Sorcs in PvP....

[skotish]

Ya that cracks me up too.. Whats even more laughable is when I let the sorc think he's got me cc'ed in whirlwind with no cc break, i wait till he turns his back, pop my cc break, drop into cover, hunker down, root him off resolve and light his *** up for more than 1/2 to 3/4 of his life in a couple global cooldowns..

 

 

 

 

 

 

i... mean... wait.. uhm... nothing to see here, keep moving.

I just stay away from snipers period lol on my sorcs well any class i play

[Steele_dk]

I'm SUPER squishy!!!! But as the class is designed it makes sense.

 

Congrats, you just nailed the precise state of mind of many sorcs even though youre still just low level.

 

I also feel like the class is generally fun, either we can run around dotting things up and deathfielding ppl or be a dps turret and nuke ppl with a big 31 talent hit, but here is where the ideal stop and reality begins because sorcs as you put it is just so damn squishy. You cant get that big nuke hit off because it takes 2 seconds to cast. You cant kill any burst classes with dots because they only tickle their hp pool. 1.2 made us into Glass waterpistols, removing our only feared hybrid spec, which is fine, but then they went and continued and nerfed more dmg aswell and made our heal sorcs much more ineffeficient in pvp with longer heals. Any half intelligent dimwit can see that sages/sorcs have the biggest vulnerbilities in pvp atm. Light armor with few defense talents (why btw does a heavy armor class like PT get 20% reduced dmg taken while stunned talent?), many long casts easy to interupt, easy to root and low dmg.

If you dont see this then you have not played a sorc in a real enviroment.

 

So have fun with your sorc experience on low level pvp, once you hit 50 i bet you gonna log your mara or pt again.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Steele_dk

[Kegparty]

nuke ppl with a big 31 talent hit....

So have fun with your sorc experience on low level pvp, once you hit 50 i bet you gonna log your mara or pt again.

 

Ive noticed getting the top tier of the sorc trees are pointless. Maybe that is something that needs to change. The last sentence I agree with. It's sad we are squishy cannon without the cannon part. It's more of a slow bleed class that allows your team to get rocked before you can take someone down.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kegparty

[Steele_dk]

Ive noticed getting the top tier of the sorc trees are pointless. Maybe that is something that needs to change. The last sentence I agree with. It's sad we are squishy cannon without the cannon part. It's more of a slow bleed class that allows your team to get rocked before you can take someone down.

 

Yea perhaps youre right, well more accurate i think its they are worthless in pvp.

I feel that BW has designed many of the sorc mechanics towards a pve enviroment, fx vs long boss fights where the long dot duration is fine and you can cast a 2 second spell safely. In pvp its just a whole different world as i mentioned in my previous post.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Steele_dk

[Steele_dk]

Sorcs are awesome in 1-49, even from lvl 10 since the only defensive ability you will get after that is bubble. It's IMO also the most fun class to play. The problems arise when you ding 50:

 

* Everyone is aware of the "sorc is a free kill" label. Even if this isnt necessarily true it still means that you will get chased around the map in every game. I usually average around 900 objective points on VS due not never being able to be close to the doors.

*Less class diversity. While you will see a wide range of classes in 1-49 it's quickly narrowed down to a few in the 50 bracket. This means that you in many cases will be the only one in the game with the "sorc is a free kill" label. People will literally move away from the guy with 10 % health and chase you instead.

*Damage mitigation is seemingly stuck at lvl 49 for sorcs/sages. The good thing about this is that you won't be as affected by expertise, it simply doesnt help much. The bad thing is ofcourse that even in 1250 expertise you'll take +6K hits from other classes.

 

Spot on m8

 

Especially the label thing, many dps'ers will switch to you when you arrive to the fight with 100% hp from their 30% hp non sorc target. Ask the dps why he does that and you get the general state of sorcs atm.

Maybe if they fix survivability a bit and the sorcs can escape this "focus the sorc first" label we have going on atm.

 

Why dont you focus a marauder first? Because he has Undying rage and camo

 

Why dont you focus a juggernaut first? Because he has Saberward, Endure pain, Enraged defense (yes i know vengance only thing) and heavy armor

 

Why dont you focus a sniper first? Because he is hard to get to, cc immunity, ballistic shield, shield probe and good built in defenses from talents

 

Why dont you focus an operative first? Because he doesnt reveal him self until mid way in the fight and he can escape into stealth just as easy again.

