A full absorb tank. I need help. I wasted my last 6 months :(

[grallmate]

After reading the first 12 pages and seeing only 1 person allude to the reason the OP is getting low protection numbers despite gear. Let me clear it up.

 

You're gear has NOTHING to do with your protection numbers. Protection is a measure of how much damage you prevent/redirect from your team mates.

- Guard redirects 50% of the guarded players damage to you

- Taunt reduces the damage the taunted player deals by 30% for 6 seconds unless they target you

- Guardian Leap (the reason Guardian DPS are beating you) reduces damage taken by an ally by 20% for 6 seconds

 

You can run around in DPS gear or tank gear and get high protection IF you play smart and use your abilities. Swap guard to the people getting focused, taunt high DPS classes, AoE taunt when there is a pile of DPS somewhere. Guardians also have leap to help out. Guard -> Guardian Leap -> AoE Taunt just reduced incoming damage on someone by ~75%.

 

The only advantage of running around in tank gear is increased survivability/TTL. Against certain classes this would make you near unstoppable and against others it makes little difference. But watching a WH Sent hit me with a MS that takes of less that 15% of my HP makes me lol.

[Blasphemerr]

You waited 6 months gearing up a tank before reading how stats work? You lie sir, you lie. No refunds.

 

Still relevant.

[NoaFlux]

I don't really keep track of it, but I used to see survivor geared shadow tanks when my playtimes were more inline with server's peak. Those tanks did contribute a good deal as well, though, their damage was a lot less than the dps geared assassin/shadows. So, don't count your gear useless yet. You can, however, start getting bm dps gear if you think that is more viable. You should be able to get it in around a week's time even with casual play.

 

Thanks for the support. Might try that!

[NoaFlux]

Still relevant.

 

I have gone through like 10 sets of gear in the last 6 months. I just got War Hero. I thought that with War Hero I would finally start to reap the benefits! How would I know before this? If everyone else seems to be so much stronger?

 

As far as a combat log, I know how to read it for damage but not for protection. I'm still learning (i uses act it's hard to understand sometimes).

 

I still deserve a refund. If they can take away/redesign tons of my abilities over a course of 6 months. I should be able to get a refund for badly designed gear.

Edited September 9, 2012 by NoaFlux

[NoaFlux]

After reading the first 12 pages and seeing only 1 person allude to the reason the OP is getting low protection numbers despite gear. Let me clear it up.

 

You're gear has NOTHING to do with your protection numbers. Protection is a measure of how much damage you prevent/redirect from your team mates.

- Guard redirects 50% of the guarded players damage to you

- Taunt reduces the damage the taunted player deals by 30% for 6 seconds unless they target you

- Guardian Leap (the reason Guardian DPS are beating you) reduces damage taken by an ally by 20% for 6 seconds

 

You can run around in DPS gear or tank gear and get high protection IF you play smart and use your abilities. Swap guard to the people getting focused, taunt high DPS classes, AoE taunt when there is a pile of DPS somewhere. Guardians also have leap to help out. Guard -> Guardian Leap -> AoE Taunt just reduced incoming damage on someone by ~75%.

 

The only advantage of running around in tank gear is increased survivability/TTL. Against certain classes this would make you near unstoppable and against others it makes little difference. But watching a WH Sent hit me with a MS that takes of less that 15% of my HP makes me lol.

 

Thanks. You seem like you want to help. I'm not a guardian though. I'm a shadow. Now that you know that what am I doing wrong?

 

I do everything you mentioned, I play 6 matches a day on average and try to get protection up 24/7 and don't seem to be able to get over 100.000 without a healer. I have never hit 200,000.

 

Yet I see the same class get 300,000 on occasion.

 

I hate to say it, but if I don't start hearing something that makes sense. I have to start thinking all of it is cheating. Well I know some of it is, someone told me it is, but they just had a bot healer. Can a bot healer double/triple your protection numbers?

[NoaFlux]

Absolutly not. The change is a good thing for Shadow/Assassin tanks because a knockback is something that has a low incidence/interest on a tank survival. Their knockback were something more dedicated to protect others because pushing people has a way higher incidence on others' survival, and now that the knockback will have a higher range and no "timer" before being released, tanks will be able to protect people even more efficiently.

 

I love the jump part of force wave. It's my fav move and looks awesome. Adding "instant" features is ridiculous. It's highly unrealistic. It's not exciting visually, and doesn't inspire either.

 

All this instant crap is why GW2 PvP is so boring. Everything happens so quick that you can't even tell what's happening, that why people say GW2 is cheap.

 

Sorry I HATE the new force wave and I might leave the game because of it. One reason I like SWTOR is because it didn't have this instantaneous stuff. The game feels real at times. I'm sick of games like Halo and GW2 where I just glide around...everything is instant...it just feels like I'm playing Killer Instinct or Street Fighter without the punch and kick animations. What's the point?

 

I feel attached to Force Wave it was my first AOE ability. I feel like it's part of my character. I'm sick of Bio Ware taking things from me. I paid money. They can't keep redesigning/changing abilities all the time. I said it twice today and I'll say it again. MMO's are failing. There are many reasons. But one of them is that they cant make people pay then take things back. They have taken my face gear, my damage, my abilities, my armor...it just feels like stealing. I pay for this stuff for gods sake. MMO's need to put a policy in place where they only fix problems by giving. There is nothing natural/comfortable/normal about taking things back from customers.

Edited September 9, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Armadyil]

Wow, you leave the game because your ability activates 0.5 secs earlier... But that's your choice

 

But I also wouldnt mind to keep force wave the way it is, so had to time a little, but thats no problem. Ill have to see how that 120 degrees feature will work out, but I guess that thats no big problem for you, a survival assassin. For me, a sage healer, it might be a bigger problem to get 3 parasite marauders off me...

Edited September 9, 2012 by Armadyil

[NoaFlux]

Wow, you leave the game because your ability activates 0.5 secs earlier... But that's your choice

 

But I also wouldnt mind to keep force wave the way it is, so had to time a little, but thats no problem. Ill have to see how that 120 degrees feature will work out, but I guess that thats no big problem for you, a survival assassin. For me, a sage healer, it might be a bigger problem to get 3 parasite marauders off me...

 

Oh no no. Not just because of that. There are more changes to Force Wave than the activation, and I don't mind the activation, I just don't like taking away the animation. It was fun to jump in the air like that. Matter of fact you could do a cool double jump with it, and also I think it helped prevent some attacks. In general it created a more intense experience but the whole ability will be different now. Not just the activation time.

 

But I'm over exaggerating. I wouldn't leave because of that move alone, but the adjustments to my character overall could make me leave. Obviously I would take everything in to account over my whole course of playing the game. Yet I do have to say this update changes my character more than ever before.

 

I hope I'm not being selfish. If Bio Ware changed my abilities because others were annoyed then fine. I just never heard of this being a problem. I mean it wasn't like force lightening used to be. If it was I would at least like to know about the complaints so I don't feel like it came out of the blue.

 

Most importantly I don't understand why they don't make compromises. Why wouldn't you try to make both sides of the conflict happy at once. It's so easy to compromise. For example, make both kinds of Force Wave/Overload usable (the new and old), at least half the players would use the new one out of choice. This would help balance. For those that kept the old one, make the cool down longer, or make it effect those in the rear less. There are many more options where that came from.

 

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. I just think something isn't right. I stand by my previous post, they need to only fix things by giving, not by taking. I'm starting to feel ripped off. But if they are trying to make everyone happy by making things more fair then fine.

Edited September 9, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Yogol]

I play a Guardian, not a Jugg. And I didn't get shut down. It's a FACT that Tank specced/geared players should have a fair chance against pure Force/Tech users. Period.

 

Yeah, for me too. But let's face it, Bioware has no experience whatsoever in MMOs and it shows in these type of PvP impbalances.

 

A tank class should be able to spec / gear to do well against force / tech users. But, apperently, Bioware disagrees: they think that it is perfectly reasonable that tanks die in 5 seconds. There is nothing anyone can say to change these people's minds.

