Scrapper soundrel gear/spec build

[BurningCourage]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/34a2eb84-8e0d-49f6-9cf8-0dd889ba83fa this is a build i thought would be good for a scrapper soundrel but instead using the rakata shell for the 2 peice bonus and and battlemaster armorings and the wh mods what do you think of it?

[Syberduh]

Yeah you definitely want two pve shells for the back blast crit bonus. Doesn't even have to be Rakata if you like the look of a piece of tionese or columi gear.

[BurningCourage]

Ya my sorc has tioenese and coulmi mysics shells for the two piece bonus

[CarthOnansi]

Using the shells is a good idea, I have been using it ever since you could take mods out of PvP gear. However your stat priority here is wrong, as a scrapper you don't need any accuracy unless you want to go full on tank killer- which is not what we do.

 

You want to be boosting your crit and surge rather than accuracy now your power is at a soft cap.

 

Your crit and surge are pretty poor for what a scrapper ought to have (aka hitting soft cap at least)

 

You sacrifice some power but as you are using shells and other bonuses it is almost certainly the way to go, my crit % is at 45. that means roughly every 2 moves I do I crit. In a scrappers rotation and especially with a surge of 80% that means I do alot of damage, and it truly keeps me "bursty".

 

power is a way to go but I found it not as good.

 

BTW on Mr robot if your smart you can do the shell bonuses so u accurately work out your stats.

 

You also need to customise all your mods.

Basically you need to do more work on the build, spec looks good I use that myself. Mess around abit till you have the results you want, Mr Robot is priceless for building your char.

[Wainamoinen]

Not sure about all the advice in the last post.

 

Power doesn't have a cap - it boosts bonus damage linearly.

 

Neither do crit and surge have any cap - they scale on a diminishing returns curve (unlike power's linear scale). Whether you want more or less depends on the balance of other stats.

 

However, the broad advice for what you could do to improve is good. Less accuracy (102% is good, any more is pretty much wasted as it only helps weak abilities you rarely use), more surge (I say 350 as a rule of thumb thogh I actually have more, surge quickly gets less useful) and more crit (particularly if you PVP, where getting a big burst in is the difference between killing and being killed). Modding your armour is the way to go tweak stats; the PVE set bonus to back blast crit is great.

 

Last thought: remember cunning is better than power for scrappers. But not by much.

 

Remember that virtually all your abilities work off the Tech tab on your character sheet.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[CarthOnansi]

Not sure about all the advice in the last post.

 

Power doesn't have a cap - it boosts bonus damage linearly.

 

Neither do crit and surge have any cap - they scale on a diminishing returns curve (unlike power's linear scale). Whether you want more or less depends on the balance of other stats.

 

However, the broad advice for what you could do to improve is good. Less accuracy (102% is good, any more is pretty much wasted as it only helps weak abilities you rarely use), more surge (I say 350 as a rule of thumb thogh I actually have more, surge quickly gets less useful) and more crit (particularly if you PVP, where getting a big burst in is the difference between killing and being killed). Modding your armour is the way to go tweak stats; the PVE set bonus to back blast crit is great.

 

Last thought: remember cunning is better than power for scrappers. But not by much.

 

Remember that virtually all your abilities work off the Tech tab on your character sheet.

 

Sorry not caps I meant diminishing returns. There is a cap on Power however I can't remember wht it is (very high but there is one)

 

surge is less important than crit I thnk and power is a nice stat to have, the accuracy however does need to go as all ur attacks go into armour and tech are 100% to hit

[oaceen]

Sorry not caps I meant diminishing returns. There is a cap on Power however I can't remember wht it is (very high but there is one)

 

there is no cap, soft cap, diminishing return, or anything similar on power.

[thendrix]

It should be noted that cunning is much more important to keep track of than power... Which can be greatly affected by using shells as well.

 

Having a crit at 31% is pretty awful in the long run. Currently my main is sitting at 42% crit, and my main power is still tops out at 1100. This means over the course of a round and in important 1v1 fights the damage I put out is much greater.

