Healers (Imperial VS Republic)

[Naix]

I was curious how is PvP in other servers? Mainly 50 pvp and healer wise.

 

I'm on Ebon Hawk, Imperial side, and the last 10 games, and same thing last week before I decided to give up for a while... no healer or sometimes 1 on our side. Republic... 3 healers, 4 healers, 4 healers, 5 healers! 3 again, 4, 4 then I stopped counting.

 

I see the reason why it is that way tho... I mean, healer ====> support/helping class. Republic ====> more light sided people so more prospec healers. Imperial ====> People hungry for power so ====> DPS.

 

As a DPS I understand this is my job to kill them... and hell I'm getting good at it! Because that's all I do killing healers.. or trying... because all I can do is split my DPS on 2 or 3 healers healing each others. I know this is more than just me... but I wanted to see how it is on different servers.

[Xatasha]

Role yourself a healer and be loved by your side. The problem isn't the game but the players and what they want to play. There is nothing you can do about it either.....some players don't want to play healers

[Talimar]

My pubby guild was complaining on saturday about a group of 8 imp healers that kept rolling the wz. I don't know if it was true, but IMVP were on and steamrolling everyone (they're not all healers though).

[Naix]

I have an alt healer but he's not 50 yet so I can't really have a decent picture of 50 PvP as healer yet. I also know there's nothing to do unless they create queue roles but that won't happen.

 

As for steamrolling people... this is a give or take (as is that healers thing also...) sometimes you lose, sometimes you win.

 

I guess I needed to steam out a little..

[ebado]

If you're consistently losing normal warzones to teams with 3 or more healers, your team is not consistently playing well.

 

Teams loaded on healers simply cannot put out enough sustained damage to succeed on offense against a more balanced team. It's noticeable at 3 healers, though still workable, but by 4 healers, there's no excuse for losing to them. They should never be able to take an occupied node in Alderaan or Novarre or take down a door in Voidstar. At the start, they never should never be able to take the contested node in Alderaan or Novarre either, as they can not kill you fast enough to get time to cap unless your team has fallen asleep.

 

Huttball is a little different, but the same standard holds. They might be able to keep a ball carrier alive, but it forces pressure off the healers making them more vulnerable. At the end of the day. a more balanced team can control mid much easier than a healer heavy team.

 

Healer-heavy teams are certainly powerful in defensive situations but beatable by the same level of tactical awareness that beats equally skilled balanced teams.

 

edit: Also, it's kind of an MMO cliche to believe the other side always has more healers. Much like how in every game, there's always the people that insist the other faction is all children and the faction you are on is for mature adults.

Edited September 26, 2012 by ebado

[Lium]

Seeing as how Republic is mostly terrible at PvP anyway, I'd say it all balances out. No amount of healing in the world could mend all that fail.

[Draekos]

Role yourself a healer and be loved by your side. The problem isn't the game but the players and what they want to play. There is nothing you can do about it either.....some players don't want to play healers

 

I wish this was true, although there is a small( maybe 10% of the players) part of your side who will actually peel targets, guard, taunt, etc. Most people, not so much, on the bright side you can ignore all kinds of dps as they are a dime a dozen.

[Stenrik]

I HATE being on a team with 4 healers, 3 is often bad, too.

It's especially bad when all they care about are scoreboard numbers and just keep mindlessly healing everyone at the time when we're trying to take a door or node. If I'm heal spec on my scoundrel I switch to doing as much dps as I can at these times, but it still isn't enough.

(And yet the "top healers" STILL get MVP votes at the end of these matches, despite being a total liability to their team. )

 

Anyway, on my NON-RP server, there doesn't seem to be a difference between imp and rep amounts of healers. Haven't played long enough after the merge to judge Pot5. But point is maybe this kind of difference only exists on roleplay servers.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Stenrik

[Durasturan]

If you're consistently losing normal warzones to teams with 3 or more healers, your team is not consistently playing well.

 

Teams loaded on healers simply cannot put out enough sustained damage to succeed on offense against a more balanced team. It's noticeable at 3 healers, though still workable, but by 4 healers, there's no excuse for losing to them. They should never be able to take an occupied node in Alderaan or Novarre or take down a door in Voidstar. At the start, they never should never be able to take the contested node in Alderaan or Novarre either, as they can not kill you fast enough to get time to cap unless your team has fallen asleep.

