8 man wz

[sirullrich]

Last night I played a Hutt Ball match. I solo que, but once the game started we played a team with two premades. Both premades were from the same guild. We lost in a 1-1 game, but *** BW THERE SHOULD NEVER BE an 8 man wz team in normals. Has this ever happened to anybody else?

[Pistols]

They got lucky with two 4 man groups queue'ing up. This has always been a possibility.

 

Working as intended.

[criminalheretic]

Last night I played a Hutt Ball match. I solo que, but once the game started we played a team with two premades. Both premades were from the same guild. We lost in a 1-1 game, but *** BW THERE SHOULD NEVER BE an 8 man wz team in normals. Has this ever happened to anybody else?

 

Yeah if two 4 man teams count down and queue for WZs at exactly the same time, there is a very good chance they will be put together in a WZ. There's no surefire way to do it, but it is not hard.

 

Fair? Probably not. While I admit I have done it, I have to also admit that every time we three cap and win Civil War 600-0, instead of "Wow, we are so awesome!", what I am really thinking is "Ok, there's 8 people who won't be queuing up again tonight." Maybe I am a Carebear, and a hypocrite, but I don't condone it.

[Veniras]

what I am really thinking is "Ok, there's 8 people who won't be queuing up again tonight." Maybe I am a Carebear, and a hypocrite, but I don't condone it.

 

Which is exactly what I stop doing when the premades start rolling the PUGS. Hopefully it affects the queues

[Pistols]

Which is exactly what I stop doing when the premades start rolling the PUGS. Hopefully it affects the queues

 

Pre-made team =/= auto rolling PUG's. I've solo que'd thousands of times and have beaten pre-made teams with PUG's.

 

Working as intended.

[UGLYMRJ]

I do the same thing... Queue at the same time and cross fingers. It helps with the w/l record. Sometimes we end up on the same team, some times opposite teams, sometimes different matches completely.

 

Don't see the problem or the point....

Edited September 18, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[sirullrich]

If you wanted to play with an 8 man team just play ranked. Does it really feel good to smash 8 pugs with crap gear. All I read on these forums is PVP is dying, but aren't you folks who try to play 8 man normals also a reason why PVP is dying?

[Pistols]

If you wanted to play with an 8 man team just play ranked. Does it really feel good to smash 8 pugs with crap gear. All I read on these forums is PVP is dying, but aren't you folks who try to play 8 man normals also a reason why PVP is dying?

 

As I said earlier, two 4 man groups =/= Auto-win in regulars or ranked.

 

Sorry, but this game allows for 4 man teams to queue for regular WZ's, if another 4 man guild gets matched up (whether another guild or the same), it is working as intended. My suggestion to you, would ask your guild mates to group up, spam in Fleet for a group, or just leave a WZ if you feel this is unfair. /shrug

[Squidkidz]

If you wanted to play with an 8 man team just play ranked. Does it really feel good to smash 8 pugs with crap gear. All I read on these forums is PVP is dying, but aren't you folks who try to play 8 man normals also a reason why PVP is dying?

 

PvP is not dying when it comes to regular warzones, when people say pvp is dying they are referring to ranked warzones so your argument there is irrelevant. If two pre-mades are queue'ing up for regular warzones they might get stuck together against you that's just the way it works. Who's to say a bunch of war hero geared players aren't going to solo queue or queue with 1-2 of their friends and get matched up with some other geared players? If you're undergeared you're just going to have to deal with it, life isn't fair, wear a helmet.

[Veniras]

Pre-made team =/= auto rolling PUG's. I've solo que'd thousands of times and have beaten pre-made teams with PUG's.

 

How big of your percentage is PUGS beating premades?

 

In a good PUG I've also beaten premades, but that is DEFINATELY the exception to the rule. All other things being equal, premades own PUGS.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Veniras

[sirullrich]

I don't want to argue. I am not blaming the groups for doing it and also I am not saying its the guilds fault for doing it becuase bioware allows it to happen. What I am saying is that there is 16 players that are in a wz and of those 16 there are two premade groups, a tandem, and 6 pugs. I just feel before wz starts the two premades should get split up. Instead of spots getting filled as players que for wz. I am not bad at this game and win more wz than I lose. I am a part of a good guild that play regularly. I just want to play wz where it is somewhat competitive most of the time and so the new people who want to try PVP get a fair shake at it too. It would really help PVP imo.

[Pistols]

How big of your percentage is PUGS beating premades?

 

In a good PUG I've also beaten premades, but that is DEFINATELY the exception to the rule. All other things being equal, premades own PUGS.