 

Also, Surge was nerfed quite a while ago. I am in the process of moving my gear around to increase both my power and crit but basically only dropping some Endurance and Surge. In my mind this will be well worth it. Especially if it puts me over the 5k crit mark on the regular.

 

Side note: try to get campaign gear, rakata works, but the tier 4 armor carries the armor set bonus in the armoring piece only. This way your toon can be exactly the way you want it to look

[TalonKorr]

If that's what your gear looks like, you have some work to do. First off you're way overloaded on tech accuracy and only need 105% for tech accuracy. Assuming you have all characters maxed affection, this means you only need two (2) accuracy enhancements of some kind, since accuracy only comes in big chunks of 53 on an enhancement or implant.

 

Second off, your crit is terrible. You need to be running at minimum, 40%.

 

Your bonus to damage is good, but you've sacrificed too much to get there. In addition, now that we can swap crystals in our Offhands (as well as Mainhands), you should drop the expertise crystal in both and drop in 41 power crystals. Soft cap for expertise is 1200, this should leave you at just over that.

 

Your surge is good, but you're likely to pick some up along the way.

 

Recommendations: Get the Targeter implants, they have more cunning, more crit and two of them will provide all the accuracy you need in your entire gear set. Go into your gear and replace all mods and enhancements that have high endurance. You're not a survival class, its your healers job to keep you alive. Use the 51 Cunning, 39 crit rating mods in your gear to start boosting that crit up. In conjunction on the same piece, use some 22 crit rating, 53 surge rating enhancements. I'd switch out the 64 cunning, 12 power mods in your Belt and Bracers with 64 Cunning, 12 crit rating as well. You should also drop the two points from Exploratory Surgery and put them into Dirty Escape. You are a class that has an awful lot of stuns, you stay alive in fights by controlling the fight. If your stuns are on CD, you're not controlling much of anything. In addition with our new and improved sprint, the sprint gained from Dirty Kicking somebody will have you flying all over the place. The Upper Hand gained from the heal is only really good for using Pugnacity. You can tap Pugnacity when combat has slowed down.

 

Personally where I sit: 903 Bonus Tech Damage, 41% Bonus Tech Crit, 106.53% Tech Accuracy, 77.95% Surge, 1210 expertise. I'm over the 105% tech accuracy I stated above, but that's due 53 accuracy, 41 crit enhance in my chest piece. Thats the highest bonus to crit you can gain from an enhancement (all others are 22), so I figured some extra penetration wasn't a terrible thing for the grand total of 80 crit rating on the item. It looks like you've geared yourself like a Marauder would which is a bit against our grain.

 

Also, rule of thumb, if you have the 9% cunning talent in the sawbones tree, the cap for Cunning is 2k, if you don't have it the cap for cunning is 1700-1800.

[Wainamoinen]

Poster above: good of you to try to help someone out, I fully applaud that, but I do have a few questions where your advice doesn't chime with what I've found out about the game mechanics. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know it, if you're misinformed then both you and anyone reading will benefit.

 

Could you explain why you state there is a soft cap on expertise at 1200?

It is on a diminishing returns curve. A soft cap implies that some other stat becomes more powerful at a given value, I'd like to see this worked out.

 

Also, why do you want 105% accuracy rather than 102%?

Tech attacks (which covers all the important scoundrel attacks) have 100% base accuracy, and so far as I know the most resist available to avoid it is 2% from talents in the shadow/assassin tree. So 102% would be all you need (for PvP purposes), the extra 3% being wasted.

 

Why cap cunning at 2000?

So far as I know, with the 5% consular buff and 9% talent, it's always our strongest stat and so should always be picked where there is a 1 for 1 choice with another stat. So stack as much as you can.

 

Thanks for any response.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[TalonKorr]

Going by this chart, the bell curve for Expertise (DR) begins to shallow out in the 1200 range. It's very subtle, so by all means dispute away, however in my experience (Valor 95 Op, Valor 88 Scound), the difference between 1200 (ish) and 1332 or whatever the unmodified max used to be is easily made up by stacking other stats.

 

Yes, Tech Accuracy is at 100%, but if you start going after Guardians or Juggs you'll find yourself missing alot. In ranked PvP since a single tank based Guardian or Jugg with 27k life without any of his CD's up can be the single thing that wins or loses a match, I want to make sure when I hit him with something, I fire for max effect.

