A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[Aigole]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. For ToR, unfortunately, mostly the worst. This isn't my first review - I reviewed the game during the beta several times, but I was shunned by incredulous and overzealous fans. After all, it was "just" a beta. Well here we are, at the dawn of release - no longer in the beta. So where does this game stand in the grand scheme of things? How does it compare to WoW, SWG, Rift, GW2? Lets find out.

 

Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies (including the CGS invitational) and many many CS tournaments, including the CPL. I also had a stint working for an indie game developer several years ago. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about, and usually, I do.

 

The following is my commentary on your review:

 

Story

You started well here, though it sounds like you were in too much of a hurry to reach level 50. We all have our own pace, but it's clear this is not a feature you appreciate- so your personal bias against it affects the quality of your review. Few games offer this degree of storytelling and you failed to acknowledge that.

 

I agree with some of your points, however you changed the topic from Story to Quests about half way through that section. Quests should have been it's own topic. And before you go throwing names around, I actually know Tig. I doubt he'd encourage the usage of his name in bashing another company's product.

 

Combat

You state that the lack of Auto-attack is gaming breaking. I read where a Dev said our Companions were our Auto-attack. I disagree with both his and your statement.

 

The issue with combat is the way the Global Cooldown manages our abilities. The fact that some abilities should ignore the Global Cooldown, and do not, is a bigger problem. Abilities that are dependant upon incapacitated targets, etc, are not visible while the Global Cooldown is active. Those are more of an issue than the lack of Auto-attack.

 

While I agree pressing my non-resource consuming attack button is frequent, if you are pressing it 4-5 times in a row- you might want to work on a better attack rotation or reduce your caffeine intake (or just be less dramatic in attempting to make your point).

 

Stealth

You included this in the Combat section, but spent enough time on it that it deserves it's own section. Unless you want characters that can kill a player in 2 seconds, I'm not sure what else you want from Stealth. DPS/Healers and DPS/Tanks can use it (or Pure DPS with a short term duration, adding a degree of versatility to their class).

 

PvE and Leveling

Your review of this topic is in direct conflict of your Combat review. Either it plays well or it does not. And as you mentioned, Combat is the Crux of an MMORPG. As your comments in this section would indicate, you are a power-gamer. You shold appreciate the Shard system so that you do not experience heavy lag areas. Or appreciate a system that will move you to a group so that you can complete a quest you might normally skip over during a heavy leveling session.

 

PvP

You are, clearly, a fan of the WoW arena system. That appears to be all you really understand. World PvP has been lost for a very long time (SWG Pre-CU, DAoC, EQ) and ToR's attempts at it are just as bad as all of the current games: WoW included.

 

For someone who really tried to impress upon us how much you dislike the PvP system, I found it ironic that you missed the biggest flaw in the PvP system: the .5 second delay on all abilities.

 

Personally, I found your review of this section to be childish and poorly thought out.

 

Companions

You make another WoW reference here. Unless you were expecting Companions to replace players, I'm not sure what else you would like to see here. A companion does not heal; nor tank; nor DPS better than a Player. Companions act as fillers and participate in your character's story. You may invest time and resources into improving them- though you do not have to.

 

As an optional form of content, you seem very unhappy with being given a choice on what to do with yours.

 

UI Upgrades

You glanced over this topic, but the obvious need for one deserves far greater review and discussion. It almost feels like you ran out of gas after you PvP review.

 

It has been mentioned that an over-haul to this system is in the works, though you may not be aware of that. My opnion on it is that after WoW, all games should offer some degree of personal customization. It's apart of gaming evolution. Just as WoW borrowed much of it's content from EQ, so ToR should be borrowing from it's predecessors.

 

Final Thoughts

Lastly, you listed several games you played previously with their supposed group rankings. Anyone who has played a few video games is just as qualified as you are to make and give opinions. You are no more, or less, qualified by listing your pedigree. Stating that you know what you are talking about just opens up big cans of stupid.

[Maxkarnage]

I gave you PvP, and I'll give you player housing. What else? What major features did WoW not have. We're talking about features here, not whether or not it had a smooth launch, but by all means continue to throw out red herrings.

 

The problem is that I can list at least 10 standard 2012 MMO features ToR doesn't have off the top of my head. But you're so adamant in defending this game, you can't stay objective. See, I don't love WoW. As a matter of fact, I haven't played it for more than a year, but I completely understand why it's successful and why it continues to be the most played MMO. Do you?

 

If you do, then why do you even defend the lack of a combat log, the lack of mods, the lack of UI customization, the lack of PvP, etc. we see in ToR?

 

Again, why is he even here?

[djsmileey]

Again, why is he even here?

