This is not Star Wars

[Urael]

I never said that (perhaps someone else did?). I will stand my ground in claiming that the vast majority of people are not what any of you would term "Star Wars fans" and could not give a rat's **** about the EU in any form. I bet if you asked a group of random teens to twenty somethings (the majority demographic for many MMO's) that many of them would say that this being Star Wars is actually a turn off rather than a draw.

 

If you then start calling people ignorant for being unaware of some books which, let's be honest, are probably not what anyone would actually call literature, then you are going to turn away many more potential players.

 

Has nothing to do with "literature". It has to do with the fact that "kids today" do NOT read. The entire subculture that "gaming" came out of was the Sci-Fi community. That community spawned the PnP RPGs that were the inspiration for MUDs and MOOs that became Themepark and Sandbox MMORPGs respectively. The Teen to 20 somethings you claim are the target audience don't appriciate all that came before them that make MMORPGS so ubiquitous.

[Kahotep]

Has nothing to do with "literature". It has to do with the fact that "kids today" do NOT read. The entire subculture that "gaming" came out of was the Sci-Fi community. That community spawned the PnP RPGs that were the inspiration for MUDs and MOOs that became Themepark and Sandbox MMORPGs respectively. The Teen to 20 somethings you claim are the target audience don't appriciate all that came before them that make MMORPGS so ubiquitous.

 

That's an incredible assumption. If someone has never read a Star Wars book, then they obviously have never read any book. I am a High School teacher and I can assure you that they do read. They read just as much today as they did 25 years ago when I was a teenager.

 

The majority of them don't read Star Wars books and have no interest in doing so. I never read a Star Wars book either in the 70's, 80's or any time since. Does that mean you think I have never read a book either?

[CosmicKat]

Has nothing to do with "literature". It has to do with the fact that "kids today" do NOT read. The entire subculture that "gaming" came out of was the Sci-Fi community. That community spawned the PnP RPGs that were the inspiration for MUDs and MOOs that became Themepark and Sandbox MMORPGs respectively. The Teen to 20 somethings you claim are the target audience don't appriciate all that came before them that make MMORPGS so ubiquitous.

 

You are correct.

 

He is also correct. Star Wars is a bad joke among many of the generation he's talking about. This is one reason why TOR isn't a blockbuster. Gameplay is aimed at a generation that doesn't have any attachment to the source. They'd have been much better off aiming it at the mature, oldschool player IMO.

[Kahotep]

You are correct.

 

He is also correct. Star Wars is a bad joke among many of the generation he's talking about. This is one reason why TOR isn't a blockbuster. Gameplay is aimed at a generation that doesn't have any attachment to the source. They'd have been much better off aiming it at the mature, oldschool player IMO.

 

Absolutely right. Most of the Star Wars fans I know are 40 somethings like me. I'm the weird one because I still play computer games.

 

The teenagers that I teach have no interest in Star Wars and see it as something from their parent's generation.

[Urael]

That's an incredible assumption. If someone has never read a Star Wars book, then they obviously have never read any book. I am a High School teacher and I can assure you that they do read. They read just as much today as they did 25 years ago when I was a teenager.

 

The majority of them don't read Star Wars books and have no interest in doing so. I never read a Star Wars book either in the 70's, 80's or any time since. Does that mean you think I have never read a book either?

 

Since you self reported that you are a high school teacher I will assume that you are an authoritative source for the sake of this discussion. From my anecdotal evidence (friends, family, etc.) I don't see anyone reading as much as I did when I was of the same age. They can't even be bothered to read a comic book let alone a novel. It's not "interactive enough". I wonder what will happen to this generation when the power goes out. Experts at looking up information but, not at knowing anything. Oh for the days of "classical" education that taught how to think and how to learn instead of passing standarized tests and preparing for specific jobs. If you can think and learn you can do anything.

 

I have a hard time believing that your students are as voracious about reading as we were back when it was our primary option to be immersed in the genres of Sci-fi/Fantasy/Super Heroes.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Urael

[RixoFutu]

I don't know here you live, but on planet Earth, SW is still very popular theme in all possible ways - movies, games, clothing, collector figures. Everyone i know, know what SW is. In the end, in most comedy tv series are some references to SW. It's still very popular universe.

