I thought no LFG dungeon finder at launch was a good idea.

[Kabloosh]

It's amazing how much crap the Random Dungeon Finder takes, only to be missed so when one plays a game other than That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named.

 

On a more serious note, it's taken That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named seven years to achieve the amenities we take for granted, and TOR hasn't even launched yet. Give it time: I am sure Bioware is quite aware of the benefits an RDF-like matchmaking service would provide to its players. One bit of That Other MMO's functionality at a time, though: Support for macros and UI modding, I think, are more badly needed priority.

 

People forget that those conveniences are what turned WoW into the juggernaut it is today.

[Wapner]

Maybe they do, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the dungeon finder. In fact, last time I played WoW the dungeon finder *freed* me from hanging around the city. You queued up and went off and played. As soon as a group popped you were in and then back out to questing.

 

I think most of the city campers are doing 1 of two things:

 

1) Selling items or services

2) trying to for a group for a raid which doesn't have a matching system.

 

I haven't played it in a long while but I don't recall leveling characters sitting in a city queueing up.

 

 

For the record: I support a RDF tool, as long as it's not cross-server.

 

With that said, you are wrong. In WoW the people camping in cities are the majority. Blizzard openly admits this and one of the goals they have set for MoP is to get people out of cities. The fact that that is even mentioned as a goal, tells me it's a problem.

 

The last 2 characters that I leveled to cap in WoW quested to 15 (the level upon which you gain access to the RDF), and then stayed in the city all the way to 85. I think this is pretty common -- Granted it's by choice. But, so many people make this choice, that it's boring to be in the open world. You can do a "/who <insert any random non-city zone>" and get 5-10 people max. Even in the new Cataclysm zones.

 

I will also admit that RDF is not the soul cause for this, but only a contributing factor in a fairly long list of flaws with the open world, right now.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Wapner

[DeadManINC]

Yea they do need to do something, I will never seen the flashpoints while leveling because I am on a different planet questing, such a dam shame they seem like they would be fun.

[Caelrie]

Before EA, I agreed with the decision to not include a dungeon finder at launch for pretty much the reasons they gave: It's not necessary at release.

 

Of course, I didn't realize that all the flashpoints would be out of a single area.

It's amazing how many people commented on game mechanics as though they were experts, without even having played the game yet.

 

Glad you saw the light once you got some actual experience. I suspect a whole lot of the anti crowd will become supporters once they actually play the game for a while.

 

You can spot the people who are talking out of their @#$'s and haven't played the game when they say stuff like "but LFD tools just make people sit in cities!" They haven't played SWTOR, so they don't understand why that's an irrelevant argument. Another of my favorites is "LFD makes people stop exploring to find instance portals so it's bad!"

Edited December 19, 2011 by Caelrie

[loudent]

It's amazing how many people commented on game mechanics as though they were experts, without even having played the game yet.

 

Glad you saw the light once you got some actual experience.

 

Just to clarify, I never actually commented before, just saying I had the same opinion.

[carnac_fett]

A Dungeon Finder feature doesn't have to be cross-server, nor does it have to give you easymode teleportation right into the flashpoint.

 

It'd just be nice to have a queue you can put yourself in so you can go off and do other stuff. As it stands, you need to sit around spamming general chat until you can scrape together three other people to do a flashpoint.

[Eegorr]

yes, so what ppl do now is spam LFG while STILL SITTING IN CITIES! don't you get it? not having a lfg tool doesn't make ppl more social or want to leave cities... it just adds unnecessary spam!

 

It's a matter of what is the lesser of two evils here. I played WoW long before they added that awful matching system, and I had few problems with it. People accepted that it took a while before you could reach an instance if you were out questing, and two people usually headed to a summoning stone (once those were available). The worst part with the dungeon finder is that too many people take absolutely no responsibility for their game -- anonymity + internet + generally decent person = total ****wad. In good old vanilla days these people wound up on my ignore-list, but now the social aspect of the game is completely gone, and is one of the main reasons I left.

 

Yes, spam in general chat can be a bit annoying, but I 'much' prefer that to a lfg-tool in the shape that WoW has now. Perhaps some hybrid between the two can be found.

[Wapner]

A Dungeon Finder feature doesn't have to be cross-server, nor does it have to give you easymode teleportation right into the flashpoint.

 

It'd just be nice to have a queue you can put yourself in so you can go off and do other stuff. As it stands, you need to sit around spamming general chat until you can scrape together three other people to do a flashpoint.