 

he won't answer me either.

 

He says it's to help the game.

 

We all know better.

[dvvx]

Again, why is he even here?

 

You'll only have 30 days to deal with me.

[Lienwyn]

I like this game....we'll see what happens when I hit 50 though, which will likely happen within a week or two at most.

[Fiachsidhe]

You'll only have 30 days to deal with me.

 

Why? Why are you even playing the 30 days? I don't get it. Someone with the resume of the world's mightiest gamer, surely has more stuff going on in his life, to sully it playing this lesser mmorpg, you could be back in your top ten..WoW...*Ppfftt* I'm sorry I couldn't even type that with a straight face. I don't even know how that's possible.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Fiachsidhe

[GamblerLee]

Dvvx- No one can argue the fact that swtor took maany of the same elements as WoW. But sounds like you are completely degrading this game because everything is better on WoW. Your review sounds a bit biased. Although I do agree with you on some points.

[Lienwyn]

Dvvx- No one can argue the fact that swtor took maany of the same elements as WoW. But sounds like you are completely degrading this game because everything is better on WoW. Your review sounds a bit biased. Although I do agree with you on some points.

 

Well there is some merit to the flaws of SWTOR.

 

If you're going to take elements from a game, you need to either diverge into your own refinement, or keep copying (#1 is usually better, otherwise you're simply strengthening the other game's grasp on the market).

 

I hope SWTOR chooses to refine, because currently one of the most blatantly copied ideas that is grossly out dated is.....

 

TALENT TREES.

[dvvx]

Why? Why are you even playing the 30 days? I don't get it. Someone with the resume of the world's mightiest gamer, surely has more stuff going on in his life, to sully it playing this lesser mmorpg, you could be back in your top ten..WoW...*Ppfftt* I'm sorry I couldn't even type that with a straight face. I don't even know how that's possible.

 

I find the forums more entertaining than the game. I run flashpoints if guildies need a tank, but I'm not going to actively be playing this trainwreck.

 

Dvvx- No one can argue the fact that swtor took maany of the same elements as WoW. But sounds like you are completely degrading this game because everything is better on WoW. Your review sounds a bit biased. Although I do agree with you on some points.

 

It's not the fact that everything is better on WoW, it's just that everything is terrible on SWTOR. I can compare ToR with Rift, and ToR still comes up short. I can compare it with Warhammer and it still comes up short. WoW is just the bar right now. In all honesty, however, ToR is a very poorly-executed MMORPG no matter what you choose to compare it to.

 

The only reason it hasn't fallen flat on it's face is because of "Bioware" and "Star Wars."

Edited December 23, 2011 by dvvx

[SmearBlood]

Review is completely biased, I find it hard to believe that you think ToR must have a white attack ability, Can it not be differant than other games?

 

I see nothing wrong with the game as it currently is, yes it needs some upgrades, but they have said it is coming. If you cannot wait til they are out then please leave, the community does not need more threads like this.

[nilssen]

PvP

PvP is a joke, there's not much more to say. It's an insult to any form of competitive activity. Huttball is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen implemented in an MMO: Warsong Gulch with a passable flag? Really? What irks me most is that someone actually made money coming up with such a terrible idea. Inconsistent traps, obnoxious commentators, bad layout, Huttball has it all. There are 15-year-olds that designed better Unreal Tournament maps. Sure, there may be some occasional mindless fun to be had with Huttball, but there's no real value here.

 

What a load of crap, please jump back into your trollhole you knob.

[Gravesyuh]

No Auto-Attack is one of the first critical points you have. Come on.

 

/thread

 

-signed competitive Battlefield player and MMO veteran since '99

[Daudr]

The OP's second paragraph says all you need to know about the "review." Basically he is a hardcore WoW arena guy that has a biased view. So go play WoW and leave TOR - simple enough.

[Gravesyuh]

The OP's second paragraph says all you need to know about the "review." Basically he is a hardcore WoW arena guy that has a biased view. So go play WoW and leave TOR - simple enough.

 

I'm going to have to agree, ironically he is comparing the game to GW2 which will have completely different functionality than SWG, WoW, Rift and SWTOR - in before he makes a post comparing WoW and GW2.

 

"I find that a game that forces you to aim your skills and dodge your enemies is too radical, this game is not like WoW ***."

[dvvx]

 

The following is my commentary on your review:

 

Story

You started well here, though it sounds like you were in too much of a hurry to reach level 50. We all have our own pace, but it's clear this is not a feature you appreciate- so your personal bias against it affects the quality of your review. Few games offer this degree of storytelling and you failed to acknowledge that.

