Can any MMO really succeed today?

[Brool]

With todays generation of gamers I doubt any mmo will succeed anymore.

[Lunablade]

Yes, a subscription based MMO can and will succeed today, but it needs certain things to succeed. It needs a decent team working on it. It needs to have updates, scheduled updates, regular updates once a month, never more than 3 months apart. It needs a dev team that will talk to, and listen to it's playerbase they need to be vigilant about bugs and game balance.

 

But, and people will argue with me about this... I think most new MMO's that have been released lately are scams. They're hyped to hell, commercials, ads everything to get as MANY box sales as they can possibly get, a large sub base... but then... Support falls through. Updates slow then cease. Bugs are left in the game for months at a time, playerbase crying for game balance updates go unheard, they let the game slowly die so they can clean up by converting it to free to play and make even more money than they would stand to make if it was a pure subscription model.

I really hope that this isn't going to be a common thing from now on in all future MMO's but I have watched several MMOs do the exact same thing lately. It's horrible.

 

 

Best response on this thread so far, I entirely agree with this.

[Scritchy]

With todays generation of gamers I doubt any mmo will succeed anymore.

That is the myopic view of somebody who thinks this game is flawless and can't figure out why it is bleeding subs like a sucking chest wound.

[Goretzu]

you seem to be under the delusion that other MMOs out there aren't making a profit.

 

Now if you are thinking a game needs 11 million subscribers you are wrong.

 

DDO, LotrO, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Aion, and many others are still around making a profit so yes many mmos can succeed.

 

Having a premium IP puts a dent in your profits though. Games like EQ, DAoC, UO, Rift, Aion own their own IP, and other have much less costly IPs.

[Tsillah]

That is the myopic view of somebody who thinks this game is flawless and can't figure out why it is bleeding subs like a sucking chest wound.

 

And this is an assumption of someone who thinks he can make full psychological profile off a forum post.

 

This game is far from flawless and specifically customisation and end game are big issues here, but the truth is that we have more MMOs than ever before on the market on the one hand and a lot of people who don't understand that f2p is actually more expensive than a sub on the other hand.

 

Even though he may have made a generalisation, it cannot be denied that there is a benefit to have f2p options in any MMO because it allows the needed flexibility for gamers to try out games and see if they want to invest in it. But even on these forums, the people who complain about subs and how expensive they are, simply don't get the math behind it and if you want to have the full experience of the game (travel, inventory, storage for example), it will cost you more to play f2p. So you tell me why this generation of gamers is not part of the problem when we see more and more complaints from people who spit on subs and gladly spend 20 bucks or more a month in the cash shop for much the same stuff?

 

From my point of view, let them pay more if they want to, but we've had the baby boomer generation, I guess I am from generation X and now the new generation has been dubbed generation Y ...as in Why do I have to do an effort, Why do I have to pay for this? It's good to question things, but there's a difference between the Why? of an entitled child and a genuine question of someone who wants an answer.

 

I suggest that this has nothing to do with SWTOR or any MMO for that matter, except in the apparent situation that they see it as a change in the market and wish to cater to them. I believe that for BW this is the way to go, because actually fixing the game on short term is not within their capacities.

[Icestar]

I think all mmos eventually die to the point you cannot play the game you purchased, and the money you put into the game is wasted.

 

That is how many players think, they dont give up the game because of the time "invested" would go to waste.

 

It is better to think that the game had entertainment value at the time and move on

[Goretzu]

That is how many players think, they dont give up the game because of the time "invested" would go to waste.

 

It is better to think that the game had entertainment value at the time and move on

 

 

To be honest without the "hook" MMORPG wouldn't survive, they just can't provide entertainment that the sort of speed needed.

 

The hook in most MMORPG being the time invesment needed to progress.

[CosmicKat]

MMO's are already dead.

 

They died when WoW was released.

 

We are just witnessing the decent into irrelevance. Unless developers wake up and start putting the Multiplayer back into MMO's, they will be completely gone in a few short years. It's baffling to me why they are killing themselves by destroying the key element of what made an MMO an MMO.

[lovefool]

You define success by comparing yourself to the market. Right now there's only one huge market and that's WoW. Sure there are other MMOs but no other MMO has even 1 million subscribers but yet WoW has 10 million and held it for quite sometime.

