I Am All For Pay To Win, Are You?

[Iron_Lord]

I'd rather pay for vanity items than grind a mission 100 times over several weeks.

I have the money, but not the time or patience.

 

If one can obtain the P2W items in game with daily grinds, then I don't see the problem. People who have the time can grind for it, others can just buy it. It does not give someone an advantage if they can just buy the same item, that someone else worked for.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Iron_Lord

[jgoldsack]

This thread is not about reworking of zones, its about whether or not one is for or against P2W. If EA thinks people would play for flying mounts, why wouldn't they rework the zones? This would be a business decision.

 

And yes, I am referring to items that are only accessible to CE owners that would give the purchaser advantage over other players in a PvP situation like Warzones or any open world PvP situation. I am not getting off my high horse. I paid for my 2 SWTOR CE games and I want access to exclusive items.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but it is highly doubtful CE players will ever get anything that will give them an advantage over another player. All items need to be equally available to everyone (if said item gives a stat/ability advantage), either by buying in the store, or granted via subscription.

 

just because you bought a CE does not give you the right to have a stat advantage over anyone else, that they cannot attain.

Edited August 21, 2012 by jgoldsack

[Fornix]

Specific P2W items I like:

PvP Stat boosts - Should be a no-go.

PvP XP boosts - This exactly, isn't quite a P2W item in my book, and I'd have no objections.

Exclusive CE armour with stats enhancements - As long as the stats enhancements are at best on par with current tier PvP gear or previous tier raiding gear, I have no objections.

Exclusive CE weapons with stats boosts - Same as the armor.

Flying mounts - Only if ingame obtainable alternatives exists, a diff skin of sorts is no issue.

Very fast speeders - The same as with the flying mounts.

Cartel coins - Uhm... what?

Datacrons which are difficult to get No objections to that.

 

Imo anything which allows more players to become involved in endgame gameplay is a plus. So if that means you can buy an "unlock lvl 50" and "rakata gear tokens" in order to join in on endgame raiding. Or can obtain "battlemaster tokens" in a similar fashion. I have no objections.

 

It doesn't hurt me to see additional players geared up and ready for the fight. Better yet, I benefit of it having a bigger selection of players to play with for raiding, and a bigger number of geared people in PvP not having to deal with that many players in mear recruit gear running around in the warzones.

 

In addition, I still believe the lvl 50 warzones should be tiered down further based on the expertise rating people have. This should also directly take care of the complaint that whoever buys their full battlemaster has the advantage, considering as to how you won't be facing them then anyway.

 

What I don't think should be introduced is items which actually have a direct impact on the outcome of the match, and are unobtainable by ingame means. Think higher level adrenals, med packs, etc.

 

For raiding purposes, I could care less. If they want to sell med packs which give you a one-time full HP replenishment during raids for 2 bucks a piece, fine by me. More money to them. It doesn't hurt me a single bit of people are using those sort of items. And considering as to how other's raid progression is the least of my concern, nor is their beating of a raid to be considered winning of any form, I could care less.

 

 

 

And I'm sure a lot of people will QQ over this, yet in the past years of advocating F2P in MMO's I've yet to encounter someone who can come with a valid argument on as to why bringing someone up to the same level as you or the allowing of items which enhance in a non-PvP environment are intrusive to their gameplay in any form in an MMO game. Usually the answer boils down to nothing more than e-pride and showboating.

[DarthOvertone]

If BW is serious about making Ranked War Zones an E-Sport, and Gabe Amantalego (sp?) has stated this ambition in interviews, then P2W has no place in this game's PvP.

 

I could care less about the PvE side of things. Let people P2W all they want in endgame raids and FPs for all I care.

[Urael]

This thread is not about reworking of zones, its about whether or not one is for or against P2W. If EA thinks people would play for flying mounts, why wouldn't they rework the zones? This would be a business decision.

 

And yes, I am referring to items that are only accessible to CE owners that would give the purchaser advantage over other players in a PvP situation like Warzones or any open world PvP situation. I am not getting off my high horse. I paid for my 2 SWTOR CE games and I want access to exclusive items.

 

OP you are being obstinate.

 

The comment about reworking the zones was apt to the flying mounts you think should be in the store.

