New to the game - pessimism all around!

[Superawesomerman]

No one suggested it was, though I do prefer SWTOR's VO and story over GW2 abysmal Voice acting and paper thin story...but to each their own.

 

I think the vo is better in swtor, the stories are both pretty uninspired, from what I've seen so far. It got mentioned in another thread, but gw2 has some excellent original score, which I like more than swtors. Is there any star wars themes in swtor? I can't remember.

[Superawesomerman]

Hmm, examples? Well, I like TOR for one. But I'd say that stuff I like is generally in better taste than stuff you like that I don't.

 

That's... Kinda a given.

[Trenter]

That's... Kinda a given.

 

Exactly.

[Legolose]

I think the vo is better in swtor, the stories are both pretty uninspired, from what I've seen so far. It got mentioned in another thread, but gw2 has some excellent original score, which I like more than swtors. Is there any star wars themes in swtor? I can't remember.

What freakin game are you playing SWTOR has one of the best story in game that I ve seen from any mmo's out there, here is a suggestion if you dont like it then go play something else

[LordArtemis]

Exactly.

 

Ah, Trentor. You have quite an interesting forum history.

[LordArtemis]

What freakin game are you playing SWTOR has one of the best story in game that I ve seen from any mmo's out there, here is a suggestion if you dont like it then go play something else

 

...he says to the 2/3 of the player base that have done exactly that....

 

Might want to stop telling folks to leave guys. If people keep doing that there will not be a game to play.

[Trenter]

Ah, Trentor. You have quite an interesting forum history.

 

It's Trenter actually, and I'm glad you've enjoyed it! Cheers mate!

[aristein]

Yea, I started playing about 6 weeks ago and get a lot of the same attitutes around me. I think we missed all the fun, before the merged servers, fixed many bugs, etc. My opinion is that it is a combination of group mentality (get enough complainers and you get lots of others following them mindlessly), and Bioware's inexperience with making MMO's. They did what they do best and made a great roleplaying game complete with a fantastic star wars world, great story, high quality development (sounds, look, feel) and the game just looks and feels great. However, they made many mistakes, didn't make much repeatable content, underestimated how fast players would chew through content and then have nothing fun to replay until new content, underestimated how fast they would need to develop new content, didn't systematically fix bugs in a timely fashion, and so on. At least that is my impressions from following the game since well before launch (I just wasn't able to play until recently). Then add the massive loss of players (and many of their friends) who got fixated on these issues and bored or fed-up.

 

Now players that held on seem to have a kind of shell shocked attitude. The F2P announcement added to this (even for me who had only played a few weeks before they announced it)...just seemed like a surrender or a desperate act rather than a planned improvement.

 

For me, I try to keep my perspective and not get fixated on just certain things: The game is fun, the game looks and feels really good, I notice the high quality of the game everywhere, in all the little details, not just try to pick everything apart until I am not having fun.

 

I waited years for a MMO that I could get into again and swtor is the only one that has offered it to me. I just can't go back to the same old medieval neverland worlds that have been done and re-done 100 times and more (i.e. GW2, Rift, WOW, LOTRO, UO, etc etc etc....all the same neverland medieval worlds). I played Eve online for a few years when it came out, but it is a massive time sink to do anything, and the pvp is just too brutal (you lose your ship, everything in your ship, and credits/clone if you get ganked.). I tried The Secret World but it looked and felt so clumsy and just wrong that I couldn't play it for long.

 

So, for me it is simple. SWTOR is the ONLY MMO that offers something different than the same old medieval fantasy world that actually looks and feels good to play.....and the stories are awesome. I've had a lot of fun the last 6 weeks and that is really all that matters.

Edited September 15, 2012 by aristein

[sinnaman]

Just seems that BW spends its time trying to increase revenue by solely focusing on new members and sacrifices its current subscribers to do so.