 

 

Yes. I agree completely. I fully support an RDF tool that assists in the process of building a group, but not necessarily traveling to the dungeon. I also do not want it to be cross-server.

[Juumanistra]

People forget that those conveniences are what turned WoW into the juggernaut it is today.

 

Truth!

 

Though what's funniest about the Random Dungeon Finder in-particular is that I always thought that those who lamented its coming to That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named were motivated in no small part by gauzy-eyed nostalgia for the bygone era of their gaming youths. In the case of those who don't want it in TOR, though...is it possible to have gauzy-eyed nostalgia for a game that doesn't launch until tomorrow?

[Caelrie]

Truth!

 

Though what's funniest about the Random Dungeon Finder in-particular is that I always thought that those who lamented its coming to That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named were motivated in no small part by gauzy-eyed nostalgia for the bygone era of their gaming youths. In the case of those who don't want it in TOR, though...is it possible to have gauzy-eyed nostalgia for a game that doesn't launch until tomorrow?

 

The sheer amount of nostalgia in the SWTOR community annoys the hell out of me too.

[Wapner]

Truth!

 

Though what's funniest about the Random Dungeon Finder in-particular is that I always thought that those who lamented its coming to That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named were motivated in no small part by gauzy-eyed nostalgia for the bygone era of their gaming youths. In the case of those who don't want it in TOR, though...is it possible to have gauzy-eyed nostalgia for a game that doesn't launch until tomorrow?

 

Or it could be that they are genuinely worried that it will have a negative impact on the game? For it's improvements LFD had a pretty large negative impact on the game -- That being the fact that ninjaing loot and being a general jerk in groups has no consequences. Before LFD if you did that stuff, you were pretty quickly ridiculed and had issues finding groups. The community policed itself.

 

That's not the case anymore. LFD takes the self-policing ability away.

[Caelrie]

Or it could be that they are genuinely worried that it will have a negative impact on the game? For it's improvements LFD had a pretty large negative impact on the game -- That being the fact that ninjaing loot and being a general jerk in groups has no consequences. Before LFD if you did that stuff, you were pretty quickly ridiculed and had issues finding groups. The community policed itself.

 

That's not the case anymore. LFD takes the self-policing ability away.

 

This argument is irrelevant since NOBODY is demanding a cross-server LFD tool. The system already exists in SWTOR anyway. You use it for PvP warzones. We just want THAT ported over to flashpoints.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Caelrie

[Wapner]

This argument is irrelevant since NOBODY is demanding a cross-server LFD tool.

 

It wasn't an argument...it was a statement of what actually happened in WoW. I did not say it was going to happen in SWTOR, nor did I use it as an argument against putting LFD into SWTOR. In fact, if you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I support LFD in SWTOR.

 

I was simply stating that I can see why some people are worried. There are valid reasons.

 

Also: Even same-server LFD gives you little control over who you group with. You could still be placed in a group with someone you don't like, or someone that you know stole loot from you, etc. Your choices would then be to leave and take whatever punishment is involved in that, or stick around and risk being subjected to whatever ******tery that person decide to pull.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Wapner

[loudent]

. Before LFD if you did that stuff, you were pretty quickly ridiculed and had issues finding groups. The community policed itself.

 

that is the single biggest fallacy regarding this discussions and it speaks to the arrogance of the human condition.

 

I had my personal ignore list and a few that guildies recomended but I had 0 knowledge of other peoples ignore list. There was never a server wide blacklist and I never refused to invite someone because they had a ninja loot reputation.

 

You had your list and maybe shared one with friends or guildies but no one else cared or knew about it. There was never any community self policing.

 

However, If there were, then what difference would it make? I'm assuming you wouldn't get matched with your ignored list and you always have the option to boot those on your "don't group with list" what difference if the group assembly is computer aided or not?

[Caelrie]

It wasn't an argument...it was a statement of what actually happened in WoW. I did not say it was going to happen in SWTOR, nor did I use it as an argument against putting LFD into SWTOR. In fact, if you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I support LFD in SWTOR.

 

I was simply stating that I can see why some people are worried. There are valid reasons.

 

But you said they were "genuinely worried", when in fact their worries aren't genuine at all and you shouldn't give them credence by saying they are. The SWTOR devs don't want anything cross-server.

[Jnight]

I hope this game NEVER has a RDF type tool. IMO, it ruined a certain MMO's community. Most people just sit in cities now.