 

While you are correct on the one hand that if EA/BW thought they would sell the planets would be reworked, you however, don't seem to realize that there has to be a return on investment that not only exceeds the cost but yeilds proffit. At this point EA/BW would be foolish to invest in completely changing the physics of the game. They need to work on improving what they currently have to a point where they stop loosing subscribers and actually increase subscribers (meh on the f2p crowd .. in the end if they are on fire for the game they will sub to support it .. if not they will leave).

 

The other point you are being obstinate on is the definition of Pay to win.

 

Pay to win is anything that gives one player and advantage over another player in end game only.

 

Those things would be things that either go above and beyond what is obtainable in the game and things that are only obtainable in the game for a considerable investment in time and experiencing difficult content to obtain.

 

Anything esle is a convienience. Period. It has no effect on the end game. If someone wants to ruin their leveling experience by rushing through the game with experience boosts, more power to them. They loose out on the inherent lessons gained through time spent learning to play their class. These people will be less skilled at the end game (unless they have previous experience from similar games).

 

Pay to win are things that effect End game competative PvP and End Game Raiding. Period.

 

If EA/BW goes Pay to Win, they might as well offer fully geared level cap characters that one can buy.

[Fornix]

If BW is serious about making Ranked War Zones an E-Sport, and Gabe Amantalego (sp?) has stated this ambition in interviews, then P2W has no place in this game's PvP.

 

If they're serious about turning it into an actual e-sport, they'll need a quick way to drive in thousands and thousands of additional players with currently most of their time invested in WoW.

 

They'll simply need to offer them characters at level cap with full battlemaster to pull them in and get started, as the grind towards there is what is currently stopping many.

[LadyDarkkitten]

I want to buy 300 bh coms and a full set of Bm gear. whats that you say $30 cool heres 90, I'll have 3.

[Tekell]

I am with everyone else that is a bad idea it takes the fun out of it and makes whoever has the most cash the best player. NO game should be like that.

[Talon_strikes]

What a stupid post.

 

Give EAWare all the money you want, but you'll be one of they very, very few standing in lesser-than-Light populated servers.

 

As for me, I'll be outta here in less than twelve parsec to even WoW... WoW!!

[CarverX]

Yep stupid post by somebody who likes to waste money.

 

The minute I see one P2W item, adrenal, gear item, weapon in the item mall I am gone.

 

We already paid WAY more for this now free game just 8 months ago.

[Urael]

Yep stupid post by somebody who likes to waste money.

 

Pretty sure we have been trolled tbh. Op is all over the other threads extolling the virtues of GW2 and how he has only X days left in this game.

[dinwitt]

I don't understand the outlash againt the idea of pay to win. Lets consider the extreme example of two players. Once has little to no obligations on his time, so he chooses to spend 10 hours of it a day in SW:TOR. He quickly reaches the pinnacle of each class in skill and gear, thanks to the large amount of time he is able to spend. No one complains about this man. But look at our other player. He has work and family and other obligations for a large majority of his day, meaning he can only spend at most 1 hour a day playing SW:TOR. He doesn't level up very fast, and once he does reach 50 he is left behind gear wise since he just doesn't have the time to learn the raids and get the gear. He loves the game, but is on the verge of quitting because he cannot participate in the game.

 

So tell me, why is it okay for the first player to leverage his lack of obligations into in-game success, but verboten for the second player to utilize his real life obligations to do the same?

 

And, in a completely unrelated question, free to play users will have limited pvp matches per day, meaning limited gains of pvp commendations and slower pvp gear acquisition. How is giving paying subscribers quicker access to better gear not pay to win? If pay to win is anything that gives one player an advantage in end game, how is unlimited war zones and access to operations for paying subscribers not pay to win?

[river_of_Gem]

So tell me, why is it okay for the first player to leverage his lack of obligations into in-game success, but verboten for the second player to utilize his real life obligations to do the same? This is a GAME, if you don't have time to PLAY it, dont expect to be as good as other ( unless you are a genius ), no matter how much you love this game. I am a student and if i didn't put enough effort / time into my study i won't have as good mark as my classmate ( unless i am a genius as well ), no matter how much i love my university ( LOL )

 

And, in a completely unrelated question, free to play users will have limited pvp matches per day, meaning limited gains of pvp commendations and slower pvp gear acquisition. How is giving paying subscribers quicker access to better gear not pay to win? If pay to win is anything that gives one player an advantage in end game, how is unlimited war zones and access to operations for paying subscribers not pay to win? Are you serious with that question ? Don't you know what's different between P2P and P2W ?

