Will anything actually retain customers?

[FourTwent]

Who would that be?

 

League of Legends. Ran on 1 map for how long? And gained players that entire time.

[Codek]

League of Legends. Ran on 1 map for how long? And gained players that entire time.

 

They did add new champions consistently along with character updates that often drastically changed the way the game was played. Basically every update made the game feel like you were playing on a new map in it's self since the game play elements were new and different from what it was a month ago.

 

Here on the other hand, we have bug fixes consistently but that changes very little as to the feel of gameplay. Everyone is still doing what they have been doing since 1.3 came out (aside from when they level an alt).

Edited September 6, 2012 by Codek

[Roechacca]

I didn't leave SWG, SWG left Me!

 

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

[Urael]

I didn't leave SWG, SWG left Me!

 

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

 

CU!

 

I wish I could find that Vid again!

[Hessen]

Playing an MMO is nothing like going to war and you are insulting military men and women the world over by even thinking to imply it.

 

It's just a freaking game.

 

I've seen plenty in MMOs, sure. Most good, some really bad, some really awesome. But the core of what I want is the same. I want content and features to be released on a schedule that makes the subscription fee worthwhile.

 

The comparison was OTT on purpose.

 

And my point still stands. Not very many (if any) players who have played MMOs for a long time have the same demands before they started MMOs to what they want now.

 

Certain features, certain types of preferred content etc.

[LordArtemis]

Well, it seems to be its a simple formula. Stop adding end game content as that has had probable zero effect. End game content simply burns up too quickly to justify the amount of dev time involved.

 

Repeatable "sandboxy" content is what's needed. More minigame and achievement type activities like I mentioned, more customization. Give players things to do, reasons to stay.

[Urael]

The comparison was OTT on purpose.

 

And my point still stands. Not very many (if any) players who have played MMOs for a long time have the same demands before they started MMOs to what they want now.

 

Certain features, certain types of preferred content etc.

 

I agree with this statement. But, there is a possiblity that it dosen't apply to all equally. Usually people change in some way over time and it's usually based on experience. One can not remain a newbie forever...at some point you turn into a vet!.

[CosmicKat]

SWG had some of the worst bugs in the industry that continued to persist even to the games close. Add to that the fact that a themepark leveling system was added haphazardly long after launch, and that the game did not launch with vehicles or JTL and you pretty much sum up what was wrong with that game.

 

For its time, before WoW it was a powerhouse. In fact subs were increasing prior to the CU/NGE. The update killed the game, period.

 

A powerhouse? It was a disaster from day 1. It took about a year for them to make anything in the game more exciting than prospecting for resources. PvE almost didn't exist. PvP rarely lasted 5 seconds. The only reason the sandbox elements took off was that there was nothing else to do in the game. Without the SW license it would likely have never been launched and if it had, it would have been outlived by the Matrix Online.

 

Great and fun game, but the graphics are pretty poor. Even with great features those graphics wear on you after a while.

 

The graphics in CoX blew the doors off of WoW. WoW had terribly dated graphics from day 1, as part of their evil plan to appeal to the non-PC gaming public who have hamster-powered boxes.

 

 

I think sandbox elements and customization options would appeal to the larger casual base. I have mentioned those specific items many time, and will not repeat them now.

 

End game will NOT retain customers IMO. Nor will it grow the base. It will only reduce the rate of loss temporarily until the new content is played out. Repeatable content is required.

 

Players need something to do, simply put.

 

Agree with these points wholeheartedly.

[LordArtemis]

A powerhouse? It was a disaster from day 1. It took about a year for them to make anything in the game more exciting than prospecting for resources. PvE almost didn't exist. PvP rarely lasted 5 seconds. The only reason the sandbox elements took off was that there was nothing else to do in the game. Without the SW license it would likely have never been launched and if it had, it would have been outlived by the Matrix Online.

 

The MxO comparison really doesn't apply IMO. But overall I think your disagreeing with an opinion that is more in line with yours, with exception to the sandbox elements. SOME of the sandbox elements took off IMO because they were superb elements. What SWG did right, like this game, it did better than any other game on the market.