 

Why dont you focus an Shadow first? Because he also is stealth, can re-enter, throw down 2 dmg types immunity

 

Why dont you focus a powertech first? Because he is heavy armor, has energy shield and further more good passive dmg reduction from talents (AP)

 

Why dont you focus a mercenary first? Well you could, if theyre dps they are easy to lockdown aswell, but still have heavy armor and energy shield.

 

 

Why dont you focus a sorc first? Well I got no answer. Do you? (and if you say shield you really dont have any idea how little that stops out of a total dmg arsenal of a dps enemy.)

Edited August 8, 2012 by Steele_dk

[Kegparty]

Being an imp is even worse in my opinion. You have a lightning trail to yourself (HEY LOOK AT ME ILL GO DOWN IN 5 sec). At least rocks are invisible.

 

The better question is: Who can we 1v1? Can you afford one miss click to even have a chance? I know if I miss my rotation on my sorc its toast.

 

Maybe orange gear would help us blend in. The sorc WH gear is like a flag

[fungihoujo]

 

I feel like the class is working as intended so far. Hard to say considering I'm low level but seriously... sorcs are beast. Coupled with some team work and communication I feel godly.

 

 

Everyone who plays a sorc: "The class doesn't scale well at max level where other classes greatly outdamage them, where players are able to focus and interrupt/CC lock them more because there's more skilled players who actually use their abilities, not to mention many of the best classes- like marauder- take a bit longer to blossom and more skill to use well, meaning they are not often very good at low levels or in the hands of the inexperienced."

 

You- "Sorc's rock at low levels so all you so called experienced level 50s saying sorcs aren't good are wrong!"

 

In pre-50 pvp, not including some twinks, most players have relatively equal stats, and more importantly, stats that don't make TTK extremely short in all situations. Anyone can tell you that in a gear equal, high TTK environment where a sorc's CC, kiting ability and slow but steady damage can take effect the class can do well- but, in any situation where other classes can double team a sorc from full to zero in one stun- while a sorc can barely take a bite of health during their own stun, you don't often get to prolong a fight against a good player- and against a good team you are an easy target as well as being utterly useless in every offensive situation due to having the worst burst in the game.

 

And, a sorc is made even worse in any situations where there are healers because they not only can't pressure like mara can (if a sorc is attacking my healer, I can stand still and heal- if a mara is attacking my healer staying still means death and moving means I can't heal, and between leap and short CD interrupt they can lock down my big heal virtually forever- as in, for hours if they wanted to)- and their slow DPS and extreme reliance on long CD dot damage makes them a breeze to cleanse and very simple to heal through, so simple it is the one class which I have never been killed 1 on 1 against as a sorc healer.

 

So, in summary- you've found out that the sorc is great at a level where all the factors that make a sorc terrible in endgame pvp rarely or never actually happen- congrats. I do like though how you're using your low level experience to basically take every single time any 50 sorc tells you why you're wrong and say 'NO, I GOOD AT LEVEL 20 SORC THAT MEAN SORC IS GREAT AND U SUK!!!!!'.

 

But I'm sure if you keep it up people will take it seriously.

 

In b4 response that doesn't show any inkling of level 50 sorc pvp and continues to hold that line that low level pvp has any relevance to level 50 pvp.

[fungihoujo]

Heal up and move on to the next target. The only time we have problems is when a group of 4 or more is focusing and doing it well, but that's a problem for any class and group. When we had a jug and sniper working with us we were near unstoppable.

 

But yes.... bottom line. Team work. Solo I do well... but not nearly as well as when I'm teamed with friends who I can easily communicate and coordinate with.

 

If it takes four people to kill two sorcs- they aren't doing it well, they're absolutely terrible. I can take any two classes with another good player- go into pugs and focus down people no problem- obviously if you have a level of premade play going on you will dominate pugs- which is essentially what you are bragging about.

[fungihoujo]

 

I feel like static barrier is def under rated. How many DCD's can you apply to your ENTIRE team? Me and my guildie pretty much make a habit of having the team covered with barriers all game if possible. Exaggerating of course but seems to make quite the difference. I wish this number would show in protection just so I could see the numbers of how much damage we actually negate in each WZ.

 

Actually, this is the one thing you've said that makes sense. Even as a DPS sorc static barrier is probably your best ability as a sorc- and that is despite the fact that it scales atrociously, and all crit/surge rating is utterly useless since it is one of those few abilities that cannot crit, meaning the ability is again something fantastic at low levels but not nearly as good at high levels. It is the sole reason any rated team will take a single sorc, ever- without it there is absolutely zero a sorc has to offer a team, outside of the very specific utility of extricate on huttball offensive when you have a team that isn't very good at passing or using leaps.

