Talon_strikes Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Aside from the fact that they have already stated the game wont be P2W, it would never happen anyway simply because it would be a terrible business decision. Probably not for EA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabulousDoctor Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 EA's only comment that 'says' they'll be selling P2W gear specifically points out that it wont be any better than A. What you find in game or can get with time, and B. Wont even nearly stack up to end game stuff. I honestly wouldn't mind if EA put an orange dancer/slave costume into the Cash Shop, with a bunch of green mods. Hell, I think that would be the best way for EA to go for Cash Shop items, sticking the 'silly'ish and the 'good looking' items into the Cash Shop as oranges, even with no mods in it. I would pay to be able to run around in Trooper esque 'heavy' looking armor which is actually Light. I know many people who would run around in dancer costumes if they didn't need a security key or social 2 (which honestly isn't really possible nowadays except at endgame, or if you farm Black Talon.) If EA fails more in putting out the cash shop, it will be due to A. Overpricing everything, or/and B. Alienating subscribers by making them pay for what EA thinks is big, but what everyone else knows isn't. Such as the new planet. If the new planet adds 10 more levels and is actually a really giant planet that can get you through to level 60, then charging a subscription for it is fine. WoW added 10 levels for its first two expansions, and both added continents that were about half the size of Kalimdor or... that other one. Haven't played Cata or Pandarea, but I'm sure they didn't add that much more, being only five levels. But if the new planet is just a new World PVP thing like Ilum, or with no story, or with no new levels, or really with no reason to go to it, then don't charge for it, not from subscribers. That's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Aside from the fact that they have already stated the game wont be P2W, it would never happen anyway simply because it would be a terrible business decision. You've never read that EA execs quote about selling ammo clips to people that have run out of ammo (in Battlefield) for RL money I guess. Or indeed WARs P2W stat pet. EA is at best very open to P2W as a "business model". (for the record I agree P2W is a terrible business model, at best getting a very short term profit before the whole thing implodes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyer Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) P2W is a big issue and i wanted to put my 2 cents in. When they state it's going P2W, I shall take your 2 cents. And hey, you'll win! Edited August 22, 2012 by Journeyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alavastre Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The difference is that Rift actually is doing well. TOR, by EA's own admission, is not. When the very company that produced the game calls it both a disappointment and a miss, I'm not sure why even someone as ardent in their devotion to the cult as you would continue to insist that everything's peachy. That is a matter of degrees. This game isn't doing as well as they wanted it to do. I don't want to keep explain business to people, but when you drop millions of dollars, the bean counters have justify the expense, so they put together projections on how the game will be received. It is obvious that EA thought it would be a bigger hit than it is. That doesn't mean it isn't doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) P2W is a big issue and i wanted to put my 2 cents in. Basically, i think it will ruin the game because then all of the nooby 10 year old with rich parents will be able to pwn even the best players in pvp, be the best dps in ops, and do everything with their +300% damage boost gear that normal players wont be able to do. i do not believe any swtor player would want this, so all of you thinking it might be even a remotely good idea need to think seriously about the impact of p2w on normal skilled non rich players who just want to enjoy the game, including pvp and ops. Not to be obtuse, but everyone already knows why P2W is bad. We don't need a post stating the obvious. Edited August 22, 2012 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alavastre Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 You've never read that EA execs quote about selling ammo clips to people that have run out of ammo (in Battlefield) for RL money I guess. Or indeed WARs P2W stat pet. EA is at best very open to P2W as a "business model". (for the record I agree P2W is a terrible business model, at best getting a very short term profit before the whole thing implodes) They can try for sure. But I don't think it will go over well. As for P2W being a bad model, I doubt that. There was recently an article on IGN were they talk to the Asian MMO developers, and they basically say all their games are P2W. The problem we have here, is that we're used to the subscription base system, and people get angry when it's different. But all MMO's might end up being P2W in the end because you have people who would and want to spend more on your game, but your model doesn't allow the extra cash to come in. If anything, every MMO should have a cash shop, even if it's not P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 P2W is not a good or bad business model I think. But