy MMORPGs and have no issue putting the effort in - you want it all spoon fed from day 1. Go figure... Having an option for a second spec is not "ezmode". Having a second spec to meet the requirements for group play is not being "spoon fed". Your playing a MMO....with amazingly.....other people....holy....crap....I know its crazy right? I mean playing with OTHER people and wanting to meet the requirements to be able to PLAY with said people.....mean that's crazy talk. Wanting to be able to switch to (insert spec here) to play with a group. And having put in the extra effort to be a good at (insert spec here) while still being good at your main (insert spec here). Mean surely that's the very definition of spoon fed and ezmode right? Get real Edited December 20, 2011 by Lagmonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I enjoy MMORPGs and have no issue putting the effort in - you want it all spoon fed from day 1. Go figure... Deal with it. The vast majority of MMO players today are regular folks who want their MMOs to be fun ALL the time. Phrases like "Put the effort in" and "Work for" have no place in any video game. Any feature in a game that is work instead of fun needs to be trashed and replaced with something that is enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawkstar Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Most of you seem to forget that WoW, this holy grail everyone is comparing to, added many of these easier "features" to keep people interested in their game. The idea isn't to produce the easiest game on the planet for launch. Wait 5 years and maybe on your 20th toon, they'll make it easy for you. Anyone play EVERQUEST? Quit your griping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortak Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Dont flip flop the whole time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewnam Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I would think you're a troll, but maybe you're just an ex-SWG player. You might be stuck in a Orwellian paradigm where "fun" equals "not fun". Grinding 100+ hours of the story you've already played through is not fun. Not being able to respec because of prohibitive costs is not fun. Wake up and smell the rotten corpse of an MMO you have wasted years of your life on, and move on to a brighter world. Dual-spec is an easy way to keep the game fresh and entertaining, and you don't have to use it if you don't want to. You can't exactly use SWG as an insult against someone who is anti-respec. SWG basically paved the way for easily attainable respecs to be commonplace in MMOs. Before SWG, respecs were extremely hard to come by, but with the profession system that SWG introduced, many people enjoyed the idea of being able to change their character when they wanted to try something new or different. That being said, not every ex-SWG player is as you say. I truly enjoyed that game, but not for it's mechanics in a direct sense. Before the CU and NGE, the game was very social with many people just hanging out in cities, medcenters, and cantinas. I remember spending days and days as a smuggler just sitting at a table in the corner of the Theed cantina, watching and talking to the dancers and musicians. I never advertised who or what I was, and people just stopping in never knew me, but people that stayed local to Theed knew me and people would walk over and sit down and trade me a locked container which I would open and trade back. Or a weapon that they wanted upgraded. Some people wouldn't say anything and others would stick around for some idle chat. Word of my services always spread to anyone that stuck around Theed long enough. Eventually, my best customers and I decided to create an Imperial guild in the remote areas north/northwest of Theed and we had placed over 30 bases across the area before people elsewhere really started noticing our guild tags (Thrawn's Legionnaires). I had a second account that was a Rebel to get the vulnerability timers on Rebel bases so we knew when to attack and we led many raids and destroyed many Rebel facilities, all the while no one had a clue where our center of operations was located. Eventually it was discovered and wiped out because on our server, like most, the Rebels outnumbered the Imperials 5:1. However, as time wore on, the playerbase of the game shifted and the newer players just wanted to be out killing things all the time. Real people playing doctors and dancers started to be replaced with bot accounts that were macro'd to trigger services on whispers and tips. Player cities with their own facilities came out and then entire planetsides were a wasteland because where before everyone was concentrated in the few major cities (Theed, Mos Eisley, and Coronet), now everyone is spread out into the hundreds and hundreds of player cities. The shift of the playerbase and the focus on combat really caused the problems with the system to come to light. The HAM system had potential, but it was never fully realized. These problems drove the CU and NGE to be developed. In my opinion, it was the paradigm shift of the playerbase which ultimately led to the death of SWG, and not the CU or NGE directly. However, at a functional level, the game was no longer fun after the CU and NGE. So no, not everyone that played SWG remembers it through rose-colored glasses. I remember it exactly as it was and it was probably the best time I've ever had in any MMO. However, I enjoyed it for the social aspect and because the game's features really promoted that social aspect. Newer MMOs don't do this. Edited December 20, 2011 by Tewnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laikacosmo Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I never said anything of the sort, otherwise you could quote the post where i said it? What you are doing is telling complete lies and making up what I said for some unknown purpose. I quoted the undertones of your stance, don't need a fine-tooth comb to pick those out. Also I have a full time job a wife and family, I get to play maybe 3 hours every other night and I still reject the need to dual spec. Even though I get precious little time in game I still do not demand the ezmode that you do. I forgot that it was EZMODE to select viable builds for PvP and PvE. I should have known that I can only choose between one of them! Like I said its all about your definition of effort and enjoyment. I enjoy MMORPGs and have no issue putting the effort in - you want it all spoon fed from day 1. It's not about effort, it's about viability. You're whole argument is based around you're self-serving bias, which again brings us up to quote #1. Feel like we're going around in circles, here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmgl Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) The current respec is kinda silly. As a Merc it is pretty much impossible for me to heal the higher level Flashpoints without at least 18 points into the healing tree, but doing that triples my time to kill while solo.... I'm all for having to spec healer in order to heal but too much of this game is based around solo play to go full time heal spec with that large of a penalty to my ability to kill things. If some of the skills were shifted around it might be more manageable but we are so heavily reliant on Supercharged Gas, Empowered Scans, Critical Efficiency, and Surgical Precision System to heal through any sort of spike damage that