Will anything actually retain customers?

[DarthTHC]

I don't believe you.

 

I was with WoW for the better part of 7 years. SWG from the day it opened until NGE. Asheron's Call for ~5 years. I liked this game better than all of them. Believe or do not; it does not matter. *shrug*

 

 

Do we have to have the revenue talk again?

 

Riiiiiight... because we should only expect what the 475 page TOS & EULA say and ignore what the game's managers and EA VP's say about the value we should expect for our subscription dollars?

 

 

I don't see how either of those replies are on topic though... the topic being will anything retain subscribers. I'm actually a fairly easy subscriber to retain... for a subscription based game that delivers on par with other subscription based games. This one, obviously, does not even come close to WoW and Rift, to name one much bigger and one (supposedly) much smaller.

[Urael]

Riiiiiight... because we should only expect what the 475 page TOS & EULA say and ignore what the game's managers and EA VP's say about the value we should expect for our subscription dollars?

 

Nothing to do with the TOS & EULA vs. "some marketing spin" or "dev misspeak". It's a matter of simple economics. Not my rules, just the way things are. I buy a service and that's it. I don't get to have a say over what the company does with my money after I give it to them. It's the way of things. Fact. I didn't make the rules.

 

I don't see how either of those replies are on topic though... the topic being will anything retain subscribers. I'm actually a fairly easy subscriber to retain... for a subscription based game that delivers on par with other subscription based games. This one, obviously, does not even come close to WoW and Rift, to name one much bigger and one (supposedly) much smaller.

 

Your assumptions derailed the thread we sought to bring it back.

 

Actually it does come close. It is on par for the most part. If you consider content delivery schedules. Slower than rift but faster than WoW. The consumer base has changed. They are capriciouos and not as forgiving do to low attention spans.

[Goretzu]

New and different are not in Blizzard's vocabulary. Whatever they are working on is doomed to failure because they have no successful template from which to copy this time. There is no new EQ (WoW), no Gauntlet (Diablo), or Dune (War/Starcraft).

 

Yeah, Blizzard have been studiously avoiding making WoW 2 for 3-5 years now, and I think that is why, they know it too.

[Goretzu]

From the complete and total ravaging of the canon (hand everyone a lightsaber and a Millennium falcon screw the fact that is in the rebellion era time line) To the overwhelming majority of players who would loudly proclaim “I hate SW but love SWG” To the developers (confirmed by Raph Koster) who said: who cares if it sucks it’s star wars that game wasn’t a SW MMO.

 

Twilek S&M ERP guilds do not a Star Wars MMO make.

 

 

 

SWTOR has almost nothing to do with the films though.

[Goretzu]

I don't believe you.

 

Well the content rate the promised is very, very different to what they delievered.

 

They've promised again for F2P........ but we'll have to see.

[CosmicKat]

From the complete and total ravaging of the canon (hand everyone a lightsaber and a Millennium falcon screw the fact that is in the rebellion era time line) To the overwhelming majority of players who would loudly proclaim “I hate SW but love SWG” To the developers (confirmed by Raph Koster) who said: who cares if it sucks it’s star wars that game wasn’t a SW MMO.

 

Twilek S&M ERP guilds do not a Star Wars MMO make.

 

"Who cares if it sucks it's Star Wars?"

 

I think this has been the Lucasfilm logo since 1984.

[Urael]

"Who cares if it sucks it's Star Wars?"

 

I think this has been the Lucasfilm logo since 1984.

 

Agreed. The Phantom Menace wants to say hello!

[Fozziwig]

In short: no.

[Dein_Cathair]

People want PvP like in WAR, but they left WAR.

 

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

 

People want community and character customisation like in CoH, but they left CoH.

 

People want the amount of end-game content of WoW, but they left WoW.

 

So even if SWTOR was some ultimate MMO force, bringing together all of these features together and adding in some fully voiced class stories. Would it actually retain a larger amount of people for very long?

 

Biggest hook I've ever seen was housing in UO. I even had comments from "Leilo" the CM at the time, when I posted pics on the old official forums. It kept people playing because if you unsubed your house would decay ( and all items inside it). It kept me an active sub for 10 years even tho I rarely played.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Dein_Cathair

[Blackardin]

Will anything actually retain customers?

 

No. The genre is doomed.

 

The only solution would be to hand hold players from start to finish, passing out content as fast as people can absorb it one time and move on.....all for the price of less then a cup of coffee.

 

Simply impossible to accomplish and the unsatisfied, demanding more and more, are ending the genre.

[Dein_Cathair]

No. The genre is doomed.

 

The only solution would be to hand hold players from start to finish, passing out content as fast as people can absorb it one time and move on.....all for the price of less then a cup of coffee.

 

Simply impossible to accomplish and the unsatisfied, demanding more and more, are ending the genre.

 

That is what some game companies would like you to believe. It's the company line with some, but the truth is, some games do have good player reterntion based on good design.

[LordArtemis]

People want PvP like in WAR, but they left WAR.

 

Well, most say only two realms (same problem here), too much CC and class imbalance killed that game despite the superior PVP.