it definitely does not work for everyone. Which means there should always be games that do not use this model, for those that do not like P2W. Lets hope SWTOR will be such a game. I think a P2W model decreases the life expectancy and player numbers of a game but can get you a LOT more money per player if done right. (By right I mean in a way that I totally despise.) There are people paying hundreds of dollars/euro's a month for P2W games which can make up for a lot of people leaving the game. So yeah it could be quite profitable but it is also quite a risk as you dont know exactly how many people will leave, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) They can try for sure. But I don't think it will go over well. As for P2W being a bad model, I doubt that. There was recently an article on IGN were they talk to the Asian MMO developers, and they basically say all their games are P2W. The problem we have here, is that we're used to the subscription base system, and people get angry when it's different. But all MMO's might end up being P2W in the end because you have people who would and want to spend more on your game, but your model doesn't allow the extra cash to come in. If anything, every MMO should have a cash shop, even if it's not P2W. I can't see P2W going over any better than asian grind-model games do in the West (i.e. badly). I can see P2W going over well (in the short-term) in a socierty where such grind-model game do well. The problem with P2W is that it is just that pay to win, if you pay you win. Life is pay too win, however most people play games for fun and expect a level playing field, and unlike life if you don't get that you can just not play. If you can give me a good example of a Western P2W game that is doing well, then fair enough, but I don't think there is one. It's similar to games that allow aim-bots, they tank in the end, because everyone not using them leaves, leaving only the relative few that are using them, who then get bored because they are actually no on a level playing field with everyone else and they leave too. Edited August 22, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 P2W is not a good or bad business model I think. But it definitely does not work for everyone. Which means there should always be games that do not use this model, for those that do not like P2W. Lets hope SWTOR will be such a game. I think a P2W model decreases the life expectancy and player numbers of a game but can get you a LOT more money per player if done right. (By right I mean in a way that I totally despise.) There are people paying hundreds of dollars/euro's a month for P2W games which can make up for a lot of people leaving the game. So yeah it could be quite profitable but it is also quite a risk as you dont know exactly how many people will leave, I can't think of a P2W game that's done well. Sure there's a couple where it's kept the game limping along instead of closing, but that's not the same thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I can't think of a P2W game that's done well. Sure there's a couple where it's kept the game limping along instead of closing, but that's not the same thing at all. Thats mostly because they dont have many players compared to sub based MMO's. If you look around for Korean grinding MMO's (outspark for instance) you'll see that some of them are making far more money than they should, considering the quality of the games. And stay alive longer than they should as well btw. So they do relatively well in comparison to the effort put into it. Edited August 22, 2012 by Gokkus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleysRule Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 All these P2W threads are pathetic. Jeebus how about wait and see what's actually in the store before doomsaying? P2W games don't fair well in Western markets, and this game will receive its' well deserved death if they go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 P2W is a big issue and i wanted to put my 2 cents in. Basically, i think it will ruin the game because then all of the nooby 10 year old with rich parents will be able to pwn even the best players in pvp, be the best dps in ops, and do everything with their +300% damage boost gear that normal players wont be able to do. i do not believe any swtor player would want this, so all of you thinking it might be even a remotely good idea need to think seriously about the impact of p2w on normal skilled non rich players who just want to enjoy the game, including pvp and ops. They've stated that there will be leveling gear and possibly entry level 50 gear, but no top end gear. To provide top end gear would greatly affect subscription income so it would not be in their best interest to do so. In trying to maximize profit, the model they are moving with will allow them to tap both markets. Doing otherwise would be counter productive to the desired outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 P2W is not a good or bad business model I think. But it definitely does not work for everyone. Which means there should always be games that do not use this model, for those that do not like P2W. Lets hope SWTOR will be such a game. It is a bad business model in a game where they intend to tap both markets. Doing so would wipe one of those markets. The only way they could go with a P2W model is if they employed only the FTP model....which would end up changing the entirety of the game. It simply would not be profitable over