 

The "2000" max stat with the 9% talent is more of an abstract concept with our gear. What I'm more or less trying to say is that while mathematically should you continue stacking main stat there won't be any problems or loss in effectiveness, the gear in the game doesn't exist for you to do so. In other words, the way the mods, armorings, barrels and enhancements are balanced with their stat allocation, if you find yourself significantly above 2k, there is likely a piece you'll be able to switch out that has a stronger secondary stat (for instance power) that will up your damage with minimal loss from your main stat.

[Wainamoinen]

Going by this chart, the bell curve for Expertise (DR) begins to shallow out in the 1200 range. It's very subtle, so by all means dispute away, however in my experience (Valor 95 Op, Valor 88 Scound), the difference between 1200 (ish) and 1332 or whatever the unmodified max used to be is easily made up by stacking other stats.

 

Yes, Tech Accuracy is at 100%, but if you start going after Guardians or Juggs you'll find yourself missing alot. In ranked PvP since a single tank based Guardian or Jugg with 27k life without any of his CD's up can be the single thing that wins or loses a match, I want to make sure when I hit him with something, I fire for max effect.

 

The "2000" max stat with the 9% talent is more of an abstract concept with our gear. What I'm more or less trying to say is that while mathematically should you continue stacking main stat there won't be any problems or loss in effectiveness, the gear in the game doesn't exist for you to do so. In other words, the way the mods, armorings, barrels and enhancements are balanced with their stat allocation, if you find yourself significantly above 2k, there is likely a piece you'll be able to switch out that has a stronger secondary stat (for instance power) that will up your damage with minimal loss from your main stat.

 

I wouldn't say the curve for expertise starts to shallow at 1200 myself - the curve levels off slowly and evenly without changing at any particular value, and for damage is still increasingly rapidly at 1200 I'd say. But I was really looking for some actual mathematical proof rather than "it feels", otherwise it's not possible to say. It does become complicated, particularly with different crit rates and crit bonuses on different abilities so that you have to factor in how much you use each. Might be interesting to see it empirically.

 

I'll take a quick look at my own stats to do some rough comparisons. I'm at 1370 expertise, which gives me 24.97% damage boost and 19.98% damage taken reduction.

1203 expertise would give me 22.77% and 18.54% respectively.

So that 167 extra expertise means I'm doing 2.20% more damage, while taking 1.44% less. Which is nice.

167 power would give me (0.23*167) 38.41 extra bonus damage. Already getting 849.2.

167 crit at my current rating (407) would give me an extra 3.6% crit chance, which IS interesting. With crit bonus of 79.4% that would be 2.86% more damage (and some abilities do more than basic crit bonus damage). So maybe, if I could move expertise to crit, I should - solely on the basis of dps. This doesn't take the damage reduction side of expertise into account, which will probably swing it back to the PvP stat.

 

How do you miss with 100% accuracy on Tech? The hit reduction abilities of Juggs and Guards don't apply. The only attack I regtularly see miss or get deflected is Flurry of Bolts - but then that's not a tech attack. I think 102% is the correct figure to look for, unless I can be shown why it's incorrect.

 

With regard to cunning, I think we're coming at the same point from different angles. There's no point giving up 10 power for 1 cunning, it's not like you should sacrifice anything for 1 extra point of main stat. But I wouldn't use the term "cap" which implies there's a barrier value past which it's ineffective to take a stat due to game mechanics.

 

edit: bell curves. I hadn't mentioned it at first, because I didn't want it to seem like I was trying to belittle someone being helpful and it didn't add to the discussion, but I'm OCD enough that I can't let the error go. The curves in the graph linked (which are correct to the best of my knowledge) aren't bell curves. Bell curves tend to zero at top and bottom with a curved lump in the middle so they make a bell shape, hence the name. An example:. zero adult humans are 1 cm tall, and zero are 300cm tall, with gradually fewer as you approach the extremes and a bulge in the middle around maybe 165cm.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[Daiyukie]

Personally where I sit: 903 Bonus Tech Damage, 41% Bonus Tech Crit, 106.53% Tech Accuracy, 77.95% Surge, 1210 expertise.

