Envyyyyyyy Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Focus spec sentinel force sweep can do almost 7k in PVE it can do almost 8k. Once you get better gear you'll mitigate these hits. Instead of coming on here and complaining how about you learn to get geared up and kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrykilX Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) It requires a jump to set up the 100% crit and 4 stacks of shockwave. Plus it only happens at the location of the Smash user. It is pretty easy to avoid if you have any awareness at all. Granted, it really sucks to get hit by one, but that's your fault for letting the guy build up those buffs and stand on top of you. I am well aware of how it works. Hence, the part of the post where I mentioned I played my guardian. The point of the post was to put the very high damage of the ability into perspective regardless of the expertise difference between the Guardian/Jugg and targets. No other single target low cooldown ability in the game hits as hard a Focus AE Smash/Sweep and it is also undefendable short of resilience. It's just very poor pvp balance design. To be fair, this is another game issue that is not solely the fault of the focus/rage build being too strong. It's a combination of poor warzone design mixed with poor pvp balance that really brings it to acknowledgement. Edited August 9, 2012 by WrykilX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I am well aware of how it works. Hence, the part of the post where I mentioned I played my guardian. The point of the post was to put the very high damage of the ability into perspective regardless of the expertise difference between the Guardian/Jugg and targets. No other single target low cooldown ability in the game hits as hard a Focus AE Smash/Sweep and it is also undefendable short of resilience. It's just very poor pvp balance design. To be fair, this is another game issue that is not solely the fault of the focus/rage build being too strong. It's a combination of poor warzone design mixed with poor pvp balance that really brings it to acknowledgement. That rotation has to be one of the most easiest to counter, if you couldn't get out the way (takes long enough to set up the Smash) then wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You're** You're** your post is my favorite in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrykilX Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 That rotation has to be one of the most easiest to counter, if you couldn't get out the way (takes long enough to set up the Smash) then wow. The rotation starts off instant. I build can a full hitting smash/sweep instantly. Stop being silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I am well aware of how it works. Hence, the part of the post where I mentioned I played my guardian. The point of the post was to put the very high damage of the ability into perspective regardless of the expertise difference between the Guardian/Jugg and targets. No other single target low cooldown ability in the game hits as hard a Focus AE Smash/Sweep and it is also undefendable short of resilience. It's just very poor pvp balance design. To be fair, this is another game issue that is not solely the fault of the focus/rage build being too strong. It's a combination of poor warzone design mixed with poor pvp balance that really brings it to acknowledgement. And as a general rule of thumb, if a jugg jumps at you and is not glowing red after the jump, more than likely you have a smasher in your face. Knock back. Immediately. If you are ranged, walk the other way and keep kiting/attacking. Smash jugg problem solved. If you are melee, it gets more tricky, but chances are, a defensive CD could make your life a lot easier at that point if you want to keep fighting the same dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabrae Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Stopped reading when you said your in Recruit Gear. This. Sorry OP but you lack Expertise,,,ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrykilX Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) And as a general rule of thumb, if a jugg jumps at you and is not glowing red after the jump, more than likely you have a smasher in your face. Knock back. Immediately. If you are ranged, walk the other way and keep kiting/attacking. Smash jugg problem solved. If you are melee, it gets more tricky, but chances are, a defensive CD could make your life a lot easier at that point if you want to keep fighting the same dude. I counter it often enough against a single Jugg/Guardian just fine. I couldn't care one way or another whether the build gets tweaked again. I know the problems with it are not squarely because of the build. I'm just correcting some of the dumb things said in defense of the ability like the rotation is difficult to pull off/requires a lot of time or the big damage is solely because of the expertise difference, etc. Edited August 9, 2012 by WrykilX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The damage is fair. Because the entire skill tree is built around a single ability. Sure, they have other attacks, but compared to a sustained dps class, their other attacks fall short in any others' dps race. Adding to it that you can see the attack coming beforehand, the damage is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSolidPat Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 And as a general rule of thumb, if a jugg jumps at you and is not glowing red after the jump, more than likely you have a smasher in your face. Knock back. Immediately. If you are ranged, walk the other way and keep kiting/attacking. Smash jugg problem solved. If you are melee, it gets more tricky, but chances are, a defensive CD could make your life a lot easier at that point if you want to keep fighting the same dude. Your knockback take as much time to cast as a Smash. As I have said before on a thread you have already read, YOU CANNOT anticipate when an instant Smash will hit. The only thing you can do is Knockback after a charge HOPING his next global will be Smash as a Sorc or Consul. As a sniper you can put the auto-knockback shield. Either way, Charge - Scream - Smash in that order will do full damage wether you like it or not. Nobody who has played Rage for longer than a week will Smash after a charge, so have fun knocking back a 10 yard Force Scream, it will still it you. And what will you do for the next 4 Smash before Kockback is back up? I have played all specs in PVP, and I assure you, you cannot neutralize a good Rage jugg, be realistic. You don't have the tools to keep up with 3 leaps: Charge, Obliterate and Intervene and you are not a jedi in real life, you cannot predict when I will hit my smash button. I must miss 10% of my Smashes in game at tops. How are you clowns calling this neutralized lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) If you are ranged class, what is wrong with knocking him back anytime he charges? He still has to close the gap, and you are a ranged class. You shine when you are away from your target. That is your best defense. Knockback and walk away, he hits force scream? Good! You keep walking the other way. Each knockback also has slow/root effect AFAIK, so he won't be coming near you. Obliterate has 10m range. Intercede is to a friendly target. So unless you are walking into the enemy ranks, you are doing a good job. And CD on charge is 12 seconds. I believe shockwaves will be gone by that time. So, he has to start building those stacks from start. Most likely, he won't bother with you if he realizes he