 

I agree with some of your points, however you changed the topic from Story to Quests about half way through that section. Quests should have been it's own topic. And before you go throwing names around, I actually know Tig. I doubt he'd encourage the usage of his name in bashing another company's product.

Story is delivered through quests. Try to keep up.

 

 

Combat

You state that the lack of Auto-attack is gaming breaking. I read where a Dev said our Companions were our Auto-attack. I disagree with both his and your statement.

 

The issue with combat is the way the Global Cooldown manages our abilities. The fact that some abilities should ignore the Global Cooldown, and do not, is a bigger problem. Abilities that are dependant upon incapacitated targets, etc, are not visible while the Global Cooldown is active. Those are more of an issue than the lack of Auto-attack.

 

While I agree pressing my non-resource consuming attack button is frequent, if you are pressing it 4-5 times in a row- you might want to work on a better attack rotation or reduce your caffeine intake (or just be less dramatic in attempting to make your point).

I could have also mentioned cooldown counters, ability alerts, etc. But I didn't. What abilities Bioware choose to ignore the GCD is a design decision, not a flaw. You need to understand their entire combat metagame to make such an assessment. I haven't done enough PvP to fully understand their metagame.

 

In short, the lack of an auto-attack has no gameplay merit whereas putting ability X or Y on or off the GCD MAY have gameplay merit (for example, interrupts should always be off the GCD - which in ToR they are).

 

Stealth

You included this in the Combat section, but spent enough time on it that it deserves it's own section. Unless you want characters that can kill a player in 2 seconds, I'm not sure what else you want from Stealth. DPS/Healers and DPS/Tanks can use it (or Pure DPS with a short term duration, adding a degree of versatility to their class).

I clearly stated that stealth should be a mechanic, not a gimmick. Right now it's a gimmick. As you mentioned, basically everyone gets it, anyway.

 

PvE and Leveling

Your review of this topic is in direct conflict of your Combat review. Either it plays well or it does not. And as you mentioned, Combat is the Crux of an MMORPG. As your comments in this section would indicate, you are a power-gamer. You shold appreciate the Shard system so that you do not experience heavy lag areas. Or appreciate a system that will move you to a group so that you can complete a quest you might normally skip over during a heavy leveling session.

How is it in direct conflict with the combat section? Combat has to do with combat mechanics, PvE has to do with boss mechanics (i.e. aggro management, getting out of fires). Your argument that sharding reduces lag is also iffy. I've never lagged in WoW or Rift, for example. Neither of which had sharding. Grouping while leveling can be enjoyable - something that sharding discourages.

 

PvP

You are, clearly, a fan of the WoW arena system. That appears to be all you really understand. World PvP has been lost for a very long time (SWG Pre-CU, DAoC, EQ) and ToR's attempts at it are just as bad as all of the current games: WoW included.

 

For someone who really tried to impress upon us how much you dislike the PvP system, I found it ironic that you missed the biggest flaw in the PvP system: the .5 second delay on all abilities.

 

Personally, I found your review of this section to be childish and poorly thought out.

PvP is a joke. I'm not sure what you're arguing here. WoW PvP is not a joke. It's good. ToR PvP is a joke. They aren't even comparable on a macro level. The animation delays are a nuisance, although I can't notice them on my SW as I did on my IA.

 

Companions

You make another WoW reference here. Unless you were expecting Companions to replace players, I'm not sure what else you would like to see here. A companion does not heal; nor tank; nor DPS better than a Player. Companions act as fillers and participate in your character's story. You may invest time and resources into improving them- though you do not have to.

 

As an optional form of content, you seem very unhappy with being given a choice on what to do with yours.

You seem upset I keep mentioning WoW. Maybe you should read the title of the thread. I'm not unhappy given a choice of companions. Allow me to quote myself: "Some companions are interesting, some are boring. They do seem to break up the monotony of the often morose landscapes, but they are basically just pets." And I continue: "Companion crafting is a great idea, however."

 

I don't seem upset at all.

 

UI Upgrades

You glanced over this topic, but the obvious need for one deserves far greater review and discussion. It almost feels like you ran out of gas after you PvP review.

 

It has been mentioned that an over-haul to this system is in the works, though you may not be aware of that. My opnion on it is that after WoW, all games should offer some degree of personal customization. It's apart of gaming evolution. Just as WoW borrowed much of it's content from EQ, so ToR should be borrowing from it's predecessors.

There must be about 4000 threads about the UI. Take your pick. I also don't think UI upgrades are even that relevant in a review when so much of the core of the game is broken.