 

I'm not sure if it is underrated though- pretty much all sorcs realize how vital it is to healing (despite not scaling well) due to it being the only useful thing you can use while moving, or as DPS as it'll be the only heal-like ability you'll get off normally.

Edited August 8, 2012 by fungihoujo

[Kegparty]

I think a lot of people that don't admit sorcs need something done to the class are the people only with a sorc or are leveling a sorc. The one great thing about having a sorc at level 50 is having the buff for all of your alts.

 

The main problem with EA doing anything about sorcs is that they do have the "numbers". They can get incredible damage doing AOE or long lasting dot damage. This is not effective damage at contributing to a warzone. Maybe if they doubled the effect of alacrity considering they stack alacrity in all of the WH gear with little surge in comparison.

 

Alacrity stacking seems to not matter at the moment in the current system. (yes some effect but I would much rather have surge).

 

Its almost like you have to replace every other mod but the armoring to stack surge thus requiring you to get multiple WH items.

[islander]

Right, sorc burst damage is once per 90 seconds (thanks recklessness!). When I have recklessness up and use it properly, I can take down light/medium armor people about 50/50. I do occasionally solo people, even bad mara's/sents (I stress, bad).

 

Maybe if they dropped recklessness it to 45-60 seconds, we might be collectively singing a different tune offensively.

Edited August 8, 2012 by islander

[Kegparty]

Right, sorc burst damage is once per 90 seconds (thanks recklessness!). When I have recklessness up and use it properly, I can take down light/medium armor people about 50/50. I do occasionally solo people, even bad mara's/sents (I stress, bad).

 

Maybe if they dropped recklessness it to 45-60 seconds, we might be collectively singing a different tune offensively.

 

Reduced rec cooldown + fixed the gear stats for WH or at least the next TIER that they put out. For the love of god they better not be sticking to this alacrity thing.

 

IF they did that I would love to dust off my old sorc. They are a blast to play.

[Daiyukie]

Reduced rec cooldown + fixed the gear stats for WH or at least the next TIER that they put out. For the love of god they better not be sticking to this alacrity thing.

 

IF they did that I would love to dust off my old sorc. They are a blast to play.

 

And how does alacrity not benefit you?

[Kegparty]

And how does alacrity not benefit you?

 

Lets just pretend alacrity actually helps dot speed (was this proven? I dont know).. Great my 10 sec dot now ticks for the full amount in 9 sec (does it do more damage? ) You are wasting a whole stat. Its similar to going into PVE situations with PVP gear wasting your expertise stats when you would rather have main stat or power replacing the alacrity.

 

THE ENTIRE SORC SET stacks alacrity.

 

If you could replace your alacrity with power or surge or anything else would you? uhh yah

 

The top sorcs that actually play their characters buy multiple sets of warhero (insane? no). That is an unreasonable request for people that actually want to make their character competitive. (well sorta competitive)

 

The whole problem is that if we collectively keep putting up fluff AOE and dot numbers they wont correct the class and you wont see a rated group consisting of multiple sorcs unless they properly grind out multiple sets of WH gear.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kegparty

[Darth_Philar]

And how does alacrity not benefit you?

 

In this game every AC has 1-2 secondary stats that are the most important for them. While stacking stats that are not these "priority" stats will still give them a benefit, they would benefit more from stacking their priority.

 

WIth Sorcs, Alacrity actually serves to hurt your character since all it really does is make you go Out of Force much more quickly while adding no real benefit (healers with their ridiculously long cast times may actually get some marginal use from Alacrity and are the exception to the rule).

[Kegparty]

And on another note if your properly using your wraith proc you wont be casting your main dot or lightning strike (when you are low on mana) thus negating alacrity yet again. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kegparty
typo

[Chikun]

And how does alacrity not benefit you?

 

Burst damage with instant cast DDs and DoTs

[SinnedWill]

Being an imp is even worse in my opinion. You have a lightning trail to yourself (HEY LOOK AT ME ILL GO DOWN IN 5 sec). At least rocks are invisible.

 

The better question is: Who can we 1v1? Can you afford one miss click to even have a chance? I know if I miss my rotation on my sorc its toast.

 

Maybe orange gear would help us blend in. The sorc WH gear is like a flag

 

I 1v1 all marauders/sents with ease -though it takes a while- (as madness sorc.) even if they're very good, I also easily 1v1 all rage/focus juggs/guardians, and all tank-specs (excluding assassin/shadow). Unfortunately, however, it's pretty tough to 1v1 any other class/spec in the hands of a good player with full gear but... I can at least put some big damage on some classes (PT/VG - due to my DoT's) before dying.