 

Absolutely right. Most of the Star Wars fans I know are 40 somethings like me. I'm the weird one because I still play computer games.

 

The teenagers that I teach have no interest in Star Wars and see it as something from their parent's generation.

[legbamel]

If anything, my kids are bigger Star Wars fans than I am, and both are huge readers. The eldest is playing KOTOR while I'm playing SWTOR and the youngest has read more SW books than I ever knew existed. Both of them have been begging to play with their father and me and we may let them each have one character in F2P, with the stipulation that they only group with the fam. They want light sabers and jet packs like any normal person.

[Kahotep]

Since you self reported that you are a high school teacher I will assume that you are an authoritative source for the sake of this discussion. From my anecdotal evidence (friends, family, etc.) I don't see anyone reading as much as I did when I was of the same age. They can't even be bothered to read a comic book let alone a novel. It's not "interactive enough". I wonder what will happen to this generation when the power goes out. Experts at looking up information but, not at knowing anything. Oh for the days of "classical" education that taught how to think and how to learn instead of passing standarized tests and preparing for specific jobs. If you can think and learn you can do anything.

 

I have a hard time believing that your students are as voracious about reading as we were back when it was our primary option to be immersed in the genres of Sci-fi/Fantasy/Super Heroes.

 

I think you are making the mistake of comparing your perception of "kids today" with your memories of you and your friends.

 

I read book after book after book when I was a teenager, but I am under no illusions that I was typical for a teenager in the 1980's. A great many of the teenagers I teach today do not read for pleasure and would rather play Call of Duty, but many of them do read. I would bet my eye teeth that just as many of them read regularly as did back in the 1980's when I was their age i.e. a significant minority.

 

History is full of old men moaning about "kids today". The reality is that technology changes but people do not. The idea that all kids do today is sit in their bedrooms playing console games is nonsense. They also play sports, watch TV, go to the movies, join the boy scouts, learn musical instruments etc etc. All the things we did.

 

If anything, kids today are far more clued up and in touch with the world than kids in the past. My generation didn't have Google. I couldn't have found the answer to a question on the smart phone I didn't have. I couldn't get an instant translation of a line of foreign text.

 

Kids are far less ignorant than you portray them. They are really exactly like the kids you went to school with....

 

...but they aren't into Star Wars. Not many of them, anyway.

[Urael]

I think you are making the mistake of comparing your perception of "kids today" with your memories of you and your friends.

 

I read book after book after book when I was a teenager, but I am under no illusions that I was typical for a teenager in the 1980's. A great many of the teenagers I teach today do not read for pleasure and would rather play Call of Duty, but many of them do read. I would bet my eye teeth that just as many of them read regularly as did back in the 1980's when I was their age i.e. a significant minority.

 

History is full of old men moaning about "kids today". The reality is that technology changes but people do not. The idea that all kids do today is sit in their bedrooms playing console games is nonsense. They also play sports, watch TV, go to the movies, join the boy scouts, learn musical instruments etc etc. All the things we did.

 

If anything, kids today are far more clued up and in touch with the world than kids in the past. My generation didn't have Google. I couldn't have found the answer to a question on the smart phone I didn't have. I couldn't get an instant translation of a line of foreign text.

 

Kids are far less ignorant than you portray them. They are really exactly like the kids you went to school with....

 

...but they aren't into Star Wars. Not many of them, anyway.

 

Perhaps. I don't see it. Information retention is not the same. Google in my day was a library. If my school or public library didn't have what I was looking for, I went the local community college and other colleges in my area to find what I needed. Slower? Yes. Limited by the domain of knowledge they posses? Yes. But similar just not immediate. I speak to twenty somethings at the IT firm I work at and they don't "know much". Sure they know how to find it but, they don't have it "on hand" in their minds. You have to admit that there is a difference in emphais today. I think depending more and more on technology is not a good thing. What are your kids going to do without google or calculators or computer? How will they beable to defend themselves in a debate if they can't look up what they need?

 

As far as SW not being popular. How come there are so many refference to it in "pop culture" today? Do your kids that you teach not get all the references? Why is the clone wars television show aimed at that age group and not adults so popular?

[Rafaman]

This is Star Wars, most definitely Star Wars, just because it isn't primary G-canon doesn't make it anything less, your EU newbies should get to know the lore better, hell just get them to play the KotOR series.