 

You have a weird definition of a market. A market is not one company that is doing best. A market is all companies within that commodity so if you want to compare a game within "a market" then you need to compare it not only to WoW but to all games within that market, such as Rift, AoC, EvE etc. small or large.

[DFade]

Swtor will die cause of shi.t poor PVP implementation. Bioware should have put 80% dev's on pvp. GW2 have seen this coming and is prepared with alot of pvp. Cant wait for the 25th this month. Then swtor is total dead for me. Ohh it has been dead for since 1.3 and no ranked and Illum dead. PVP sucks in this game.

[Wayshuba]

I don't think it's the right question to ask.

 

The question should be this: Is there a company out there today that has the right combination of game developer talent, end user insight, financial backing and willingness to commit to long term, to create a MMO that has enough content, utility and variation at start and regular content updates after?

 

MMOs can succeed....it's the game companies that fail.

 

Agree 100%. Industry is currently plagued with a lot of overinflated designer egos who have no reason to have them given the state of failure in a lot of MMOs. This is exactly what plagued SWTOR and is the main reason for it's dismal failure.

[RyanRhino]

Succeed, yes... To the levels that people wrongly think Star Wars should make it? Nope.

 

I love Star Wars, I've been a fan since day one and I buy it ALL! But, Star Wars is Niche, and so are MMO's, mix them together and you can have an awesome game for the types of people who play these games and enjoy this IP... But there is a sudden need to water Star Wars down in to a bland themepark for kids to make the most money, this way WE ALL LOSE.

 

Realise this will level out at 300k subs and cater to those people, and it will live for 10 years. try to make this a WOW and you might as well delete the game files now.

 

Star Wars is Cool, Immersive and deep full of amazing Lore, try to squeeze that in to a streamlined money maker and it just sucks.

Edited August 12, 2012 by RyanRhino

[Kalfear]

Succeed, yes... To the levels that people wrongly think Star Wars should make it? Nope.

 

I love Star Wars, I've been a fan since day one and I buy it ALL! But, Star Wars is Niche, and so are MMO's, mix them together and you can have an awesome game for the types of people who play these games and enjoy this IP... But there is a sudden need to water Star Wars down in to a bland themepark for kids to make the most money, this way WE ALL LOSE.

 

Realise this will level out at 300k subs and cater to those people, and it will live for 10 years. try to make this a WOW and you might as well delete the game files now.

 

Star Wars is Cool, Immersive and deep full of amazing Lore, try to squeeze that in to a streamlined money maker and it just sucks.

 

I agree but disagree

 

1) there is absolutely no reason this game should level out at 300k subs. It sold 2.1 to 2.4 million units (2.1 was investor report, 2.4 is some fanpage number) so should have NEVER dropped below 1.5 million subscribers.

 

A 25% drop off rate for a AAA MMORPG is acceptable and to be expected as you cant please everyone all the time.

 

But going over the 25% showcases real issues with game.

 

This game, if designed properly, should have leveled out at 1.5 million to 1.8 million subscribers, not 300k

 

2) Agree they shouldnt pander to the kids.

I have ALWAYS felt (and I been around since almost day 1 of the MMORPG genre, 21+ years ago) MMORPGs are ADULT ENTERTAINMENT and shouldnt be marketted or designed for the under 25 crowd.

 

MMORPGs should carry a edge to them,

 

Not saying you need nudity and vulgarity but MMORPGs should fit into a solid PG17 rating at worst and Restricted 18+ at best.

 

And before anyone says Star Wars is not a Adult franchise, I know that. But MMORPGs really should be adult entertainment.

 

Targetting kids and developing for kids just waters down the projects to much.

 

After seeing the "Romantic" cut scenes for all 4 republic classes. Id honestly rather they just left it out if they cant be bothered to do it right (and Im a big fan of pre EA Bioware romances in their RPGs like Mass Effect 1, DA:O, Jade Empire, and even KotOR (though K2 was better for romance if you played a Male Exile who romances both V and Handmaiden....heh they actually start fighting and argueing over you to point other crew members start to make comments to you).

 

3) But yeah, develop to your base. In MMORPGs, most of the base is 20+. So developing for that base would be the smart thing.