 

Huttball is a little different, but the same standard holds. They might be able to keep a ball carrier alive, but it forces pressure off the healers making them more vulnerable. At the end of the day. a more balanced team can control mid much easier than a healer heavy team.

 

Healer-heavy teams are certainly powerful in defensive situations but beatable by the same level of tactical awareness that beats equally skilled balanced teams.

 

edit: Also, it's kind of an MMO cliche to believe the other side always has more healers. Much like how in every game, there's always the people that insist the other faction is all children and the faction you are on is for mature adults.

 

3 HPS - 5 DPS is significantly better than 1 HPS and 7 DPS for the simple reason that healers can support each other. If their dps jump on one of your healers the other healers can keep them alive while dps burn down the enemy healer and then turn on the dps. Ideally I think you'd want 2 HPS - 1 tank - 5 DPS. But I'd take 3 healers over just 1 any day of the week.

 

three healers also means you can leave healer-tank combo on a node to guard it and it's going to take at least 4 enemies to burn them down. And that gives you two heals and four dps to attack another node or defend the enemy's primary target.

 

Three heals is good, four is too much, but 1 is definitely too few.

[ebado]

3 HPS - 5 DPS is significantly better than 1 HPS and 7 DPS for the simple reason that healers can support each other. If their dps jump on one of your healers the other healers can keep them alive while dps burn down the enemy healer and then turn on the dps. Ideally I think you'd want 2 HPS - 1 tank - 5 DPS. But I'd take 3 healers over just 1 any day of the week.

 

three healers also means you can leave healer-tank combo on a node to guard it and it's going to take at least 4 enemies to burn them down. And that gives you two heals and four dps to attack another node or defend the enemy's primary target.

 

Three heals is good, four is too much, but 1 is definitely too few.

 

People talk about crosshealing like it's unbeatable. It's easily negated with DPS and tactics, like any other strategy. Pull one of the healers away, neutralize it, take care of the other two.

 

Crosshealing is coordination. DPS heavy teams are capable of coordination, as well.

Edited September 26, 2012 by ebado

[DarthSabreth]

I have a Op healer on Ebon Hawk and dusted my toon off today being that it was thankfully xfered by BW. It is my main and i always roll support classes. I enjoy healing for two reasons.

1. it helps the team / teammates stay alive long enough to achieve goals.

2. I love looking at how fustrated a player gets when i sneek heals onto a player that they are trying to kill.

[TMar]

If you're consistently losing normal warzones to teams with 3 or more healers, your team is not consistently playing well.

 

Teams loaded on healers simply cannot put out enough sustained damage to succeed on offense against a more balanced team. It's noticeable at 3 healers, though still workable, but by 4 healers, there's no excuse for losing to them. They should never be able to take an occupied node in Alderaan or Novarre or take down a door in Voidstar. At the start, they never should never be able to take the contested node in Alderaan or Novarre either, as they can not kill you fast enough to get time to cap unless your team has fallen asleep.

 

Huttball is a little different, but the same standard holds. They might be able to keep a ball carrier alive, but it forces pressure off the healers making them more vulnerable. At the end of the day. a more balanced team can control mid much easier than a healer heavy team.

 

Healer-heavy teams are certainly powerful in defensive situations but beatable by the same level of tactical awareness that beats equally skilled balanced teams.

 

edit: Also, it's kind of an MMO cliche to believe the other side always has more healers. Much like how in every game, there's always the people that insist the other faction is all children and the faction you are on is for mature adults.

 

So a team with 4 healers can't take a node in Novarre against a team with none or one? Split the heals between two nodes and it doesn't matter if you have less DPS. The healing teams DPS isn't going to die and will whittle down all defense with no heals. DPSer's aren't DPSing if they are dead.

 

On Alderaan If you have control there is no way you should lose a node if you can keep people up. It's too easy to keep people off the node and as long as you can keep even a couple of people up you can keep the node. Taking a node could be a problem but with good enough heals you can keep one node extra weak and call for backup.

[ebado]

So a team with 4 healers can't take a node in Novarre against a team with none or one? Split the heals between two nodes and it doesn't matter if you have less DPS. The healing teams DPS isn't going to die and will whittle down all defense with no heals. DPSer's aren't DPSing if they are dead.

 

On Alderaan If you have control there is no way you should lose a node if you can keep people up. It's too easy to keep people off the node and as long as you can keep even a couple of people up you can keep the node. Taking a node could be a problem but with good enough heals you can keep one node extra weak and call for backup.

