Let's be blunt, since this was the very first game to openly step up to Blizzard, both Blizz and their fanboy manchildren made sure to attack this game from the first second. Note how many forum posts are done by annoying Blizza fans, going "haha, dis game will nevur b as gud as WoW." As I have said elsewhere, I would love to think Blizzard paid these fools, but no, they are in their mother's basement, waiting to pay another 40 bucks plus the 15 a month plus whatever they pay their Chinese gold farmers to play a Kung Fu Panda. Mcdonalds may make the MOST burgers, it does not mean they are the best, nor does it mean the company is healthy. If you think investors do not see that WoW lost a million people, and that they were saved by Diablo III, I got some swamp to sell you. Yeah, they are big, but investors only care about short term here and now profit. And if Panderia goes down in flames, like I am hoping it does, than Blizzard will reap what it has sown. Let's not even get into the fact that they still cannot let any info out on project titan. Did BW screw some things up, yes..heck, they shopuld have simply did what blizzard did, stoeln features from other mmos,put a coat of paint on, and added it. They also could have learned how to build a COMMUNITY. However, does it deserve the sheer hate it gets, no...especially when us Coh veterans remember Jack Emmert. I think this game can last, but frankly, EA has to stop listening to people that say it needs to be the next wow to be a cash cow. Frankly, WoW's model is DYING, and to be honest, good riddance. They also should realzie that this game is the next step in gaming, where you have actual stories...EA needs to get out of bw's way.

I know many people in this forum want a change to pvp. I ask this, is there any way to do a world PvP without griefers,or a way to lessen it? For example, DCUO did a large mega server that was PVP, and one PVE, where you could switch, that was a good thing I think BW might consider, However, even there, you had level 50's camp in the newbie areas to make sure new players could nto adavnce, which of course, is bad for business, as people quit the game. Is it possible perhaps for PvP players to police themselves, to cut off griefers from the better guilds?

why they stay.. Becuase some of them are just egotistical twerps who come on here not to have fun, but to be the creeps they would be if they had superwpoers and could not die. Also, I suspect Blizzard whips these fools up, because Blizzard wants to be the only thing left standing. After all, then they kbnow they can shovel out panda bears and make people pay 40 dollars for the privlege.

there is room for non wow games, but sadly, the studios, and the community, tends to be so conditioned to WoW it takes a Quantum leap. DCUO had the best combat system in MMos, period, but as someone else said, the people used to ruling their PVP whined. You have a Blizzard cult out there that wants to make sure everything is compared to Blizzard, because they are only comfortable with Blizzard. That is why the fanboys take pover forums and start telling the loudest, to shut down debate and free thought. In other words, Blizzard is the Tea Party of gaming. Also, the fact is, WoW whores itself to the Gold farmers, which for better or worse are a part of Asian gamer culture. Whoever said North Americans cannot grind like Asians have not met some of the people I know, who frankly might as well get their mail in cyberspace rather than in RL. However, the idea of buying a lot of your gear is something Asian MMos embrace more, which is why City of Heroes, that other game by NCsoft, the one that is still around after several years, did better once the Koreans took over and taught them how to make a decent market. The problem is that BW did not communicate well, nor did they fix things fast enough. They could have easily done what WoW did, rip off the best features from games and call it theirs, but their vision got in the way. There is always a point where the developer needs to realize that the players control the vision, and if a studio was to prepare for that, they could make it. The real sign of how the MMO industry is will be when Blizzard releases what they call Titan, which so far is rumored to be an MMO based in the Starcraft world. Blizzard knows that they need another MMO for people to grow into when they get tired of WoW, especially since machines are getting faster. Some tablets have better stats than old gamer machines. If Titan flops, we know that Blizzard is terminally ill, because investors do not care about how many subscribers you have today, they want you to explain to them why they should not do a Mitt Romney, load you with debt, chop you into parts, and sell you off. Wall Street is an MMO that pretends to be about good business, but it is really a glorified PVP where cheating is rewarded. Whoever makes the next good MMO will need to keep wall Street at bay, which is why I will look more towards smaller studious than big ones.

somewhat Except there is a problem: outside of City of heroes having Mission architect, it sounds like every MMO is a theme park...can you give an example of one that is not? I know WoW sure is.

I have heard the term "theme park" design for MMos...what does that actually mean?

As I said before, sometimes F2p does work well. DCUO thrived because of it. Revenue there went up more than 500 percent (literally) but more importantly, Metropolis was full of people. City Of Heroes also did well. The problem comes in when EA wastes so much money that 500,000 subscribers in the first year is considered a failure. Where it is so greedy it fires half the staff after the box starts to ship, despite the fact that has been shown to be a disaster. And no, I will not excuse BW, but honestly, if people critiqued WoW with half the vigor they do anything not WoW, Blizzard would be in flames, but people let the fanboys loose on the forums. These are the same guys who will have to confess that they are playing a bad version of Kung Fu Panda. And WoW will make money because they will be under NO PRESSURE to make a better product, no new engine, no new graphics, nada. I wanted this game to be what it should have been. It still is better than WoW, but EA screwed the pooch royally. I really fear that this game will be the last of it's kind, the last attempt to make a truly epic game. If you guys want WoW to be the standard of gaming, go right on ahead and whine on the forums. However, in the next game, I will look to see if the company eschews facebook and twitter. Those two media sources are very easy to manipulate, especially by fanboys and corporate stooges. Build your community from within, and make it so that the voices that get listened to are NOT the casual types. In the meantime, I won't be seeing anyone on Guild Wars, if i wanted that, I would be on NCsoft's superior game, City of Heroes.

Old Today , 11:19 PM | #1 Report Post I have played on City of heroes, DCUO and WoW. Now, I do notice that f2p was NOT the end of the world for CoH nor DCUO, indeed, new content came smoother, quicker. It also was a lot easier that find people to do missions with. This was good news... However, there were also bits where Richer people bought toys, play to win. Now, I have no problem with people paying to get something they want online, but some of those people made me want to strangle them, as some of them were the people that bought everything but a Clue how to play. However, with a larger playerbase, it was easier to ignore them. In the short run, Freemium, F2P, will not be the death of this MMO. The other games I mentioned are going strong. However, this is bigger than just an MMO. I am going to say something that might be a bit outrageous, but, "search your feelings, you know it to be true." Electronic Arts, and to some extent, Bioware, has just crippled the idea of great games. It will be a long time, if ever, anyone tries to make an MMO that has a serious amount of craftsmanship or content. MMOs have been relegated to glorified nintendo. Ok, why do I say that? Bioware, for all the mistakes they did, was the one developer that tried to take on Blizzard, to offer something different, more Epic, more about storyline. Other MMOs had a famous franchise, yet totally delivered something that was NOT up to the theme. Star Trek Online, I aimed that one at you in particular. Matrix Online, what needs to be said? Bioware tried to be cinematic, having DIALOGUE, voice acting, moral choices, actual storytelling. A common criticism of MMOs was that they were developed too quick without fan input, this has developed over two years, with plenty of fan input and beta testing. They spent more money in the development than many movies, why not, some games make more than the movies. Well, they could have used more help from the NcSofts, or the Sonys, as the actual MMOs aspect got off to a rocky start with the server flap. Still, they did resolve it. But then the "This game will never be WoW" folks came on, doing their TROLLING and BULLYING. I would love to think Blizzard was paying these folks, not like MMO companies have not done that (Champions Online, ye who tried to bribe guild leaders to recruit, even though it was against your own ToS, that was aimed at you.) However, the sad truth is, WoW produced a culture that considered serious gaming a THREAT. Out came the man-children that only did half as well because they spent their rent money on gold farmers. Sadly, Bioware did not communicate as well, using twitter, where they could have simply used the forums, and built the community that makes a subscription game work. Also, and I believe this was EA's demand, they did layoffs once the game was launched, not realizing that they needed that small army to maintain the game. However, I will also say that for all the mistakes made, they were trivial compared the standard in the industry, whether it is WoW, or SoE that let themselves get hacked. Yet, people got in the internet, and let the vitriol fly, not constructive critiques, but pure armchair warrior internet anonymous venom! All the effort they piut in development to make sure that they listened to the fans went out the window, as SOME of the fans here acted as whiny as the dweebs who play WoW. You talked about wanting to be served steak, and you yelled because you wanted a burger and fries! What does that mean, it means that any company that tries to develop a franchise will run, as people will not dare risk offending the fanboys, nor sink money in, only to be yelled at louder! Hell, why even DO franchises when you wind up paying some estate, not like fans support them. It means that any attempts to do detailed graphics, voice acting, or storylines will be rejected. Why do storylines when all people want to do is PVP? It means that games will be directed at pre-teens. Now, some 15 years old kids I know play better and more maturely than some 45 years olds, however, the majority, they are not. Expect the ratings to go to rated G. It means that development will be gimped, because development does not pay off. Why spend all that money listening to fans on forums when they will only use that against you? In short, as much as EA and BW are to blame, so are many of the players. If Gaming goes back to crap, it will be because the players demanded crap. I plan to stay here, even though I will be watching what happens. If people destroy this game, I might go back to CoH or DCU, though, I would miss the fact that my characters here have a story and soul, and that this game encouraged that. I also would be reluctant to leave here for whatever the next great MMO is, because I know that the same rogues gallery, the "this should be like WoW" types, the "No one listens to ME" types, and the "I want easy power" types, will attach itself to the new game like fleas to a dog. Maybe console gaming will save MMos, in fact, I recommend to BW or anyone that they should start developing the next MMOS for consoles, as sad to say, the PC gamers USED to be more mature, but they may gave gotten a bit senile. Orion Major, aka Zetero, Ebon Hawk. Cipher Nine, signing off.

I have played on City of heroes, DCUO and WoW. Now, I do notice that f2p was NOT the end of the world for CoH nor DCUO, indeed, new content came smoother, quicker. It also was a lot easier that find people to do missions with. This was good news... However, there were also bits where Richer people bought toys, play to win. Now, I have no problem with people paying to get something they want online, but some of those people made me want to strangle them, as some of them were the people that bought everything but a Clue how to play. However, with a larger playerbase, it was easier to ignore them. In the short run, Freemium, F2P, will not be the death of this MMO. The other games I mentioned are going strong. However, this is bigger than just an MMO. I am going to say something that might be a bit outrageous, but, "search your feelings, you know it to be true." Electronic Arts, and to some extent, Bioware, has just crippled the idea of great games. It will be a long time, if ever, anyone tries to make an MMO that has a serious amount of craftsmanship or content. MMOs have been relegated to glorified nintendo. Ok, why do I say that? Bioware, for all the mistakes they did, was the one developer that tried to take on Blizzard, to offer something different, more Epic, more about storyline. Other MMOs had a famous franchise, yet totally delivered something that was NOT up to the theme. Star Trek Online, I aimed that one at you in particular. Matrix Online, what needs to be said? Bioware tried to be cinematic, having DIALOGUE, voice acting, moral choices, actual storytelling. A common criticism of MMOs was that they were developed too quick without fan input, this has developed over two years, with plenty of fan input and beta testing. They spent more money in the development than many movies, why not, some games make more than the movies. Well, they could have used more help from the NcSofts, or the Sonys, as the actual MMOs aspect got off to a rocky start with the server flap. Still, they did resolve it. But then the "This game will never be WoW" folks came on, doing their TROLLING and BULLYING. I would love to think Blizzard was paying these folks, not like MMO companies have not done that (Champions Online, ye who tried to bribe guild leaders to recruit, even though it was against your own ToS, that was aimed at you.) However, the sad truth is, WoW produced a culture that considered serious gaming a THREAT. Out came the man-children that only did half as well because they spent their rent money on gold farmers. Sadly, Bioware did not communicate as well, using twitter, where they could have simply used the forums, and built the community that makes a subscription game work. Also, and I believe this was EA's demand, they did layoffs once the game was launched, not realizing that they needed that small army to maintain the game. However, I will also say that for all the mistakes made, they were trivial compared the standard in the industry, whether it is WoW, or SoE that let themselves get hacked. Yet, people got in the internet, and let the vitriol fly, not constructive critiques, but pure armchair warrior internet anonymous venom! All the effort they piut in development to make sure that they listened to the fans went out the window, as SOME of the fans here acted as whiny as the dweebs who play WoW. You talked about wanting to be served steak, and you yelled because you wanted a burger and fries! What does that mean, it means that any company that tries to develop a franchise will run, as people will not dare risk offending the fanboys, nor sink money in, only to be yelled at louder! Hell, why even DO franchises when you wind up paying some estate, not like fans support them. It means that any attempts to do detailed graphics, voice acting, or storylines will be rejected. Why do storylines when all people want to do is PVP? It means that games will be directed at pre-teens. Now, some 15 years old kids I know play better and more maturely than some 45 years olds, however, the majority, they are not. Expect the ratings to go to rated G. It means that development will be gimped, because development does not pay off. Why spend all that money listening to fans on forums when they will only use that against you? In short, as much as EA and BW are to blame, so are many of the players. If Gaming goes back to crap, it will be because the players demanded crap. I plan to stay here, even though I will be watching what happens. If people destroy this game, I might go back to CoH or DCU, though, I would miss the fact that my characters here have a story and soul, and that this game encouraged that. I also would be reluctant to leave here for whatever the next great MMO is, because I know that the same rogues gallery, the "this should be like WoW" types, the "No one listens to ME" types, and the "I want easy power" types, will attach itself to the new game like fleas to a dog. Maybe console gaming will save MMos, in fact, I recommend to BW or anyone that they should start developing the next MMOS for consoles, as sad to say, the PC gamers USED to be more mature, but they may gave gotten a bit senile. Orion Major, aka Zetero, Ebon Hawk. Cipher Nine, signing off.

First off, to all those who say K sucks as a tank, buy a decent shield, and get mods with Shield or defense rating, she works fine. Second, to all those that prefer Ensign Temple, are you serious? The girl starts off as being a polyanna, then (no spolier) turns out to be CREEPY. Honestly, considering where you are at that point in the storyline, where almost every ideal you had has been twisted and spat upon, do you really want to romance "I am so much the cute imperial girl that hates anything remotely shady." Yes, some partners are a bit more flexible, as Dr Lokin is not only a great healer, he is also flexible enough to help you get the job done, swimming comfortably in all those shades of grey. His storyline is also interesting . I also like Vector, as he can be a fell fighter when needed, and make for interesting storylines as well. I will not deny that temple can do a lot of damage, but she is also not very durable. So yes, I am glad to see I get Kaliyo back, though I do hope she does not hate me when I get her.

Bar none, the Imperial Agent storyline is one of the best written story lines in gaming. Yes, I said in gaming, period. It never gets into a pattern where you think you understand everything, because there is always some plausible, well written twist that will hit you between the eyes, despite the fact that you KNEW you should have seen it coming. We are NOT talking M. Night Shamalayan plot twists that are summoned from BS, but ones that go "why, why did I not realize that?" It also allows a lot of flexibility, as you are one of the few people that can get away with being as dark as any Sith, and as light as any Jedi. You will not just make choices because "well, that's what i am supposed to do, right?" Add to this that the voice acting is some of the best in the game, from your companions to the NPCS to your character. You can tell BW used the BBC to hire half the cast; the only annoying factor is that, at times, you feel like you are in a Dr. Who episode as much as a SW one. Lastly, I leave you with this, read up on the others. You will see of all the story lines on here, the one that has the most praise is the IA.

I might be wrong, but I tend to find Ensign Temple useless. She dies too quickly to be of much use in combat, and her personality alternates between polly purebred pure and annoying. I cannot help but think I am overlooking something, especially as my character is Chiss, therefore, she should be ideal, but if she has a boring personality, and is useless in combat, what good is she? I must be missing something.

I played on Rubat Crystal, namely because my friends were there, but I noticed that Rubat did not feel like an MMO. Even the main stations had 20 people in them. Needless to say, it was depressing, especially when compared to Jedi Covenant. However, we got moved to Ebon Hawk, a very old rp server. I was curious about whether or not to go back to City of Heroes. Well, I am happy to say that the place is now JUMPING. I have never seen a server whose population read "Very heavy" and looked it. Furthermore, the natives were quite polite and welcoming, snatching many of us into guilds (though not my poor Imp Zetero, though I am sure he will find one.) Was the server transfer a Panacea?, no, there are things this MMo can do to make things smoother, like perhaps use server-less mechanics for flashpoints, harvesting people into groups (ala Champions Online), But did it IMPROVE the MMO feel in a dramatic, clear manner, OH YES! Did it improve the gaming experience, OH YES!. I give BW Kudos. You pulled a rabbit out of your hat, and I look forward to this game for a while.

On CoH, there is an option a person has to auto complete a mission. It is only available for a certain amount per time period, but it allows people to bypass bugged missions. I say this because, ok, I understand Bio ware has a lot on it's plate, especially since you made the same mistake every MMO company did and fired people after launch. But there are some missions that do not get fixed, "hero of the people" being a prime example...If people had the option to know they could just take the escape hatch to move on, than trying to continue would be a choice, not a prison.

OK, I have submitted tickets to Bioware, but after reading threads, it is apparent this mission is bugged. However, I have an idea. If other people are stuck in this position, perhaps we can team up. Granted, the two of us could wind up frustrated, but it may very well be what works. Long story short, there is a mission that does not let you attack Darth Jadus. It kills your stealth, messes you ability to heal, and has been a bug since day one. I am sure I am not the only Imp agent on Rubat Crytsal stuck in this mess...If you are also in this mess, feel free to contact Zetero@rubat Crystal, and perhaps we can power out of it, and get back to playing the IMPS! I never thought I would see moving on to the taris missions as a bloody step up!