 

The rest of the game was, of course, a bug ridden mess. It was only the appeal of those few features that kept anyone playing IMO. And for its time it did garner more than 300k subs which was quite a bit back then.

 

The graphics in CoX blew the doors off of WoW. WoW had terribly dated graphics from day 1, as part of their evil plan to appeal to the non-PC gaming public who have hamster-powered boxes.

 

I will agree that the graphics were better than WoW, but in WoW graphics didnt matter much at the time...people go where people are, and the game had one thing on most other games at that time...it was an easy game to pick up and play with a narrow learning curve.

[Hessen]

I will agree that the graphics were better than WoW, but in WoW graphics didnt matter much at the time...people go where people are, and the game had one thing on most other games at that time...it was an easy game to pick up and play with a narrow learning curve.

 

City of Heroes was far easier to pick up and play, there was no gear, no talent points, a ridiculously easy to use group finder tool and you could do nothing but press 1, 2, 3 all the way to 50.

 

It was purely because of the genre that it wasn't more popular IMO. Great game, and I wish more people had played and enjoyed it.

[LordArtemis]

City of Heroes was far easier to pick up and play, there was no gear, no talent points, a ridiculously easy to use group finder tool and you could do nothing but press 1, 2, 3 all the way to 50.

 

It was purely because of the genre that it wasn't more popular IMO. Great game, and I wish more people had played and enjoyed it.

 

I will not argue that CoH was a great game and it will be missed. It's loss leaves a large hole in the market IMO.

However, I never found it's mechanics very compelling, it always seemed a bit clunky....much like this game. WoW seemed much smoother in gameplay.

[Scritchy]

What will retain customers is a MMO that doesn't try to copy what people are fleeing from.

 

There is a reason EVE is still going strong while charging a sub fee. They didn't copy something else and try to make it work without understanding WHY it worked.

[Daekarus]

As some others have said, I think if they can get their feet under them and don't totally &%$@ up the F2P stuff, they will be able to keep 300k-ish paying subscribers. I'll probably stick around for at least a few months after F2P to see how it pans out and to get though another storyline or two. After that... I might have to find another sci-fi MMO (besides EVE) to play if things don't pick up. I've said it before, I will never forgive EA for forcing Bioware to release before they were ready...

[Styxx]

As some others have said, I think if they can get their feet under them and don't totally &%$@ up the F2P stuff, they will be able to keep 300k-ish paying subscribers. I'll probably stick around for at least a few months after F2P to see how it pans out and to get though another storyline or two. After that... I might have to find another sci-fi MMO (besides EVE) to play if things don't pick up. I've said it before, I will never forgive EA for forcing Bioware to release before they were ready...

 

I think that between 300k and 500k is a realistic approach. It MIGHT go as high as 1 mil IF they pull some good content and actually manage to give us more end game that isn`t "reroll, please". Lots of ifs

 

On the other hand, they might end up with mass cancellations from "subs", because raising an alt is free. So, if the user is smart, it can move stuff the alts might need before sub finishes, then sit and freeload for a loooong time.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Styxx

[Blackardin]

League of Legends. Ran on 1 map for how long? And gained players that entire time.

 

League of Legends is a shooter. It is basically arena PvP. It did update frequently, and it is FTP. I was speaking of the fully immersive MMORPG genre. I understand what you are trying to indicate, but I have to keep falling back on the history of this genre. No MMORPG has ever released polished, or even close. Some have tried, but like, Horizons, they succumbed to budget and collapsed.

 

I believe that this game had the potential to become a very, very good game. It simply never got off the ground. Players wanted a polished, finished MMORPG, with full end game content right out of the box. When it did not happen, players left.The plan was crushed and resources have been directed to that issue ever since, from server mergers to FTP.

 

The player base here is like the magicians helper that though he could master magic simply by virtue of playing. From where I'm sitting the players, since about three months in, have directed, by their actions, this situation we see now....and the future alterations to the entire genre.

[LordArtemis]

To push 1 mil they are going to likely need sandbox content and customization. The current themepark model will not likely support any serious sub increase based on design cost.

 

The content will just not come quick enough to satiate the populace.