can't catch up and change target to spend his smash. Edited August 9, 2012 by Ghostuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Min/Max'd (mods/enchancemets swapped for maximum power and surge values, belt/bracers are oranges with the best craftable armoring for strength) Rage Juggs/Focus Guardians still have smash values of 5800-7200 against full WH geared opponents (requires that they stack power and surge). Highest smash damage my juggy guildmate has done to a WH geared opponent was 8147, but this was to a sorcerer without any bubble up and I had given him Bloodthirst. Fortunately, there are talents for quite a few classes that reduce AoE damage values by 30% (certainly seems to be far greater than that). Highest smash that the same juggernaut guildmate has smashed my BM geared Deception Assassin (undergeared -under 1200 expertise, and missing ~2% mitigation that WH armor would give me over BM- and easily the squishiest class in the game, mind you) was 3871 (this was done as a test from several duels - I didn't fight back, and all of his smashes occured after a charge or obliterate while he had full shockwave stacks) - his smash damage values were 3300-3700 typically, with 3871 being the highest out of ~ 15 smashes. Smash hits hard, regardless of expertise value (albeit he has gotten 10k+'s with my bloodthirst on him against those PvE heroes in unranked warzones) and all rage/focus specced classes have a flat 20% armor penetration while in shii-cho form (and +6% force damage with single-saber mastery talent) but... smash really isn't as overpowered as people think, since they can easily be countered by smart players (sorc/sages removing crush/exhaustion from their teammates, teammates interrupting force choke/stasis -this will deprive them of their stacks to empower it- and then there are some classes -marauder mostly, but a couple others CAN- get the AoE damage reduction talents which will make those smash-a-holics get frustrated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luochaz Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 it does take skill to pull off large hits like that. i lol'd.. good one sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSolidPat Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 If you are ranged class, what is wrong with knocking him back anytime he charges? He still has to close the gap, and you are a ranged class. You shine when you are away from your target. That is your best defense. Knockback and walk away, he hits force scream? Good! You keep walking the other way. Each knockback also has slow/root effect AFAIK, so he won't be coming near you. Obliterate has 10m range. Intercede is to a friendly target. So unless you are walking into the enemy ranks, you are doing a good job. And CD on charge is 12 seconds. I believe shockwaves will be gone by that time. So, he has to start building those stacks from start. Most likely, he won't bother with you if he realizes he can't catch up and change target to spend his smash. I can't recall this being an issue in-game. It sounds like forum speculation to me. I'm starting to wonder if you even play a Jugg. First you never charge a sniper initially, since he is in cover. So you have to use Obliterate and then hit enrage or Crush to stack of your shockwave Continuing with your scenario, you hit knockback and i hit Scream, they both hit. Then you proudly start kiting me while at the same time losing your cover. This is where you eat the charge and the smash, followed by a choke - push - charge and smash while not able to hit a single attack. Funny how the kiter becomes the controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WasabiJack Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Just finished a pvp match. I was hit with a smash from a jugg for 6,002 damage, my total hp is 14239. How can anyone not be upset from a hit like that? Yes I'm in recruit gear, this is going to be a brutal climb to get better gear....sigh. I was hit again by the same person for 5,8XX, dont remember the exact amount, later in the same match. hahaha, you must not have been pvp'n much. 6k on someone with 14k hp is on the low end of their spectrum. I've seen hits close to 8k. And yes it's AOE. Thank you, come again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Stopped reading when you said your in Recruit Gear. Being Full WH geared with augs, i as Shadow Tank still receive smashes form Maras for 4,5K. So there is not so big difference is he wears Recruit gear or WH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) First you never charge a sniper initially, since he is in cover. So you have to use Obliterate and then hit enrage or Crush to stack of your shockwave Good job pulling up a specific scenario. I see where it went wrong for snipers. But for snipers specifically, it is easier to counter smash juggs, since they have cover mechanics, and have more than one knockback (although one of them has casting time) and they also have ranged root. They have hunker down or whatever it is called that makes them immune to all interrupts and stuns for 20 secs (while keeping them in place, but it has its own use), they have 2 stuns and ranged slow. Edited since I never played a sniper, I don't know the class' full potential. Snipers have easier time against rage juggs. Edited August 9, 2012 by Ghostuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Getting a 6k~ hit from a rage jugg/guardian is one thing.... getting a 6k~ force sweep hit from a pyro vanguard on the other hand... Now that's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Getting a 6k~ hit from a rage jugg/guardian is one thing.... getting a 6k~ force sweep hit from a pyro vanguard on the other hand... Now that's crazy. Especially as there's no such thing as a pyro Vanguard. Pedantry aside, I assume that happened out in the open world and it was legacy Force Sweep. Or you're just trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I think he means railshot or high impact bolt. Legacy gives you force choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikun Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Stopped reading when you said your in Recruit Gear. Stopped reading at "your" instead of "you're". If you're going to berate someone you could at least sound intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I think he means railshot or high impact bolt. Legacy gives you force choke. No, levelling a Jedi Knight to 50 gives you Legacy Force Sweep. I happen to have it so it's first hand information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostuka Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 No, levelling a Jedi Knight to 50 gives you Legacy Force Sweep. I happen to have it so it's first hand information whoa i thought they mirrored the legacy bonus too. Sith warrior gives force choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Legacy Force Sweep gave me pause when I felt it personally in black hole. PvErs strike back!! Edited August 9, 2012 by Campaigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philastra Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thank Bioware for that. If you could get War Hero only from ranked PvP (or Arena, it's time bioware), people with full BM (or nearly full War Hero), would not queue for normal warzones but would go for Rated Warzones and Arena instead. Normal Warzones would be mostly fights between players with recruit and some BM-pieces EDIT: Typos >_< Yeah then it would create a bigger gap for ppl not a good idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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