Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I still don't understand why people feel some sense of entitlement to the best gear in an MMO. Either way that's why GW2 looks cool, atleast it will shut up the QQ carebears. I shall defend the games PvP here vs. all those pesky RP'ing carebears!!! Cause yeah, someone has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahariel Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 You still don't get it do you? Without abolishing the gear disparity and making gear, for today's standards, such a grind to acquire, it is easy for people to quit trying. Because, you know, this is only a game and people don't have neither the time nor the motivation to spend 3 months playing casually to acquire gear to compete so that they can start to have fun. If you make the gear disparity disappear, you only leave skill as an excuse to quit trying. Well I guarantee you people are a lot more competitive then they are grind tolerant. So, you abolish gear grind for PvP and give more incentives for people to run RWs, such as establishing a web page where there are statistics for RW teams displayed, MVPs are selected based on performence, Showcase of RW matches that were so close it was nail biting, etc. Gear incentives for PvP DO NOT WORK. Understand that already. This is exactly why i play SC2 , the only difference between me and everyone else is skill . And before everyone else starts flaming me i am currently Gold League with a highest ever of Platinum League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahariel Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I shall defend the games PvP here vs. all those pesky RP'ing carebears!!! Cause yeah, someone has to. You do realize abolishing gear disparity has nothing to do with RP'ing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Be honest, the ONLY reason why peeps want this, is due to gear farming. Period. RWZ's are for cooridinated groups, I really have NO desire to read endless amounts of QQ on the forums how an 8man group wrecked 8 solo QQ'ers, as well as those carebears who are going to sit at a node and farm medals. Having solo ranked WZ's completely negates the reason for having regular WZ's, and I simply have not seen ONE valid reason to implement such an awful idea. I wish the carebears would stop asking for this, and miss the PvP types who don't have entitlement issues. /pvp_qq_end Yes. The only reason I want a solo "Ranked Queue" is so that I can farm WH gear since this is a gear-based game. Farming for gear is not fun. Gear progression is not fun. Teamwork and completing objectives are fun. I support any ideas that assist in limiting or eliminating the not fun so that everyone can get to an even footing for the actual fun. I also recognize that some people have been conditioned to experience pleasure center activation through grinding and I don't want to deprive them of their conditioned response. That's the main reason I try to avoid these debates, or at least remain completely objective with regard to what we are discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 You do realize abolishing gear disparity has nothing to do with RP'ing Not abolishing due to gear disparity, it's due to the entitlement issues these types always cry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coerCez Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 You do realize abolishing gear disparity has nothing to do with RP'ing He knws that. He is trying to say that because I play on a RP-PVP server, I know nothing about PvP. In reality I don't RP at all, and would be out of my server for another PvP competitive server in no time if I had the chance... Also, for the record, my toons are all over 18k HP and running best WH Enhancements... I stopped doing the grind for the WH Power mods bc it is becoming increasingly annoying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coerCez Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I still don't understand why people feel some sense of entitlement to the best gear in an MMO. Either way that's why GW2 looks cool, atleast it will shut up the QQ carebears. I don't want the best PvE gear and I don't deserve it. However, there should never be a gear disparity in PvP period. It doesn't make sense and it has no room in MMORPGs. The only progression in PvP should be in the ranks to see who are the top dogs and not in gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I have no sympathy for people who complain about not being able to run RWZ because of gear. RWZ is NOT for the causal player, it's for hardcore pvpers that want to see where they stand on the server. Casual player = regular wz and stop the QQ. Grind out war hero gear through regular wz like the rest of us did. I agree completely. And again, the same logic dictates that the normal queue is not for WH-augmented premades. They shouldn't even be allowed to queue. Let RWZ decide who's the best of the best. That's what it's for. Keep the soloists and the undergeared out. Couldn't agree more. However, RWZ are seriously lacking players and it's only going to take people longer to grind out the gear while constantly facing geared out teams in the normal queue and losing all the time. Edited August 22, 2012 by TheronFett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahariel Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Entitlement == Deserving of same or equal rewards by virtue of having same status regardless of any other factor than that status . For example : I am a human thus i have the right to breathe ( here being a human is the status and everything else is the other factors ) I am a paying player thus i have the right to a fair and competitive pvp environment without unfair gear disparity due to time spent ( here paying customer is the status and time spent is other factors ) People throw around words like entitlement and socialism like they are inherently evil . Hopefully after reading this you will realize entitlement is what allows you to live and thus it is not by default a bad thing If you were not entitled i would *********** climb through your window at night and pop you , you *********** waste of space and oxygen . Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deets Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 At first I thought it would be cool to make RWZ solo que. but it would suck because then it wouldn't be any different then regular wz. So if you made it to where you could solo que you might as well just get rid of ranked. I do however find it difficult to get in ranked but that's because my guild never does them. So I need to do something about it not bio ware. I also think that the gear tiers is good because you earn it and it's an accomplishment in the game. Not just something handed to you. If they just hand it to you, you might as well just be able to make a toon and it automatically be level 50. Yeah I get frustrated because I'm still in BM gear but I'm gonna earn my WH gear I don't want it handed to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 At first I thought it would be cool to make RWZ solo que. but it would suck because then it wouldn't be any different then regular wz. So if you made it to where you could solo que you might as well just get rid of ranked. I do however find it difficult to get in ranked but that's because my guild never does them. So I need to do something about it not bio ware. I also think that the gear tiers is good because you earn it and it's an accomplishment in the game. Not just something handed to you. If they just hand it to you, you might as well just be able to make a toon and it automatically be level 50. Yeah I get frustrated because I'm still in BM gear but I'm gonna earn my WH gear I don't want it handed to me. ^ Someone who gets it. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalifaHaze Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Entitlement == Deserving of same or equal rewards by virtue of having same status regardless of any other factor than that status . For example : I am a human thus i have the right to breathe ( here being a human is the status and everything else is the other factors ) I am a paying player thus i have the right to a fair and competitive pvp environment without unfair gear disparity due to time spent ( here paying customer is the status and time spent is other factors ) People throw around words like entitlement and socialism like they are inherently evil . Hopefully after reading this you will realize entitlement is what allows you to live and thus it is not by default a bad thing If you were not entitled i would *********** climb through your window at night and pop you , you *********** waste of space and oxygen . Have a nice day Being entitled to live is completely different than being entitled to the best pvp gear in a game that forces players to have pvp gear progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I agree completely. And again, the same logic dictates that the normal queue is not for WH-augmented premades. And Ranked WZ's shouldn't be open to those without full WH gear and a group. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deets Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 You have the right to earn your gear like everyone else. You think your the only one who get frustrated and pissed when you give all you got and die in 20 seconds and there health has barely moved? Your not, again your paying your dues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I always wondered why people would suggest this... maybe a ranked group finder could be used to fill a slot. But would you really want to pug a group into ranked queue's and get put up against a pre-made? LOL Pretty sure people would be better off playing regular WZ's for gear grinding. Getting handled that bad wouldn't get anyone many coms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Be honest, the ONLY reason why peeps want this, is due to gear farming. Period. No, I want to have something to strive for. I finished WH x 2 and stopped playing my main because I enjoy incentives in MMO's. A score is a great way to do this. Yes, you can whine if you play a premade but overall if you solo queue it should average out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) And Ranked WZ's shouldn't be open to those without full WH gear and a group. How's that? Problem is that in the game right now, you can queue up for randoms with your 4 man, fully augmented WH gear death squad and pretty much eliminate any chance of enjoyment for the 8 players on the other side. Essentially, your dedicated PvP players can intentionally queue up against your casual PvP players and will destroy them using primarily a statistical gear advantage (since skill isn't even necessary when you have that much of an advantage). As much as I hate the CoD franchise, they actually managed to put out a decent progression system with their leveling. While you get better things as you level up, a skilled level 1 will wipe the map with an unskilled level 80 because the stuff you get is primarily used to customize your play style and appearance, not to give you a statistical advantage over others. PvP is supposed to be about players versus players. Any system that offers statistical advantages to players is no longer PvP, it is instead PvE with PvP elements included. The people who want equalized gear are the PvP fans. The people who want gear progression are the hybrid (I call it Character versus Character or CvC) PvE fans. The people who want to fight NPCs in instances are true PvE fans. All three are perfectly acceptible game types. Just don't go insulting the other two by saying your preference is superior. Edited August 22, 2012 by Darth_Philar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Be honest, the ONLY reason why peeps want this, is due to gear farming. Period. Like many premade group did when Ranked WZ released. If Ranked WZ weren't meant to grind WH, why