VulcanLogic Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) He says he loves DDO's system and thinks it would be good for SWTOR but then whines that SWTOR won't be doing anything similar, with no proof whatsoever. We just don't know. That said, they'd be crazy not to sell weekly operations passes so that people can pay a little to see if the full subscription fee would be worth it. Bioware knows this, and I'm 99% certain that they will do it for a small fee. After all, on the /free page it says no access to operations, IF YOU ARE PLAYING FOR FREE. It doesn't say "no access ever even if you are willing to pay". That's an important distinction to make, and TB stated quite clearly he thinks this sort of system (for DDO) is completely worthwhile. Edited August 3, 2012 by VulcanLogic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Why do I care what 'Totalbiscuit' says? Same here. Especially with a name like "totalbisquit", which seems to be automatic disqualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynesis Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 As so many people have already said, TB raises some totally valid points and real concerns. He also freely admits that he doesn't have the whole picture, none of us do. In all likelihood the business side of the F2P model will be given a lot of work, they've only announced the parts they're certain about and ready to make public - there's no point revealing anything else still in the works. I wouldn't totally dismiss his opinion. Like him or not, he has seen quite a lot of the gaming industry - from the perspective of a consumer, gamer and critic. But he really is jaded and cynical - check out his early vids of WoW, he absolutely loved it. Somehow though he fell out of love, the relationship didn't work out and ever since he's been going from one game to another, hoping to find that old magic with a new love. Do you seriously think executives and bean counters haven't been hard at work churning through ideas of how to create more flexible, attractive and accessible payment methods? Really? F2P is simply the customer-happy phrasing and base from which they'll encourage people to pay for the content they want - and to encourage others to get involved and sometimes try out the things they may not normally. They want your money and opening up more avenues for you to give it to them, by which consumers feel they're getting what they want, is the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Totalbiscuit supports F2P, next day he opposes it, indecsisive bastard He don't oppose it, he just saying that it seems strange to him how BioWare is doing it, but he also admits that he has not all the facts yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I see the monthly " self validation" thread is in full swing. Hey look at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeth Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Total who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaed Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Argh, someone has a different opinion than me! C'mon gang, lets insult him so everyone can clearly see that we don't take too kindly to them folk around here. Blindly following one opinion and not allowing for anything that may evolve that opinion, for better or for worse, is how things work 'round these parts, and anyone that disagrees can get out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 he just saying that it seems strange to him how BioWare is doing it, but he also admits that he has not all the facts yet. So he is being an oxymoron then..... does not have all the facts, but passes judgement based on negative assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blattan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 So he is being an oxymoron then..... does not have all the facts, but passes judgement based on negative assumptions. Hrmmm... Kind of like all the posters on this forum complaining about SW:TOR "haters..." I thought the video sounded familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) So he is being an oxymoron then..... does not have all the facts, but passes judgement based on negative assumptions. Have you even watched it? It was no judgement, just an opinion, and it was not based on negative assumptions, just on how other F2P games work (to which he has no negative feeling to). I think the interesting point he said is that many consider the story as the part that works in SWTOR and that this is what many want to play, and BioWare is giving that completely away for free... which means they might end up making less money, because there are no real incentives to send money when all that people would like to do is already free. And I have to admit I think that is strange, but maybe it might work... Edited August 3, 2012 by Drudenfusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yinata Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 If you listen to what he says, he makes a very valid point that many of the people that want to play TOR yet don't want to subscribe just want to experience the class stories, and if these are free there's really nothing to drive them to use the cash shop outside convenience buffs for XP, but honestly if someone just wants to play through the stories they probably don't want to increase their leveling speed and want to take it slow and enjoy it. This is the real problem, that most the people that marked subscription as their cancel comment aren't going to subscribe and just play the free class stories, be done in a couple months and stop playing, many not having any reason to buy anything from the cash shop and benefit the game with increased revenue stream. The fact remains they have done nothing to fix the real problem of why people don't stay subscribed to SWTOR, which is the lack of content they were able to produce under a simple subscription model where you are only supporting one set of content. I for one am not buying the lies that with having to now develop for both a cash shop/F2P version and a Subscription version that the quality and amount of quality content that will keep subscribers will increase. If anything looking at their AOC transition and WarHammer transition recently, it will be a lot of fluff that is designed to keep attention just long enough for them to implement more fluff, so it won't be good content that will attract subs, it will be fluff to milk whatever money they can out of the subs they have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Have you even watched it? It was no judgement, just an opinion, and it was not based on negative assumptions, just on how other F2P games work (to which he has no negative feeling to). I think the interesting point he said is that many consider the story as the part that works in SWTOR and that this is what many want to play, and BioWare is giving that completely away for free... which means they might end up making less money, because there are no real incentives to send money when all that people would like to do is already free. And I have to admit I think that is strange, but maybe it might work... He creates concerns about how they are not doing it the way he thinks they should, yet he admits that he does not have specific facts about how they are going to do it yet. Oxymoronic behavior. He sounds like just another game basher to me. Sorry that I do not worship at his feet and all that. You go ahead and worship him. I'll pass, and wait and see what Bioware actually releases rather then what Totalbisquit pulls out of his keester. Edited August 3, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazshen Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Personal opinions aside, TB raises the very good point that the bit people actually want to see from SW:TOR is that which makes a Bioware game - the story - is going to be free. That's concerning because people will be able to get the best par t for free - hence they won't donate money - hence freemium has difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaed Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 He creates concerns about how they are not doing it the way he thinks they should, yet he admits that he does not have specific facts about how they are going to do it yet. Oxymoronic behavior. He sounds like just another game basher to me. Sorry that I do not worship at his feet and all that. You go ahead and worship him. I'll pass, and wait and see what Bioware actually releases rather then what Totalbisquit pulls out of his keester. A game basher wouldn't admit that he's biased. A game basher would assert that he has all the information and that what he is saying is not opinion, but fact. Making speculation based on a small amount of information is just that: speculation. By saying that he doesn't have specific facts, he admits that what he is putting forward is speculation, that any new information released by Bioware may change his opinion. I don't have any idea how this whole F2P thing will play out. Neither do you. Nor does TotalBiscuit, or anyone else in this thread. Claiming that one person is wrong based on their speculative opinion just because your speculative opinion differs, well... That's bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 He creates concerns about how they are not doing it the way he thinks they should, yet he admits that he does not have specific facts about how they are going to do it yet. Oxymoronic behavior. He sounds like just another game basher to me. Sorry that I do not worship at his feet and all that. You go ahead and worship him. I'll pass, and wait and see what Bioware actually releases rather then what Totalbisquit pulls out of his keester. I don't worship him... but I see that how BioWare does it might be end up as a new problem. Sure, I also don't know if it will be truly a problem, and waiting on more information from BioWare. But still am worried, that BioWare will make not enough money, and so might either turn to pay to win or shut down the game. Don't get me wrong, I think it's nice that they don't separate the players during the level experience, but since that it is what all that many of the KOTOR fans what (they don't need the raids and such things), so they get everything they want for free and have not even to think about spending money... aren't you just a little concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yinata Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Personal opinions aside, TB raises the very good point that the bit people actually want to see from SW:TOR is that which makes a Bioware game - the story - is going to be free. That's concerning because people will be able to get the best par t for free - hence they won't donate money - hence freemium has difficulty. I agree, he raises a valid point and people's opinions of him aren't allowing them to see it. His point is if 40% left because of the subscription, they likely weren't that interested in the endgame content, they wanted to do the stories which are completely free. As Total said they will complete this and be done with the game, and if they are just playing for the stories there's really no reason to buy the XP perks and other legacy junk as they just want to pace through the story. This won't fix the problem that there isn't enough content to keep subscribers, and if their conversion from F2P accounts to subscribers is too low, the subscribers will suffer and the game will fail even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Personal opinions aside, TB raises the very good point that the bit people actually