[antOWNio]

OP is just another WoW fanboy who has a leash tied around his neck. I don't care if you played CS:S or CS competetively, so did I, this doesn't give you any merit points whatsoever. So you played at the CPL, big deal, you did what most nerds do at their computers at home on a daily basis, yet you did it in one room full of hundreds of nerds, what's the difference. I've done it too. Oh and who are you again? I've never haerd of you before, so why should I care what your opinion is.

 

I'll play the game and make my own opinions, and so far, this game destroys WoW on all levels. ( I played WoW since vanilla).

[djsmileey]

You'll only have 30 days to deal with me.

 

dvvx is rapidly devolving. Soon he will resort to name calling and obvious trolls just to get attention.

[GamblerLee]

I would consider this more of an opinion than review. But anyways... Of course WoW is better in many aspects. It had 7+ years to fix itself. But to say this game is complete **** confuses me. What this game has going for it is graphics. And honestly, gameplay wise, it feels very much like WoW. To say this game sucks is to say WoW sucked when it first came out. Just give it time to update content, and I can see a very bright future for this game.

I just hope the community could be a little more respectful

[Maxkarnage]

He got what he wanted, more notoriety and forum fame.

[kennn]

He got what he wanted, more notoriety and forum fame.

 

too bad people can't prove him wrong. many people seem to agree with his points. oh well..

[FerrusPA]

I would consider this more of an opinion than review.

 

Buuuuut that's exactly what a review is. A (hopefully) educated opinion.

[kennn]

Buuuuut that's exactly what a review is. A (hopefully) educated opinion.

 

you would think people would understand this simple concept. nope!

[TheSeventhJedi]

Oh good, this again.

 

I enjoy TOR.

 

I've been playing it for a year now.

 

I have no intention of stopping.

 

What's the problem?

 

I really hope it turns off the hardcore WoW players, and that they all really do follow through and leave - they're what made WoW unbearable in the first place. A game that can be played casually with enough content to keep me occupied for years? Sign me up. I'm sure there are plenty of like-minded people who will come for the story, and if all the "less QQ more pew pew" mind-set leave because of it, then we may have a shot at a decent community.

[Ruinruin]

So many pages... I thought i would add my 2 cents.

 

Largly, I agree with the OP

 

I really, really want to like this game, I quit wow to play it after 7 years. Sadly though, at the moment I am starting to hate it. I am about to ding lvl 42 so there is much I am yet to experience still, but here are some dot points...

 

the bad:

 

* lvling is grind with very little variation in quests. The bonus missions tack on extra grind, my heart sinks every time i see "bonus: 1/30 killed" pop up in a room of silver and gold star'd mobs

* Travel time is big, back and forth back and forth then repeated on the next planet and so on.

* The need to have a character story has slowed lvling down way too much.

* Character abilities. I don't know if its just my IA (i didn't play beta this is my 1st and only toon so i have limited experience) but I have so many abilities that all do basically the same thing. Snipe, ambush, followthrough, series of shots and takedown.... IMO they could be replaced with 2 abilities, a main nuke and a proc that offers something. There are other examples I could give here.

* UI. need macros and mods as well as extra functionality. Proc graphic in the middle of the screen and things like that would be nice.

* Story mode for me hasn't worked. I need a new space bar.

 

The Good:

* Companions, I think they are cool even though they are fairly basic. Ability to choose which one u need and crafting is great

* Game looks really good

* quest tracking and map is top notch

* the SW universe has been well made

* its a great single player RPG (i don't know, maybe this is a negative in an MMO?)

 

Final thoughts...

As i said at the start i really want to like this game but at the moment I have some concerns. A lot is going to depend on the content they add for me. There needs to be meaningful endgame progression. This does not have to be raids like in wow it could mean single player, crafting, small party, pvp or something completely new. What ever it is it needs to be engaging and meaningful or there is no point in paying $15 a month.

 

I am also worried if they have to voice every thing and make cut scenes for even thing for each of the 8 classes how much content will they be able to churn out in the longer term? Game has just come out so they will have a lot of content that didn't make it in to the release that they can push out in the 1st year or so, but what happens after that?

[Mivanda]

Did WoW start out as a giant? Absolutely not. It took time and many improvements to make it what it is today. Heck, Blizzard still has some improving to do. Some points I can agree with, the others I cannot. SWTOR should have launched with more features, but it didn't. But I don't think it's dead. It could die if BioWare ignores consumers, but I don't think they will.

 

Your "accomplishments" don't count as experience that really makes your opinion more valuable than others. I used to have a friend in high school that thought he was a philosophical genius who knew everything. He was annoying and he eventually lost the friends he had. When someone tells me "I know what I'm talking about" that's when I stop listening/reading. I was actually hoping that I'd find a decent review, but that's not the case here.