 

How did you get 903 Bonus Damage AND 41% crit AND 78% Surge AND room for 6% Accuracy? Crit and Power don't come together, so...? Or did you get Power augments instead of Cunning?

 

I just don't see the possibilty for that amount of secondary stats on my gear, every mod installed is power except for my barrels, which are crit, and I get ~860 Bonus Damage with exactly 30.00% crit (without 3% crit talent and with class buff and stim), ~79% Surge and ~1960 Cunning, zero accuracy and zero alacrity.

[Wainamoinen]

Expertise.

 

Alright, I decided to spend the afternoon putting a spreadsheet together to answer to my own satisfaction what was the optimum level of expertise, for me.

 

Caveats:

i) It's for me - I used an old (out-of-date) record of how many times I used different abilities. This is not precise for me now, or anyone else ever.

ii) How expertise is applied: after looking around various very long, complicated threads I decided it's applied multiplicatively after other effects, unlike most bonuses which are additive. Figures change if this isn't so.

III) I used an out-of date set of my stats, so it doesn't reflect the changes after 1.4. Also note something that I embarrassingly didn't recognise until I stopped to think about it: an increase in expertise bonus damage from 22% to 24% isn't a 2% increase in damage, but a (1.24/1.22)-1 = 1.6% damage increase.

iv) I couldn't be bothered to calculate the non-tech abilities separately and just assumed they'd increase in step (a. they're small; and b. they pretty much will).

 

Result: I reckon I'd have been able to swap expertise out for power down to about 1150 expertise and see an increase in performance. Cunning still beat power but I was already maxing that, crit was well back, surge was insignificant. To repeat: this is for my character and the way I play.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[TalonKorr]

How did you get 903 Bonus Damage AND 41% crit AND 78% Surge AND room for 6% Accuracy? Crit and Power don't come together, so...? Or did you get Power augments instead of Cunning?

 

I just don't see the possibilty for that amount of secondary stats on my gear, every mod installed is power except for my barrels, which are crit, and I get ~860 Bonus Damage with exactly 30.00% crit (without 3% crit talent and with class buff and stim), ~79% Surge and ~1960 Cunning, zero accuracy and zero alacrity.

 

My stats that were listed are fully buffed. I.e. Rakata Stim, JK buff, Smugg buff and Consular buff.

 

Give me a few hours (if you're checking this at present) and I'll work up a mr. robot link. At the moment I'm finishing an online exam for class.

Edited October 7, 2012 by TalonKorr

[TalonKorr]

How did you get 903 Bonus Damage AND 41% crit AND 78% Surge AND room for 6% Accuracy? Crit and Power don't come together, so...? Or did you get Power augments instead of Cunning?

 

I just don't see the possibilty for that amount of secondary stats on my gear, every mod installed is power except for my barrels, which are crit, and I get ~860 Bonus Damage with exactly 30.00% crit (without 3% crit talent and with class buff and stim), ~79% Surge and ~1960 Cunning, zero accuracy and zero alacrity.

 

So here is how my gear is setup for the most part. Unfortunately Ask Mr. Robot doesn't have A) Elite War Hero tier implemented yet and B) doesn't allow for the customization of Off Hands.

 

Flak - Jedi Covenant

 

Here are the differences however:

Main Hand - Elite War Hero Barrel - 36 End, 37 Cunning, 50 Expertise, Rating 150 - 673 Tech Power

Off Hand - Hawkeye Crystal (41 Power) - Elite War Hero Barrel 673 Tech Power - War Hero's Artful Mod 26A - War Hero's Adept Enhancement 26

War Hero Field Tech Boots (Shell) - War Hero's Keen Mod 27 (From OH) - War Hero's Assault Enhancement 27 (From OH)

 

Actual Stats of items not correctly represented on Mr. Robot:

Elite War Hero Enforcer Main Hand:

294-547 Damage (Rating 150)

107 Endurance

106 Cunning

110 Expertise

121 Power

673 Tech Power

53 Surge

 

Elite War Hero Enforcer's Shotgun

340-566 Damage (Rating 150)

