Gunslinger vs Sniper damage?

[Rikiu]

I'm looking to roll a Gunslinger but I'm curious how it's damage compares to that of a Sniper. Every tooltip I've looked at puts the damage of certain Sniper attacks higher than their Gunslinger counterparts (Followthrough vs Trickshot). I'm sure this difference is down to our two weapons against the snipers one, but can anyone explain if the damage is the same?

[Divino]

I was curious about this topic myself. I have a level 50 sniper but I did want to try Gunslinger. Is the damage equal or for some reason is it unbalanced? I was worried especially about Takedown vs Quick Draw. Has anyone tested the numbers? Thanks.

[TheHarvester]

I'm guessing the tooltip only reflects the damage numbers for the mainhand weapon for the GS. Since Snipers use a single mainhand, the full damage number is accurately listed.

[Synavix]

Although I have not done the math myself, the way it was designed to work is that at accuracy cap Snipers and Gunslingers will average out to the same overall damage output. Like was stated, the reason Sniper abilities have a higher base damage is because they do not have an offhand. A gunslinger will have the chance to hit with their offhand a fraction of the time for a fraction of the amount of damage in addition to what their mainhand hits for. You'll see larger numbers as a Sniper, but fewer.

 

The only real difference (and this accounts for a very, very small portion of extra/less damage) would be at an accuracy that's above/below cap. Below accuracy cap the Sniper's damage will generally be slightly higher, or at least more consistent. Any extra accuracy above the cap, however, is all but useless to Snipers, while a Gunslinger will still be able to take advantage of more frequent offhand hits (but still not enough to warrant stacking accuracy over another stat).

 

If anything, a Gunslinger might have the potential to do slightly higher DPS with good RNG and by getting more use out of Illegal Mods than a Sniper does, assuming we're talking PvE. In PvP a Sniper can probably use it to penetrate defensive cooldowns better, because they don't have to worry about offhand miss chance.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Synavix

[Divino]

Here is what I find odd though, let's use an example. Takedown does a max damage of 4,089. Now take Quickdraw, which is a max of 1,195. Even if you double that weapon damage for the two pistols, it is nowhere near Takedown. I tried to find some videos of Gunslingers on youtube but none were really updated to this current patch and HD so I could see numbers clearly with actually geared opponents.

 

Has anyone done damage tests for the mirror skills?

[TheHarvester]

I regularly hit 4-5k crits on Quickdraw on my GS in PvP. The base damage is what you're looking at.

[Divino]

I know its the base damage but its the modifier I was curious about. The reason I ask is my Sniper is not well geared, just decently, and she can hit for over 5k with a takedown. I was just worried because an execute is such an important skill. But I'm trying to help even out the ratio of Pub to Imp on my server so I really wanted Gunslinger, I just don't want to nerf myself is all. I could always roll Scoundrel if I have to, I would prefer Gunslinger though.

 

Can anyone recommend some recent hd pvp movies? That would be super helpful. Thanks.

[Synavix]

Here is what I find odd though, let's use an example. Takedown does a max damage of 4,089. Now take Quickdraw, which is a max of 1,195. Even if you double that weapon damage for the two pistols, it is nowhere near Takedown. I tried to find some videos of Gunslingers on youtube but none were really updated to this current patch and HD so I could see numbers clearly with actually geared opponents.

 

Has anyone done damage tests for the mirror skills?

 

Tooltip numbers (and thus torhead ability numbers) are affected by gear and stats, and are apparently wildly different on that site for some reason. Looking at my personal tooltips on both my Gunslinger and Sniper, in unbuffed PvE gear I'm at about 3300 (Sniper) and 3600 (Gunslinger), so aside from my gearsets being slightly different (the sniper is in campaign, but missing MH/OH and relics) the numbers do in fact come out about the same. I can assure you that a Gunslinger is not gimped in comparison.

 

Edit: As for hitting large numbers as a Sniper, you *will* see larger single numbers. The scrolling combat text is far less than optimal in this game, which is partially to blame, but Snipers will hit for larger single hits whereas a Gunslingers is broken up into 2 hits (when both hit). I suppose if there is any difference here, it's only that a Sniper can hit their 2.5k and 5k single hit medals more reliably.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Synavix

[Divino]

Thank you for the information. I had no idea the websites did not have proper numbers for abilities. I appreciate you posting.

[Synavix]

Thank you for the information. I had no idea the websites did not have proper numbers for abilities. I appreciate you posting.

 

Yeah I did a double-take after looking at those, not sure how they tried to balance those numbers but seems to be a pretty big oversight. Glad to help.

