They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[Diktat]

But if you think about it, you are going to pay. Everyone does. What do you think the Cartel Coins are for? To purchase stuff. As subscribers, if we where never expected to pay for anything, what would be the point in giving us coins every month? Our subscription covers all aspects of the game and gives us a monthly dose of coins. If the planet costs us 500 Cartel Coins, who cares? We get them right now every month for subscribing. Non sub players will have to purchase the coins, hence charging coins for the planet, those f2p people will be "buying" it. The rest of us will get the planet with our coins that given to us every month from our sub. If it ends up working like this, I fail to see the issue with it. Im not going to buy vanity items with my coins, what else would I spend them on? And if I have nothing to spend them on, then what's the point in giving them to us?

Unless coins can be exchanged for credit (somthing is not clear yet) the monthly stipend is a double charge for a player, because things you should be able to buy with credits (XP boosters, for example) as subscriber, will be only available through coins, i.e., your real money. Don't be fooled by that virtual currency. It is directly linked to your real money thus each time you spend coins you are spending real money. If you pays coins for makeb you are speanding the equivalent in real money for makeb. Is that simple.

[Lord_Karsk]

Simplel, if they charge me for Makeb when i pay a monthly sub they will lose me and ALOT of subs !!!!

If someone have to pay for content as a sub then it's bye bye. The era for paying for content as a subscriver is over.

So yeah dont be to greedy EA because if you do you will lose more money.

[aeterno]

I hope the devs get this message loud and clear... I'd hope the community team alerts them to this sentiment.

 

F2P/subscriber hybrid is ok untill you start nickel and dimming your subscriber base.

 

I'll give you a subscription and pay for 2.0 expansion. I'll even stomach the fact my subscription goes towards developing mostly f2p stuff. If you start milking me for cash additional to the subscription fee however, I'm tapping out.

 

And I wager a large chunk of subscribers feel the same way.

 

In a game where you have the f2p and subscriber option where both get milked via cash shop only idiots would stay subscribed. It's a tightrope jeff. A friggin tightrope. I'm willing to stay subscribed through thick and thing but if you think you can take me for the proverbial monetizing ride you've got another unsub coming. And at that stage I aint sticking around in a f2p capacity either.

Edited August 19, 2012 by aeterno

[FeelFlow]

It should work like this:

 

Subscribers get EVERYTHING for free

F2Pers have to pay for certain game systems and content - including things like new planets.

 

Trying to milk subscribers for additional content is a really bad move.

 

I get it that you might have systems where subscribers' cartel coins (subs are being given x amount of coins per months, I think?) might go towards things like new character slots, appearance changes - i.e. so that subscribers don't abuse these systems - but asking them to pay more cash for more content on top of that is a REALLY bad move.

 

Just make it so that it's always worth your while to subscribe to the game if you play it regularly and encourage people to subscribe. Don't try and bleed your existing subscriber base dry. Or you might find that you don't have many people left...

Edited August 19, 2012 by FeelFlow

[Tsillah]

The problem I am facing right now is that I am getting bored with the game. The issue there is lack of content for me. I don't need another ops to follow on after EC, because I haven't even finished EC...in fact I can't be arsed because it's just tedious and not fun to me.

 

I've been playing from the start though and it's not bad at all that it took this long for me to get bored, but then I didn't rush to 50 in the beginning.

 

I am, however, annoyed with the fact that BW are constantly doing the wrong things here. They are looking into charging people with subs. You know, the remaining half of players that are still here. It is contradictory to the statement that subs would cover content updates.

 

So this is how I see it. I don't mind so much that there will be a f2p option. It makes sense in this market today, as much as I don't like that fact. But I also don't like to get the piss taken out of me by a game company and for that reason I have some deal breakers. These are things that when they are made official will make me quit the game instantly. That's right, I said quit the game, not just my sub.

 

So here's my short list that I am willing to let BW know about at this stage:

 

When I play a sub I do not wish to:

 

1) Pay for content updates

2) See any in game advertisement for the cash shop. I will go there myself outside of the game when I feel like it.

3) Be unable to take any cash shop buttons they might put in the UI out of the UI

4) See items in the cash shop that are pay2win

 

Get this BW, if you do any ONE of these, that will be the day I quit playing this game. I will unsub immediately and uninstall the game and take this website out of my favourites. Do not see this as a threat but as an explanation of cause and effect. Do with it as you will, but some things I do not accept as a paying subscriber.