[Yogol]

If Bio Ware changed my abilities because others were annoyed then fine. I just never heard of this being a problem.

 

I fully agree... I did not read one single post from one single person, saying ''hey, 360° knockback is too powerfull''. Not one single person.

 

But, apperently, someone, somewhere wanted to nerf people, so here we are.

 

I think it is a scam... I think they will not nerf the 360° knockback to 120°. I think they just SAY that they will nerf it and then cancel the nerf, just to say ''see, we listen to you''. I refuse to believe that someone would nerf a skill without any reason whatsoever, no one hates the players that much!

[supafreak]

Im not saying tanks need high dps and mitigation but the way shield and def works vs most classes is just plain dumb.

solution 1 ) Shield and Def should offer at least some (25%?) mitigation to force and tech. Shields woudlnt logically block force, except maybe lightning(although that may not even be real electricity), but for arguments sake lets jsut have Def affect resisting force a little and shield mitigate tech attacks. Perhaps putting points in defense can add to an extra sub stat with a different diminishing return. Ex: 30% def also gives 20%mental barrier, 40% shield also gives 25% chance to suffer through shrapnel i.e. tech attacks

2) or make it so less class skills are purely tech/force. Shield and def (thats most of what the tank has) only works against a few specific AC's

3) IF you continue to leave shield useless in PVP, but want to put these useless stats on our WH gear anyway, at least give us Orange moddable Shields so we can still use soresu while making up for it with a small dps boost

Edited September 9, 2012 by supafreak

[grallmate]

Thanks. You seem like you want to help. I'm not a guardian though. I'm a shadow. Now that you know that what am I doing wrong?

 

I do everything you mentioned, I play 6 matches a day on average and try to get protection up 24/7 and don't seem to be able to get over 100.000 without a healer. I have never hit 200,000.

 

Yet I see the same class get 300,000 on occasion.

 

I hate to say it, but if I don't start hearing something that makes sense. I have to start thinking all of it is cheating. Well I know some of it is, someone told me it is, but they just had a bot healer. Can a bot healer double/triple your protection numbers?

 

Honestly, you will have trouble cracking 100k without a healer.

 

Average taunt will net you about 3k protection if its used on someone who is actively attacking and pumping about 1.5k DPS. Well placed taunt can crack 6k protection if its used during a massive burst, but that's very tough to do. When you get really good with your taunts you can probably average 4k.

 

AoE taunt will probably net you 10k if its used well. Thats hitting 3 DPS who are all actively attacking. The AoE can go a lot higher if you hit 5 DPS who are all AoEing your entire team, but generally I'd say 10k is pretty average.

 

Guard is going to vary. Without a healer you are pulling probably 25-30k protection per life if you are guarding whoever is being focused and taking no external damage. You become a second life bar for someone, and that lifebar just depletes. Now if you have a healer, you make their AoE/HoTs more useful and reduce the spikiness of damage. You and your guarded target stay up longer. Potentially a LOT longer and that means a LOT more protection.

 

With Guard it is also important to make sure you are swapping guard to whoever is being hit. You get no protection from guarding a healer who is in the back being ignored. In that situation its better to guard the Sentinel charging into enemy lines and drawing all their attention. Once your guard target dies make sure you guard someone else, preferably someone taking damage. Also, make ABSOLUTELY sure you are in guard range of your target.

 

Finally, its a matter of how you play as well. You need to be where the action is. You get no protection points by guarding a node or solo capping. You don't get points by dealing damage. If you want high protection you need to play a high protection game and ignore everything else until you get the hang of it. You need to monitor the fight, pay attention to who is being attacked, who is attacking, what is happening. All that is easier if you have a healer keeping you up and you can ignore your HP (to an extent) but you don't always have that luxury.

 

For reference, I have Guardian and Assassin tanks. Guardian's highest protection is 350k with 1 death in a Novare Coast match that was pretty much 7v7 at South. We had 3 healers, 3 DPS and me, they had 2 healers, 4 DPS and 1 tank. South didn't get taken for about 5 minutes due to all the AoE going off. Long match, always where the action was, getting healed, swapping guard, taunting and Guarian leaping. Assassin's highest is only 150k with 3 deaths in Alderaan, similar scenario (only 6v6 and they had no tank) at mid. My Guardian average is about 150k and my Sin average is about 75k.