 

I couldn't even give a number. My point is, I've been in games where 6-8 peeps PUG's who know how to play have beaten teams that are group friendly. Grouping up simply does NOT mean you will win mostof the time, and tbh, it's fun to group up and play against other groups. If you dislike seeing groups in WZ's, which has been possible since launch, I suggest finding some friends. My friends list is quite big, and I add peeps all the time who are looking for groups for PvP. It's not hard at all.

[Veniras]

Grouping up simply does NOT mean you will win mostof the time, and tbh, it's fun to group up and play against other groups.

 

I disagree somewhat on the first part. Grouping up gives you an edge over ungrouped teams. My point is that premades vs PUGs is an issue that Bioware needs to address if they dont want PUGGERS/Casuals/Soloers/Loners/Odd time players to stop queing due to being roflstomped by groups.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Veniras

[Kuvox]

I couldn't even give a number. My point is, I've been in games where 6-8 peeps PUG's who know how to play have beaten teams that are group friendly. Grouping up simply does NOT mean you will win mostof the time, and tbh, it's fun to group up and play against other groups. If you dislike seeing groups in WZ's, which has been possible since launch, I suggest finding some friends. My friends list is quite big, and I add peeps all the time who are looking for groups for PvP. It's not hard at all.

 

Hmmm...I agree with you but consider this: I group up ALL the time for PVP. Indeed, I rarely solo queue anymore. But, it's just not fun to faceroll like it was (and I admit, it was). And, yes, occasionally we get the great match against a good premade (and certainly lose such matches as well) but those are probably only 1 out of 6 games or so on my (now former) server. I can't count how many 600-0 Civil War matches, 6-0 in 5 minutes Huttball matches, 3-capping Novare Coast matches, etc. that I've been a part of in the past six weeks. Frankly it's been boring to me, my guild, and many other people I know.

 

I guess my point is this: telling people to group up for PVP in these forums and elsewhere, while the most logical and "purist" solution, is, in my opinion, not working like it once did. Indeed, every day I see pugs in PVP who I never see again who were facerolled but would have probably put up a good fight, and maybe even returned to PVP, had they been in a group. Instead we see a never-ending revolving door of players my guild rudely calls HFRs (High functioning r*****s).

 

Does that mean I agree with the idea that premades should be shuffled to another tier? Absolutely not!!, and simply because, as another poster wrote, that would defeat the purpose of ranked PVP not to mention the very idea of an MMO itself. So there has to be some sort of middle ground. Towards that end, I suggest that Bioware offer some sort of award for repeatedly grouping up in PVP or something of that nature so as to introduce players to the concept because lopsided victories are the great majority of what I see now. In fact, only a half hour ago on my new server we easily won 7 matches in a row and did not face a single premade or any sort of coordinated opposition for that matter. Lots of fun.

[Darth-Rammstein]

what I am really thinking is "Ok, there's 8 people who won't be queuing up again tonight." Maybe I am a Carebear, and a hypocrite, but I don't condone it.

 

You aren't too far off, in the past when there were lower populations and the chances of playing against the same premade was pretty good I would just stop queuing altogether and go level an alt or something. It definitely has a negative effect on queue times.

[MystbladeWA]

While i'd agree its not absolute as i also have beaten premades as a member of a PUG team, I also know that my first thought when i read the OP was "1-1? that sounds like a pretty **** Premade...".

 

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I know when I group with my guildies, especially in HB, it only really takes 4 of us to win the match against a PUG side in 90% of the cases. The rest of our team can usually do whatever they like.

[Gnoblesse]

I do the same thing... Queue at the same time and cross fingers. It helps with the w/l record. Sometimes we end up on the same team, some times opposite teams, sometimes different matches completely.

 

Don't see the problem or the point....

 

 

Some of my best PvP memories in this game was getting placed opposite another one of my guild's 4 man teams. Back before the merges, that happened a LOT.

 

Of course, we killed guildies first.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Gnoblesse

[NoaFlux]

Last night I played a Hutt Ball match. I solo que, but once the game started we played a team with two premades. Both premades were from the same guild. We lost in a 1-1 game, but *** BW THERE SHOULD NEVER BE an 8 man wz team in normals. Has this ever happened to anybody else?

 

Boy do I have news for you!

 

So last week I accidently got invited in to a "ranked" WZ. As soon as I got there they told me that we had to let the other side lose, and that we owe them a win for next match.

 

I was confused about what was going on and didn't want to assume anything. So they told me they were just trying to win coms because it's unfair when they get smashed in pug. They were telling each other to not try to cap certain doors, and to let people cap at specific times.

