Sawbones PVP gear?

[Aerilas]

If you have 15% more hit points, then you're going to live 15% longer. You can't simply dismiss something as "it's not gonna save you", because PVP is rarely that black or white. 15% extra hit points is significant. You've been in warzones and flashpoints with undergeared people who explode before you can land your heals on them. Don't try and argue that another 3k hp wouldn't make a difference.

 

Can we please have a discussion without broad sweeping generalizations? +3000 hp matters. 150 hp/s matters. Let's discuss which is more valuable in various scenarios, not try and label one as insignificant when it's clearly not.

 

All I'm saying that if you're up against an organized team as we are sometimes. You die whether you have 19k or 30k hp. and you die fast. If they want you to

[Azaranth]

All I'm saying that if you're up against an organized team as we are sometimes. You die whether you have 19k or 30k hp. and you die fast. If they want you to

 

In which case, neither healing stats nor endurance helps you. The scenario you present isn't a compelling argument for either stat philosophy.

 

So let's examine the other cases.

[DWinget]

I'm new to playing a sawbone and have to say, anyone who hits 1 million healing did an amazing job regardless of build or play style. Personally I'm tired of being jumped by 3-5 guys stunlocked and killed in about 3-5 seconds. If I could just use insta casts and heal that much I know it would be an asset to the team. Is there some place to read up on how to accomplish that?

[Truescopes]

In which case, neither healing stats nor endurance helps you. The scenario you present isn't a compelling argument for either stat philosophy.

 

So let's examine the other cases.

 

Yes you will die either way, but the 150 extra hps will help you heal other teammates throughout the entire match. It's a pretty obvious choice.

[Aerilas]

Yes you will die either way, but the 150 extra hps will help you heal other teammates throughout the entire match. It's a pretty obvious choice.

 

Love you brah

[kersypants]

Yes you will die either way, but the 150 extra hps will help you heal other teammates throughout the entire match. It's a pretty obvious choice.

 

I'd bet the "get focused and die before you can get a heal off" scenario accounts for less than 5% of your time in a warzone. I'd also bet the "No one is chasing me, nor am I taking damage" scenario is also less than 5% of your time in a warzone.

 

The remaining 90%+ time is all time where you're taking damage, running from guys, having them peeled by allies, getting heals from other healers, etc. You can't say that HP has no merit in this situation.

 

You guys can feel free to pretend that it's black-or-white, all-or-nothing. Azaranth has done some legwork setting up some profiles, providing mathmatical evidence, and generally backs up his point of view with facts. You guys should try and do the same.

[GHoppa]

I'd bet the "get focused and die before you can get a heal off" scenario accounts for less than 5% of your time in a warzone. I'd also bet the "No one is chasing me, nor am I taking damage" scenario is also less than 5% of your time in a warzone.

 

The remaining 90%+ time is all time where you're taking damage, running from guys, having them peeled by allies, getting heals from other healers, etc. You can't say that HP has no merit in this situation.

 

You guys can feel free to pretend that it's black-or-white, all-or-nothing. Azaranth has done some legwork setting up some profiles, providing mathmatical evidence, and generally backs up his point of view with facts. You guys should try and do the same.

 

Sounds like a pretty logical arguement to me Kersypants.

 

Some more food for thought: If you take a rakata endurance stim over hte power one, you will end up with somewhere close to 25k HP. It is not easy to kill a scoundrel with 1300 expertise and 24.5k hp. I'm not advocating either way, just throwing out an idea.

 

At the end of the day, all these posts aren't trying to change to mind of the actual people posting. There minds are mostly made up, and it is rare to see a poster come around to a point of view in any thread. We are posting all of this up for the hundreds+ that read these threads and don't post. They absorb the most information from the back and forth, and are the real winners that take something away from threads like these.

 

One last thing; Even HPS is not really a great indicator of a healer. For scoundrels, it just means keeping lots of hots on people really. Sorcs use thier doughnut heal etc. The best healers KEEP PEOPLE UP. Whats the point of pumping out all that hps if people still die. A good healer will use cleanse on cd and stop damage occuring, use cc's to mitagate damage to people being focused, and be situationally aware, watching objectives, and knowing when to switch to dps and quickly finish off someone on low health, so you can cap objectives etc.

 

There is no metric for measuring any of those things, the only way you can tell is by playing with them, or watching them play. So lets try not to get focused or bogged down in total healing or hps numbers.

[Lightning_]

Well, I'm glad people are stacking Endurance. I wish they'd stack Defense and Absorb as well. That way our class will appear less OP than it is, and won't get a nerf.

[Truescopes]

I'd bet the "get focused and die before you can get a heal off" scenario accounts for less than 5% of your time in a warzone. I'd also bet the "No one is chasing me, nor am I taking damage" scenario is also less than 5% of your time in a warzone.