 

On a side note about that Novare match, I had more protection than 2 healers had healing and I still got no MVP votes...

 

Couple of other tips that may help you:

- Zoom out, you can see much more of whats happening

- Protect first until you get the hang of it, then add in DPS. It's easier than trying to learn to protect while DPSing

- Numbers aren't everything. Peeling someone off your healer is better than Guarding the healer while they get hit. But you don't get numbers from peeling.

- The really high numbers are usually from pre-mades, you CAN match them, but its harder and less frequent.

 

Don't lose heart, you can get there. It just takes practice.

[UncleOst]

You are not meant to negate some damage types because those damage types are meant to be tank killers.

 

"everybody knows the world must be flat...cuz when people leave town, they never come back"

 

Sounds like you rationalized and come to terms with the fact that mitigation/shields are broken.

Defense/endurance Are however king.

[Ulliam]

I pulled this 474K protection in a PUG yesterday on Voidstar:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8038/7963530946_3e10baedcb_b.jpg

 

Enemy had some good DPS but no healers. We had 4 healers and over half our team never died. We held them at the first door. At many points they tried to focus me down and the healer I was guarding and while they came close it didn't happen.

 

Anyways, +1 for true tank gear in this instance as I couldn't have stayed alive or kept my healer alive had I been DPS geared.

[NoaFlux]

 

I think it is a scam... I think they will not nerf the 360° knockback to 120°. I think they just SAY that they will nerf it and then cancel the nerf, just to say ''see, we listen to you''. I refuse to believe that someone would nerf a skill without any reason whatsoever, no one hates the players that much!

 

I thought about this myself. Since there isn't going to be a test release. They might be using the 1.4 update blog as the "test".

 

We will see.

[NoaFlux]

I pulled this 474K protection in a PUG yesterday on Voidstar:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8038/7963530946_3e10baedcb_b.jpg

 

Enemy had some good DPS but no healers. We had 4 healers and over half our team never died. We held them at the first door. At many points they tried to focus me down and the healer I was guarding and while they came close it didn't happen.

 

Anyways, +1 for true tank gear in this instance as I couldn't have stayed alive or kept my healer alive had I been DPS geared.

 

Wow. Nice. But I'm a shadow tank. Do you guys get more absorb/shield? Is yours maxed out at like 50/60? It would be cool to know your absorb shield rating at this time! Please respind.

[NoaFlux]

Honestly, you will have trouble cracking 100k without a healer.

 

Average taunt will net you about 3k protection if its used on someone who is actively attacking and pumping about 1.5k DPS. Well placed taunt can crack 6k protection if its used during a massive burst, but that's very tough to do. When you get really good with your taunts you can probably average 4k.

 

AoE taunt will probably net you 10k if its used well. Thats hitting 3 DPS who are all actively attacking. The AoE can go a lot higher if you hit 5 DPS who are all AoEing your entire team, but generally I'd say 10k is pretty average.

 

Guard is going to vary. Without a healer you are pulling probably 25-30k protection per life if you are guarding whoever is being focused and taking no external damage. You become a second life bar for someone, and that lifebar just depletes. Now if you have a healer, you make their AoE/HoTs more useful and reduce the spikiness of damage. You and your guarded target stay up longer. Potentially a LOT longer and that means a LOT more protection.

 

With Guard it is also important to make sure you are swapping guard to whoever is being hit. You get no protection from guarding a healer who is in the back being ignored. In that situation its better to guard the Sentinel charging into enemy lines and drawing all their attention. Once your guard target dies make sure you guard someone else, preferably someone taking damage. Also, make ABSOLUTELY sure you are in guard range of your target.

 

Finally, its a matter of how you play as well. You need to be where the action is. You get no protection points by guarding a node or solo capping. You don't get points by dealing damage. If you want high protection you need to play a high protection game and ignore everything else until you get the hang of it. You need to monitor the fight, pay attention to who is being attacked, who is attacking, what is happening. All that is easier if you have a healer keeping you up and you can ignore your HP (to an extent) but you don't always have that luxury.

