1.4 Commandos (Concussive Force)

[silvercgull]

•Afterburners/Concussive Force: Rocket Punch/Stockstrike now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. The knockback previously caused by this skill generated enough Resolve that it was actually detrimental to the Mercenary/Commando’s ability to further escape the attacker.

 

The knockback was beneficial !! I used it to knock the attacker away who was then slowed and I backpeddaled while able to attack them. It is a valuable CC that is a primary tactic in 1 vs 1's. You are nerfing this ability because they are still near you and in 2 seconds they are attacking you again. We don't have force speed and a 2 second head start is a joke. DO YOU PLAY THE GAME AT ALL? Jesus you are truly clueless. I have leveled my commando and asked for no buffs or damage increase but you come along and as usual your "improvements" actually take away from what is working and add to what is not working.

 

Fix the Resolve, don't nerf an ability.

Edited September 5, 2012 by silvercgull

[Henu]

Yes but BW felt there wasn't enough stuns in this game, so they gave classes more stuns and the resolve bar is going to be harder to fill, so in other words less playing, more time being stunned.

 

As a Merc i want to keep my knock back too.

[bloopbleep]

It sounds like it's a root not a stun

[Henu]

It sounds like it's a root not a stun

 

which makes it more pointless.. root them rite near you and they can still DPS the crap out of you, and if you run, most of the other classes have an ability to close the gap, grapple, leap, force run...

[Ssfbistimg]

I retired my commando when 1.2 hit the live servers. definitely not bringing her back...Maybe as a combat medic, but since bioware is forcing all dps sages to go hybrid healer I dont see that happening. 1 healer is more then enough headache. Granted nothing will be different with my Balance Sage but I wont get any of the new cool Force speed bonuses or the new immune to interrupts by staying a Balance sage

[heechJunzi]

Not sure if you guys are paying attention or not. The point is, if you used stock-strike on a melee attacker (to deal damage as much as to knockback)... now you're filling up his resolve, and your other CC's might not help you with the escape (cryo + concussion).

 

Now, that issue is moot. You can stock-strike to deal damage + 4s to increase distance, and *still* have your other CC tools.

 

Ignore everything else, and just pretend that after you rooted your attacker with stock-strike.... you did nothing but back-pedal for 4s. Guess what, you'd now be much further away from your attacker than the 4m distance you were knocking them back in 1.2 (assuming you were fully talented in concussive force). AND you have the added advantage of still being able to cryo/concussion if you really need to increase distance.

 

By the way, I still love my assault commando in pvp.

Edited September 5, 2012 by heechJunzi

[Jherad]

Not sure if you guys are paying attention or not. The point is, if you used stock-strike on a melee attacker (to deal damage as much as to knockback)... now you're filling up his resolve, and your other CC's might not help you with the escape (cryo + concussion).

 

Now, that issue is moot. You can stock-strike to deal damage + 4s to increase distance, and *still* have your other CC tools.

 

Ignore everything else, and just pretend that after you rooted your attacker with stock-strike.... you did nothing but back-pedal for 4s. Guess what, you'd now be much further away from your attacker than the 4m distance you were knocking them back in 1.2 (assuming you were fully talented in concussive force). AND you have the added advantage of still being able to cryo/concussion if you really need to increase distance.

 

By the way, I still love my assault commando in pvp.

 

Complete and utter hogwash. Knockbacks are valuable because it doesn't matter if you are permanently snared, the incoming damage STOPS.

 

If managed correctly (ie. you didn't use conc charge, stockstrike and cryo all on top of each other) there were no problems with resolve. What stockstrike DID help with is against juggernauts and marauders when they snared you and started Ravage (interruptable only with a stun or kb).

 

Now when you get meleed, you might as well click off all your buffs, hobble over to an acid pit, bend over and take it. This change is an incredibly harsh nerf for PvP. In my opinion, combined with the reduction of cryo grenade to 10 meters, one of the worst nerfs that Gunnery Commandos have seen yet.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jherad

[Leiralei]

What this really does is nerf the ability that made commando vs commando always go to the gunnery due to the extra utility. Now with the interrupt, a healer commando can interrupt a grav spammer, said spammer can interrupt a healer, and assault spec is basically unchanged.

 

The root will help gunnery escape some melee situations where medic and assault were more mobile. Kolto slow will help the medic out for the same situations.

 

The changes to commando/merc in the patch notes are just about right IMO.

 

Might need some fine tuning later (bring up the usefulness of other dps skills to make fights more interesting than gravspam) but it places the trees more even among each other.

[Jherad]

The root will help gunnery escape some melee situations where medic and assault were more mobile. Kolto slow will help the medic out for the same situations..

 

In what fantasy land is a merc/commando getting away from a (still able to attack) meleer with a 2-4 second root?

 

Seriously. I'd like to go there.

 

News flash. Most people were rolling assault for PvP, not gunnery.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jherad

[Jherad]

Root then knockback. Even have enough time for grav round before knocking back.