 

The remaining 90%+ time is all time where you're taking damage, running from guys, having them peeled by allies, getting heals from other healers, etc. You can't say that HP has no merit in this situation.

 

You guys can feel free to pretend that it's black-or-white, all-or-nothing. Azaranth has done some legwork setting up some profiles, providing mathmatical evidence, and generally backs up his point of view with facts. You guys should try and do the same.

 

The only time that extra hp has any effect is when you are dropping below the point of hp you had before. Now, first of all you shouldn't be letting your hp drop anyway and should be keeping it out of the 30% range as much as possible to avoid executes. Second of all the amount of times you go below that number in each warzone is going to be very, very small.

 

However, the entire match that extra healing is going to be allowing you to keep allies up, which is the whole point of you being a healer. I can survive just fine with 19khp~ in both ranked and normal matches, while putting out the extra healing that people itemised with endurance wouldn't be. The times that I do die, atleast in ranked matches it doesn't matter how much hp you have, you are going to die if the whole team switches to you at once.

 

Honestly, it's a pretty obvious argument for anyone that has played the class at all extensively.

 

Edit: Oh and for the bis configuration for hps, you shouldn't have 370 crit rating. The bonus healing would be higher than that.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Truescopes

[Truescopes]

Sounds like a pretty logical arguement to me Kersypants.

 

Some more food for thought: If you take a rakata endurance stim over hte power one, you will end up with somewhere close to 25k HP. It is not easy to kill a scoundrel with 1300 expertise and 24.5k hp. I'm not advocating either way, just throwing out an idea.

 

At the end of the day, all these posts aren't trying to change to mind of the actual people posting. There minds are mostly made up, and it is rare to see a poster come around to a point of view in any thread. We are posting all of this up for the hundreds+ that read these threads and don't post. They absorb the most information from the back and forth, and are the real winners that take something away from threads like these.

 

One last thing; Even HPS is not really a great indicator of a healer. For scoundrels, it just means keeping lots of hots on people really. Sorcs use thier doughnut heal etc. The best healers KEEP PEOPLE UP. Whats the point of pumping out all that hps if people still die. A good healer will use cleanse on cd and stop damage occuring, use cc's to mitagate damage to people being focused, and be situationally aware, watching objectives, and knowing when to switch to dps and quickly finish off someone on low health, so you can cap objectives etc.

 

There is no metric for measuring any of those things, the only way you can tell is by playing with them, or watching them play. So lets try not to get focused or bogged down in total healing or hps numbers.

 

But hps does mean you are keeping people alive, overhealing doesn't count for anything in this game so every heal you are seeing is keeping people alive. I personally only keep hots up on me and the tank, the rest of my heals are used on whoever is taking the most damage. While you can't see how the person played from it, it is the best indicator to see how good a healer is without seeing a video of them playing.

 

But yes, total healing means nothing, I agree.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Truescopes

[oaceen]

Love you brah

 

ok, so lulzbot was just stating nonsense and trolling, and i think it was important for everyone's benefit that he be proven wrong, but Az is making compelling, concise, and more importantly, politely-worded arguments and all you can do is respond with sarcasm.

[EFSoupy]

If I can echo what was said previously by Xam (arguably one of the best healers on our server), there are very different healing styles. Our HoTs make us very strong PvP healers because of the ability to scramble and heal, but it's not the only way to do it and I don't think instacasts should be the only tools we use. I agree that there is very little time to get a casted heal off, that doesn't mean there aren't times we can and should. I used to heal solely with UWM, EM and KC, and still do mostly, but UWM and DS are great tools when you get a chance to use them and some alacrity gives you more opportunity to use them. -Moco

[GHoppa]

...it is the best indicator to see how good a healer is without seeing a video of them playing.

 

There are plenty of games that happen out there, where big numbers come along because all you do is heal and ignore everything else, while the enemies dps isn't enough to kill anyone but just enough to keep your hots ticking, and you and your team are never really put under pressure.

 

Weather it's the "best" indicator we have or not, still does not make it a good one. My point is all it shows is you know how to get big numbers. Whoopy. Don't get stuck in numbers at all. Lets talk strategies and playstyles, and how gear will benefit those certain styles of play.

 

Which btw, i believe this thread has been mostly constructive with, and has made some good points from a number of perspectives.

Edited December 20, 2012 by GHoppa

[Darth-Rammstein]

Is there any room for partial pve gear in wzs? Or is it in your best interest to just go full pvp sets...idk if the extra stats would offset the lack of expertise or not.

[Aerilas]

Is there any room for partial pve gear in wzs? Or is it in your best interest to just go full pvp sets...idk if the extra stats would offset the lack of expertise or not.