running any flashpoints after 35 without them is suicide. In a matter of two days I've managed to get my respec cost up to 47k just from switching to level solo vs switching to heal instances for my friends. Now flashpoints are going to be ignored until 50 when I can respec healing fulltime without too much concern, or when credits are less of an issue. Edited December 20, 2011 by Lightmgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethalphil Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 he play up to 3hours session now and then, prefer rerolling than respec'ing And yet he think he represent the gaming community in 2011? AHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizazi Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Level 50 with 800,000, I see this as reasonable amount, balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesthym Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So no, not everyone that played SWG remembers it through rose-colored glasses. I remember it exactly as it was and it was probably the best time I've ever had in any MMO. However, I enjoyed it for the social aspect and because the game's features really promoted that social aspect. Newer MMOs don't do this. Thanks for your post. I played SWG in the time that you would queue up in front of a doctor and then head out to grind quenkers. Never again. What you're describing is more of a Star Wars-themed version of Second Life. I probably wouldn't enjoy that, because I like the cooperative combat of MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Seven Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Not.at.all. I just dont expect maximum reward for minimum effort. Its the constant pandering to this mentality that makes modern MMORPGs Fisher Price affairs that people get bored of within a year. Driz I agree, but you are arguing a point that has already been decided by BW. Like it or not, dual-spec will be added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alteswaldtroll Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The 'RPG' aspect of the time requires that one dedicate some time in planning and building their character. The ability to change it somewhat defies this, and, if allowed, should come at a high penalty, especially the more you utilize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesthym Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Most of you seem to forget that WoW, this holy grail everyone is comparing to, added many of these easier "features" to keep people interested in their game. The idea isn't to produce the easiest game on the planet for launch. Wait 5 years and maybe on your 20th toon, they'll make it easy for you. Anyone play EVERQUEST? Quit your griping. You're mistaken. Not enough players are going to be willing to wait five years. An MMO can be a huge cash cow, but you have to keep subcribers entertained. Dual-spec is an easy way to keep the game fresh and interesting. Edited December 20, 2011 by Aesthym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Its the same mentality that's against macros, UI mods, and addons. They apparently like tedium. Again your talking gernalised nonsense. I cant wait for macros, UI mods and addons to be implemented. I just disagree with easy respeccing, dual speccing and cross server LFD. Nice try though. Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewnam Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks for your post. I played SWG in the time that you would queue up in front of a doctor and then head out to grind quenkers. Never again. What you're describing is more of a Star Wars-themed version of Second Life. I probably wouldn't enjoy that, because I like the cooperative combat of MMOs. At the time of the game that I describe, there was very little PvE combat. The bit that existed was mostly there for the purposes of getting some credits to buy weapons and armor (from the incredibly intricate and awesome crafting system) and leveling skills. Most of the combat focus of the game was PvP-related and it was a lot of fun to make alliances with other Imperial guilds to coordinate massive raids of 100+ players on Rebel bases. These had to be well-timed and fairly secretive due to the overwhelming number of Rebels as I mentioned. There was certainly group combat in the game, just not the scripted PvE encounters that are commonplace in MMOs today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agree, but you are arguing a point that has already been decided by BW. Like it or not, dual-spec will be added. Thats cool fella I just respectfully disagree. I dont consider "it's something we would like to add..." to mean "it's definitely being added..." I consider it more like "it's something we would like to add subject to review and discussion at a developer level" Maybe it will be added, maybe it won't but without explicit clarification it's still to be decided imo Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethalphil Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) The 'RPG' aspect of the time requires that one dedicate some time in planning and building their character. The ability to change it somewhat defies this, and, if allowed, should come at a high penalty, especially the more you utilize it. there could be RP server for that i guess... RP server should make player unable to respec, we could then have those brainless-grinder have their masochism 1999s gameplay server and the rest of the world enjoy a modern MMO that works, bring profit to BW and provide what players want in 2011 That way it wont stop intelligent and life-active player to enjoy gaming and diversity as well as time left to enjoy their Real life as well... i dont need to immerse myself into a roleplay to enjoy my own life... i like fantasy, but to box myself into it is not my interest, if its how you see gaming then u got a problem if you dont agree i dont care because now i could say, go on RP server and stop arguing. Edited December 20, 2011 by lethalphil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_Tires Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I played a Shaman in World of Warcraft, during Wrath of the Lich King. I maintained the gear and knowledge to be able to effectively play both Enhancement (which was one of the hardest specs to play correctly back then, beat only by Feral), and Restoration. I was capable of being an excellent, and incredibly capable dps, and an excellent and incredibly capable healer. This made me a more valuable player, as I brought to the group two potential roles that I could fulfill excellently. I will be able to perform as an excellent dps, and an excellent tank when dual spec comes out on my assassin. This is going to be awesome because I am leveling with my two best buds, a power tech, and a juggernaut, who both look forward to tanking some content. Dual spec will allow all of us the option to tank, and to dps as we see fit, as well as garner experience for operation content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesthym Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I dont consider "it's something we would like to add..." to mean "it's definitely being added..." "Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch." http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 I don't see how you can read that as a 'maybe'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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