 

I know that WoW charged for big expansions, but you're not nearly big enough to be able to afford that type of decision. Perhaps you think that the profit from the people who will pay for it outweights the loss of players but at this stage, that should look like a really bad idea to you, considering the fact that you have lost more players than you should've.

 

You say 40 % of players left because of the sub model. I tell you that even though they may have said that, I will tell you that a lot of them said that because they felt the game wasn't complete and so they were overpaying. The f2p model has quite a few restrictions in comparison to subs. Even though this is just my opinion, I am pretty sure that a lot of these people wanted the game as it was as f2p without these restrictions. I am not convinced therefore that you will win many of these people back and since the amount of MMO players is a limited quantity, I don't see that many expansion options.

 

I think that an MMO today needs to have a lot more basics covered than before. As much as I've enjoyed SWTOR (it is Star Wars in the end), I fully understand the people who left.

 

These kind of comments from your side that you are looking into charging sub payers for this content is harmful in and of itself. Even if you decide against it, it's already damaging to your fanbase to even say this. If the game was thriving and wasn't so buggy, you might be able to get away with charging for content. Right now, you actually need to own up to your failures and see this content as a way to make up for some of the mistakes you've made.

 

Learn from this BW....SWTOR has some good story work in it, but the game does have a lot of bugs still and you still have a hard time bringing out patches without causing more bugs. Do you really think it's a good idea to start discussing charging your remaining fanbase. There's an expression for this: adding insult to injury.

 

First make a game that has the basics in it

Then make sure it's virtually bug free (no game is completely free of bugs)

Then make sure there is enough content for endgame. And I don't mean more flashpoints and warzones but alternatives for gear progression that allow people to do a variety of activities.

 

And then when all of this is going properly may you discuss charging sub payers for extra content. If you don't get this then you shouldn't make MMOs really. Cause at this stage the game doesn't actually fulfill any of the 3 points I mentioned. So get real. The game's been good enough for me to play so far, but I would never suggest it to any of my friends because I would feel bad about getting them into this game.

 

I got out of it what I could. Just have one more story line I want to finish. Then it's done. Maybe Makeb will add new excitement to the game, but charge me for it and you know now I won't buy it.

 

I am just one player, so that doesn't make much of a difference to you, but perhaps this will give you something to consider. Do you ever ask yourself how come it's so easy for so many people to quit this game? People get detached too easily.

 

TL;DR : Bioware apparently haven't got a clue about their fanbase. They are doing everything they can to upset players even more at a time where they need to show they mean business with regards to the game and the customers....not just the cash shop.

[ChazDoit]

It's my understanding that WoW players will have to pay for their Panda expansion after like 10 months of no updates?

 

"yeah, but WoW has many features that swtor doesn't"

So that justifies you giving them money for almost a year and get no content in return and on top of that having to pay for the new content?

 

Seriously the stuff that Blizzard can get away with and people whine in this forums when Bioware has not even done a fraction of that.

[Brakoz]

I actually wouldn't mind paying extra for some features: dual-spec available to all toons and 16 toons per server.

My problem with BWis when they are talking new content its WZs, FPs, or even a planet. But never improvements to game mechanics. Some of the stuff promised in jan/feb (dual spec, more than 8 char slots) is still not implemented and they have gone suspiciously silent about those. I hope that at least f2p and ability to get some money out of those features will finally make BW to implement those.

[ZORG]

I would drop this game like a bad habit if they charged for content to subscribers. If they want to charge for new content then it should follow the GW2 model. However I do remember playing EQ1 and they charged like 20 bucks for expansions. you got a dvd/cd to install from the store. Each expansion was 6 months or more of content. If they were gonna release content with that much content for SWTOR I would pay for it. They have demonstrated in the past that they are not releasing content on that level.

 

Would you believe I played EQ1 for 5 years and with all the expansions I never made max level? Something for Bioware to consider....

[Darth-Rammstein]

It's my understanding that WoW players will have to pay for their Panda expansion after like 10 months of no updates?

 

"yeah, but WoW has many features that swtor doesn't"

So that justifies you giving them money for almost a year and get no content in return and on top of that having to pay for the new content?

 

Seriously the stuff that Blizzard can get away with and people whine in this forums when Bioware has not even done a fraction of that.

 

You are comparing an entire expansion to a single moderate content update...If you are bent on comparing it to wow then the Makeb update is more likely comparable to the Isle of Quel'Danas patch during BC...that was included in the sub.

[boobaffet]

We have no new content and now you guys are complaining cause they might charge us for it. unbelivable.

 

Its not going to cost 50$ or anything if its just a planet and 5 level.