[Jaiyne]

Ive noticed getting the top tier of the sorc trees are pointless. Maybe that is something that needs to change.

 

I disagree. The 31 point Balance talent is IMO the best of the sage 31 point talents. It's very strong although ofc, won't save you from a zerg Helps if you solo hold points as well as pulling someone off an objective, and of course rooting a white barred ball carrier in the fire

[Kegparty]

I disagree. The 31 point Balance talent is IMO the best of the sage 31 point talents. It's very strong although ofc, won't save you from a zerg Helps if you solo hold points as well as pulling someone off an objective, and of course rooting a white barred ball carrier in the fire

 

I know its hard to admit but a top tier spell should not be something that roots for 2 sec and does damage over time for 19 sec.. If this game was a kiting game we would win but sadly its a PVP CC ROOT SLOW BURST DOWN game.

 

I do like that skill for hutball giving your team a chance to actually do the necessary damage since it provides 2sec roots on a fast cooldown. But the spell is hardly worth going to the top.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kegparty

[unixbomber]

Its almost like you have to replace every other mod but the armoring to stack surge thus requiring you to get multiple WH items.

 

I hate to be the one to break this to you but serious pvpers, looking to enhance their characters, have been doing this since the game was released. I've grinded out about 16 pieces of war hero gear in total at this point to maximize power and crit; sometimes that involves saving up to buy a piece of gear solely for the mod or enhancement and not using anything else. If you look carefully at the mods and enhancements in game, outside of the armoring pieces for set bonuses, you can see that you can create a high endurance set with secondary power or crit priorities; likewise, high power focused build at the expense of endurance.

 

I won't be like the typical epeener on the forums and respond to some of you with l2p; instead I'd suggest checking out noxxic.com/swtor as it offers BIS suggestions along with alternative easier to obtain options that are typically several stat points lower via BM gear based on what you're looking to improve. Additionally, askmrrobot.com lets you build your character with legacy buffs, datacron bonuses, gear, etc so that you can swap mods and enhancements around and see exactly how they would alter your bonus damage, healing, etc. It's time well spent.

[Monterone]

I have multiple 50s and my sorc is the only one i get nervous defending a node alone. Name another class like that..

 

This is so true! Out of all the 50s I have, the only class I'm nervous on when I defend a node is my sage/sorc. I know that if I see them coming I can call inc early and root, stun, mezz to buy time. But if a dps operative or a tankassin really wants that node, I've only got seconds to live, no matter what. No time to call inc. Lack of a defensive cooldown.

 

I don't know why people think leaving sages to defend nodes is a good idea? A stealther or a tank should do the job and let sages go dps or heal, as they should.

 

 

So have fun with your sorc experience on low level pvp, once you hit 50 i bet you gonna log your mara or pt again.

 

This is becoming more and more true for me. I had a sorc that I played through beta and then at early release. Played him for about half a year and then retired after I painfully realized what everyone is saying about them now in ranked. After getting a few other classes to 50 and geared I got nostalgic. I created a sage, my first 50 on the pub side, and dropped a bunch of money and time to get her geared... and now after a month or so of fun and reliving some good memories, I am again at a point where I only log the sage in to do the PvP daily -- it simply does not match up to my other classes. I feel like I'm wasting time if I'm playing past the PvP quests.

 

Maybe it's being on the pub side and playing with less serious PvPers, but let's take yesterday as an example. Won 1 match, lost 4, finished the 6 for the daily -- somehow ended up top dps or heals even though we lost most matches.

 

Logged onto my PT, won 9 matches in a row and finished my weekly just like that, effortlessly.

 

I think that sometimes I LIKE the fear and uncertainty of playing a sage, I think that's what still draws me back to it. It takes more skill to pull off and it takes BOSS awareness to play well. However that only works if you have a team who is equally good. If they are not, no class is more frustrating to play than a sage/sorc.

[UGLYMRJ]

 

I have multiple 50s and my sorc is the only one i get nervous defending a node alone. Name another class like that..

 

Any ranged DPS class???

[unixbomber]

Any ranged DPS class???

 

Snipers are underrated for guarding the side nodes, in my opinion.

[UGLYMRJ]

Snipers are underrated for guarding the side nodes, in my opinion.

 

I've never seen it... I don't think I've ever had a problem 1v1 vs a sniper or any ranged DPS class with my 2 melee classes.

 

IMO the only classes capable of attacking nodes are melee DPS.... defending is melee DPS and of course tanks. Solo attacking or defending of course.

 

Of course all of this is subject to skill...