Halacs Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 With enrage timers in the higher end content, dps meters are needed to be sure everyone is pulling ones weight. Someone has already pointed out all that things that can and are abused in game, most of those things are fixed by ignoring the abuses. If they decided to put this in game and you encounter someone being rude about your damage the same could be done. I just don't feel it's fair to say no to everyone that wants them due to a few bad apples. Who knows, the old dev team said no....but is a new ball game now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandonvi Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Well to be fair YOUR saying we should all suffer despite the idiots out there that will use it wrongly Why is your veiw so much mor eimportant then the other sides? I say no to damage meters as seen first hand how stupid people get around them and met a few players in game that already try to spout numbers like the bible and them with a damage meter would be a collussal disaster! They not required, good groups work togather and figure it all out with out the meters one of the big problems in the game right now is its honestly falling apart we have people leaving all over the place weather your a VERY high or very low end guild we ALL have people leaving because of this you cant just have "good groups work togeather and figure it all out with out the meters" while we could do that it would take hours to find it if one of our normal players is just having a bad day (which does happen some of them drop as much as 200 from day to day) or if its the new person really sucks I am sorry i dont want to suffer thru hours of wiping on hardmode EC because 1 person is sucking this is plain and simple if you dont want them turn it off for you even if they add them it would be just like everything else in the UI is now where it can be turned on and off the important thing is that it shares data between everyone weather they see it or not so the raid leaders (we have 3) know whats going on the idiots that dont know how to use a dps meter have never 1 time bothered me because almost every time i have met one i was 20-50% higher then there highest dps person a real group of good people use all the tools they can to help them and a dps/theat/healing meter is one of the best tools you can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I realize my opinion is just a fart in the wind, but I happen to like dps meters (as a dps). I installed mox a while back and started using it when I was running dailies and some such. I discovered I had a crap rotation, I was using the wrong abilities, and was spending a too much time using my free attack to "keep energy up" I fiddled with various rotations, tried out different gear combinations and lo and behold: my mox dps went up significantly. And then the magic happened: My raid group started doing better in operations. O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirata_Kal Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 DPS meters can indeed be useful tools. I, personally, am satisfied with the MOX parser. I use it to test out various rotations and some of our guild uses it in raids though it's not a requirement. Despite that, I lean toward agreeing with the crowd that says it isn't necessary. Too often, a dps meter is a griefing tool or epeen meter. In WoW, there were numerous times when we ended up kicking the top dps out of our raids because they tended to be d-bags to those who did less than them and often they weren't doing what was best for the raid at the time (raid awareness as some have mentioned). It was funny how often we'd wipe with one of those d-bags then replace him with someone who didn't do as much dps as him, but had better raid awareness and so we got the boss down on the next attempt lol. Come on Georg Zoeller ... help a brother out. OP, in case someone else hasn't already said it (I only skimmed the other posts), Georg isn't with Bioware anymore so he can't help you .... unless there's another piece of news that I've missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Those that know how to use them are not the problem, the idiots that don't are. There are more Idiots than those that know how to use a damage meter. Crux of the issue with dps meters inside MMOs right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folky Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Silly carebear raiders, damage meters are for kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 *buzzer sound* No. See what usually happens is that this "accountability" is usually in the form of a "group kick" instead of "educating someone" on how to "play better". Due to selfisheness and arogance of "leets" playing the "game". It's equally selfish of the under-preforming player to expect to be carried, or taught by people just wanting to complete an objective. It's really not very hard to get an elementary grasp on your class mechanics.,,I shouldn't be expected to stop and explain it to you....even if often times I will as a curtsey...I really resent when it becomes an expectation. To top it off, how many times have you tried to give advice to a player...only to have it thrown back at you? I know it's happened to me. Now you're an elitist or jerk for trying to educate a "noob," and telling them how to play their class, with in their game, that was paid for with their own money....or you're an elitest or jerk for just saying "to hell with it" and vote-kicking. People who don't want personal accountability in a group environment will ALWAYS find a way to deflect it within their own mind. The push-back against damage meters is just one example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) There is an implied level of expectation of people when you group with them in an MMO. What level of expectation that is though is highly subjective and in my opinion often very unfair. There needs to be compromise from both sides. Those who want to blast through content with a high level of efficiency need to find like minded individuals to do that with, and not expect every person in the game to have the same goal and be at the same level. (And to not refer to them as "bads" that really gets my goat) Those who take a more casual approach, need to at least try and work towards the objective and not spin around in a circle shouting "I'm a unicorn!" Both groups need to be polite and respectful. On the whole, the problem tends to be with people in the first group and not the second. I don't think including a damage meter helps either of the problems, in fact it makes it worse. Edited August 23, 2012 by Hessen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindikle Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Personal in game one Raid leader one No need for any other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 How about in game meters but with no possibility of reporting result on chat box. That way no spamming for kiki. How about making sharing your combat log with other optional, kinda like it is right now, but the sharing and merging process is handle by game client (or server) rather than some website or 3rd party software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I've been thinking about this as we have been discussing in our guild... and... I think I like the way things are now. We can choose the parser or meter of our choice. The best ones allow for group logs and they break things down by dps, threat, and heals. Incorporating it in the game would only serve as yet another source of QQ especially as it relates to group finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavar Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 No, just no. You don't need them to progress further in raids. I ran a successful raiding guild in WoW, and we didn't run damage meters. A good raid leader can tell who's pulling their weight, without them. Of course you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 There is an implied level of expectation of people when you group with them in an MMO. What level of expectation that is though is highly subjective and in my opinion often very unfair. There needs to be compromise from both sides. Those who want to blast through content with a high level of efficiency need to find like minded individuals to do that with, and not expect every person in the game to have the same goal and be at the same level. (And to not refer to them as "bads" that really gets my goat) Those who take a more casual approach, need to at least try and work towards the objective and not spin around in a circle shouting "I'm a unicorn!" Both groups need to be polite and respectful. On the whole, the problem tends to be with people in the first group and not the second. I don't think including a damage meter helps either of the problems, in fact it makes it worse. GW2 doesn't have any damage meters. There I just proved ur entire post invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 GW2 doesn't have any damage meters. There I just proved ur entire post invalid. to be fair, gw2 does not have raiding endgame as well. Most outdoor event seems to come closer to zerg rush than a perfectly executed choregraphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 to be fair, gw2 does not have raiding endgame as well. Most outdoor event seems to come closer to zerg rush than a perfectly executed choregraphy. It's still a MMO. He said most MMO's and DC didn't have them either. The wow addicted damage meters puppy's want theirs here and it's not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 oh, it's this again... Some people have "it" and some don't. Thus, the creation of meters. Some people can lead a raid in a way where they can watch health bars while recognizing the location of healers. To know who is doing what in order to determine if one is struggling over the other. Some people can lead so that while they complete their own role, they can watch the position of tanks and the flow of motions they make to recognize if one player hesitates (or is sluggish) with his motions over the other. Some people have the ability to process all the variety of hints and information (gear, character visual displays, speed of individual mob/trash kills, buff interactions) and mentally process the rating of DPS his individual members have. Some can form the trust and appreciation that their members will continue to work to improve ones self by educating and seeking more information in the mechanics of this game. Others prefer things to do that for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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