 

Look at my first post on the first page. That actually had me posting about gear you wanted before this exploded into a different topic.

 

I did make a mistake there. About bracers and belts. Which leads me to your question.

 

I didn't take the pvp bracers and belts. i took Custom items, put in PVE armorings in both, and a PVP mod. This way you get a LOT more stats for just a minimal expertise loss.

Along with changing the expertise crystals to power crystals will in the end put you around 1200 expertise, which is where you'd want to be. Thats about the PVE gear you want

[anwg]

Is there any room for partial pve gear in wzs? Or is it in your best interest to just go full pvp sets...idk if the extra stats would offset the lack of expertise or not.

 

2 piece PvE and 2 piece PvP set bonus is the best for full sawbone builds, in both PvE and PvP.

Edited January 2, 2013 by anwg

[GHoppa]

2 piece PvE and 2 piece PvP set bonus is the best for full sawbone builds, in both PvE and PvP.

 

huh? really?

 

Are you talking about a 4 energy off kolto cloud as a 2 set pve bonus?

 

If so, are you telling me, that you would rather have 4 energy off 1 ability, instead of an extra 5 energy you can spend anywhere you like, and which also maintains your energy in a higher level of regen for longer?

 

4 set PvP bonus is the way to go in PvP, no question about it.

[anwg]

All it takes is 1 cast of KC before you hit 60 energy to make up the difference, and I pretty much cast KC on cooldown. Edited January 2, 2013 by anwg

[oaceen]

huh? really?

 

Are you talking about a 4 energy off kolto cloud as a 2 set pve bonus?

 

If so, are you telling me, that you would rather have 4 energy off 1 ability, instead of an extra 5 energy you can spend anywhere you like, and which also maintains your energy in a higher level of regen for longer?

 

4 set PvP bonus is the way to go in PvP, no question about it.

 

i really hope this is a joke post.

 

the 'extra 5 energy you can spend anywhere you like' is only really good once per fight. for any fight that lasts longer than 15s, you get more out of -4 energy cost for kolto cloud. for a shoter, the difference is negligible anyway since it's only 1 energy and it's less than 15s long

 

the 'higher level of regen for longer' equates to 2 extra energy (so 42 max regen energy instead of just 40) because it's still 60% of your total energy, not a static 60 energy

 

 

 

+5 max energy is not a very useful set bonus, even if it did work correctly

Edited January 3, 2013 by oaceen

[Darth-Rammstein]

I'm glad it wasn't pointless of me to buy those 2 campaign armorings then. Edited January 3, 2013 by Darth-Rammstein

[anwg]

I'm glad it wasn't pointless of me to buy those 2 campaign armorings then.

 

For PvP? Hope you kept the receipt! You should've bought two piece Tionese (basically free now), then put the armoring from elite war hero bracer in them.

[Darth-Rammstein]

For PvP? Hope you kept the receipt! You should've bought two piece Tionese (basically free now), then put the armoring from elite war hero bracer in them.

 

I already had the campaign armorings bought as soon as you could get them with bh comms for hm healing, I didn't buy them based on this conversation haha. I figured I could use them for pvp too since it's only 2 armorings it wouldn't be a big deal with expertise loss. But yeah, using tionese shells sounds like a good idea even though I'm wearing custom armor and don't really want to go back to wearing Tier gear.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Darth-Rammstein

[GHoppa]

i really hope this is a joke post.

 

the 'extra 5 energy you can spend anywhere you like' is only really good once per fight. for any fight that lasts longer than 15s, you get more out of -4 energy cost for kolto cloud. for a shoter, the difference is negligible anyway since it's only 1 energy and it's less than 15s long

 

the 'higher level of regen for longer' equates to 2 extra energy (so 42 max regen energy instead of just 40) because it's still 60% of your total energy, not a static 60 energy

 

 

 

+5 max energy is not a very useful set bonus, even if it did work correctly

 

Hhhhmmmmmm... it seems you are correct. I was wrong on this one (omg someone actually admitted they were wrong on the forums, the world is going to end!!!!).

 

I had tried both setups across multiple patches and always found the 4 set bonus easier on my energy consumption. I may have just been experiencing operator mental bias. For it to be worth it, they really need to set the regen levels at 60 energy not 60% energy.

 

Just goes to show, i've been playing my scoundrel since early access, and you never stop learning. Thanks for pointing that out

Edited January 3, 2013 by GHoppa

[oaceen]

For it to be worth it, they really need to set the regen levels at 60 energy not 60% energy.

 

they really need to fix this, because i highly doubt a 4-set bonus that does so little is really WAI

[Aerilas]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5678660#post5678660

 

to settle once and for all. If you dont cast UWM, your team dies in these kinds of fights. period.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Aerilas