 

I left and said I didn't agree with that. I than got queued with them two more times next week. I left one match stayed in the other. In the one I stayed in we obviously lost, no matter how hard I tried we lost. Why? Cause it was fixed. I asked the players again (because you can never be sure) if this was a set up match...and they wanted me to define what "fake" or "cheating" ment etc. that's what it came down to. Later in chat some of them admitted it and said they thought nothing was wrong with it (yeah except they are being selfish).

 

I reported them and you should too.

 

THE NASTY CHAIN OF EVENTS THAT RUIN A GREAT GAME;

 

1. The guild on the opposite faction gets queud against pug> it's an instant death match, despite what some posters say on here, us 24/7 pug pvp'rs know they are just talking about rare cases when winning. It's complete luck for us, and a completely calculated by them to win. This is wrong, unfair, wastes my time, my real life money, and causes...

 

2. ....teams on the same faction to further cheat by queuing up against each other for coms because they get slaughtered by opposite faction 4-8 man guilds (first paragraph). Which again leaves pugs who aren't on either side to play in a "fixed" match while the pugs who aren't in "the loop" are using all their energy to win!! The rest of their team could be losing on purpose. Also we know this can be done through vent on OPPOSITE FACTIONS if the population is low. But even with it consolidated now, it seems like I get matched with the same people anyway. I know this happens a lot because I've been with guilds who talk to the opposite side, and some how know who they are playing before the match even starts!!

 

3. What you have here is no different than basic moral principles being broken. Example: Some body cheats their friends out of money and starts a convenience store, people around town know about this and in turn steal from the store every once and awhile (that's their justification at least). The store goes out of business and the chance that any more buisness will come back is low because they know of the stealing issues. So that block in town get's a bad reputation and no one wants to go there anymore. That's what is happening in Star Wars in PvP. That is undeniably part of the reason subscriptions are low. People are cheating left and right, and the examples given aren't even half the ways you could cheat.

 

Currently Bio Ware is micromanaging fairness by altering our abilities, but not once have they tried to make things fair in a REAL, LARGE, non micromanaging kind of way.

 

WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AT MIN. IS THAT WE NEED TO BE MADE AWARE OF WHO IS IN A GROUP QUEUING WITH US. IF THEIR ARE 2-7 QUEUED TOGETHER, AND YOU GET STUCK WITH THEM AS PUG THEIR NAMES NEED TO BE HIGHLIGHTED A SPECIAL COLOR, THAN IF PEOPLE FROM THEIR GUILD ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE (SAME FACTION) A STAR SYMBOL OR SOMETHING ALSO NEEDS TO BE PLACED NEXT TO THEIR NAME.[/color] THIS WILL AT LEAST LET US KNOW AHEAD OF TIME THAT SOMETHING IS UP SO WE CAN LEAVE THE MATCH. NOW IF BIO WARE REALLY WANTS TO KEEP THIS GAME TOGETHER, WE NEED TO BE NOTIFIED AHEAD OF TIME IF WE ARE PLAYING AGAINST ONE OR MORE GUILD PLAYERS ON THE OPPOSITE FACTION!!! IF THEY HAVE 8 ALL GROUPED UP AND WE HAVE NONE AT LEAST I WOULD KNOW THAT I SHOULD PUSH THE TEAM HARDER AND HAVE A GOOD REASON TO DO SO, PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO LISTEN IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE GOING UP AGAINST A TOUGHER TEAM. OR AT LEAST I CAN LEAVE AND NOT WASTE MY TIME, OR ASK OTHER LOW GEARED PLAYERS TO POLITELY LEAVE THIS SPECIFIC MATCH.

 

DO SOMETHING OR GO OUT OF BUSINESS.

 

*and please don't tell me that you can figure this out by if they are in a guild or not, because you obviously know nothing about WZ's. Guild's often work together, or not everyone is on at once they find sister guilds to queue with or random people who they know are good.

 

Blah..

Edited September 19, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Masarko]

Boy do I have news for you!

 

So last week I accidently got invited in to a "ranked" WZ. As soon as I got there they told me that we had to let the other side lose, and that we owe them a win for next match.

 

I was confused about what was going on and didn't want to assume anything. So they told me they were just trying to win coms because it's unfair when they get smashed in pug.

 

I left and said I didn't agree with that. I than got queued with them two more times next week. I left one match stayed in the other. In the one I stayed in we obviously lost, no matter how hard I tried we lost. Why? Cause it was fixed. I asked the players again (because you can never be sure) if this was a set up match...and they wanted me to define what "fake" or "cheating" ment etc. that's what it came down to. Later in chat some of them admitted it and said they thought nothing was wrong with it (yeah except they are being selfish).

 

I reported them and you should too.