 

My 2 cent.

Edited August 21, 2012 by river_of_Gem

[Tuscad]

The second they had a P2W item I am gone. I am barely here to begin with these days, keeping my sub open just to see what happens.

 

^ I am with the Professor.

[Urael]

I don't understand the outlash againt the idea of pay to win. Lets consider the extreme example of two players. Once has little to no obligations on his time, so he chooses to spend 10 hours of it a day in SW:TOR. He quickly reaches the pinnacle of each class in skill and gear, thanks to the large amount of time he is able to spend. No one complains about this man. But look at our other player. He has work and family and other obligations for a large majority of his day, meaning he can only spend at most 1 hour a day playing SW:TOR. He doesn't level up very fast, and once he does reach 50 he is left behind gear wise since he just doesn't have the time to learn the raids and get the gear. He loves the game, but is on the verge of quitting because he cannot participate in the game.

 

So tell me, why is it okay for the first player to leverage his lack of obligations into in-game success, but verboten for the second player to utilize his real life obligations to do the same?

 

And, in a completely unrelated question, free to play users will have limited pvp matches per day, meaning limited gains of pvp commendations and slower pvp gear acquisition. How is giving paying subscribers quicker access to better gear not pay to win? If pay to win is anything that gives one player an advantage in end game, how is unlimited war zones and access to operations for paying subscribers not pay to win?

 

If you don't have as much time to play as another then you should get a booste? You want to penalize someone who actually works for what they achieve?

 

And you have the temerity to equate a "subscription" to "pay to win". A subscription knotes a sense of commitment. Someone who is a F2P is not necessarily a supporter. If one is really on fire for the game they sub to show support. Subs should not be penalized so as let mere dabblers gain the same bennefits.

 

You have to make priorities in life. If you don't have the time and or cash to play competetively at the high end of this game or any other then that is on you. The bar shouldn't be lowered to suit you. If anything it should be raised higher.

 

It's attitudes like this that not only bring down gaming but everything else in life to a state of mediocrity at best and a stinking dung heap at worste.

[Urael]

^ I am with the Professor.

 

Yeah he will be the Pied Piper and we will all march along to his tune.

[Tuscad]

Yeah he will be the Pied Piper and we will all march along to his tune.

 

and then EA will be schooled.

[Kanjir]

The only people who need p2w items are sh*t players, and i'd prefer if they left anyway.

[LaVolpex]

I agree.

 

It's pointless to play a P2W game. You might as well just base the game off who has the biggest bank account. Even though I could afford any thing they put on the cash shop it defeats the purpose of the game. It's like playing chest with the aid of a computer program.

 

hey blizzard did! look how that went...

 

im 99% sure OP is trolling or just flat out baiting for flames and drama

 

this thread serves no purpose

Edited August 21, 2012 by LaVolpex

[Urael]

this thread serves no purpose

 

Au contraire mon ami, this thread has been excellent for a slow day at work and a little forum PvP.

[thatghost]

P2W? Heck no:mad:

P2C? (C being Customize)Sure, if people want to spend money on vanity items I don't care, they aren't game breaking.

 

^This.

 

I don't give a fig about customizations, pets, mounts- I'll likely even spend my Coins on those things myself.

 

But the very second this game goes P2W: unsub.

[cerveau]

P2W is for ppl who have no skill, every1 knows this.....

 

paying a sub is not P2W, yes you get unlimited pvp, but you dont get stat boosts and better gear,

that would be p2w.

 

There will be no flying mounts for 2 reasons :

A) would invalidate the routes taken to get certain crons

B) they dont want you to be able to fly anywhere like in Wow, as the swtor world isnt seamless,

ie they dont want you going to places you're not supposed to, like the underneath of Nar Shaddaa for eg

 

as for the posts going on abt seeing IV in the 70s (dunno why they even mentioning it..)

I saw Star Wars at the cinema, the only reason it mentions episode 4 is cos of the BOOK,

the first 3 chapters were dropped from the film (they involve luke on Tat, with Fixer, wedge, cammie etc

real sw fans know this.