 

4) I dont hate TOR, Ive actually been enjoying it more lately.

But if CDRed Projekt announced a Witcher MMORPG or Cyberpunk (their new franchise coming out based on old table top RPG from the 80s) MMORPG. Id jump ship in a minute and never look back because I KNOW they would design the game for adults, not kids. Smart writing, intellegent designs, 18+ content, stunning visuals, and DEEP storylines that are mature in nature.

 

Sadly, if EA announced a ME MMORPG now, I dont think id bother with it. It would just be more watered down stuff like TOR is.

 

If the original crew of ME1 however were given full permission to make a ME MMORPG void of any EA interference and censorship. Id buy it in a second and LOVE THE GAME ENDLESSLY.

 

Mass Effect 1 is exactly how MMORPGs storylines and cutscreens and content should play out.

 

Mature with out being vulgar

Erotic with out being ****

Fully developed characters that react differently and treat you differently based on your actions

 

Love the voice acting in TOR and dont think I will ever be able to go back to just reading the text box.

 

But the conversation options and their results in TOR are pretty weak I must admit.

[Daethorz]

Yes it needs to be Unique and Engaging, it needs to push the envelope.

 

Swtor did not do that, its endgame has become a form of WoW's endgame, and most people find that unacceptable, WoW is losing population because of its boring endgame, and Swtor jumped on the same bandwagon, and now they are going to get the same results, but even faster because they dident have a established loyal playerbase.

[Moatcarp]

Yes it needs to be Unique and Engaging, it needs to push the envelope.

 

Swtor did not do that, its endgame has become a form of WoW's endgame, and most people find that unacceptable, WoW is losing population because of its boring endgame, and Swtor jumped on the same bandwagon, and now they are going to get the same results, but even faster because they dident have a established loyal playerbase.

 

The Secret World did that... and nobody bought it.

 

Planetside did that... and nobody bought it.

 

Age of Conan did that... and nobody bought it

 

TERA did that... and nobody bought it

 

Tabula Rasa did that... and nobody bought it

 

The matrix online did that... and nobody bought it.

 

The MMO graveyard is littered with games that are unique and engaging, and that push the envelope

[TKMaster]

I agree but disagree

 

1) there is absolutely no reason this game should level out at 300k subs. It sold 2.1 to 2.4 million units (2.1 was investor report, 2.4 is some fanpage number) so should have NEVER dropped below 1.5 million subscribers.

 

A 25% drop off rate for a AAA MMORPG is acceptable and to be expected as you cant please everyone all the time.

 

But going over the 25% showcases real issues with game.

 

This game, if designed properly, should have leveled out at 1.5 million to 1.8 million subscribers, not 300k

 

2) Agree they shouldnt pander to the kids.

I have ALWAYS felt (and I been around since almost day 1 of the MMORPG genre, 21+ years ago) MMORPGs are ADULT ENTERTAINMENT and shouldnt be marketted or designed for the under 25 crowd.

 

MMORPGs should carry a edge to them,

 

Not saying you need nudity and vulgarity but MMORPGs should fit into a solid PG17 rating at worst and Restricted 18+ at best.

 

And before anyone says Star Wars is not a Adult franchise, I know that. But MMORPGs really should be adult entertainment.

 

Targetting kids and developing for kids just waters down the projects to much.

 

After seeing the "Romantic" cut scenes for all 4 republic classes. Id honestly rather they just left it out if they cant be bothered to do it right (and Im a big fan of pre EA Bioware romances in their RPGs like Mass Effect 1, DA:O, Jade Empire, and even KotOR (though K2 was better for romance if you played a Male Exile who romances both V and Handmaiden....heh they actually start fighting and argueing over you to point other crew members start to make comments to you).

 

3) But yeah, develop to your base. In MMORPGs, most of the base is 20+. So developing for that base would be the smart thing.

 

4) I dont hate TOR, Ive actually been enjoying it more lately.

But if CDRed Projekt announced a Witcher MMORPG or Cyberpunk (their new franchise coming out based on old table top RPG from the 80s) MMORPG. Id jump ship in a minute and never look back because I KNOW they would design the game for adults, not kids. Smart writing, intellegent designs, 18+ content, stunning visuals, and DEEP storylines that are mature in nature.