the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 All these P2W threads are pathetic. Jeebus how about wait and see what's actually in the store before doomsaying? P2W games don't fair well in Western markets, and this game will receive its' well deserved death if they go that route. It's no use shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Life's not fair, nor is a video game. If they go P2W, so be it. If they stay F2P with cosmetics, so be it. They have research and focus groups and marking reports - you don't. BioWare and EA will make the best decision based on the market's need, not your little gripe. Focus groups and marketing research show a VERY narrow time frame in an MMOs life. Contrast the quick $ with P2W vs. W0Ws 8+ years of outrageous success with monthly sub fees, then tell me which model has more promise. MMOs are not about the short term. Sadly, MMO developers seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 All these P2W threads are pathetic. Jeebus how about wait and see what's actually in the store before doomsaying? P2W games don't fair well in Western markets, and this game will receive its' well deserved death if they go that route. They've stated clear enough that play to win will not occur. It is clearly evident that a P2W model will be counter productive to their desired outcome, so the chances of them changing their mind on this seems very unlikely not based on their "honor", but the business model they are seeking to achieve with this particular game. Everything else is merely the mind projection fallacy of posters on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleysRule Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It's no use shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. These threads tend to assume the cash shop is P2W. There is no evidence (yet) for this, and EA insists it will not be P2W, so they know it is not popular. Do I trust EA? NO, but they they are trying to turn this game around, a going with a model proven to fail in the West would be brain dead even for EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) They've stated clear enough that play to win will not occur. It is clearly evident that a P2W model will be counter productive to their desired outcome, so the chances of them changing their mind on this seems very unlikely not based on their "honor", but the business model they are seeking to achieve with this particular game. Everything else is merely the mind projection fallacy of posters on the board. ↑ ↑ ↑ This. ↑ ↑ ↑ Edited August 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nastynas Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Life's not fair, nor is a video game. If they go P2W, so be it. If they stay F2P with cosmetics, so be it. They have research and focus groups and marking reports - you don't. BioWare and EA will make the best decision based on the market's need, not your little gripe. If their research and marketing reports were accurate, the game wouldn't be in this state. Don't see why I should trust them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketthesaurus Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 EA has said there will be blue level items available to buy for sub 50 classes. It's only going to be a matter of time until they do it for level 50s Well, with the level cap being raised, that's not a big deal then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omisri Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 F2P will not ruin the game. The way Bioware handles it.... will ruin the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 These threads tend to assume the cash shop is P2W. There is no evidence (yet) for this, and EA insists it will not be P2W, so they know it is not popular. Do I trust EA? NO, but they they are trying to turn this game around, a going with a model proven to fail in the West would be brain dead even for EA. They (Bioware Devs and EA execs) are talking about it directly. And they've already done it in games like Warhammer Online (and it sold very, very well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 That is a matter of degrees. This game isn't doing as well as they wanted it to do. I don't want to keep explain business to people, but when you drop millions of dollars, the bean counters have justify the expense, so they put together projections on how the game will be received. It is obvious that EA thought it would be a bigger hit than it is. That doesn't mean it isn't doing well. So you're saying that despite the fact the game would not be profitable if it stayed subscriber-only, it's still doing well? That seems...a little absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 P2W is a big issue and i wanted to put my 2 cents in. Basically, i think it will ruin the game because then all of the nooby 10 year old with rich parents will be able to pwn even the best players in pvp, be the best dps in ops, and do everything with their +300% damage boost gear that normal players wont be able to do. i do not believe any swtor player would want this, so all of you thinking it might be even a remotely good idea need to think seriously about the impact of p2w on normal skilled non rich players who just want to enjoy the game, including pvp and ops. Sounds like you're jealous of 10 year olds with wealthy parents. P2W, if and when it comes, will ruin the game, but maybe not for the reason you gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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