 

This is the sad reality of the world we live in. Verizon, Comcast, DirecTV, and a ton of other major companies do this very same thing to their existing customers every day. I'm not saying this is right I'm just saying that BW is not the only ones.

[DorkTrooper]

I can't believe you really think that, do you? Or when you go shopping for a cell phone or car, do you accept one with less abilities or functionality than your current one?

 

When I go shopping for a cell phone or a car, I do a little research to find out what features it will have before I buy it. Then I make my choice based on whether or not I like those particular features, not whether or not they were in my previous cell phone or car.

 

And I don't spend the next month/2 months/3 months logging onto a forum and bashing the product for not being exactly what I wanted. If it isn't what I wanted at that point, I just quit using it/sell it/move on with my life.

 

Either you enjoy the game as is, or you don't.

[Blooddlusst]

I have played MMO's for 20 years...yes thats a long time. The reason SWTOR has went from TONS and TONS of servers at launch to 11 or 12 NA servers is because of the lack of content. I honestly thought EA would have learned their lesson by now with Warhammer, but they just keep repeating the same old cycle...

 

Work on a game for 4+ years, the day of launch you yank all the games designers and creators to start some other project and put in place a skeleton crew to manage the servers and customer service. I'm sorry but its been almost 9 months without talk of an expansion. 1 planet and 1 WZ and 1 instance isnt an expansion. I'm a casual player only 12 or so hours per week and there is nothing left for me to do in game.

 

Unfortunately this game deserves to fail with the idiots they have running the show. I would put money on Bioware begging for more resources to develop the game and EA coming back and saying, "sorry, but you have not exceeded the financial timeline to justify more content for SWTOR". I work in some of these environments so I know exactly how some of these conversations are going. Any MMO deserves to fail without BI-YEARLY expansions..and i'm not talking about a 5% increase in content. If the expansion doesnt add at least 25% to the existing game size, then it's not an expansion. The game is great for the new player...you will stay busy for about 5 months if you are a casual gamer, then you will join the thousands of us waiting...most have already left because they are not going to wait, that fact may have already doomed this game to fail like all the countless others.

[LordArtemis]

I'd like to run into complete speculation mode here.

 

That means that little of what I am about to say has any basis in fact, since I have no way to verify most of it. It's just a hunch lets say.

 

But I think I have an idea of how this played out, and how we got here.

 

First, there was a design idea, one of many that was nailed down. The idea was that KotOR was popular, ME was popular, DaO was popular, so something that emulated those things in an online game was a natural move. It would offer something unique in the industry....and single player game set up like an MMO...though they would probably never admit that.

 

When they started they felt people like themepark MMOs, so lets make it themepark. Cant blame them for that. Lets borrow things other games do well, and lets offer it all...LFG, complete end game, ranked warzones, ranked PVP, etc.

 

Everything that WoW has and more.

 

They probably got a pretty good budget, and offered a proposal that got that initial budget inflated a bit...EA was stoked about the idea, and LA was completely on board.

 

During development, however, something happened. They found out at some point that this thing was going to cost WAY more than expected, and they had to start making sacrifices. At that point they had designed around half the game, had most of the VO and sound done. So the things that ended up on the chopping block, one by one, were the features they had intended to add before launch.

 

They didnt like it. But they couldnt share that with us. The crew, the devs, were all disappointed when they saw features that they have been hard at work on set aside, when the got sent to work on parts of the game they had never touched.

 

Then something else started to happen...The devs themselves started to get the feeling the game had a problem it could not shake...too little time and money, not enough to fill it out. Again, they couldn't share that with us or even really discuss it between themselves, but you can bet many of them knew even before launch there was a problem.

 

They laid all of their hopes on the appeal of the story. They had little else to hook us and they knew it. They were not happy about it, but management told them they were going nowhere, they had an aggressive update schedule and the work would not go to waste.

 

So they watched the forums and waited. They watched during beta as the players expressed certain concerns about the game...they agreed with us but could do nothing, could say nothing. They might approach one or two people here or there, eventually a group of employees, probably just before launch, got together and said "we need to talk".

 

The wall of crazy was born. It wasn't our ideas...it was the ideas that the devs actually heard from us and felt the game needed.

 

But alas, it was not to be.

 

My guess is the first dev naysayer cropped up about 3 months after launch, when they noticed how many people had actually subbed to the game. That person was joined by a few more when the subs dipped dramatically, even more about 6 to 7 months in.

 

Some left. Others were fired. Then a bunch were fired or left. Disappointment and loss of heart was common I would expect. This was their baby....and it was not shining like they wanted it to.

 

At this point the conversations changed from "this will rock" to "this is solid, it will be fine"...but many believed it wouldn't be fine. They sat in the meetings, talked about things they think the game needs, just like we do...and they mostly get "we will see".

 

Don't kid yourselves. Ill bet hard money that most if not all of the good suggestions players have given over the last nine months are exactly the kind of things they are chomping at the bit to do. But the money isn't there.

 

My bet is there are lots of broken hearts, and they may not share it or show it, but I'll bet many of them agree with us.

 

Now, a few things actually go against the design intent, but Ill bet that intent is not set in stone any longer. At this point I think they are willing to do or try just about anything.

 

Just my opinion. Something to think about.

[Superawesomerman]

As has probably been pointed out before, the very idea of single player / story driven mmo is antithetical. Unless they make story server wide, but bioware doesn't really the genius to make that work.

[Yogol]

I'm just curious where all the dire vibes are coming from.

 

Report back top us a month after you hit 50... there is nothing to do for most players. Unless you are a hardcore player, preferably in a hardcore guild (you know, the guilds that are favored by the DEVs, that get character transfers to PST that the rest of the people don't get).

[Yogol]

They found out at some point that this thing was going to cost WAY more than expected, and they had to start making sacrifices. At that point they had designed around half the game, had most of the VO and sound done. So the things that ended up on the chopping block, one by one, were the features they had intended to add before launch.

 

That is a theory that was expressed before on some non-official forums (you know, where DEVs can post their real opinion instead of the official corporate line...).

 

To add to that theory...

 

Why wasn't there enough money to add these features... This game had a reported development budget of 200.000.000,00 USD. That is alot of money: if you can't develop the MMO-features that players are asking with that kind of budget, it means that you got no clue what you're doing.

 

And THAT is the reason why this game is failing... Bioware had ZERO experience with MMOs. When a company that has that sort of budget can't even lauch with a groupfinder or a half-decent GTN, you know all there is to know.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Yogol

[Leiralei]

Everyone seems so pessimistic. Perhaps I missed out on the real fun-time bash that was early Old Republic, but on the whole I am indeed having fun playing the game. There is enough life to not feel like the worlds are completely empty, but also not overcrowded so I don't feel "small". I'm just curious where all the dire vibes are coming from. Personally I'd like to cruise through the story, sidequests, and join a nice RP guild and settle down. What's with all the naysayers?

 

Well, Bioware has consistently blamed customers for a negative attitude even before there was a negative attitude. "People want this game to fail" happened because Bioware devs DESIGNED the game to fail. You think it's a big conversion to free to play? No, that was planned before they even started, as a slap in the face to loyal fans.

 

Then, the bugs. We're paying for a beta of a free to play game.

 

Then the hacks and cheats and exploits, which are encouraged by Bioware through lack of policing so dire that I'm now convinced it's Bioware employees who are cheating.

 

I loved this game. I love my characters, even though every class story had a huge *** moment that totally broke immersion because my character had no option to say something even close to what her character would say... I love the graphics, the sounds, and that it's not some creepy fantasy thing involving pandas. o.O

 

But I'm no longer willing to pay to be focus fired by 8 cheaters every game just because I spoke out against win trading and Bioware decided to tacitly encourage cheaters through lack of real consequences.

 

Free this game will be worth playing for the class story. That's about it.