 

Yup, if they play KotOR they would have a very different opinion.

[CosmicKat]

As far as SW not being popular. How come there are so many refference to it in "pop culture" today? Do your kids that you teach not get all the references? Why is the clone wars television show aimed at that age group and not adults so popular?

 

Most pop culture is written by 30-50 year olds. Most of the SW references I see refer to the original trilogy or they are jokes about how awful the prequels were. Listen to the silence whenever Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert make a Star Wars (or DnD) reference. They'll even make jokes about how nobody catches the references.

[Urael]

Most pop culture is written by 30-50 year olds. Most of the SW references I see refer to the original trilogy or they are jokes about how awful the prequels were. Listen to the silence whenever Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert make a Star Wars (or DnD) reference. They'll even make jokes about how nobody catches the references.

 

Man I must have been "worldly" then when I was a teen, I got all the jokes on Saturday night Live (original cast).

[Kahotep]

Perhaps. I don't see it. Information retention is not the same. Google in my day was a library. If my school or public library didn't have what I was looking for, I went the local community college and other colleges in my area to find what I needed. Slower? Yes. Limited by the domain of knowledge they posses? Yes. But similar just not immediate. I speak to twenty somethings at the IT firm I work at and they don't "know much". Sure they know how to find it but, they don't have it "on hand" in their minds.

 

So when you need to look something up now do you still go to your library or do you reach for your smart phone or boot up your laptop? The thing is you are obviously an intelligent person and probably well educated, but I think you are mistakenly thinking that every member of your generation is just like you. The majority of them are probably just as ignorant as the twenty somethings at your work place.

 

You have to admit that there is a difference in emphais today. I think depending more and more on technology is not a good thing. What are your kids going to do without google or calculators or computer? How will they beable to defend themselves in a debate if they can't look up what they need?

 

I cannot speak for where you live, because I don't know where that is. What I can tell you is that in the UK all children are graded on their ability to deliver a presentation to an audience. This may involve them having to research a topic, put together a presentation and deliver it to their peers. It may involve them having to speak about the work they have been doing in their classes. At the end of this process the rest of the class are invited to ask them question about their presentation. The ones asking the questions are graded on how well thought out and relevant the questions are. We call this a "Speaking and Listening Assessment" and it is done on a very regular basis.

 

We very rarely did things like this when I was at school. Probably because my teachers couldn't provide us with a set of laptops so as to spend a lesson or two researching a topic. My own subject is Mathematics. My school's IT system has a whole bank of resources that my students can access from home. It has exercise that they can use to practise their maths which marked automatically to give them instant feedback. I know of students I teach, who make regular use of it to build their skills and confidence.

 

The technology which you seem to think is turning our children into zombies is actually improving education massively.

 

As far as SW not being popular. How come there are so many refference to it in "pop culture" today? Do your kids that you teach not get all the references? Why is the clone wars television show aimed at that age group and not adults so popular?

 

I can't answer that one except to say that I can often understand cultural references to things I have no direct experience of simply because I keep hearing the same cultural references. My 71 year old mother knows who Beyonce is, though I doubt she has ever listened to one of her songs. One of the funniest experiences I have ever had at school was watching an episode of the Simpsons on e the last day of term in a room containing around 40 kids and about 5 or 6 adults. It was interesting to see that the adults and the kids both enjoyed it, but were laughing at totally different parts.

 

What I can say (and this is purely anecdotal) is that when this game was about to be released I asked my sixth form class (that's 17-18 year olds) if any of them were going to buy it. None were. We got talking about Star Wars in general and it turned out that out of a class of around 20, less than half of them had actually watched any of the Star Wars films. If I remember rightly, only one of them had seen all 6.

[bahdasz]

I am a fan of Star Wars as a whole but that rationale when used in a MMORPG just leads to 80% of the player base being Jeedai or Sith.....which gets old pretty quick imo.

 

Driz

 

Completely agree. I loved SWG but the idea of even having jedi in the game was distasteful to me. I ground out the hologrind for something to do, because I love the game, but I rarely even logged in the jedi afterward.

 

And for my part all the jedi running around may make it look like a Star Wars game... but TOR, to me, does not feel much at all like Star Wars.