 

1) Time for a grav round before knocking back? You realise you're in melee range right? (unless again you're under the misguided belief that you can actually run away in those 2-4 seconds)

 

2) Global Cooldown is 1.5 seconds. From hitting stockstrike, waiting 1.5 seconds, then hitting concussion, then waiting 1.5 seconds, you have 1 second of casting while they're rooted.

 

You've effectively traded in a knockback, and one of the few tools we had against ravages, for 1 extra second of casting. Not even enough time for a single grav round before the inevitable leap.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jherad

[Jherad]

Running away isn't really an option with gunnery commandos because you'll have to cast some time. Best to take it in the face and out dps your attacker.

 

Ok, so you can't run away... And you can't outdps a meleer who is in your face, because they'll shut you down with interrupts/stuns.

 

The root is mostly so they can't kite you so you can actually land a hit on them especially operatives where their burst comes mostly from behind.

 

Why would they want to kite you? They're a meleer, and you're not. YOU want to kite THEM, which this won't allow you to do...

 

P.S. I don't run in gunnery for PVP anymore because it's way too easy to be shutdown.

 

No offense, but it is fairly obvious you don't play gunnery.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jherad

[Altheran]

Running away isn't really an option with gunnery commandos because you'll have to cast some time. Best to take it in the face and out dps your attacker. The root is mostly so they can't kite you so you can actually land a hit on them especially operatives where their burst comes mostly from behind.

 

And it allows to use Pulse Cannon and Flame thrower at full duration without having the pain to turn to follow the target.

You also forget that Shadows/Assassins will get a buff on the talent that increase their "from-behind-attack" so it will also be useful against them

[Jherad]

Kiting allows them to keep wacking at you while interrupting your casts. Healers especially will utilize line of sight.

 

What are you talking about? You're not making any sense.

 

Again, how is a 2-4 second melee range root gonna help Gunnery commandos, in any way whatsoever?

 

And again, how is it worth losing a soft interrupt and knockback for?

 

Edit: Altheran - A meleer who allows you to cast a full duration pulse cannon is an idiot who you could beat by rolling your face over the keyboard anyway.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jherad

[-Kamakazi-]

It seems BW is out to get the only characters i play... They are nerfing my sage and now they want to kill off what is good about my commado... and dont give me this it helps you get a better head start bs (im talking to you BW) givin me a few seconds head start is allowing me to give the distance to the other players who can leap me.

[Swerto]

I backpeddaled

 

I stopped reading here.

 

Anyone who backpedals in PvP doesn't hold a valid opinion.

[bloopbleep]

It seems BW is out to get the only characters i play... They are nerfing my sage and now they want to kill off what is good about my commado... and dont give me this it helps you get a better head start bs (im talking to you BW) givin me a few seconds head start is allowing me to give the distance to the other players who can leap me.

 

by giving you a free instant heal and lowered force speed CD?

 

I'm not saying it's a "good" change, but I think the good players will be able to adapt to being required to aim their now-instant knock back

[stendarrs]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't the commando knockback essentially "interrupt" a master strike ? (which by the way is uninterruptable). So now instead of knocking a guy off the platform and into the pit/fire/acid on huttball, my commando is now even more useless because I get a 2 second root ? The root should be on top of the knockback. I'm sure everyone is going to say that's OP, but come on, this joke of an AC has gone on long enough. My knockback was a great way to defend a node as my last dying ability to buy my team a couple of seconds to recover. Now, they'll just be rooted while they cap the node?? Will this new craptacular ability even interrupt a cap?

 

Let's just compare a commando/merc to powertech/vanguard. How can anyone say that these classes bring anything remotely equal to the table? The only thing left for commandos in pvp is to be a gimped vanguard or the worst of 3 healing classes. I guess the healing buffs are our consolation prize for standing by this joke of an AC ? Thanks for the interrupt though, too bad I won't bother using it OR my commando any more

 

I seriously thought that BW would get commandos back in line so it wasn't such a joke. Can they at least ban grav spammers from PvP ? The gunnery tree does not belong in PvP. If you're a grav spammer and you're reading this, please at least try switching to assault class so you won't be quite as gimped. I was once addicted to grav spamming, that's right, I had it real bad man. People tried to have an intervention, but the grav round was too powerful. It called to me man, it had me totally addicted. Then one day after getting high on grav rounds, I decided I'd get real crazy and try me some assault spec. My first WZ I almost doubled my average damage in gunnery spec. I embraced my new addiction and never looked back. I now look sadly upon the grav spammers cause I know there's so much better out there for you guys. You just gotta let it go man, just let it go.....

 

Wow, I really started rambling there, maybe this is why my parents don't let me out of the basement during the day.

[DashaAdair]

Commandos are most effective when stationary. Giving us a solution that gives us a choice of leaving the guy stuck standing next to you while combat effective, and running away to keep him from htting you run counter to the core design of commandos. Knocking them back and keeping them in the line of fire needs to be a core design concept.

 

Gunslingers and commandos share some common elements the biggest of which is our best attacks come from being stationary. We have to keep them away or push them back while maintaining effective fire. I will gladly take the resolve hit to keep firing. If the problem is resolve generation, lower it. Why does it have to be more difficult then that.