You had to sit in city spamming chat to find groups before it. It wasn't the finder that was the problem.

 

It was instant teleport and cross-server anonymity that was bad.

[Wapner]

that is the single biggest fallacy regarding this discussions and it speaks to the arrogance of the human condition.

 

I had my personal ignore list and a few that guildies recomended but I had 0 knowledge of other peoples ignore list. There was never a server wide blacklist and I never refused to invite someone because they had a ninja loot reputation.

 

You had your list and maybe shared one with friends or guildies but no one else cared or knew about it. There was never any community self policing.

 

However, If there were, then what difference would it make? I'm assuming you wouldn't get matched with your ignored list and you always have the option to boot those on your "don't group with list" what difference if the group assembly is computer aided or not?

 

My realm maintained a post on the forums of confirmed (via screenshot or video) ninjas and general d-bags. It was even stickied by a CM. It was also widely discussed in the general chat channels, and guild chat.

[Caelrie]

that is the single biggest fallacy regarding this discussions and it speaks to the arrogance of the human condition.

Agreed. Only people who did something truly heinous like ninja a legendary item component ever got really blacklisted, and even then they were still able to find groups with other people.

 

If someone ninjaed something in your little 5-man? Nobody but your friends cared. And even if there were a forum thread about it, less than 10% of the playerbase reads the forums anyway.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Caelrie

[Rhonen]

For the record: I support a RDF tool, as long as it's not cross-server.

 

With that said, you are wrong. In WoW the people camping in cities are the majority. Blizzard openly admits this and one of the goals they have set for MoP is to get people out of cities. The fact that that is even mentioned as a goal, tells me it's a problem.

 

The last 2 characters that I leveled to cap in WoW quested to 15 (the level upon which you gain access to the RDF), and then stayed in the city all the way to 85. I think this is pretty common -- Granted it's by choice. But, so many people make this choice, that it's boring to be in the open world. You can do a "/who <insert any random non-city zone>" and get 5-10 people max. Even in the new Cataclysm zones.

 

I will also admit that RDF is not the soul cause for this, but only a contributing factor in a fairly long list of flaws with the open world, right now.

 

The reason people are camping particular cities have nothing to do with LFD - it's because that's where the portals are for the expansions new areas. It's the quest/activity hub of that expansion. In BC, it was Shat (before LFD). In WoTLK, it was Dal.

 

I love the LFD tool because it lets me go out of the city and quest, farm, or do achievements instead of sitting in the city spamming chat. And when I level an alt, I go out and do the quests. The Cata quests are FAR, FAR, more fun than sitting in a city running dungeons. One only does that to speed level. If one wants to have fun, why purposefully make it boring when the expansion delivered entirely new 1-60 quest hubs?

[Jnight]

My realm maintained a post on the forums of confirmed (via screenshot or video) ninjas and general d-bags. It was even stickied by a CM. It was also widely discussed in the general chat channels, and guild chat.

Yep, realm forums go a long way to helping weed the d-bags out.

 

Also in general most people have a second though about doing something bad when there is the chance of repercussions. Cross server completely removed that.

[Mandrax]

Are you using the LFG option in the who function?

 

Few people know that's even there. They need to make a completely separate tool rather than lumping it in with the 'who'. I'm not saying a dungeon finder, I mean a proper LFG tool where you can flag yourself for certain roles/flashpoints/heroic quests etc. The current tool isn't very good at all, and as I said, many people have never found it.

[Vessell]

Fork the community... I just want to run some instances. Lack of some kind of grouping feature is a serious flaw in this game.

 

I'm not sure what kind of nostalgia leads people to believe that spamming the general chat for a group is a positive and fulfilling experience.

[MainMan]

Social Window, use it.

 

http://www.swtor.com/gamemanual/how-to-play/social-window

 

Have a nice day.

[Mandrax]

My realm maintained a post on the forums of confirmed (via screenshot or video) ninjas and general d-bags. It was even stickied by a CM. It was also widely discussed in the general chat channels, and guild chat.

 

In what game?

[Kharik]

I hope this game NEVER has a RDF type tool. IMO, it ruined a certain MMO's community. Most people just sit in cities now.

 

this doesn't even make sense. currently your best bet to get into your flashpoint is to SIT in the SINGLE ZONE THAT HANDLES ALL FLASHPOINT DEPARTURES and spam lfg. If there was a RDF system you could actually be out and exploring the game, playing the game! while you wait for your flashpoint of choice.

 

Think for a minute before you open your mouth.