Edited August 21, 2012 by cerveau

[dahabs]

Firstly, I am not a troll and I am not writing this thread to get attention. I am an adult Star Wars fan who has seen Episode IV - VI in the cinema when they were first screened. I bought into the pre-launch hype and own two copies of SWTOR Collector's Edition, mainly due to the promised "exclusive" CE Store where I hoped to spend real money to buy "exclusive" virtual items. I stopped playing LOTRO for SWTOR and still have LOTRO credits in my LOTRO account.

 

I loved buying vanity items, pets different seasonal horses that are faster and stat and XP boosts in LOTRO and thought SWTOR would be the same, especially the CE store. I found out early in the game that we the CE store concept was only hype, but I gave BW some months to improve on it. I subbed for 6 month because of this and also because I enjoyed SWTOR at the pre-50 levels. I have just unsubbed due to various reasons which I discussed in another thread. However, I plan to pop in after they start the F2P just to have a look at the ingame store to see if there is any P2W items. If they are good enough, I might re-sub.

 

Specific P2W items I like:

PvP Stat boosts

PvP XP boosts

Exclusive CE armour with stats enhancements

Exclusive CE weapons with stats boosts

Flying mounts

Very fast speeders

Cartel coins

Datacrons which are difficult to get

 

Does anyone else like P2W items like I do?

 

id pay for vanity items,or perhaps faster leveling.but:leveling fast doesnt teach people how to play,or have things to do at max level..

 

if someone can "buy" gear thats bis....that pretty much imbalances skill vs gear.i could handle doing warzones against someone lvl 50 and im a 10,but if hes using stims bought his gear and isnt in a pug,skill goes out the window.

 

for me the game was ruined when ilum was accidently fixed,and broken .the lvls i earned and gear i grinded was surpassed in a day.for me its all about skilz,not the gear you have.what you ask will have costs.imagine you want to join a guild.they say omg your gimp you dont have any o that new gear came out last month.only costs 25$ ou poor?no guild 4 u.that sound good?

[dinwitt]

First of all, I do not have anyone in particular in mind for my person A and person B. Personally, my sniper is basically best in slot except for PvP relics because I don't PvP, and I'm not really interested in leveling more characters except as crafting alts.

 

That being said, lets get to my responses.

 

If you don't have as much time to play as another then you should get a booste? You want to penalize someone who actually works for what they achieve?

 

Why are you marginalizing the work that person B is doing? Just because it isn't in the game doesn't make it not important. If he wants to take the work he's been rewarded for, and translate that external reward into a reward from SW:TOR, why is he demonized for doing so? Letting him do that is in no way penalizing person A, as person A's rewards are still there and he was still willing to put in the time he did to obtain them. If the price cost and time cost aren't equivalent then there may be an issue, but thats beyond this discussion.

 

And you have the temerity to equate a "subscription" to "pay to win". A subscription knotes a sense of commitment. Someone who is a F2P is not necessarily a supporter. If one is really on fire for the game they sub to show support. Subs should not be penalized so as let mere dabblers gain the same bennefits.

 

So subscriptions aren't pay to win, they are commit to win? Does that mean we should only let six month subscribers access to Terror from Beyond for the first few months its out, since they're the most committed? How is someone who has spent $30 in the cash shop this month less committed than a one month subscriber who has cancelled and is riding out their final 29 days? Should we strip gear from people who complain on the forums, since they're clearly not supportive enough to deserve it? This idea that only people who've proven their support for the game should get the best rewards is a dangerous one and probably more damaging to the game's health than pay to win ever could be. And again, letting people pay a one time cash fee for the same rewards as the people paying cash monthly is in no way a penalty to the subscibers but an alternative means of advancement.

 

You have to make priorities in life. If you don't have the time and or cash to play competetively at the high end of this game or any other then that is on you. The bar shouldn't be lowered to suit you. If anything it should be raised higher.

 

My argument isn't letting people without the time or cash to play competitively. My argument is that people without the time but with the cash should have a chance.

 

It's attitudes like this that not only bring down gaming but everything else in life to a state of mediocrity at best and a stinking dung heap at worste.

 

This hyperbole is really unnecessary. Especially since you've hade to misunderstad my position to justify using it.

[Master-Nala]

Experience indicates that very few players actually quit when they add items to the cash shop that affect gameplay. I'm not going to argue that point with anyone, I'm just putting it out there because it's the truth.

 

"Pay to Win" is a loaded term. There's a thousand + definitions and no one agrees.