Moatcarp Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 How in the living hell can you call playing the drop lottery grind as being disciplined? Again, that's NOT what I said. LEARN TO COMPREHEND ENGRISH. Ironically, the Asians use English better than the Americans in MMOs... They tend to be able to spell words like "you" and "are"... Americans keep misspelling such simple words.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I don't see Shadowbane as a flop at all. it was a game for a certain type of player, that lasted for over 6+ years. Pure PvP. that is all the game was based on, and I have seen no game since that had PvP machanics to match. No game since has held my attention for PvP. everyone else has gone to the CC breaks, (which are utterly worthless, with 2 min CD's) instead of putting Immunity for a certain amount of time after you were stunned. A lot of people don't like going around automatically flagged for PvP, which was what that game was, no PvE servers. If any game would go back and use the same Stun/immunity machanics as shadowbane, i'd be far more interested in doing PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatcarp Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 I don't see Shadowbane as a flop at all. it was a game for a certain type of player, that lasted for over 6+ years. Pure PvP. that is all the game was based on, and I have seen no game since that had PvP machanics to match. No game since has held my attention for PvP. everyone else has gone to the CC breaks, (which are utterly worthless, with 2 min CD's) instead of putting Immunity for a certain amount of time after you were stunned. A lot of people don't like going around automatically flagged for PvP, which was what that game was, no PvE servers. If any game would go back and use the same Stun/immunity machanics as shadowbane, i'd be far more interested in doing PvP. Except operating shadowbane for 6 years bankrupted both Wolfpack Studios, and then Stray Bullet Games, which bought the IP from the bankrupt wolfpack studios... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ironically, the Asians use English better than the Americans in MMOs... They tend to be able to spell words like "you" and "are"... Americans keep misspelling such simple words.... Ah, I see. You just want to hate the United States of America. That's fine. That still doesn't explain your lack of comprehension. Look up the word immersive at http://www.dictionary.com Hope that helps, and I doubt you'll find that word associated with the word "easy", or "undisciplined". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimar Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The Secret World did not flop, it just got released bozo the clown. I'm guessing you haven't seen Funcom's investor report then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aricus Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Which is about 250k more than most MMOs that try to deviate from WoW.... Oh like EvE which has 450k subs right? Right? Yeah right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Final fantasy 11 was a hit and was nothing like WOW. And for all the people that say SWTOR is the fastest flopping MMO. Think final fantasy14 version 1 holds that title. Agame so bad the lead producer was replaced within the first couple of months. And they are completely remaking the game and the engine while.people play Now that is a game that square will not allow to fail purely because of its name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatcarp Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Oh like EvE which has 450k subs right? Right? Yeah right... Most, not all. Another exception would be Final Fantasy XI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Lets look at the pure numbers and sales... it is clear that MMO gamers want World of Warcraft template (which by the way copied Dark age of Camelot, which copied EverQuest) games. The best selling MMOs today all use the World of Warcraft template.... Whether it be SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Lineage, EverQuest II, they all follow the world of warcraft model. Now, lets look at the mmos that did not follow the WoW model. They all flopped at the retail market and nobody bought them. The matrix online, shadowbane, world war ii online, TERA, Tabula Rasa, All Points Bulletin, Star Wars Galaxies, and most recently, The Secret World. The MMO graveyard is filled with MMOs that deviate from the norm. So when gamers cry "we want something other than WoW". you know they are lying. They talk a big game but when it comes time to buy said product, they never do. They all want WoW. SWG lasted 8 years before being closed down. I wouldn't call it a flop. The Secret World has only been out a month or so. Let's be clear on what a flop is. A flop is a game like The Matrix Online which NEVER has the numbers to be profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimar Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 . And for all the people that say SWTOR is the fastest flopping MMO. Think final fantasy14 version 1 holds that title. The Secret World must be a contender for this title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orionmajor Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 there is room for non wow games, but sadly, the studios, and the community, tends to be so conditioned to WoW it takes a Quantum leap. DCUO had the best combat system in MMos, period, but as someone else said, the people used to ruling their PVP whined. You have a Blizzard cult out there that wants to make sure everything is compared to Blizzard, because they are only comfortable with Blizzard. That is why the fanboys take pover forums and start telling the loudest, to shut down debate and free thought. In other words, Blizzard is the Tea Party of gaming. Also, the fact is, WoW whores itself to the Gold farmers, which for better or worse are a part of Asian gamer culture. Whoever said North Americans cannot grind like Asians have not met some of the people I know, who frankly might as well get their mail in cyberspace rather than in RL. However, the idea of buying a lot of your gear is something Asian MMos embrace more, which is why City of Heroes, that other game by NCsoft, the one that is still around after several years, did better once the Koreans took over and taught them how to make a