 

After playing this long, I've come to the conclusion that Bioware HATES it's fanbase.

 

You can't rip people off when you feel respect for them, so they have to hate us first. They have to think we're stupid to care about a silly space opera. They have to think that anyone who doesn't cheat is stupid. Or they can't go through with this plan. But they're going through with it and that means they hate us and despise us.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Leiralei

[Superawesomerman]

They don't hate their fan base. They just dont give two craps about them other than as sources of income.

[NinjaApacHe]

Tell the pessimists to go .............. this game is great!

[Diet-Hutt]

Well, Bioware has consistently blamed customers for a negative attitude even before there was a negative attitude. "People want this game to fail" happened because Bioware devs DESIGNED the game to fail. You think it's a big conversion to free to play? No, that was planned before they even started, as a slap in the face to loyal fans.

 

Thank you.

 

People seem to be under the impression that a person would pay $74 for a game, plus 8 months of a subscription fee at $130 just for the chance to complain about SWTOR.

 

Get real.

 

Come on, stop the pity party. Players invested time and money into this game and were let down. Some just wanted it to be fixed and stuck around pointing to flawed areas needing work, other just gave up.

 

The game HAD problems, the game lacked the standards for a basic MMO, the game had an unoptimized engine, the game wasn't ready for release and was put out there anyway.

 

Bio/EA took the wrong stance to the issues, but guess what?

 

All those 'complaints' from paying customers eventually had them letting go of that massive ego, and moving in the right direction.

 

Nobody was born to hate this game, and only a fool would pay for it just to crash it.

You can't even post comments unless you're a subscriber.

 

What's with all the naysayers?

 

The game didn't live up to the hype and had massive issues from the start. People had problems with that. It's very simple really.

 

Please put the victim card back in the deck.

 

- DH

Edited September 16, 2012 by Diet-Hutt

[turjake]

Bio/EA took the wrong stance to the issues, but guess what?

 

All those 'complaints' from paying customers eventually had them letting go of that massive ego, and moving in the right direction.

 

- DH

 

Like booting most of the veteran developers and community people out and not hiring anyone to replace them? If you are EA stock owner, that might be the right direction, I just cannot see as a player how it could be.

[Diet-Hutt]

Like booting most of the veteran developers and community people out and not hiring anyone to replace them?

 

I said moving in the right direction and as long as they continue to improve the game and fix the mess that is a fact.

 

I don't want to get into the reasons behind the firing/layoff/leavings because I don't work at EA/Bio and am not privy to the reasons behind it. Unless you work there you'd just be speculating.

 

Honestly...I don't care either.

As long as those moves were made in order to make this game playable and enjoyable.

Sometimes letting go of certain team members is a must for a project to grow unhindered by old ideas.

 

Sometimes people SHOULD be fired.

 

They've obviously made blunders and they are obviously working to correct them.

Albeit a bit slower than I'd imagine the company would.

 

They did make some much needed additions to the game, as well as implemented a lot of the things that should have been there at launch.

 

As much as I think the game was a big failure all around, I'd be a fool to not acknowledge that they are TRYING to make it workable. I don't want to be some blind raging hater here. The game has problems, but I didn't want it to fail.

 

- DH

[Macheath]

So all the whiners are just real pro:s who have such a high demands no real company can meet them?

 

I don't think the most common requests from the players are all that unreasonable, actually. I don't see a lot of high demands from the average player who is on the fence about whether ToR is worth playing. Mostly it's about bug fixes, and adding more content. Neither of those are unreasonable. Bug fixes go without saying, and as to the requests for more content, BioWare chose to give us a strictly theme park MMO; They need to fill it with rides. That, or give us a sand box to play in, but BioWare seems reluctant to do that.

 

For an example of a "real company" that can meet player demands for content, look no further than the dedicated staff at Trion (Rift) for inspiration. Those guys not only have random server events (rifts) to attempt to keep players busy, but also pump out larger, planned server events more frequently than any other MMO on the market. And they do that while chugging along developing new end-game content and expansions at the same time.