[Styxx]

League of Legends is a shooter. It is basically arena PvP. It did update frequently, and it is FTP. I was speaking of the fully immersive MMORPG genre. I understand what you are trying to indicate, but I have to keep falling back on the history of this genre. No MMORPG has ever released polished, or even close. Some have tried, but like, Horizons, they succumbed to budget and collapsed.

 

I believe that this game had the potential to become a very, very good game. It simply never got off the ground. Players wanted a polished, finished MMORPG, with full end game content right out of the box. When it did not happen, players left.The plan was crushed and resources have been directed to that issue ever since, from server mergers to FTP.

 

The player base here is like the magicians helper that though he could master magic simply by virtue of playing. From where I'm sitting the players, since about three months in, have directed, by their actions, this situation we see now....and the future alterations to the entire genre.

 

Without trying to provide a rebuttal, or to try and negate what you said.. just offering a different perspective.

 

I, as a player, am slightly upset because their 5th pillar, VO, sits in the way of what I see as progress, or game features - species. Time and time again we have been told how it would be strange for certain species. So, we can`t play Jawas, or Wookiees, or Droids.

 

Furthermore, their choice of gear limits the selection even more : Togruta, Nautolan and any strange head species.

 

List can go on and on, but I would have liked more gameplay and less "sugar coat", because, to a basic level, this is what VO is. We still have the same old "Go to X place and bring me Y tokens, or kill me 25 Z mobs". Text can explain just as well as a cutscene. It`s a nice "sugar coat", but it took time from the gameplay.

 

I did not expect a miracle. But I DID expect them to give me a MMO, not an online RPG. Because it simply doesn`t have the quality a RPG should have and it never will. I am still hoping they wake up and realise this is a MMO and give us MMO content.

[LordArtemis]

Well, for certain species they could simply disable the armor piece appearance, like Trandosians used to have for SWG...and I think it might be the same way here with respect to feet.

 

If a species has a weird head and most helmets wont work they simply disable helmet appearance for that species.

[Styxx]

Well, for certain species they could simply disable the armor piece appearance, like Trandosians used to have for SWG...and I think it might be the same way here with respect to feet.

 

If a species has a weird head and most helmets wont work they simply disable helmet appearance for that species.

 

Hood up types of armors will be an issue as well . Imagine a Togruta with a hood

[-Slaughterhouse-]

ATTENTION SPAN is the the Killer.

 

The Cure is DEPTH.

 

SWG lasted for so long, because of DEPTH,even when content was lacking.

WOW has lasted so long for the same reason, even though i hate the looks of the game.

 

TOR has no DEPTH, to hold your attention, and the attention spans of modern players.

 

Once you master 1 or 2 classes, they pretty much feel the same.

The storylines are great, but arcs are similiar enough, to feel tired, by time you get to 3rd class leveling.

The Scenery is Awesome, till you get this,i'm in the matrix, feeling.

Space is as interesting as an android app game for space.

No Guild tools

No places to call your own(guild cities,player cities, player housing) The ship is a poor attempt.

Too much emphasis on grind(Blackhole dailies,Pvp dailies,Weeklies,ect) Deja-vu or the matrix resetting?

 

SWG felt like a place you own, TOR feels like a cheap rental.

 

P.S. I really don't think any games, no matter their quality, will last more than 4 months, if game companies continue to use stockmarket standards, of quarterly increases. The public just doesn't have the attention span to keep the same game going, for years, anymore. They want that first quarter profit, every quarter, with an increase, not a decrease. Todays economics dictate a sequel, revamp, every 2 years or even once a year. Modern warfare 2, then MW3, or left4dead4,ect ect.

Edited September 7, 2012 by -Slaughterhouse-

[Moaky]

The only MMO that pushes out content like this is Trion's Rift. there is an event every other month or so, so many that it actually irritates some folks. people will come and go during MMO'S some for raids / dungeons / FP'S and some for xpacks.

 

What retains my sub is the story / lore. my only beef i guess if you could call it that is it is not a sandbox, there is no single player dailies, or real reason to go back to the planets after you hit 50. which is sad because of all the work they put into it. dont get me wrong the heroics are fine but having regular single player dailies / hubs gives players a convieniece of doing them any time they want to even when other player dont.