116 Endurance

119 Cunning

110 Expertise

94 Power

673 Tech Power

53 Surge

 

War Hero Field Tech's Boots

127 Endurance

106 Cunning

110 Expertise

63 Crit

54 Surge

 

Key Stats with Rakata Stim and all buffs:

2012 Cunning

1702 Endurance

1208 Expertise

903.9 Bonus Damage

106.34% Accuracy

41.04 Crit Chance

77.97 Crit Multiplayer

[Daiyukie]

I see now. Kind of crazy that you have 500 Power and that much bonus damage, I saw the Elite weapons and was rather unimpressed at first.

[TalonKorr]

Eh, at the end of the day they're barrel upgrades.

[TalonKorr]

Looks like Mr. Robot got updated or I never noticed how to do this properly before.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/618e5bbe-2e62-4ef0-b7df-2fbdd7f08dd1

[dipstik]

in BH/campaign gear you want to go 120 accuracy and 180 crit, the rest in surge and power respectivly. there has been mention of using crit/power 22 enhancements rather than the power/surge enhancements at higher gear levels due to surge hitting such a hard cap once you are near 400 (which you will be if you only put 120 point in accuracy, which is all u need sicne 95% of damage is coming from tech attacks).

 

here is what i think might be BiS right now:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/3340183c-fe4c-4801-94a7-6915865ed666

 

this is for PvE, my bad

Edited October 8, 2012 by dipstik

[Vindaus]

I know allot of ppl say stack the crit in turn you lose pwr, well from my experience that extra 10% to crit (from 30 to 40) isnt worth the extra dps you will gain from Pwr, crits hit much harded when the proc when your dmg is much higher, and going over data over several months i dnt find I crit any less with the 30% then with the 40% this is what I have full buff:

 

Exper: 1199

pwr: 1084

cunn:1997

surge: 77.94

crit 29.97%

 

i'm still a few pieces from Min/Max so my stats will change slightly, now I'm one of the best scrapper scoundrels my server and can 1v1 any other class in game. I wish there was a way to stack pwr and crit on the same enhancments but there isnt so pwr is it for me... but we all have our own opinions and our own experiences... take the info given in these post and make your own decision and just try it out, in the end its not always bout haveing the better stat than the guy your fighting... sometimes it comes down to how good YOU are...

Edited October 9, 2012 by Vindaus

[thendrix]

in BH/campaign gear you want to go 120 accuracy and 180 crit, the rest in surge and power respectivly. there has been mention of using crit/power 22 enhancements rather than the power/surge enhancements at higher gear levels due to surge hitting such a hard cap once you are near 400 (which you will be if you only put 120 point in accuracy, which is all u need sicne 95% of damage is coming from tech attacks).

 

here is what i think might be BiS right now:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/3340183c-fe4c-4801-94a7-6915865ed666

 

this is for PvE, my bad

 

you are correct on keeping accuracy at 120 in order to keep tech accuracy at the appropriate level. However, I think your gear set makes relatively no sense. It is a PVE set, so why would you have PVP relics? And, I am pretty sure this thread has been mostly dedicated to PVP gear sets. Expertise is a must for scoundrels in ranked PVP. I am not on board with trying to hit 1200 as many scrappers mistakenly do, however sitting at just over 100 expertise is crippling.

 

Your gear is good for PVE, but why WH relics and not Campaign? The usable abilities on Campaign relics, far outweight the stat boost from the WH relics IMO

[dipstik]

its pretty wideheld that WH relics are better than capaign relics. the proc capaign relics do not output as much damage as the additional power gives, the on use power relic is on CD and give a time average 114 power, and anything that isnt power just hits hard DR.

[Lightning_]

there has been mention of using crit/power 22 enhancements rather than the power/surge enhancements at higher gear levels due to surge hitting such a hard cap once you are near 400 (which you will be if you only put 120 point in accuracy, which is all u need sicne 95% of damage is coming from tech attacks).

What, crit/power enhancements?

[Wainamoinen]

What, crit/power enhancements?

 

Well, I've mentioned them. In the context of "I really, really wish power/crit enhancements existed".