[Groncho]

Here is what I find odd though, let's use an example. Takedown does a max damage of 4,089. Now take Quickdraw, which is a max of 1,195. Even if you double that weapon damage for the two pistols, it is nowhere near Takedown. I tried to find some videos of Gunslingers on youtube but none were really updated to this current patch and HD so I could see numbers clearly with actually geared opponents.

 

Has anyone done damage tests for the mirror skills?

 

is mirrored

[warultima]

Actually the overall damage of the 2 ACs are the same (mathematical wise proven on sithwarrior.com).

Gunslinger has higher burst potential than snipers however.

 

Assuming both MH attacks from Sniper and Gunslinger hits. When gunslinger's offhand connects (hits) gunslinger will deal MORE (not less) damage than the similarly geared sniper could ever deal. However when Slinger's OH misses their MH damage will be slightly lower than the Sniper's attack damage.

 

Gunslinger's HIGHER damage is balanced by higher chance to miss on their OH attacks.

 

This difference actually changes item stats a bit. As slinger will overall deal more and more damage as they gain more accuracy as it's nearly impossible to push OH chance to hit over 100% with item along. However here's where Gunslinger's absolute ADVANTAGE over snipers comes in. Assuming both AC is at the traditional accuracy cap of 105% chance to hit on MH weapon. Talents and cooldowns like Illegal Mods that gives a MASSIVE accuracy bonus of 30% and talents like Sharpshooter that literally gives ZERO advantages and damage improvement to Sniper will push Slinger's OH chance to hit close and close to 100%. Basically when Illegal mod is popped (and accuracy talents are taken) Slinger is passively better than a "Optimize Geared" Sniper indefinitely as long as some kind of +accuracy effects are present.

 

Sniper is the one that gets hosed with how the existing mirrored abilities work (e.g Illegal mods 30% accuracy bonus is meaningless to sniper but huge and extraordinary buff to slinger's OH on top of everything else that CD gives).

 

The ONLY thing Sniper has over Gunslinger is they are easier to score 5k crit medal. Ambush = Aimed Shot (5001 damage of Ambush gives a 5k medal, 4999 Main Hand Hit of Aimed Shot with a 1500 Offhand crits will not give you the medal even tho you clearly did more damage with the same attack).

 

Snipers have superficial advantages (easiness to get 5k medal) while Gunslingers have practical AND BURST (burst is king of PvP) advantage over snipers. As well as 2 chances per attack to apply some of the most important effects like leg shot and vital shot.

 

tl;dr

As soon as both ACs hits the accuracy cap (105%), Gunslingers begins to out scale sniper as gear gets better and better. This holds true even if the gunslinger stops to take more accuracy just like the sniper would (and typically start to stack Power) but the talents and CDs like illegal mods will still carry gunslinger much further than it will take snipers. Slingers is better sniper at high end level MIGHT be an oversight on DEV's part however.

Edited September 17, 2012 by warultima

[Synavix]

Of all the differences between the mirrors, my two biggest complaints would be the poor design on Illegal Mods (as previously explained) and the differences in XS Freighter/Orbital Strike, which again favors the gunslinger (imo). While XS Freighter uses a stun mechanic on damage, Orbital Strike utilizes a knockdown, similar to Mortar Volley or Force Quake. This is only an issue when doing solo content, but it makes clearing slightly spread out packs of mobs far more annoying, since mobs most commonly get knocked out of the AoE if you try to fit all of them inside.

[MatticusFinch]

Snipers have superficial advantages (easiness to get 5k medal) while Gunslingers have practical AND BURST (burst is king of PvP) advantage over snipers. As well as 2 chances per attack to apply some of the most important effects like leg shot and vital shot.

 

I'm not positive on vital shot, but if the mainhand shot misses on leg shot, you won't root them, even if the off-hand hits. I've seen this first hand on my GS. I'm inclined to believe that's the case for vital shot, too.

[Synavix]

I'm not positive on vital shot, but if the mainhand shot misses on leg shot, you won't root them, even if the off-hand hits. I've seen this first hand on my GS. I'm inclined to believe that's the case for vital shot, too.

 

Unlike Leg Shot, Vital Shot's tooltip leads me to believe it's a MH only attack anyway. There is no indication that it fires both blasters.

[Missandei]

How is crit calculated for `slinger?

Is it calculates separately for MH and OH? So Sniper either crit or not and slinger can crit on MH and dont crit on OH?...

Edited September 20, 2012 by Missandei