 

So many things are happening it's a big chain of events;

 

1. The guild on the opposite faction gets queud against pug> it's an instant death match, despite what some posters say on here, us 24/7 pug pvp'rs know they are just talking about rare cases when winning. It's completeluck for us, and completely calculated by them to win. This is wrong, unfair, wastes my time, my real life money, and causes...

 

2. ....teams on the same faction to further cheat by queuing up against each other for coms because they get slaughtered by premades (first paragraph). Which again leaves pugs who aren't on either side to play in a "fixed" match where while the pugs who aren't in "the loop" are working as hard as possible, and using all their energy to win!! The rest of their team could be trying to lose on purpose.

 

3. What you have here is no different than basic moral principles being broken. Example: Some body cheats their friends out of money and starts a convenience store, people around town know about this and in turn steal from the store every once and awhile (that's their justification at least). The store goes out of business and the chance that any more buisness will come back is low because they know of the stealing issues. So that block in town get's a bad reputation and no one wants to go there anymore. That's what is happening in Star Wars in PvP. That is undeniably part of the reason subscriptions are low. People are cheating left and right, and the examples given aren't even half the ways you could cheat.

 

Currently Bio Ware is micromanaging fairness by altering our abilities, but not once have they tried to make things fair in a REAL, LARGE, non micromanaging kind of way.

 

WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AT MIN. IS THAT WE NEED TO BE MADE AWARE OF WHO IS IN A GROUP QUEUING WITH US. IF THEIR ARE 2-7 QUEUED TOGETHER, AND YOU GET STUCK WITH THEM AS PUG THEIR NAMES NEED TO BE HIGHLIGHTED A SPECIAL COLOR, THAN IF PEOPLE FROM THEIR GUILD ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE A STAR SYMBOL OR SOMETHING ALSO NEEDS TO BE PLACED NEXT TO THEIR NAME.[/color] THIS WILL AT LEAST LET US KNOW AHEAD OF TIME THAT SOMETHING IS UP SO WE CAN LEAVE THE MATCH, ESPECIALLY IF IT EFFECTS OUR ELO AND IF BIOWARE REALLY WANTS TO KEEP THIS GAME TOGETHER, WE NEED TO BE NOTIFIED AHEAD OF TIME IF WE ARE PLAYING AGAINST 1 or MORE GUILD PLAYERS ON THE OPPOSITE FACTION!!! IF THEY HAVE 8 ALL GROUPED UP AND WE HAVE NONE AT LEAST I KNOW THAT I SHOULD PUSH THE TEAM HARDER AND HAVE A GOOD REASON TO DO SO, PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO LISTEN IF WE KNEW THIS AS WELL

DO SOMETHING OR GO OUT OF BUSINESS.

 

Blah..

 

Dudeson thank god for failing with your color codes or else i wouldnt have read you post.

Anyway this win trade stuff going is simply stupid, so what if they do it, theyre not getting better just equal geared. I dont complain going in a warzone against slackers

[NoaFlux]

Dudeson thank god for failing with your color codes or else i wouldnt have read you post.

Anyway this win trade stuff going is simply stupid, so what if they do it, theyre not getting better just equal geared. I dont complain going in a warzone against slackers

 

Do you understand that they are on your side? You are on the same team as them, and even if you aren't they could be controlling the game through the opposite faction with vent. You are trying to play hard while they are doing the opposite. They tell each other not to go through a door, or to score at a certain time. Then they stretch the game out so they can get more points.

 

And yeah "cheating premades" are just one part of the problem, but when you get queued with them over and over again It starts to get annoying. What am I supposed to do wait until next week when they take a break?

 

Also they are teaching others to do it further increasing my chances of being with a "cheating premade"

 

If it's ranked I lose elo if I leave, and get points against me if I lose, and like I mentioned above I also just waste my energy. Here I am trying to turn the game around, trying to yell for pass etc. and no one listens. I'm warn out, and sick of the game after a couple of these. I lost elo because they didn't tell me until AFTER I joined that the ranked match was a set up if I leave.

 

Now I have to put in a ticket to get my elo back.

 

Cheating (and in turn winning) is just as addicting for some as alcohol or cigarettes. If Bio Ware doesn't slow it down it will consume everyone, or maybe it already has.

Edited September 19, 2012 by NoaFlux

[LarryRow]

Last night I played a Hutt Ball match. I solo que, but once the game started we played a team with two premades. Both premades were from the same guild. We lost in a 1-1 game, but *** BW THERE SHOULD NEVER BE an 8 man wz team in normals. Has this ever happened to anybody else?

 

If it was a same faction match and your side had 0 premades, then you got screwed and this is not working as intended.

 

To my knowledge the queue tries to match premades against each other. When you face a premade, or you have 1 and they have 2, it's bad luck. Sometimes you have good luck.

 

Anyone confirm?