 

Sadly, if EA announced a ME MMORPG now, I dont think id bother with it. It would just be more watered down stuff like TOR is.

 

If the original crew of ME1 however were given full permission to make a ME MMORPG void of any EA interference and censorship. Id buy it in a second and LOVE THE GAME ENDLESSLY.

 

Mass Effect 1 is exactly how MMORPGs storylines and cutscreens and content should play out.

 

Mature with out being vulgar

Erotic with out being ****

Fully developed characters that react differently and treat you differently based on your actions

 

Love the voice acting in TOR and dont think I will ever be able to go back to just reading the text box.

 

But the conversation options and their results in TOR are pretty weak I must admit.

 

1) That was hype created by blogs, websites, and th MMO nomads looking for that messiah MMO that will never come.

 

2) I disagree completly, i've been around a long time as well and TBQH we older players dont have the time on average that we had say in college when most of us were sinking all nighters into UO and / or EQ. Most of us have Jobs, families, bills, ect. now. 15-25 year olds have time to harcore, most of us adults hardly even have time to log in.

[Tic-]

The Secret World did that... and nobody bought it.

 

Planetside did that... and nobody bought it.

 

Age of Conan did that... and nobody bought it

 

TERA did that... and nobody bought it

 

Tabula Rasa did that... and nobody bought it

 

The matrix online did that... and nobody bought it.

 

The MMO graveyard is littered with games that are unique and engaging, and that push the envelope

 

So unique suppose to guarentee success as well?

 

I could tell you why a few of those games didn't work out (at least in my opinion), I didnt play all however. Perhaps they lacked engaging?

 

There are also games like League of legends, Uncharted waters online, EvE, that do work out.

 

No one is guarenteed success

 

/shrug

Edited August 12, 2012 by Tic-

[LibertySol]

There are basic things that MMO devs need to have at launch. The reality people don't like to play a game that has far less features then the game they're coming from.

 

Group Finder and PvP are 2.

[XTREDEN]

Maybe they need to stop trying to make WoW, and make their own MMO.

 

Yeah I think its this. Thing is, why would a consumer PAY for a WoW clone when they can PAY for the actual WoW, which has the advantage of 9m subs to boot. People pay for the real thing when they can afford it.

 

What does work is when you don't have to PAY for a knock off then people are going to gobble up the clones. Like LOTRO. Then you start adding advertisements and bells and whistles people will pay for. The thing that is great about it from the consumer standpoint is you pay for what you want, not for a bunch of fluff.

 

So in short, if your going to make a WoW clone from here on out it needs to be F2P or B2P. The market clearly doesn't support two fantasy MMO's (probably because fantasy is about immersion and you cannot lose yourself in two games like that at once).

 

BW probably knows this, what they were originally banking on was that the market can support 1 major Fantasy subscription and 1 major Sci-Fi subscription at the same time and it probably could have if they had made a better product from the start.

[Moatcarp]

Yeah I think its this. Thing is, why would a consumer PAY for a WoW clone when they can PAY for the actual WoW, which has the advantage of 9m subs to boot. People pay for the real thing when they can afford it.

 

What does work is when you don't have to PAY for a knock off then people are going to gobble up the clones. Like LOTRO. Then you start adding advertisements and bells and whistles people will pay for. The thing that is great about it from the consumer standpoint is you pay for what you want, not for a bunch of fluff.

 

So in short, if your going to make a WoW clone from here on out it needs to be F2P or B2P. The market clearly doesn't support two fantasy MMO's (probably because fantasy is about immersion and you cannot lose yourself in two games like that at once).

 

BW probably knows this, what they were originally banking on was that the market can support 1 major Fantasy subscription and 1 major Sci-Fi subscription at the same time and it probably could have if they had made a better product from the start.

 

Because when a developer makes something radically different from WoW, nobody buys it and players complain that it's not enough like WoW.

[CommunitySupport]

Hello everyone! We appreciate you sharing your thoughts, but will be closing this thread as it does not discuss Star Wars: The Old Republic, but MMOs in general. We ask that all threads on the forums discuss SWTOR. Thanks for your understanding.