decent market. The problem is that BW did not communicate well, nor did they fix things fast enough. They could have easily done what WoW did, rip off the best features from games and call it theirs, but their vision got in the way. There is always a point where the developer needs to realize that the players control the vision, and if a studio was to prepare for that, they could make it. The real sign of how the MMO industry is will be when Blizzard releases what they call Titan, which so far is rumored to be an MMO based in the Starcraft world. Blizzard knows that they need another MMO for people to grow into when they get tired of WoW, especially since machines are getting faster. Some tablets have better stats than old gamer machines. If Titan flops, we know that Blizzard is terminally ill, because investors do not care about how many subscribers you have today, they want you to explain to them why they should not do a Mitt Romney, load you with debt, chop you into parts, and sell you off. Wall Street is an MMO that pretends to be about good business, but it is really a glorified PVP where cheating is rewarded. Whoever makes the next good MMO will need to keep wall Street at bay, which is why I will look more towards smaller studious than big ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 there is room for non wow games, but sadly, the studios, and the community, tends to be so conditioned to WoW it takes a Quantum leap. DCUO had the best combat system in MMos, period, but as someone else said, the people used to ruling their PVP whined. You have a Blizzard cult out there that wants to make sure everything is compared to Blizzard, because they are only comfortable with Blizzard. That is why the fanboys take pover forums and start telling the loudest, to shut down debate and free thought. In other words, Blizzard is the Tea Party of gaming. Also, the fact is, WoW whores itself to the Gold farmers, which for better or worse are a part of Asian gamer culture. Whoever said North Americans cannot grind like Asians have not met some of the people I know, who frankly might as well get their mail in cyberspace rather than in RL. However, the idea of buying a lot of your gear is something Asian MMos embrace more, which is why City of Heroes, that other game by NCsoft, the one that is still around after several years, did better once the Koreans took over and taught them how to make a decent market. The problem is that BW did not communicate well, nor did they fix things fast enough. They could have easily done what WoW did, rip off the best features from games and call it theirs, but their vision got in the way. There is always a point where the developer needs to realize that the players control the vision, and if a studio was to prepare for that, they could make it. The real sign of how the MMO industry is will be when Blizzard releases what they call Titan, which so far is rumored to be an MMO based in the Starcraft world. Blizzard knows that they need another MMO for people to grow into when they get tired of WoW, especially since machines are getting faster. Some tablets have better stats than old gamer machines. If Titan flops, we know that Blizzard is terminally ill, because investors do not care about how many subscribers you have today, they want you to explain to them why they should not do a Mitt Romney, load you with debt, chop you into parts, and sell you off. Wall Street is an MMO that pretends to be about good business, but it is really a glorified PVP where cheating is rewarded. Whoever makes the next good MMO will need to keep wall Street at bay, which is why I will look more towards smaller studious than big ones. i said it a few posts up i think a will degined skyrim/oblivion type mmo would not just kill wow but dance on its grave questing was always fun in the elder scrolls (apart from when they bug'ed) its a huge open ended world there would be no split community due to 2 different factions you just chose a race and go play and the PvP dont get me started on the PvP no more gear means win its all out hack slash skill with magic and bows to boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatcarp Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 i said it a few posts up i think a will degined skyrim/oblivion type mmo would not just kill wow but dance on its grave questing was always fun in the elder scrolls (apart from when they bug'ed) its a huge open ended world there would be no split community due to 2 different factions you just chose a race and go play and the PvP dont get me started on the PvP no more gear means win its all out hack slash skill with magic and bows to boot Open world MMOs are almost never successful.... let alone come close to challenging WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Open world MMOs are almost never successful.... let alone come close to challenging WoW. did you like skyrim? would you of liked to have it at least 2player so your mate could tag along have you played dead island? now have you played it with four other people that game is bad *** this is a untapped gold mine that no one has touched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatcarp Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 did you like skyrim? would you of liked to have it at least 2player so your mate could tag along have you played dead island? now have you played it with four other people that game is bad *** this is a untapped gold mine that no one has touched The answer to your first question was no.... If you think people complain alot about "lack of content" in a theme park MMO, How bad do you think they will complain in an open world sandbox mmo where you are supposed to go make your own fun? (IE, like Ultima Online....