Costello Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I find it a little strange that there seems to be a high value on an unemployed junkie who plays a lot has some how earnt his gear cause he got it in game. Where as someone who has a job and a family and can't invest the same amount of time but purchases similar gear is a scum bag who is ruining the game. Pay to Win is a way of getting money out of people that are willing to pay and fund the games development just to get gear that people with more free time can get in game. Would I pay fifteen quid for some black hole gear that I can get in game. It depends if the 15 bucks is woth more or less than the time it takes repeating the content to earn it in game. Its a convenience where because of work I don't want to have to run 100 black hole weeklies or whatever but want to try out opps that without the gear I'm just a burden. Would I pay 15 bucks for a different looking speeder or pet. No. Unless it goes faster or BW make the game far more sand box like, standing around with a black Ark dog isn't important to me. Lets face it two seconds after seeing the new look of the pet it wont make the grind of black hole or campaign gear any nicer. Would I pay for purple level 1 to 48 gear, no cause it will quickly become useless. So why spend cash on something moments later would be either worthless or pointless. So I think BW will have to offer either unique options like flying mounts or Pay to Cut out End Game grind or they will have trouble selling lots to fund the development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heydiddlediddle Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 And I'm sure a lot of people will QQ over this, yet in the past years of advocating F2P in MMO's I've yet to encounter someone who can come with a valid argument on as to why bringing someone up to the same level as you or the allowing of items which enhance in a non-PvP environment are intrusive to their gameplay in any form in an MMO game. Usually the answer boils down to nothing more than e-pride and showboating. Can I QQ for you a little? Personally I like earning items in game, it's part of what makes it fun for me. Not that I have a huge objection to people buying the same items I guess, but it kinda depends. I mean lets say it takes me months of doing dailies or something to earn gear needed to do some raid/PvP/whatever content, and someone else pays like $40 and gets the stuff the very first day. So like I know we're both in the same gear and everything in the end, but if very few people are interested in doing the content by the time I earn my gear (old content is so old...) my months of dailies were a waste. It's kinda like you were betrayed by a hidden P2W system, which can almost be worse in my mind. I mean, I know its a grey area and all, but still I'm not sure that would be much fun; well just a thought. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrvojes Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 As far as PvP goes, if they actually made skill > gear in 50 pvp, I don't think anyone would mind P2W. It's a design fault, not a P2W thing. If all PvP was like 1-49, would you honestly care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitblade Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Not just No. HELL NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaPhone Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Paying for extra customization, and not for something to speed up the process of different parts wont work too well. If I am going to spend money in the cash shop it would be to make my experience more fun ofc, but for me that would be focusing on the content that I would want to do. So fast exp gains. The game is designed with rest exp and that is the problem. Some people do not like to play alts at the same time as playing other characters so they dont have rest to spread out with alts, while others play enough to play with rest exp gains that make the lvling quicker for the spread out times that they do play their game. So even though the game encourages and rewards people to play less by giving them rest exp, the rest exp should be something that can be added on top of the legacy perk and allow for others to play more at the same pace of a fast lvling experience. Also gear. If someone wants to buy gear for themselves, then they should be able to. Earning is fun, but also earning the real money to buy the item makes it valuable as well. Its peoples time, and how they would like to spend it. Is it fair to expect people in a pvp environment to farm comms to get WH gear just to begin to be able to play at the style that they want? Only with the right gear will a person truly be able to experiment with specs and see what works for them without the gear imbalance affecting the learning curve as well. So buying gear is not pay to win, its pay to play... actually. Since before getting the gear a person is barely playing and getting gear which apparently people enjoy the process of being the small fry in an environment that is the same skill wise with only a few WZ's but the gear difference is a matter of being king in shining armor or a peon in rags. So the environment is also limiting to set up a gear grind making it more of hassle when there should be ways to play that does not remind a person of thier gear disadvantage every-time they see another player. edit: Then the problem of lvling alts to get WH gear for them. BW needs to set up legacy pvp gear and all the accumulated time spent in pvp for all the characters unlocks legacy items for a price when reached at a certain lvl. Since expecting a person to get WH gear for more than one character, and then on top of that remind the player that an expansion will tell the player that they have to get more gear just to be able to play the game competitively, is too much. It becomes too much of a hassle. It kills the fun of the game since 8v8 is very gear dependent. Its fun, but expecting people to do that over and over again for alts and for expansions is a lot of work for them to begin to play at an equal level and try specs as well. Edited August 22, 2012 by VegaPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanikk Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Once bioware enables pay to win (buying end-game gear with $) then they have fallen to the darkside! EA is pulling the strings here and I really don't doubt EA would be greedy enough to do so if it would enable them a profit in the short term. Edited August 22, 2012 by Xanikk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeer Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No, I would be one of those to leave and not come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEmpress Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I have to say no, it's bad enough that they are already hurting crafters if they added blue gear/orange gear. This won't make me leave as people may still buy orange gear for different looks and to avoid spending real money. If it does become a fact I have to buy things with money to stay competitive then I'm out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comstrike Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I want fluff and fun. I hate leveling, don't PvP, don't bother with Warzones and ops, so they can leave out the rest. I subscribe and will continue, unless they try to bleed us too much. I'll pay for expansions. I also play LOTRO if they screw this up to badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 EA does. ^^this, and OP can pay on a ghost town server but no one left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickpArry Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 go play LOTRO or something then, the second any of the things on your list come true i am leaving. you are the only person i have ever seen who would want that!!! that would ruin the entire game!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comstrike Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 go play LOTRO or something then, the second any of the things on your list come true i am leaving. you are the only person i have ever seen who would want that!!! that would ruin the entire game!!!! I like the community in LOTRO better too. I don't see where my wanting fluff and fun stuff hurts you. And I didn't even say I want the gear junk they'll likely sell anyway. Regardless, I have three monitors and a massive GPU, so I typically am logged into LOTRO and SWTOR at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickpArry Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I like the community in LOTRO better too. I don't see where my wanting fluff and fun stuff hurts you. And I didn't even say I want the gear junk they'll likely sell anyway. Regardless, I have three monitors and a massive GPU, so I typically am logged into LOTRO and SWTOR at the same time. when did i say fluff stuff was bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comstrike Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 go play LOTRO or something then, the second any of the things on your list come true i am leaving. you are the only person i have ever seen who would want that!!! that would ruin the entire game!!!! Right about there, what else would you be talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratior Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I agree with Comstrike that the LOTRO community is much better. That's why I have not uninstalled LOTRO and still have some credits left there. Also the LOTRO forums can discuss matters in a mature manner, using logic and reason as opposed to raw emotions. As for me, I can't 100% say that the overall negativeness of the community here in SWTOR forum and ingame did not have any effect on my decision to unsub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 well if it goes pay to win you guys can all come in and play my mmorpg I am making Cryengine 3 is the engine and it's going to be revolutionary. An idea can spark a revolution. Here I come baby! Makin my dream! No pay to win for SWTOR for me though. If it does, sadly....it would be hard, but I would leave. Psstt...if anyone is interested in helping me make my mmorpg, pm me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I bought into the pre-launch hype and own two copies of SWTOR Collector's Edition, mainly due to the promised "exclusive" CE Store where I hoped to spend real money to buy "exclusive" virtual items. Why would you buy 2 CE versions of the game "mainly" because of the store? You wouldn't need to 2 versions of the game for that. Also, you didn't do much research before you spent your money because it was made clear before launch that the CE store would basically have vanity and cosmetic items, not any P2W items. Also, it was made clear that the CE store would not be a "real money" store. Also, XP boosts aren't really "pay to win". They are "pay to level faster". That's hardly "winning". There's several sources out there from interviews, etc. where they've said they aren't going to make the game pay to win, so I wouldn't hold your breath there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratior Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Why would you buy 2 CE versions of the game "mainly" because of the store? You wouldn't need to 2 versions of the game for that. Also, you didn't do much research before you spent your money because it was made clear before launch that the CE store would basically have vanity and cosmetic items, not any P2W items. Also, it was made clear that the CE store would not be a "real money" store. Also, XP boosts aren't really "pay to win". They are "pay to level faster". That's hardly "winning". There's several sources out there from interviews, etc. where they've said they aren't going to make the game pay to win, so I wouldn't hold your breath there. I bought 2 copies of CE to ensure that I get at least one copy of CE. Its for insurance. I live in an Asian country and at that time Amazon had run out of CE copies. Had to get a relative from a neighbouring country to buy for me. Long story which I discussed in another thread. I knew that the CE store did not have any real money items, but anything can change in an MMORPG. I knew that. XP boosts are P2W for me. And these are the things that I would like to see in any MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharleyDanger Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Damn it! I wish I had a better memory. I listened to a podcast, maybe it was TorWars, and they were talking about P2W. Apparently a guy from Bioware gave an interview to this German MMO podcaster. The German guy brought the idea of P2W up. The guy from Bioware said that P2W would be a disaster in a game like SWTOR. He went on to say it would never happen. ****! I wish I could give a link, but I would put a large sum of money on SWTOR not being P2W. Edited August 22, 2012 by CharleyDanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 MMOs all have one major drive that keeps people playing them, and it isnt doing new and exciting content, its getting the newmore powerful and coller looking gear. Some people may say thats not why they play but they are either lying to themselves, ignorant or in the very small minority. The second you let anyone just buy the gear other people put time in to get, the game is going to die, and i dont mean dead like it is now, i mean really dead as in 15 people still play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Damn it! I wish I had a better memory. I listened to a podcast, maybe it was TorWars, and they were talking about P2W. Apparently a guy from Bioware gave an interview to this German MMO podcaster. The German guy brought the idea of P2W up. The guy from Bioware said that P2W would be a disaster in a game like SWTOR. He went on to say it would never happen. ****! I wish I could give a link, but I would put a large sum of money on SWTOR not being P2W. Well, if a guy from EA said it, it must be true. EA, after all, is a company renowned for its honesty, integrity, and its relentless commitment to playing fair with the customer. Never in its history has it indulged in a shameless cash grab to the detriment of its own or someone else's IP, and it has always done its utmost to support and expand its MMO lineup through the most player-friendly means available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uwel Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I don't understand the outlash againt the idea of pay to win. Lets consider the extreme example of two players. Once has little to no obligations on his time, so he chooses to spend 10 hours of it a day in SW:TOR. He quickly reaches the pinnacle of each class in skill and gear, thanks to the large amount of time he is able to spend. No one complains about this man. But look at our other player. He has work and family and other obligations for a large majority of his day, meaning he can only spend at most 1 hour a day playing SW:TOR. He doesn't level up very fast, and once he does reach 50 he is left behind gear wise since he just doesn't have the time to learn the raids and get the gear. He loves the game, but is on the verge of quitting because he cannot participate in the game. So tell me, why is it okay for the first player to leverage his lack of obligations into in-game success, but verboten for the second player to utilize his real life obligations to do the same? And, in a completely unrelated question, free to play users will have limited pvp matches per day, meaning limited gains of pvp commendations and slower pvp gear acquisition. How is giving paying subscribers quicker access to better gear not pay to win? If pay to win is anything that gives one player an advantage in end game, how is unlimited war zones and access to operations for paying subscribers not pay to win? You love examples? Here's one: There's an Average Joe (the guy who work hard to get items) who is working for a company for 10 years now. He have high hopes to get his deserved promotion. One week before the announcement a new guy start at the company, it's well known he is a childhood friend of the boss (the player who buy p2w items). The announcement day, of course the friend gets the promotion. How would you feel yoursel in the shoes of Average Joe? Because in your reading it's absolutely acceptable There's an excuse for the promotion (he's my friend), and there's an excuse to make the guys' hard work into sh*t. I see no difference. End... For me, it's absolutely unacceptable even the slightes boost against other players. Doesn't matter if it's pvp or pve. We talk about cosmetic now, but I bet it'll change in no time. But they already started to feed us poop with the monthly cartel coins for subscribers bs, and that's just the beginning. Sorry, I'm very frustrated, because this is the only game i play (because of it's Star Wars and all that thing), and i know i can't continue to play it anymore if it goes p2w (and it will). If they make subscriber only servers without cartel shop (or only REAL cosmetics), that would be another story, but it'll never happens... Edited August 22, 2012 by Uwel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rammstein Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 MMOs all have one major drive that keeps people playing them, and it isnt doing new and exciting content, its getting the newmore powerful and coller looking gear. Some people may say thats not why they play but they are either lying to themselves, ignorant or in the very small minority. The second you let anyone just buy the gear other people put time in to get, the game is going to die, and i dont mean dead like it is now, i mean really dead as in 15 people still play it. What they should do is just sell orange gear shells in the cash shop. That way there are no stats linked to them and people can customize their appearance with new outfits. I know this won't be the case though since they've talked about blue level gear being sold but that is far from BiS anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakoz Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Firstly, I am not a troll Oh yes you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaApacHe Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I'd rather choose Champions Online method of F2P. If you are a premium member (subbed) you win, if you are a f2p player you have to pay a lot to be quite close to me but not equal. Edited August 22, 2012 by NinjaApacHe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts