They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[Goretzu]

But if you've bought it in the cash shop then why should it be removed?

 

Yes you will lose access to your extra slots, bank tabs etc, because they were available as part of the early game i.e. you haven't bought them in the cash shop.

 

All BW have said so far is certain things will be restricted from the current game.

 

Because as a subscriber you won't have bought it in the cash shop, it'll will be in with your subscription instead...... so when (or if) you stop your sub you'll then lose them (unless you buy them again).

 

They've stated that accounts that move from subscription to F2P will lose things like character slots, number of bank vaults etc. unless they buy them back through the cashshop again.

[mothear]

Because as a subscriber you won't have bought it in the cash shop, it'll will be in with your subscription instead...... so when (or if) you stop your sub you'll then lose them (unless you buy them again).

 

They've stated that accounts that move from subscription to F2P will lose things like character slots, number of bank vaults etc. unless they buy them back through the cashshop again.

 

Isn't that what I'm saying?

 

Why do you you would lose anything you buy from the shop (assuming for one moment they follow the method in Discosoc's post) when you revert to your F2P account.

 

Edit - OK I think I get you. OK how long do you have to subscribe to retain these benefits, otherwise someone could subscribe for one month and get the lot?

Edited August 20, 2012 by mothear

[Goretzu]

Isn't that what I'm saying?

 

Why do you you would lose anything you buy from the shop (assuming for one moment they follow the method in Discosoc's post) when you revert to your F2P account.

 

Because access through a sub isn't the same thing as buying it in the cashshop as a F2Per in that model, as soon as you stop subbing you lose it (apperently).

 

You only have access when you sub, unless you ALSO buy it in the cashshop.

 

In fact the aren't even clear as to whether you'll have "full" or "limited" access to anything you do buy in the cashshop as a F2Per.

[mothear]

Because access through a sub isn't the same thing as buying it in the cashshop as a F2Per in that model, as soon as you stop subbing you lose it (apperently).

 

You only have access when you sub, unless you ALSO buy it in the cashshop.

 

In fact the aren't even clear as to whether you'll have "full" or "limited" access to anything you do buy in the cashshop as a F2Per.

 

Because in the suggested model you would buy in with your cartel coins

 

Here's what you can probably expect:

 

 

3. New content comes out, such as Makeb B and additional player levels. It's available for purchase on the cash shop. If you subscribed and didn't spend your free CP on other stuff, you just use them to purchase the new content. If you don't subscribe, you pay out real money for the content.

[Raynn]

But if you think about it, you are going to pay. Everyone does. What do you think the Cartel Coins are for? To purchase stuff. As subscribers, if we where never expected to pay for anything, what would be the point in giving us coins every month? Our subscription covers all aspects of the game and gives us a monthly dose of coins. If the planet costs us 500 Cartel Coins, who cares? We get them right now every month for subscribing. Non sub players will have to purchase the coins, hence charging coins for the planet, those f2p people will be "buying" it. The rest of us will get the planet with our coins that given to us every month from our sub. If it ends up working like this, I fail to see the issue with it. Im not going to buy vanity items with my coins, what else would I spend them on? And if I have nothing to spend them on, then what's the point in giving them to us?

 

Apparenlty you've never played STO or LOTRO in their F2P model. They give 'coins' every month as well. When they charge 700 coins for a simple outfit in the cash store and your monthly allotment of coins is only 400 for a paying sub......well....you do the math. And thats just frigging clothes. The still charge for their expansion pacs. This is a simple cash grab by EA before they pull the plug on SWTOR. They have no clue on how to run an MMO and their biggest mistake was trying to beat WoW with a WoW-like game. I love the Star Wars IP and its why I still play, but the MMO community is rough and most peeps won't stay simply for an IP. It's now August and EV is still plagued with buggy content (won't even go into HM EC, lag is the new Nightmare mode for EC). For the begining ops/raids to still have the amount of bugs they do 8 months after release is pretty sad.

[Goretzu]

Because in the suggested model you would buy in with your cartel coins

 

Except that is NOT what they are saying will happen with a sub.

 

They are not saying "we will give you enough coins to buy all the content you already have as a subscriber outright".

 

In fact they are saying quite the opposite, that as a subscriber that goes F2P you WILL lose access to content (and other things) and be "limited" instead.

 

So as a subscriber you only have access to the content as long as you remain a subscriber, unless you buy it twice effectively.

[Wayshuba]

 

Edit. - Yes you will lose access to the Ops that you haven't bought from the cash shop

 

Which is complete and utter BS considering we all already PAID for these when we bought the boxed game and in the subs fees we paid when they dropped in the game. For six months of sub fees ($90) we got one Op (EC), one WZ (Denova) and two FPs (Koan and LI). Also, in the boxed game price we got 8 character slots. Now they are going to take some away? Now EA is saying if you don't continue to pay, you will lose them, even though you already paid for them. This is exactly why I am permanently done with the game on 9-17 and permanently done with anything ever by EA. I am done with them as a customer period.

 

In LOTRO, they at least kept ALL the content you had already paid for. EA, on the other hand, is taking it away.

 

I won't say the word, but there is a nasty word for what exactly this is.

[pocketthesaurus]

I know the fans will come in and say... well its an expansion, of course we should pay extra for it. Sorry but 1 planet and a 5 level increase is not an expansion. Its a way to justify milking more money. This is the type of content that we should have gotten all along.

That is an expansion.

 

WoW is getting one new area and 5 levels. That is an expansion.

[Soluss]

Source your quote or it's hear say.

 

If you quote something, it is YOUR responsibility to source your quote.

 

Its been sourced all over the forums my good man.

[mothear]

Except that is NOT what they are saying will happen with a sub.

 

They are not saying "we will give you enough coins to buy all the content you already have as a subscriber outright".

 

In fact they are saying quite the opposite, that as a subscriber that goes F2P you WILL lose access to content (and other things) and be "limited" instead.

 

So as a subscriber you only have access to the content as long as you remain a subscriber, unless you buy it twice effectively.

 

Why would they, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying if they make you purchase the expansions/quest hubs etc with your cartel points it will effectively be free as a subscriber. If you then go free to play you would keep what you bought and lose whatever you are supposed to in the current game.

 

In stickied threads they say you will have no access to Op's (although it appears you may get the first one), limited FP's/Wz. That is the content you will lose, not Makeb etc that you bought with cartel coins

 

What do you want the ability to buy everything with free cartel coins so you can unsub and have the same experience in F2P?

[mothear]

That is an expansion.

 

WoW is getting one new area and 5 levels. That is an expansion.

 

They are giving much more content than that. Oh and one continent in WoW does not one planet make.

[Soluss]

Because access through a sub isn't the same thing as buying it in the cashshop as a F2Per in that model, as soon as you stop subbing you lose it (apperently).

 

You only have access when you sub, unless you ALSO buy it in the cashshop.

 

In fact the aren't even clear as to whether you'll have "full" or "limited" access to anything you do buy in the cashshop as a F2Per.

 

Dont you think that as a subscriber, if you drop your sub you should maintain everything? I mean you pay 15 bucks a month for about a year, by the time F2P hits. I think that should be counting as paid for it. If not then would it not seem that F2P be the better model? Even if you count 10 months paid then you paid 150 bucks. If you unsubscribe you lose access to all that stuff. If you were F2P... you probably pay about 40 bucks and always have access to it.

[discosoc]

But how do they justify removing content from subscribers one they stop subbing?

 

Under the LOTRO model subscribers KEPT all the content they had when they were subscribers once the game went F2P.

 

SWTOR is saying it will remove content from subscribers that stop subbing.

 

Which again makes it seem like a gouging have your cake and eat it model (for EA), by trying to hit players for stuff they should already own.

 

Currently, you don't own anything. You haven't purchased anything. Your access to this game, right now, is nonexistent if you don't have an active subscription. That is how a subscription-based MMO works.

[Soluss]

That is an expansion.

 

WoW is getting one new area and 5 levels. That is an expansion.

 

1 planet with 2 days worth of content and 5 levels does not an expansion make. Look at Rifts new expansion. It will triple the size of the base game. It has a ton of features. 4 new classes. Housing, dungeons, raids, new abilty points, collections, upgraded crafting, new achievements. etc etc Thats an expansion. Makeb is a content update.

 

Wows expansion is also getting alot more then just one new area.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Soluss

[Soluss]

Currently, you don't own anything. You haven't purchased anything. Your access to this game, right now, is nonexistent if you don't have an active subscription. That is how a subscription-based MMO works.

 

Lotros model is the same F2P model that TOR will be based on. Look at that game that let you keep the content.

[Wayshuba]

Currently, you don't own anything. You haven't purchased anything. Your access to this game, right now, is nonexistent if you don't have an active subscription. That is how a subscription-based MMO works.

 

100% wrong!!!!

 

You have BOUGHT a boxed game and therefore do own it. Sorry, the sub is for access to the servers which they are now about to make free. F2Pers, on the other hand, won't have to buy the game as everyone here already has.

[mothear]

Lotros model is the same F2P model that TOR will be based on. Look at that game that let you keep the content.

 

I don't know about LOTRO in terms of slots, bag space etc. (never played it) but as far as questing content, yes they have let you keep it because I just looked at their shop and original content has to be bought by F2Pers. BW seem to be saying that they are giving all 1-50 questing/class stories for free to all.

[Bojangle]

I know the fans will come in and say... well its an expansion, of course we should pay extra for it. Sorry but 1 planet and a 5 level increase is not an expansion. Its a way to justify milking more money. This is the type of content that we should have gotten all along.

Depends on the cost. What if it was only $10? That is worth it. WoW's expansions are are $40 and you only gain 5 levels also and 1 new zone. So how is it really different? Sure ToR's would be smaller hence the cheaper price. Also I am sure there will be more then just the 1 Operation in time for the "expansion" if that's how we want to call it. But until there is a price on anything for subs, there is no need to really whine or cry about it.

[Taorus]

100% wrong!!!!

 

You have BOUGHT a boxed game and therefore do own it. Sorry, the sub is for access to the servers which they are now about to make free. F2Pers, on the other hand, won't have to buy the game as everyone here already has.

 

Wow...another person who failed to actually read the ToS before they spammed the character screen.

[Wayshuba]

Wow...another person who failed to actually read the ToS before they spammed the character screen.

 

No I didn't, I've linked to it. Terms of Service are for the sub fee. The End User License Agreement (EUALA) is for the boxed game you bought itself.

 

That being said, we currently pay a sub fee under the ToS for content that was purchased under the EUALA. Now, they are making the servers (and the initial game) free, where F2Pers have to buy the content like we did when we purchased the boxed game.

 

But, since I have indeed read them, here:

 

To gain access to the Software, you must: (a) have acquired the Software (whether on DVD-ROM, CD-ROM or other physical media or by digital download) by legal means; (b) have installed the Software on your computer; © have a valid Star Wars: The Old Republic ("SWTOR") account and accept the EA Privacy Policy, Terms of Service and SWTOR Rules of Conduct (available at http://www.swtor.com); (d) agree to share your account and game play information (but not any of your billing information) with EA’s licensor, LucasArts, a division of Lucasfilm Entertainment Company Ltd. ("LucasArts"); and (e) have accepted this EUALA.

 

As you can see, we have (a) purchased the game (b) and installed it and, once free to play and server access is free we will all have met the conditions of © having an account (not a sub, mind you but an account).

 

Under the Terms of Service, for your sub fee, you are entitled to the following:

 

3. Entitlements

 

"Entitlements" are licensed rights granted, awarded, provided and/or purchased by you to access and/or use online or off-line elements or features of EA Services and/or products. Entitlements include but are not limited to paid and free downloadable content, unlockable content, digital and/or virtual assets, rights of use tied to unlock keys or codes, serial codes and/or online authentication of any kind, in-game achievements and virtual or fictional currency not otherwise governed by a Digital Services Agreement

 

So they are in fact contractually pulling from their current obligations under content you have already purchased both from the EUALA and under the Terms of Service.

 

Don't even begin to try and justify how subscribers since day one who paid $60 for the game and $150 in sub fees ($210) total by the time F2P drops deserve to lose a single thing they have paid for up until that point just because they opt to use F2P from that point forward.

 

To make matters worse, and F2Per will be able to by an Op once, just once, while subscribers are expected to keep paying for it month after month after month. Let's say they decide to charge $5 for FPs and $10 for Ops. An F2Per comes in, plays for free, the spends $50 on FPs and $20 for Ops and they have the whole kit and kaboodle for $70 permanently while all subscribers continue to pay for it monthly, over and over and over again.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Wayshuba

[discosoc]

Lotros model is the same F2P model that TOR will be based on. Look at that game that let you keep the content.

 

People forget that by the time LotRO went F2P, it had 3 years of free updates (called books) and 1 paid expansion under it's belt. Even then, they didn't give everything away for free during the transition. The core game because free, albeit with limited features like bag space and gold caps, but it was free. Any sort of end-game or use of expansion quests or areas still required a purchase.

 

The one thing subscribers got for "free" was Mines of Moria, assuming they had already paid for the expansion as a subscriber. Everyone else had to purchase it with TP.

[discosoc]

No I didn't, I've linked to it. Terms of Service are for the sub fee. The End User License Agreement (EUALA) is for the boxed game you bought itself.

 

That being said, we currently pay a sub fee under the ToS for content that was purchased under the EUALA. Now, they are making the servers (and the initial game) free, where F2Pers have to buy the content like we did when we purchased the boxed game.

 

But, since I have indeed read them, here:

 

To gain access to the Software, you must: (a) have acquired the Software (whether on DVD-ROM, CD-ROM or other physical media or by digital download) by legal means; (b) have installed the Software on your computer; © have a valid Star Wars: The Old Republic ("SWTOR") account and accept the EA Privacy Policy, Terms of Service and SWTOR Rules of Conduct (available at http://www.swtor.com); (d) agree to share your account and game play information (but not any of your billing information) with EA’s licensor, LucasArts, a division of Lucasfilm Entertainment Company Ltd. ("LucasArts"); and (e) have accepted this EUALA.

 

As you can see, we have (a) purchased the game (b) and installed it and, once free to play and server access is free we will all have met the conditions of © having an account (not a sub, mind you but an account).

 

So they are in fact contractually pulling from their current obligations under content you have already purchased.

 

That is incorrect, or at least not an accurate argument. Read section 14 for more information.

[Goretzu]

Why would they, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying if they make you purchase the expansions/quest hubs etc with your cartel points it will effectively be free as a subscriber. If you then go free to play you would keep what you bought and lose whatever you are supposed to in the current game.

 

In stickied threads they say you will have no access to Op's (although it appears you may get the first one), limited FP's/Wz. That is the content you will lose, not Makeb etc that you bought with cartel coins

 

What do you want the ability to buy everything with free cartel coins so you can unsub and have the same experience in F2P?

 

But as things stand they won't be giving you coins to purchase them as a subscriber, they'll simply be giving you access as long as you ARE a subscriber.

 

Unlike LOTRO where you got the content you already had.

[SikrouDeco]

I know the fans will come in and say... well its an expansion, of course we should pay extra for it. Sorry but 1 planet and a 5 level increase is not an expansion. Its a way to justify milking more money. This is the type of content that we should have gotten all along.

 

BW has bills to pay, employees to pay, stockholders to please.. you are going to pay for expansions. Sure once in a while there may be a freebie for paid subs, but it's totally acceptable top buy expansions or do without. That said they need to be good expansions, with at least 50 to 60 hours of playime or more needed to complete. If players can finish them in a weekend, then that would be bogus if they cost the usual $40.00 to $50.00. If anyone needs a frame of reference, Dragon Age origins (pc game from bioware) could be finished in a weekend (if you did not do side quests).

Edited August 20, 2012 by SikrouDeco

[Goretzu]

People forget that by the time LotRO went F2P, it had 3 years of free updates (called books) and 1 paid expansion under it's belt. Even then, they didn't give everything away for free during the transition. The core game because free, albeit with limited features like bag space and gold caps, but it was free. Any sort of end-game or use of expansion quests or areas still required a purchase.

 

The one thing subscribers got for "free" was Mines of Moria, assuming they had already paid for the expansion as a subscriber. Everyone else had to purchase it with TP.

 

It had 2 paid expansions by the time it went F2P, the 2nd was just before it went F2P.

 

But people that had bought all that got to keep all that.

 

The also got to keep free zones that had been brought in as part of the books IIRC.