 

With equal amounts of coordination, a team full of DPSers has options and tactics available to them to tip all the warzones in their favor.

 

Failing to use them is the problem.

Edited September 26, 2012 by ebado

[oakamp]

Role yourself a healer and be loved by your side. The problem isn't the game but the players and what they want to play. There is nothing you can do about it either.....some players don't want to play healers

^^true answer,

our server 50 pvp has no healer either,

i play on both side,

pub always has healers,

and my toons always win in pub side,

cause imp side ppl always lack of healer and full of quitter.

[TMar]

With equal amounts of coordination, a team full of DPSers has options and tactics available to them to tip all the warzones in their favor.

 

Failing to use them is the problem.

 

Like what? If you assume equal coordination you have to assume it on both teams. They all have the same basic tools available to them. You can have all the DPS in the world but if you spend half the game waiting to rez then it's worthless.

 

I've had several dozens times where a ball wouldn't have made it over line if it wasn't for a last second heal I threw. If I was DPSing then I wouldn't have been able to tip the warzone in our favor.

[ebado]

I've had several dozens times where a ball wouldn't have made it over line if it wasn't for a last second heal I threw. If I was DPSing then I wouldn't have been able to tip the warzone in our favor.

 

Whether you be able to throw that last second heal in there as a DPS would depend on your advanced class, as many specs have access to active friendly healing and others passive friendly healing. More also have access to guards and taunts, which are also helpful in a situation like that.

 

Like what? If you assume equal coordination you have to assume it on both teams.

Well of course, what did you think it meant? I apologize if you did not understand the intent of my words, though I did find them quite clear.

 

It would depend on your specific DPS specs within the group, but their are plenty of abilities spread around to allow you to remove (literally) a healer from the field of battle and remove (as in temporary disable) a healer in the field of battle. There are a lot of abilities at your disposal. Most of them are useful.

 

As far as tactics, anything to keep the other team on their toes and force a mistake (how most normal warzones are won. Feints, hard switches etc. Basic PvP tactics.

 

They all have the same basic tools available to them. You can have all the DPS in the world but if you spend half the game waiting to rez then it's worthless.

 

If this is consistently happening to you against a healer heavy team, then I recommend you change your strategy, as it isn't necessary or likely.

[TMar]

Whether you be able to throw that last second heal in there as a DPS would depend on your advanced class, as many specs have access to active friendly healing and others passive friendly healing. More also have access to guards and taunts, which are also helpful in a situation like that.

 

Damage reduction is better than healing? If some one has 200 health left it's better to guard them than to heal?

 

Well of course, what did you think it meant? I apologize if you did not understand the intent of my words, though I did find them quite clear.

 

It would depend on your specific DPS specs within the group, but their are plenty of abilities spread around to allow you to remove (literally) a healer from the field of battle and remove (as in temporary disable) a healer in the field of battle. There are a lot of abilities at your disposal. Most of them are useful.

 

And there are a lot of way you can remove DPS from the battle field as well.

 

As far as tactics, anything to keep the other team on their toes and force a mistake (how most normal warzones are won. Feints, hard switches etc. Basic PvP tactics.

 

 

 

If this is consistently happening to you against a healer heavy team, then I recommend you change your strategy, as it isn't necessary or likely.

 

All things equal a team with heals has higher sustained DPS than a team without because their DPS spends more time doing damage.

[ebado]

Damage reduction is better than healing? If some one has 200 health left it's better to guard them than to heal?

I don't recall saying this, but if I did feel free to quote me.

Well of course, what did you think it meant? I apologize if you did not understand the intent of my words, though I did find them quite clear.

 

And there are a lot of way you can remove DPS from the battle field as well.

Of course. Should it be different?

 

All things equal a team with heals has higher sustained DPS than a team without because their DPS spends more time doing damage.

That's only true with a healer heavy team if you let them.

[limenutpen]

Yes 3 is max numbers of healers possible and even that is usually not good.

 

I think 4 healers plus is a big fail. You need 2 healers, 6 DD and 1 or 2 tank preferably 1 being Hybrid or a Shadow/Assasin (this class usually can do quite good damage even in full tank spec).

 

I am healer myself and you can smell a loss when there is 3 healers or more, although Sages or Inquisitor can still do some decent damage even if full healer spec.

My record is like 170k damage with 400k heals with full 32 Seer spec Sage.

Edited September 26, 2012 by limenutpen

[Kalfear]

I was curious how is PvP in other servers? Mainly 50 pvp and healer wise.

 

I'm on Ebon Hawk, Imperial side, and the last 10 games, and same thing last week before I decided to give up for a while... no healer or sometimes 1 on our side. Republic... 3 healers, 4 healers, 4 healers, 5 healers! 3 again, 4, 4 then I stopped counting.

 

I see the reason why it is that way tho... I mean, healer ====> support/helping class. Republic ====> more light sided people so more prospec healers. Imperial ====> People hungry for power so ====> DPS.

 

As a DPS I understand this is my job to kill them... and hell I'm getting good at it! Because that's all I do killing healers.. or trying... because all I can do is split my DPS on 2 or 3 healers healing each others. I know this is more than just me... but I wanted to see how it is on different servers.

 

Yeah that theory doesnt really work on Harbringer!

 

Outside of Pre Mades healers are a rare sight for the solo quo WZs

Imps seem to always have 2 or 3 going but reps rarely have 1

 

I can tell you why though from my personal findings

 

I have a fully heal specd sage in mostly war hero and I shelved the character as PVP just wasnt any fun on rep side for healers. Imps would charge through 4-5-6-7 reps to get at me and reps all just stepped aside and let the imps feast away.

Conversely you target a imp healer and you suddenly have 2-3-4 imps bashing you down!

 

Rep on my server in PUG PVP doesnt protect their healers and most healers have found a pre made to run with only or have rerolled DPS characters as a result of this.

 

The imp = power hungry theory doesnt really work on Harbringer as imps have healers aplenty and treat their healers right.

 

I mean if a healer is running around the whole fight trying to get someone off him/her, guess what activity they not doing! Thats right healing others.

[DrewFromPhilly]

Meh. I have a 50 operative healer but rarely ever pvp with it any more - it got too boring and repetitive for me.

[TMar]

I don't recall saying this, but if I did feel free to quote me.

Well of course, what did you think it meant? I apologize if you did not understand the intent of my words, though I did find them quite clear.

 

 

Of course. Should it be different?

 

 

That's only true with a healer heavy team if you let them.

 

Whether you be able to throw that last second heal in there as a DPS would depend on your advanced class, as many specs have access to active friendly healing and others passive friendly healing. More also have access to guards and taunts, which are also helpful in a situation like that.

 

 

That's where you said it in reply to a last second heal that got the ball over the line. From my post

 

I've had several dozens times where a ball wouldn't have made it over line if it wasn't for a last second heal I threw. If I was DPSing then I wouldn't have been able to tip the warzone in our favor.

 

Last second heal just got them over the line so we can see from that that the ball carrier was low on health. So no a guard or taunt wouldn't have been better in that situation.

 

Again you say "if you let them". You shut down my heals and my team will shut down an equal amount of your DPS. You're not again any ground while you have me locked down and my team will back to 100's% when ever I get lose. Not to mention you're talking about "healer heavy teams" which means you have to lock down two/three people. While you can harass one person until they make a mistake the more you have to harass the more spread out your "literally take them out of the battle field" abilities are spread.

[ebado]

Last second heal just got them over the line so we can see from that that the ball carrier was low on health. So no a guard or taunt wouldn't have been better in that situation.

 

I did not say better. I said useful. These words are different, and they have different meanings in most variations of English, as far as I am aware.

 

Again you say "if you let them". You shut down my heals and my team will shut down an equal amount of your DPS. You're not again any ground while you have me locked down and my team will back to 100's% when ever I get lose. Not to mention you're talking about "healer heavy teams" which means you have to lock down two/three people. While you can harass one person until they make a mistake the more you have to harass the more spread out your "literally take them out of the battle field" abilities are spread.

This seems to be a complaint that when two equal skilled teams fight each other, it;s a stalemate.

[TMar]

I did not say better. I said useful. These words are different, and they have different meanings in most variations of English, as far as I am aware.

 

 

This seems to be a complaint that when two equal skilled teams fight each other, it;s a stalemate.

 

And yet still wrong. So it's not "better" it's "also useful" to throw a guard on a low health player that couldn't make it a meter without dying. Semantics are cool.

[ebado]

And yet still wrong. So it's not "better" it's "also useful" to throw a guard on a low health player that couldn't make it a meter without dying. Semantics are cool.

 

Damage mitigation isn't useful?