[Darth-Rammstein]

We have no new content and now you guys are complaining cause they might charge us for it. unbelivable.

 

Its not going to cost 50$ or anything if its just a planet and 5 level.

 

Well, you are exactly the type of player they like. Someone who doesn't question being charged extra for content even though they pay their monthly subscriber fee which is supposed to cover content updates.

[boobaffet]

Well, you are exactly the type of player they like. Someone who doesn't question being charged extra for content even though they pay their monthly subscriber fee which is supposed to cover content updates.

 

if you dont like it dont buy it.

 

id rather spend more money for more content than little money for little content

[Darth-Rammstein]

if you dont like it dont buy it.

 

id rather spend more money for more content than little money for little content

 

There needs to be something more significant than unlimited wz/fp/ops and bag space/character slots to justify 15/month. No it's not much money but what's the point in paying for it if you aren't even getting the content updates included with it?

[aeterno]

I really hope they realise that even tho they have a "hybrid" system their subscribers section will still get compared to other subscriber based games.

 

And subscribers don't pay extra for anything short of a full expansion. If TOR starts charging for what amounts to content patches in other subscription based games their subscription model will get (rightfully) branded as a ripoff and they can expect to alienate a lot of subscribers that stayed loyal so far.

 

 

 

It's also very cynical to claim you're going f2p cos of the "cash barrier in this day and age" and in the same breath be considering to charge even more to subscribers. What, cos we can afford 15$ a month it means we can get fleeced on top of that? I'll already be paying a subscription mainly for the privilege of not having the game as it is atm gutted, but you'll charge me on top of that for any meaningfull new stuff? I don't think any company ever treated their paying customers this badly till now...

Edited August 19, 2012 by aeterno

[Valin]

I really hope they realise that even tho they have a "hybrid" system their subscribers section will still get compared to other subscriber based games.

 

And subscribers don't pay extra for anything short of a full expansion. If TOR starts charging for what amounts to content patches in other subscription based games their subscription model will get (rightfully) branded as a ripoff and they can expect to alienate a lot of subscribers that stayed loyal so far.

 

I agree completely, if subscribers get charged for any content beyond a full expansion pack then whats the point in subscribing at all, may as well play for nothing and then buy the little bits you actually want to do.

 

If they do charge for Makeb and whatever that includes I think there will be yet another backlash from subscribers who have stuck with this so far but don't need to be pushed very far to think of cancelling.

[Sewerus]

I originally expected to have to pay for it, as it sounded like a mini expansion. Then they told us its a free content patch and all content is free to subscribers.

 

Tbh if its like 5-10 pounds (10-15$) I don't mind much but I'd still call it a bit of a shady move.

 

However if its just like 500 cartel coins I wouldn't mind, ill just save all of mine till then to make sure.

 

You already paying the subscription why you do want to pay for a content patch.

 

It is not the expanision, i will not pay 15 euro for a freaking content patch since i already pay for sub.

 

The meaning of subs and if we are talking about free to play model here is that they have everything unlocked because they pay the freaking sub.

 

And the free to play guys need to pay for it since, real money or cartel points, they do not support the game as we do.

 

I can pay for an expansion but one freaking planet isn't a expansion, expsion is for example 10 planets with storylines, 2 or 3 new operation, 6-7 new flashes or more. THAT is a expansion, and not one planet.

I think you do not understand the value of money.

 

So my question to you is that, why is the point of being a subscriber if you do need to pay for every content patch.

[Lazzer]

The way I see it they have left themselves with a limited number of choices:

 

1) Paid expansion; everyone pays but the content has locks and limitations for the FtP players while the subs get full access.

 

2) Free expansion (the base game will be free for both new subs and FtP players) subs get full access FtP have to pay for each piece individually.

 

3) Paid expansion; everyone gets full access but all updates to that expansion have to be bought by the FtP players.

 

In my mind option 1 will not sell to the FtP crowd, option 2 will not sell to subscribers and will lose them subscription, while option 2 is fair. I don't see how they can charge for an expansion when the game will be a free download, subscribers won't put up with it.

[Sewerus]

It's my understanding that WoW players will have to pay for their Panda expansion after like 10 months of no updates?

 

"yeah, but WoW has many features that swtor doesn't"

So that justifies you giving them money for almost a year and get no content in return and on top of that having to pay for the new content?

 

Seriously the stuff that Blizzard can get away with and people whine in this forums when Bioware has not even done a fraction of that.

 

You really do not get the point between pandaria and this new patch.

 

Pandaria is new continent like 5 or 6 zones, dungeons, new race, new animation ( and everythng ), new introduction, new dungeons, new raids.