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The answer to your first question was no.... If you think people complain alot about "lack of content" in a theme park MMO, How bad do you think they will complain in an open world sandbox mmo where you are supposed to go make your own fun? (IE, like Ultima Online....) What has always confused me is why people think they can't make their own content in a theme park game. It's not like you're ONLY allowed to participate in the rides created by the developers. Then again, that's what makes the RP servers so amazing to play on. We make our own events, our own fun, our own world PvP instead of sitting around and complaining about there not being any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The answer to your first question was no.... If you think people complain alot about "lack of content" in a theme park MMO, How bad do you think they will complain in an open world sandbox mmo where you are supposed to go make your own fun? (IE, like Ultima Online....) see i can fix that you just put in mini theme parks and dungeons and raids but most of all you keep the content flowing events like dragons attacking citys thalmar advances yearly calendar events and so forth give them something to do and they will play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 did you like skyrim? I still can't get past the first village, I think it is that boring. Obsidian is probably to blame, I can't get that amount of suck out of my mind to give it a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I still can't get past the first village, I think it is that boring. Obsidian is probably to blame, I can't get that amount of suck out of my mind to give it a chance. try dead island i swear i have lost count of the amount of times my keborad and mouse has flew across the room and there was a brown mess in my pants, they literly come out of no where. the weapons you can make are good as well, and you can play with up to three other's on line or over LAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 You bean counters are so lacking in vision its not even funny. There was a whole heck of allot of things that happened that helped wow go be successful. Very little of it had to with the type of game. So for the noobs that think ti does ill try to explain. World of warcraft was a dream come true for a large warcraft fan base. Point two world warcrafts design made sense for that universe. Point three the whole swg mess happened just about the time wow needed to grow, so that helped out there numbers. Point four at the time wow did not have nearly as many contenders for large mmos like there is today. Take all these events away wow would have struggled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Actually, the numbers tell that a bad game will always be a bad game. There is some truth in what you say, but in a different way : "The players that want to play WOW.. are doing it already". What is needed is actually a new game . And SWTOR proved that one new game can still make it, as long as it is actually good enough. It failed in everything it claimed it`ll do, but it DID sell 2.4m copies and DID have 1.7 mil subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmillia Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 You bean counters are so lacking in vision its not even funny. There was a whole heck of allot of things that happened that helped wow go be successful. Very little of it had to with the type of game. So for the noobs that think ti does ill try to explain. World of warcraft was a dream come true for a large warcraft fan base. Point two world warcrafts design made sense for that universe. Point three the whole swg mess happened just about the time wow needed to grow, so that helped out there numbers. Point four at the time wow did not have nearly as many contenders for large mmos like there is today. Take all these events away wow would have struggled. This. WoW's biggest selling point has always been it's IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 If you would have said this three years ago I would agree, but lets look at the other facts, last quater wow lost 1.1 million subs in fact they have lost subs every quarter of last year expcept 1, they have had lay offs and thier stock has gone way down and Blizzard/Activision is for sale also.. Yes it was a huge game and still is, but the shine is wearing off for allot of people it seems. The whole mmo genre has grown stale because to many games copy wow and there is no diverse game play, just copy an past from game to game, every game tries to put thier own spin on the game like TOR with the Story Telling. MMo's today lack the feel of your toon living in the world, just feels like playing through it, untill some company comes up with a good Theme park\ sandbox hybrid, we are going to see new games that copy wow fall by the way side far to often.. Times and players have changed since wow launched, and the wow model is not cutting for allot of veteran mmo players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 This. WoW's biggest selling point has always been it's IP. I think the fact it was damn fun to play is it's biggest selling point. Unfortunately people become jaded over time but it's still the MMO people fall back too. The trouble for MMO's that deviate from the WoW template now is many of todays MMO players grew up with WoW, therefore they expect/want a game that is familiar despite what they might say to the contrary. Those of us from earlier MMO's still remember when there was a different way. Unfortunately for us, and maybe some might say for the newer generation, not many companies will want to take risks particularly in the current financial climate. I think our best hope is for smaller, independent studios to innovate and give the genre the much needed kick up the *** it needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) So when gamers cry "we want something other than WoW". you know they are lying. They talk a big game but when it comes time to buy said product, they never do. They all want WoW. Pretty much true actually, and is indicative of the craziness that is the MMO community. Any given MMO player is sane and rational for the most part, but the collective community as a whole is freaking scooters. However, the subscription side of WoW (not Asia pay to play, but Western subscriptions) have really bled out over the last year. They are down 2M subs in a sub base of ~5M. That's 40% attrition in one year for the god of all gods in the MMO market. So there is a force shift in the market, mostly influenced by single player games and mobile gaming. People want actual MMOs less and less each year. Which is why Freemium is taking strong hold in MMOs (including Blizzards upcoming MMOs, which will not be sub based). It is a business model that can go toe to toe with mobile gaming and single player user economics viewpoints. Edited August 17, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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