 

Other common requests, like appearance tabs/armor customization and dual specs, aren't that unreasonable, either. Every AAA MMO on the market has these types of features... except ToR. People have a right to expect that an MMO claiming to be a competitor with other major brands have the same level of functionality as those other brands.

 

-Macheath.

[turjake]

I said moving in the right direction and as long as they continue to improve the game and fix the mess that is a fact.

 

I don't want to get into the reasons behind the firing/layoff/leavings because I don't work at EA/Bio and am not privy to the reasons behind it. Unless you work there you'd just be speculating.

 

Honestly...I don't care either.

As long as those moves were made in order to make this game playable and enjoyable.

Sometimes letting go of certain team members is a must for a project to grow unhindered by old ideas.

 

Sometimes people SHOULD be fired.

 

They've obviously made blunders and they are obviously working to correct them.

Albeit a bit slower than I'd imagine the company would.

 

They did make some much needed additions to the game, as well as implemented a lot of the things that should have been there at launch.

 

As much as I think the game was a big failure all around, I'd be a fool to not acknowledge that they are TRYING to make it workable. I don't want to be some blind raging hater here. The game has problems, but I didn't want it to fail.

 

- DH

 

I guess the difference is that I dont think they started fixing problems/optimizing the engine and so on just because players started complaining about those. What I know about software developing I cannot believe the engine developers did not know exactly what was missing and what needed optimizing. I have to guess they ran out of time or they would have fixed those problems before the game was released. Same with additional game features and content. Someone higher up decided the deadline and what was needed on the release date.

 

Reducing the development staff can only slow the process of fixing bugs and adding stuff. it doesnt matter why they did it.

Edited September 16, 2012 by turjake

[turjake]

I don't think the most common requests from the players are all that unreasonable, actually. I don't see a lot of high demands from the average player who is on the fence about whether ToR is worth playing. Mostly it's about bug fixes, and adding more content. Neither of those are unreasonable. Bug fixes go without saying, and as to the requests for more content, BioWare chose to give us a strictly theme park MMO; They need to fill it with rides. That, or give us a sand box to play in, but BioWare seems reluctant to do that.

 

For an example of a "real company" that can meet player demands for content, look no further than the dedicated staff at Trion (Rift) for inspiration. Those guys not only have random server events (rifts) to attempt to keep players busy, but also pump out larger, planned server events more frequently than any other MMO on the market. And they do that while chugging along developing new end-game content and expansions at the same time.

 

Other common requests, like appearance tabs/armor customization and dual specs, aren't that unreasonable, either. Every AAA MMO on the market has these types of features... except ToR. People have a right to expect that an MMO claiming to be a competitor with other major brands have the same level of functionality as those other brands.

 

-Macheath.

 

You said yourself in your last post that you were tired of WoW. Yet you seem to ask that this game implements all that fancy stuff that WoW has. Do you think your burnout for WoW-kind of games will somehow go away if they do all that?

 

Sure this game needs bug fixes, additional systems and more content. My favourite would be JTL-kind of space flying. I just assume making that properly will take loads of time so I dont expect it this year.

[devincor]

I can't believe you really think that, do you? Or when you go shopping for a cell phone or car, do you accept one with less abilities or functionality than your current one?

 

When I go shopping for a cell phone or a car, I do a little research to find out what features it will have before I buy it. Then I make my choice based on whether or not I like those particular features, not whether or not they were in my previous cell phone or car.

 

And I don't spend the next month/2 months/3 months logging onto a forum and bashing the product for not being exactly what I wanted. If it isn't what I wanted at that point, I just quit using it/sell it/move on with my life.

 

Either you enjoy the game as is, or you don't.

 

I agree. I do the same research for the products i buy.

 

I was originally making the point that you do have the right to compare the SWTOR to all current mmo games out there today.