Edited September 13, 2012 by bahdasz

[Sarfux]

Star Wars...............

 

THIS...IS...SPARTA!!!

 

*kicks into death pit*

[Reble-Dog-Squad]

The technology which you seem to think is turning our children into zombies is actually improving education massively.

 

The Effects of Modern Technology on Kids

 

You may not like it but technology is not going to make a better society.

Technology Making It Worse

 

More people have been made redundant from their jobs because of technology advancement than any other reason in history.

 

How many kids can spell, Laughing Out Loud - without a spell checker?

 

p.s these links are for the interest of reading only.

[Kahotep]

The Effects of Modern Technology on Kids

 

You may not like it but technology is not going to make a better society.

Technology Making It Worse

 

More people have been made redundant from their jobs because of technology advancement than any other reason in history.

 

How many kids can spell, Laughing Out Loud - without a spell checker?

 

p.s these links are for the interest of reading only.

 

I've read both of these articles now. I'd say the first one is simply describing who technology has changed the way children live and interact with each other and the world. It is not saying it is necessarily worse than the past, just different.

 

The second, on the other hand, is a rambling and pessimistic mixture of unsubstantiated speculation and typical "the sky is falling" style prophet-of-doomery. It's exactly the type of thing that the first article warns that kids could find on the internet and believe without questioning its credentials and reliability.

 

 

 

EDIT - We can all play the posting links to support our own views game. It's fun and easy too. A few seconds of Googling and , hey presto,;

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-is-Technology-Making-Life-Better?&id=451716

 

Edited September 13, 2012 by Kahotep

[BrotherJohn]

This game is not star wars not because its outside of episodes 1-6 (which if you were a real fan you would know there is way more than episdoes 1-6 some of which is better than 1-3 but i digress). This game is not star wars cause of one simple fact.....

 

THERE IS NO WARS GOING ON IN SWTOR TO IMPLY ITS STAR WARS.

 

Yeah caps all the way. If they want to seriously increase their player base to the point that the current active servers are so over populated they have to slowly bring others back online, well than GIVE THEM an MMO named swtor that has actual open world PvP and open space combat that gives us the real feel of these grand battles of the holy grail of star wars episode 1-6 (i am sorta choking when i say 1-3 but yeah).

 

Seriously BW if you even bother reading these threads, you need to add in open world PvP that has significance to the game.

*cheaper space travel

*special purchases on unique cartel shops located on specific planets.

*open space combat zones that when controlled give lower cost transport for that faction controlling

*buff that increases crafting slots

*unique armor designs only accessible while controlling those zones for short periods of time or specific locations on a planet.

*opening up content for those factions

*randomly spawning and moving not just standing there static patrols of opposite factions to toss a wrench in the mix while running world PvE missions.

*add in randomly spawning and de-spawning opposite faction NPCs that occur in heroic zones

*faster links between taxi points for factions

*closer integration of factions on all new planets and addition of level appropriate content for all exsisting planets that change the feel of the galactic conflict currently.

*less reliance upon war-zone crap. sure add them with content but as they are BS small they should not be considered new content at all but just supplemental dev having time cause they completed their current assignment.

 

yeah short list LOL but there is so so so so so much potential these these sorry BW but poor designers seem to want to implement. ops and flashpoints are cool and sure they need to keep coming to keep things fresh but you are not designing what you should be and your focusing on an old paradigm, raids as the means to an ultimate end for an mmo when you should clearly embrace and jump right into what you really have with this name. STAR WARS

Edited September 13, 2012 by BrotherJohn

[Urael]

I've read both of these articles now. I'd say the first one is simply describing who technology has changed the way children live and interact with each other and the world. It is not saying it is necessarily worse than the past, just different.

 

The second, on the other hand, is a rambling and pessimistic mixture of unsubstantiated speculation and typical "the sky is falling" style prophet-of-doomery. It's exactly the type of thing that the first article warns that kids could find on the internet and believe without questioning its credentials and reliability.

 

Perhaps it's different in the UK (as you described above). But, to be honest I just don't see many younger people actually "knowing" anything. As you have said they know "how to find information" but , their retention or ability to "apply" it is woefully lacking without the means to look it up. It's kind of hard to debate someone with an empty head. Also, when heads are empty they can latch on to all the popular memes and screeds of the day. That doesn't lead to one becoming an "informed" citizen.