 

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

 

SWG had some of the worst bugs in the industry that continued to persist even to the games close. Add to that the fact that a themepark leveling system was added haphazardly long after launch, and that the game did not launch with vehicles or JTL and you pretty much sum up what was wrong with that game.

 

For its time, before WoW it was a powerhouse. In fact subs were increasing prior to the CU/NGE. The update killed the game, period.

 

People want community and character customisation like in CoH, but they left CoH.

 

Great and fun game, but the graphics are pretty poor. Even with great features those graphics wear on you after a while.

 

People want the amount of end-game content of WoW, but they left WoW.

 

54 fundamental changes to the Warlock class since launch. 54. Thats more changes that most other games entire class structure combined. At one point I was relearning how to play my class every month. The absolute epitome of ridiculousness.

 

So even if SWTOR was some ultimate MMO force, bringing together all of these features together and adding in some fully voiced class stories. Would it actually retain a larger amount of people for very long?

 

I think sandbox elements and customization options would appeal to the larger casual base. I have mentioned those specific items many time, and will not repeat them now.

 

End game will NOT retain customers IMO. Nor will it grow the base. It will only reduce the rate of loss temporarily until the new content is played out. Repeatable content is required.

 

Players need something to do, simply put.

[Tiberians]

People want PvP like in WAR, but they left WAR.

 

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

 

People want community and character customisation like in CoH, but they left CoH.

 

People want the amount of end-game content of WoW, but they left WoW.

 

So even if SWTOR was some ultimate MMO force, bringing together all of these features together and adding in some fully voiced class stories. Would it actually retain a larger amount of people for very long?

 

War---Never played or heard of it.

SWG--Played until it was shut down. Would still be playing today if it was still running.

WoW--Never liked this game. reminded me to much of EQ2

COH- not played.

SWTOR- Struggled to keep playing. Bored with WZ's. Open World PvP for me would go a long ways to keep me interested in playing. Warzones ( in my Opinion) get boring, and repitive.

[Blackardin]

That is what some game companies would like you to believe. It's the company line with some, but the truth is, some games do have good player reterntion based on good design.

 

Who would that be?

[ZirusZero]

We need more fluff. The little things keep players happy.

[DarthTHC]

Today's MMORPG player is capricious. TBH, not sure any company is going to be able to make "the MMORPG" that will satisfy the current customer base.

 

This is a load of crap.

 

Today's MMO players are the same, for the most part, as the MMO players from years ago. I'm still the same player I was way back when Asheron's Call was the top dog. I'm the same player I was when I started playing WoW 8 years ago and quit 7 years later.

 

I'm not capricious. I simply want features and content to be added at a pace that is worth my $15/month... and I do not want a pay-to-win cash shop. Rift can do it with half the subscriptions of SWTOR (or less than half, depending on which fan-boy is giving the SWTOR number). Why can't EA do it?

[LordArtemis]

We need more fluff. The little things keep players happy.

 

This, simple and sweet. Players need things to do. Sandboxy content would provide that. I'll bet anything on it.

 

Want to keep customers? Let players change their look after creation, allow color changes to ALL armor, allow all armor to be converted to orange armor (you would lose stats in favor of empty slots), allow appearance creation options for companions (with a toggle to disable if desired).

 

Make our personal ships our housing, allowing us to decorate them inside and out as we see fit, SWG style. Add questable and or drop decorations, achievements and trophies we can put in our ship.

 

Put turrets on our ships, allow us to group and go out and run space missions with my group members manning the turrets, or just let them jump in their ships and join me in the pipe.

 

Give us a BF2 style persistent space battleground with both open flight PVE and PVP objectives and the ability to land on ships and go after objectives on foot, man turrets, take the bridge to take over the ships, etc.

 

Create a supplemental questing system similar to black hole dailies for PVE class and companion play. Using a terminal interface, general droid or alien dialog and canned dialog from existing VO player responses create randomly generated listings with a smattering of VO to spice them up. Rewards could be orange or social armor, or class specific rewards as well as companion affection or gifts.

 

The missions would allow smugglers to smuggle, BHs to seek out bounties, Troopers to engage in specific objectives, Agents to engage in espionage or sabotage, Jedi and Sith to seek out rivals to turn or destroy them.

 

Give us the ability to race our vehicles competitively on courses, against other players and npc opponents. Give us pazzak games to play, cards to collect. Put in random turret and space combat encounters when flying to space combat missions or planets (ability to toggle off if desired).

 

Let us stay in the hangar in our ships. Give us the ability to land on a planet using the console instead of walking out the door.

 

Give us a whole set of missions inside our vessel...boarding parties, repair missions, escape, etc.

 

Give us the ability to craft Orange gear personally, with the ability to crit adding a bonus to the mods. Allow slicers to improve non-orange gear stats.

 

All of these things would go a LONG way, IMO, to retaining current customers by giving them something to do.

[Blackardin]

This is a load of crap.

 

Today's MMO players are the same, for the most part, as the MMO players from years ago. I'm still the same player I was way back when Asheron's Call was the top dog. I'm the same player I was when I started playing WoW 8 years ago and quit 7 years later.