want to see from SW:TOR is that which makes a Bioware game - the story - is going to be free. That's concerning because people will be able to get the best par t for free - hence they won't donate money - hence freemium has difficulty. free to 50. Then as Bioware adds to the story.... poof.... gotta pay. So if story is the sole importance, the dual access model actually incents Bioware to put in more story becasue they can make it premium for purchase in the store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yinata Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 A game basher wouldn't admit that he's biased. A game basher would assert that he has all the information and that what he is saying is not opinion, but fact. Making speculation based on a small amount of information is just that: speculation. By saying that he doesn't have specific facts, he admits that what he is putting forward is speculation, that any new information released by Bioware may change his opinion. I don't have any idea how this whole F2P thing will play out. Neither do you. Nor does TotalBiscuit, or anyone else in this thread. Claiming that one person is wrong based on their speculative opinion just because your speculative opinion differs, well... That's bashing. He's making the speculation based on the fact that likely the %40 that unsubbed due to subscription would play the F2P version for the class stories and quests , and have little reason to use the cash shop for XP perks as this would just make the part they want to experience go faster. Add to this that most of these will have no reason to subscribe and help replenish guilds of subscribers that do Operations and Ranked PvP with new members, and you have blown a hole into an already sinking ship. The fact remains that going F2P with 500k subs is unheard of in the MMO industry, and just show's that EA is greedy and unwilling to do what it takes to fix this game which is adding meaningful content endgame and in other areas of the game that will keep subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leathfuil Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 free to 50. Then as Bioware adds to the story.... poof.... gotta pay. So if story is the sole importance, the dual access model actually incents Bioware to put in more story becasue they can make it premium for purchase in the store. Story is difficult, and expensive to produce. Reskinned Jawas are easy, and cheap to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 aren't you just a little concerned? Nope. I take time to read as many posts as I can from people who unsub from the game. It's not dominated by "story ended, I quit". It's much more diverse then that, and if Mr biscuit did his homework he would know that as well instead of speculating based on sweeping assumptions. Bioware has the exit survey data of the people who have unsubbed since launch, so I'm sure they are in a much better position to know how to tune the new model to maximize active accounts beginning in November. November is good timing too, since the all-hail-GW2 crowd should be peeling off in droves from that game after being yet again disappointed by an MMO launch. So freemium is a perfect model to lure them back, along with many others. Anyone who wanted KOTOR3 and nothing else, this was never the game for them, and never will be. They need to stick to single player releases since they don't really play MMOs much anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The only reviewer that matters is Yahtzee. YEAH I SAID IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazDoit Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 free to 50. Then as Bioware adds to the story.... poof.... gotta pay. So if story is the sole importance, the dual access model actually incents Bioware to put in more story becasue they can make it premium for purchase in the store. Well, in this case it makes more sense that they would want to work on an expansion of sorts. Also its true that free-to-play player will have Story free up to 50, but I assume they will only have 1 character slot, so if they are interested in more stories, they will have to pay, if they are interested in the story beyond 50, they will have to pay as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaPhone Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 You can tell people have an axe to grind here. So whats wrong with this you tuber? Spill the beans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaPhone Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Well, in this case it makes more sense that they would want to work on an expansion of sorts. Also its true that free-to-play player will have Story free up to 50, but I assume they will only have 1 character slot, so if they are interested in more stories, they will have to pay, if they are interested in the story beyond 50, they will have to pay as well. Yes, but being a paying subcriber unlocks everything for one month. So they only have to pay once to get what they want, and only pay for ops in the future if they should choose to do so. It would only be something else, if indeed, after not paying and going back to F2P they removed storage space, GTN 50 items, and locked characters beyond the 1 character slot etc etc. Which I doubt they would do, so its really $15 for everything, and then what ever it costs for more WZs, FPs and ops after that first month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandana_ Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 And the purpose of this thread was?? This was constructive how?? Whatever you may think of TB he's an experienced and popular game journalist and it doesn't hurt to listen to opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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