[Kahotep]

Perhaps it's different in the UK (as you described above). But, to be honest I just don't see many younger people actually "knowing" anything. As you have said they know "how to find information" but , their retention or ability to "apply" it is woefully lacking without the means to look it up. It's kind of hard to debate someone with an empty head. Also, when heads are empty they can latch on to all the popular memes and screeds of the day. That doesn't lead to one becoming an "informed" citizen.

 

Maybe its the adults you have managed to surround yourself with, but I don't see that many adults who are particularly knowledgeable about anything also. You appear to have a pessimistic view of children and a very rose-tinted view of adults. In my job I get to meet the parents of the children I teach too. I can tell you that the bright, intelligent and knowledgeable children have bright, intelligent and knowledgeable parents. The dim ones, the slovenly ones, the ones who you can tell are not going to achieve much academically (despite my best efforts) are also exactly like their parents. It was ever thus.

[Lium]

Couldn't disagree more with the OP. One of the few things, I think, BW did right with this game was set in the Old Republic era. I personally find it to be a much more intriguing and interesting time period, as well as allowing the devs to be far more creative with new content.

 

The movie era is just way too restrictive. And one of the reasons SWG failed was because they had thousands of Jedi running around in an age there wasn't supposed to be any, except Luke. Plus, I already know what's going to happen in the movie era. There's no suspense or whatever.

 

Same reason I don't play LOTRO. It's the iconic era, sure, but gameplay-wise, give me the Old Republic any day of the week.

[Reble-Dog-Squad]

EDIT - We can all play the posting links to support our own views game. It's fun and easy too. A few seconds of Googling and , hey presto

 

As i am in a playing mood here you go.....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291927/Just-18-teachers-banned-40-years-despite-17-000-failing-staff-schools.html

 

Back on topic, i think some of you are missing the point, Star Wars is the movies and without the movies there would be no Star Wars. this is what people have come to know as Star Wars. If you was to ask anyone in the street what their favorite character is from Star Wars they would not quote KOTOR they would pick a character out of the movies.

All book and games that have followed are based on the theme of Star Wars as they are based in the Star Wars universe but that universe is has been created in the movies.

 

My personal views are that this game is very much Star Wars but i am trying to put forward an argument from the point of view of someone that does not believe that this game is Star Wars as they know it...i guess.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Reble-Dog-Squad

[Urael]

Back on topic, i think some of you are missing the point, Star Wars is the movies and without the movies there would be no Star Wars. this is what people have come to know as Star Wars. If you was to ask anyone in the street what their favorite character is from Star Wars they would not quote KOTOR they would pick a character out of the movies.

All book and games that have followed are based on the theme of Star Wars as they are based in the Star Wars universe but that universe is has been created in the movies.

 

My personal views are that this game is very much Star Wars but i am trying to put forward an argument from the point of view of someone that does not believe that this game is Star Wars as they know it...i guess.

 

Meh, that arguement is like saying that Star Trek is only The original Crew.

 

Star Wars is the EU.

 

The difference between Star Trek past the original crew vs. the EU is exposure. The EU is not as well known as the extendted Star Trek universe.

 

If LUCAS wouldn't keep such a tight rein on things and be more like Rodenberry was, Star Wars EU may have taken the same tact as Star Trek TNG and beyond.

[Kahotep]

As i am in a playing mood here you go.....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291927/Just-18-teachers-banned-40-years-despite-17-000-failing-staff-schools.html

 

.

 

You linked to the Daily Mail. In a sane society that would mean you automatically lose the argument and any credibility you have

 

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post about Star Wars. If this game was only being played by Star Wars fans who are conversant with the EU and also like MMOs, then it would have even fewer players than it has now.

[Liquidacid]

M

 

If LUCAS wouldn't keep such a tight rein on things and be more like Rodenberry was, Star Wars EU may have taken the same tact as Star Trek TNG and beyond.

 

eh no thank you... then SW canon would end up like Star Trek canon and well be almost non-existent... in ST nothing is canon except the live action shows and even then it is changed every other episode... sometime watching that show I wonder if the episode writers have ever even seen the show before because they seem to have no clue what happened in any of the previous episodes