 

I'm not capricious. I simply want features and content to be added at a pace that is worth my $15/month... and I do not want a pay-to-win cash shop. Rift can do it with half the subscriptions of SWTOR (or less than half, depending on which fan-boy is giving the SWTOR number). Why can't EA do it?

 

I think that he was speaking metaphorically.....that there are more players like you now then there are of us. ;p

[Cupelixx]

People want PvP like in WAR, but they left WAR.

 

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

 

People want community and character customisation like in CoH, but they left CoH.

 

People want the amount of end-game content of WoW, but they left WoW.

 

So even if SWTOR was some ultimate MMO force, bringing together all of these features together and adding in some fully voiced class stories. Would it actually retain a larger amount of people for very long?

 

People want a game that isn't managed by clueless people, has frequent content/fix updates, and runs well on high end systems like SWTO--oh, wait.

[Karquile]

I'm not capricious. I simply want features and content to be added at a pace that is worth my $15/month... and I do not want a pay-to-win cash shop. Rift can do it with half the subscriptions of SWTOR (or less than half, depending on which fan-boy is giving the SWTOR number). Why can't EA do it?

 

Because they paid for a much bigger game than the subscription model will sustain. SWTOR cost a lot more to develop than RIFT, and it costs more to extend and improve. They think (well, somebody thinks) they can make a lot more money selling Santa hats and Warzone passes to returning players. We'll see.

[DarthTHC]

Because they paid for a much bigger game than the subscription model will sustain. SWTOR cost a lot more to develop than RIFT, and it costs more to extend and improve. They think (well, somebody thinks) they can make a lot more money selling Santa hats and Warzone passes to returning players. We'll see.

 

Sunk costs are sunk. They have no bearing in decisions moving forward, in any business worth a bent di...me. What SWTOR cost to develop is irrelevant to the go-forward strategy.

 

The notion that SWTOR is more expensive to update than Rift because it cost more to develop is also hogwash. I can develop something very quick and dirty and cheaply but it would be a ***** to maintain and extend. Or I can spend a bit more and make it very extensible. That's the way things work in software. It's not like we're hand-making Lamborghinis vs. mass producing Fords. Generally smaller budget stuff is harder to extend and bigger budget stuff should be easier because you put that thought into it ahead of time. And EA apparently did this as evidenced by developers saying they liked the Hero engine because of how easy it made it to add stuff and VPs saying things like the F2P games can't add content at the same sort of pace they can.

 

The fact that Rift is running circles around SWTOR in terms of content and feature release pace should make the EA team absolutely livid with embarrassment. But it doesn't seem to. Instead, they want to sell us the Santa hats you mentioned.

[Urael]

Instead, they want to sell us the Santa hats you mentioned.

 

I want pirate gear. Maybe an eye patch. Ooooh a parrot. Yes definately a parrot!!!

 

[Hessen]

I'm the same player I was when I started playing WoW 8 years ago and quit 7 years later.

 

I don't believe you. I don't believe you can play an MMO for that long and not change.

 

It's like going to war for 7 years, you want to believe you're the same when you return home, but really you've seen too much.

[simplius]

We need diverse game play, along with all those features the op brought up, our toons need to feel like they live in the world and not just playing through it, content is great but we need different types of content, not just another war zone or another op this is not new content just more of what we already have, can't keep adding ferris wheels to the theme park and expect people to keep coming back the park over an over, we need some play grounds and roller coasters.. I really think the f2p model is more of a band aid than a fix for the sub lose problems, f2p folks can get bored as well. Scripted content can only get you so far.

 

The trends in mmo's and online games have changed so much since game like wow and swg launched, for one there are tons of games to play now and with the transient nature of mmo'ers these days maybe the companies just make content to satisfy the nomads of today's mmo's.

 

I did read some research about a year ago that said modern mmo players only stay in an mmo for 3 to 6 months, sure seems like the mmo industry makes these games with that in mind these days, which is sad, I like to stay in an mmo for years and have done so in the past. But find the new generation of mmo's does not give me the feeling that my toon lives in the world, just playing through.

 

i hate to say it: the hutt is speaking the truth,,versatility and immersion in the world,,this is the recipe that has kept "that game " on the top for years,,but now they have dropped it,,mists of pandaria will prolly bury WoW

STO? been there, done that,,RIFT? ugly and no epic music,,,TERA? very beautiful, but too intense for casual players

my biggest beef with this game is the grindy combat and lack of freedom and content,,i am practically on rails, both on ground and in space,,im in a big universe and have my own spaceship, but i can still only quest on 2 planets

not much freedom there

[DarthTHC]

I don't believe you. I don't believe you can play an MMO for that long and not change.

 

It's like going to war for 7 years, you want to believe you're the same when you return home, but really you've seen too much.

 

Playing an MMO is nothing like going to war and you are insulting military men and women the world over by even thinking to imply it.

 

It's just a freaking game.

 

I've seen plenty in MMOs, sure. Most good, some really bad, some really awesome. But the core of what I want is the same. I want content and features to be released on a schedule that makes the subscription fee worthwhile.