 

For reference, I have Guardian and Assassin tanks. Guardian's highest protection is 350k with 1 death in a Novare Coast match that was pretty much 7v7 at South. We had 3 healers, 3 DPS and me, they had 2 healers, 4 DPS and 1 tank. South didn't get taken for about 5 minutes due to all the AoE going off. Long match, always where the action was, getting healed, swapping guard, taunting and Guarian leaping. Assassin's highest is only 150k with 3 deaths in Alderaan, similar scenario (only 6v6 and they had no tank) at mid. My Guardian average is about 150k and my Sin average is about 75k.

 

On a side note about that Novare match, I had more protection than 2 healers had healing and I still got no MVP votes...

 

Couple of other tips that may help you:

- Zoom out, you can see much more of whats happening

- Protect first until you get the hang of it, then add in DPS. It's easier than trying to learn to protect while DPSing

- Numbers aren't everything. Peeling someone off your healer is better than Guarding the healer while they get hit. But you don't get numbers from peeling.

- The really high numbers are usually from pre-mades, you CAN match them, but its harder and less frequent.

 

Don't lose heart, you can get there. It just takes practice.

 

Wow thanks. This is really great. Well written, and I def learned some stuff. But I have some questions.

 

1.) I'm a SHADOW tank...are you able to protect more than me? Do guardians start with higher protection? You have both classes so you should know. From your data it seems like that is true. But why?

 

2.) For some reason...you list 25,000 to 30,000 protection per person? What? Did you mean 2500 to 3000?

 

**I do have to say my biggest challenge is protecting nodes, since it seems like no one else wants to (pug). I could run around and look for better taunt groups...but I would be leaving nodes unprotected here and there.

 

Again thanks for the support!! I really appreciate it!

Edited September 10, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Darth_Philar]

"everybody knows the world must be flat...cuz when people leave town, they never come back"

 

Sounds like you rationalized and come to terms with the fact that mitigation/shields are broken.

Defense/endurance Are however king.

 

It's ok, not everyone understands the concept of Rock<Paper<Scissors.

 

I'll explain it to you:

 

Rock crushes Scissors

Scissors cut Paper

Paper covers Rock

 

You see? Each one beats one and loses to another.

 

Same concept is applied here. Some classes beat other classes, who beat other classes, who beat other classes, etc. until you cycle back to the beginning.

 

Granted, it isn't implemented very well, but that's the idea behind it.

 

Now you can tell your friends you learned something today!

[Ulliam]

Wow. Nice. But I'm a shadow tank. Do you guys get more absorb/shield? Is yours maxed out at like 50/60? It would be cool to know your absorb shield rating at this time! Please respind.

 

Here are my stats with hyper-battle fortitude buff:

 

Armor Rating 7970

Dam Red 52.46

Def Chance 26.32

Shield 44

Absorb 43.27

Health 24351

 

Expertise 1291

Damage Boost 23.95

Damage Reduction 19.32

Healing Boost 13.26

 

I also use the War Hero Relic of Shield Amplification that procs 405 absorb for 6 seconds. I use a hybrid spec and don't have any points that boost my shield ability from skills.

[NoaFlux]

Here are my stats with hyper-battle fortitude buff:

 

Armor Rating 7970

Dam Red 52.46

Def Chance 26.32

Shield 44

Absorb 43.27

Health 24351

 

Expertise 1291

Damage Boost 23.95

Damage Reduction 19.32

Healing Boost 13.26

 

I also use the War Hero Relic of Shield Amplification that procs 405 absorb for 6 seconds. I use a hybrid spec and don't have any points that boost my shield ability from skills.

 

I see. So technically I have a one up on you w my shield ability? I also have more absorb (45%). My shield is about 10% lower than yours.

 

Anyway I guess we are pretty equal.

 

*And by the way I was going to get that Relic. Have you double checked it in the combat logs? I currently have a flat shield rating relic.

Edited September 13, 2012 by NoaFlux