it is the way to have the comms that allow to buy it ? If the Ranked WZ where only for full WH geared guys, why even give them Ranked Comms that have no purpose for them since consummable are bought with regular comms ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalifaHaze Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Like many premade group did when Ranked WZ released. If Ranked WZ weren't meant to grind WH, why it is the way to have the comms that allow to buy it ? If the Ranked WZ where only for full WH geared guys, why even give them Ranked Comms that have no purpose for them since consummable are bought with regular comms ? The thing is they added RWZ comms into the game long before RWZ came out so that people could get full WH gear and face other teams making gear not an issue. But then with all the rerollers and new chars people make the system didn't work so well and thus the QQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 No, I want to have something to strive for. I finished WH x 2 and stopped playing my main because I enjoy incentives in MMO's. A score is a great way to do this. Yes, you can whine if you play a premade but overall if you solo queue it should average out. I think the reason Ranked WZ's came about in the first place, was to allow 8 man teams to compete against one another for the highest tier of PvP (regardless of gear you're wearing). By allowing solo queues to happen, it will effectively destroy the basic principle this was based on. I have no desire to wreck 8 solo player teams, any more than they wish to lose repeatedly. It's not fun for either side. Players have the capability to form 8 man groups, heck I even have a PUG sheet I created for our own server for peeps to sign on to, but at least it's thought out to somewhat have a chance. Solo queue'ing and watering down the highest tier of PvP is just a bad idea. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Problem is that in the game right now, you can queue up for randoms with your 4 man, fully augmented WH gear death squad and pretty much eliminate any chance of enjoyment for the 8 players on the other side. Essentially, your dedicated PvP players can intentionally queue up against your casual PvP players and will destroy them using primarily a statistical gear advantage (since skill isn't even necessary when you have that much of an advantage). As much as I hate the CoD franchise, they actually managed to put out a decent progression system with their leveling. While you get better things as you level up, a skilled level 1 will wipe the map with an unskilled level 80 because the stuff you get is primarily used to customize your play style and appearance, not to give you a statistical advantage over others. PvP is supposed to be about players versus players. Any system that offers statistical advantages to players is no longer PvP, it is instead PvE with PvP elements included. The people who want equalized gear are the PvP fans. The people who want gear progression are the hybrid (I call it Character versus Character or CvC) PvE fans. The people who want to fight NPCs in instances are true PvE fans. All three are perfectly acceptible game types. Just don't go insulting the other two by saying your preference is superior. I get the gear issue, but honestly a better idea for that is to petition the Dev team to find a new solution to this. If gear is the main culprit (which has been proven why the majority want solo ranked via posts), then it stands to reason the system perhaps needs to be looked into. I'm sorry the grind is long, but watering down the highest tier of PvP isn' the answer, for either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalifaHaze Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I get the gear issue, but honestly a better idea for that is to petition the Dev team to find a new solution to this. If gear is the main culprit (which has been proven why the majority want solo ranked via posts), then it stands to reason the system perhaps needs to be looked into. I'm sorry the grind is long, but watering down the highest tier of PvP isn' the answer, for either side. I wanna see people get to valor 100 then tell me the WH grind is long...rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) The thing is they added RWZ comms into the game long before RWZ came out so that people could get full WH gear and face other teams making gear not an issue. No, they released comms before RWZ only because RWZ release had been delayed while 1.3 patch and WH gear were still sheduled. They were supposed to be released at the same time, and they added the 3 per 1 rate change at the last time because if they didn't do so, it would have been new gear, but no way to acquire it (and they had no release date for RWZ). If BioWare's shedule didn't change at the last time, RWZ would have been the only way to acquire WH. Edited August 22, 2012 by Altheran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I wanna see people get to valor 100 then tell me the WH grind is long...rofl No doubt man, and I'm only at 93, those last 7 levels will be long lol. Although, I play 3 different toons a lot, and only have a few hours per day to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalifaHaze Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No, they released comms before RWZ only because RWZ release had been delayed while 1.3 patch and WH gear were still sheduled. They were supposed to be released at the same time, and they added the 3 per 1 rate change at the last time because if they didn't do so, they would have been new gear, but no way to acquire it (and they had no release date for RWZ). If BioWare 's shedule didn't change at the last time, RWZ would have been the only way to acquire WH. meh...either way I had time to farm out a full wh set before RWZ came into the game. Even casuals would have been able to get a few pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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