 

A game that used to kick content was EQ, and it still does somewhat till this very day. We were getting expansions every 6 months or so nearly 10 yrs ago. Asherons Call used to give folks little upgrades reguarly as well, although in AC's case they didnt charge for them.

 

 

Folks complain if a company wants to hit them with expansions reguarly, but that is the only way to truly keep content rolling. The stuff doesnt get produced for free.

 

 

I am more than willing to pay for an expansion every 6 to 8 months. In TOR terms, you would be talking a new planet with possibly a new race, extension of story(maybe a half chapter), and lots of single player/group quests and operations. More crafter skills and/or player skills as well. A level increase may be involved.

 

EQ is getting ready to kick out their 19th expansion. I hope TOR can get on that type of track. Although like I said, some folks will have a hissy fit about having to pay for true expansions.

[Styxx]

EQ is getting ready to kick out their 19th expansion. I hope TOR can get on that type of track. Although like I said, some folks will have a hissy fit about having to pay for true expansions.

 

I would, because I intend to keep a sub. And I won`t have ANY reason to keep it, if I don`t get SOMETHING for it. And I don`t qualify access to my own earned stuff a big achievement. I strongly believe that I should get any future expansion for free, as long as I have a sub.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Styxx

[Darth-Rammstein]

A game that used to kick content was EQ, and it still does somewhat till this very day. We were getting expansions every 6 months or so nearly 10 yrs ago. Asherons Call used to give folks little upgrades reguarly as well, although in AC's case they didnt charge for them.

 

 

Folks complain if a company wants to hit them with expansions reguarly, but that is the only way to truly keep content rolling. The stuff doesnt get produced for free.

 

 

I am more than willing to pay for an expansion every 6 to 8 months. In TOR terms, you would be talking a new planet with possibly a new race, extension of story(maybe a half chapter), and lots of single player/group quests and operations. More crafter skills and/or player skills as well. A level increase may be involved.

 

EQ is getting ready to kick out their 19th expansion. I hope TOR can get on that type of track. Although like I said, some folks will have a hissy fit about having to pay for true expansions.

 

I don't mind paying for expansions but smaller updates such as Makeb better not cost subscribers extra, that's just shady business if they do that. I have my doubts about expansions though, this game seems to have a hard time rolling new content out and having giant gaps of time in between them. I would love to see a big expansion in the future though for sure, hopefully the games f2p status doesn't cheapen the quality though.

[Goretzu]

A game that used to kick content was EQ, and it still does somewhat till this very day. We were getting expansions every 6 months or so nearly 10 yrs ago. Asherons Call used to give folks little upgrades reguarly as well, although in AC's case they didnt charge for them.

 

 

Folks complain if a company wants to hit them with expansions reguarly, but that is the only way to truly keep content rolling. The stuff doesnt get produced for free.

 

 

I am more than willing to pay for an expansion every 6 to 8 months. In TOR terms, you would be talking a new planet with possibly a new race, extension of story(maybe a half chapter), and lots of single player/group quests and operations. More crafter skills and/or player skills as well. A level increase may be involved.

 

EQ is getting ready to kick out their 19th expansion. I hope TOR can get on that type of track. Although like I said, some folks will have a hissy fit about having to pay for true expansions.

 

 

There's two issues:

 

 

1. Makeb was supposed to be FREE, they've changed their mind, but that doens't mean everyone should therefore be happy.

 

2. In the F2P/cashshop model if you're paying a subs really you should be able to get expansions for "free", even if it's saving up and buying them with in-game currency (as in LOTRO). So far it is unclear as to whether this will be possible with SWTOR. Yes, subs are getting some initial coins, but what happens after that is unclear.

[Yogol]

Personally, my point of view is simple: if they arise the level-cap, I am willing to pay for it. else, I'm not.

 

That's the way is was done by the MMOs that I ever played.

 

And, despite all their short-commings, I seriously doubt that they would charge subs for content without a cap-raise.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Yogol