 

When I'm stopping a cap or bomb plant I don't want a short interrupt with him capable of spamming for the cap. My knockback meant he had to work to get back and start again. You just announced you are making my job harder. With knockback I have control. With a pin, he effectively controls me. That's not helping.

[Macroecon]

The one thing you guys aren't considering is how the changes to RocketPunch/StockStrike interact with the other proposed changes in 1.4. In particular you need to consider the significant buffs they are giving to concealment dps. As a static, low mobility dps, you are going to be one of the primary targets for the newly buffed concealment dps. And guess what? You just lost one of your few abilities that can save your butt after you get said butt off the floor after they knock you down. Rooting the concealment oriented dps after you get up off the floor is worthless. You are going to be in a world of pain.

[Mechrophilia]

Your complaints about stockstrike sound reasonable to me, but I can't opine for certain as I am a combat medic and not a damage build. What I AM excited about though is the buffs to Kolto bomb. I don't think people are grasping just how powerful that ensnaring slow will be. It will only have marginal used for self preservation, but it will provide a heap of utility to your team on all of the pvp maps.

 

Its an aoe slow with a 30 meter range that heals your team and refreshes in less than 3 global cooldowns. THAT'S utility.

 

I may stop playing alts for a while and dust off my 'ol combat medic for a few games.

 

I disslike the cryogrenage range nerf though. Commando's don't need nerfs of any kind. I think everyone would agree with that.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Mechrophilia

[Dodgefella]

so lets see...knights will still have the pushback ability sorcs and counslars will still have the force push ability (forgot the name of it) and operatives will still have thier knockback also...why have another root when you have 2 mauraders beating the snot out of you while trying to defend a turret ...I loved concussive round especially useful in civil war from a turret you can knock back the healers so their LoS is taken away and maybe we are able to cap it...or in huttball knock them away from the ballcarrier so we can at least have a chance of scoring....thanks bioware for taking the 1 good thing from commando away....now the new fotm will be sorcs just so they can continue to spam thier lightning without us commandos at least interupting them...I dont need another root I have cyro grenade...and a mez that lasts for a minute why do i need another root...goofy if you ask me

[stendarrs]

I'm going to go on record and say that I believe I completely misread and/or misinterpreted the change. This change does not appear to remove the knockback, but only change the fact that you can spec in to the talent within the gunnery tree which knocks enemies back an additional 4M and use stockstrike as a knockback. So I still have my KB and the gunnery tree still shouldn't be used for PvP. I originally read this as "concussive charge" rather than "concussive force". My bad, I'll pay someone to beat me on the way home. Have a nice day.

[DashaAdair]

No you didn't misread it. It does remove the knockback and replace it with immobilize.

[Soljin]

Hate to be the negative guy here....But these changes made one thing clear...BW doesnt understand the Merc/Commando class dynamics in PvP at all...Since they "dont get it" This AC will always get short changed.

 

Heavy Armor and off heals have given them some skewed view that Merc/Commando has the ability to survive in melee range for atleast short duratioins...As shown by these changes...Electro dart range shortened to melee, attached a root to Stock Strike...also melee. This makes it clear they expect the AC to be in melee before they can attempt to control an opponent...People who play the AC know that Heavy Armor, and off heals wont save you from an insanely quick death in melee range. The AC has no potential to tank a melee AC at all...You have to start at range...stay at range, and finish the fight at range or you going to get Snared, rooted, controlled and killed in a heart beat.

 

Merc is a ranged class that must think tactically to stay at range to win a fight...Not wait till your hosed to drop a stun or a root...you've already given the advantage away.

 

This AC is going to always suffer until BW changes their concept of the AC to fit how it actually has to be played to succeed.

 

Honestly the best thing people can do for DPS Merc/Commando's is stop playing them.... Go heals or plpay another AC...Show BW the thing they understand...An overwhelmimgly low AC population metric.

 

I was waiting for this information to come out...and I really hope there are more changes coming, but I have lost interest in this AC. Juggernaut is basically my main now regardless..and It seems to be one of the AC's that bioware understands...Guess Darth Vader cleared it up for them.

 

I blame it on the Fett's...Bolba gets one shotted by a smuggler and falls in the Sarlac...Jango gets one shotted by Mace Windu...Clone Troopers are always getting one shotted by everyone....Now this AC stinks...Go figure.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Soljin

[Jherad]

Yeah, I just don't think their internal testers/designers play the class - certainly not competitively in PvP.

 

As any good PvP commando knows, once melee gets in your face, you are going to be permasnared almost immediately. Your two priorities are to do as much damage as possible BEFORE they get to you in melee, and to get them away from you as quickly as possible, as frequently as possible (they WILL get you back in range quickly, and repeatedly).

 

The root just doesn't make sense. Snared, I don't think you can even outrun a ravage from a rooted marauder (especially given its ridiculous range) - where before we had another knockback option to interrupt it. It deliberately harms our survivability against melee - the classes we are already weakest against.

 

The word I used when I first heard about this was 'baffled'. I am baffled.