 

Pandarians ( pandas ) are totally new race with new emotes, new voice, new casting animation. In sw tor every race have the same animation, it all depends on a class. So it really isn't the same.

 

The things that bioware is doing, would be like blizz would offer a patch but said that all subscribers had to pay additional money to use it.

[Sewerus]

The way I see it they have left themselves with a limited number of choices:

 

1) Paid expansion; everyone pays but the content has locks and limitations for the FtP players while the subs get full access.

 

2) Free expansion (the base game will be free for both new subs and FtP players) subs get full access FtP have to pay for each piece individually.

 

3) Paid expansion; everyone gets full access but all updates to that expansion have to be bought by the FtP players.

 

In my mind option 1 will not sell to the FtP crowd, option 2 will not sell to subscribers and will lose them subscription, while option 2 is fair. I don't see how they can charge for an expansion when the game will be a free download, subscribers won't put up with it.

 

You know ddo didn't have huge expansion packs and still is doing fine.

 

As sw tor player, i can understand paying for expansion = huge content patches, the difference between f2p player and subs players is that f2p player need to pay for content, and subs players should get everything free because they pay the sub.

 

As i had played both lotro and ddo, i know when being a subscriber i got all the content free and free access to all new content except expansions. And that is ok for me.

 

If bioware will not change, i think it means i will have to start playing guild wars 2, despite that i bought collectors edition for this game.

[aeterno]

It's my understanding that WoW players will have to pay for their Panda expansion after like 10 months of no updates?

 

"yeah, but WoW has many features that swtor doesn't"

So that justifies you giving them money for almost a year and get no content in return and on top of that having to pay for the new content?

 

Seriously the stuff that Blizzard can get away with and people whine in this forums when Bioware has not even done a fraction of that.

 

Hold up, since cata launched they patched up to 4.3 adding several dungeons and raids, a daily area, an event area, reworked heroic instances and introduced a bunch of features.

 

If they monetized all that like TOR is thinking of doing they'd charge their subscribers another expansions worth of money. I don't think their subscribers would put up with that, and I don't think they'll put up with it here.

Edited August 19, 2012 by aeterno

[boobaffet]

Hold up, since cata launched they patched up to 4.3 adding several dungeons and raids, a daily area, an event area, reworked heroic instances and introduced a bunch of features.

 

If they monetized all that like TOR is thinking of doing they'd charge their subscribers another expansions worth of money. I don't think their subscribers would put up with that, and I don't think they'll put up with it here.

 

you mean just like what swtor did in the same lapse of time with less money coming from subs?

[aeterno]

you mean just like what swtor did in the same lapse of time with less money coming from subs?

 

So you think subscribers will put with being nickel and dimmed in the future cos they've been treated so well in the past?

 

That's rather optimistic imo.

[Lazzer]

You know ddo didn't have huge expansion packs and still is doing fine.

 

As sw tor player, i can understand paying for expansion = huge content patches, the difference between f2p player and subs players is that f2p player need to pay for content, and subs players should get everything free because they pay the sub.

 

As i had played both lotro and ddo, i know when being a subscriber i got all the content free and free access to all new content except expansions. And that is ok for me.

 

If bioware will not change, i think it means i will have to start playing guild wars 2, despite that i bought collectors edition for this game.

 

I agree with you, I personally quit DDO when it went FtP and I quit LoTRO after they introduced skirmishes (it went form a good MMO with everyone travelling the open world to get to instances and raids to people sitting around and teleporting into instances (it was still sub based on the Euro servers when I left).

 

I do particularly mind paying for an expansion, as a subscriber I've done that for years in EQ, but my sub had better give me far more content in that expansion than a FtP player.

[boobaffet]

So you think subscribers will put with being nickel and dimmed in the future cos they've been treated so well in the past?

 

That's rather optimistic imo.

 

Im just not seeing how this is different from wow.

 

And if the expansion is a small expansion it wont cost as much as a big wow expansion. I dont get the difference beetween paying less money for smaller and more frequent expansion then more money for bigger expansion that comes every couple year.

[liammozz]

Im just not seeing how this is different from wow.

 

And if the expansion is a small expansion it wont cost as much as a big wow expansion. I dont get the difference beetween paying less money for smaller and more frequent expansion then more money for bigger expansion that comes every couple year.

 

you dont pay for the smaller ones the only thing you have paid extra for in wow is

 

the burning crusade

wrath of the lich king

cataclysm

mists of pandara

 

everything else they have realised is part of the sub