Has a game ever failed after going F2P?

[Felioats]

I know Turbine's games made a mint, and industry analysts (read: news website bloggers) started saying the subscription model was dying out and companies would make more money by not even bothering with it anymore.

[Gradivus]

I know Turbine's games made a mint, and industry analysts (read: news website bloggers) started saying the subscription model was dying out and companies would make more money by not even bothering with it anymore.

 

That's probably true. LotRO, DDO and AoC have multiplied their player bases and revenue by adopting the "freemium" model. People still freak out about it because they're stupid.

[Redundant]

Keep in mind that SWTOR is going a hybrid model. It will be sub and F2P. Those people who sub will notice virtually no difference apart from a monthly allocation of Cartel Points.

 

What TOR has basically done is widened its potential player base by a lot.

[Vellem]

That's probably true. LotRO, DDO and AoC have multiplied their player bases and revenue by adopting the "freemium" model. People still freak out about it because they're stupid.

 

Multiplying your players and revenue might be good if you are a shareholder or investor (are you?) but what exactly did the players get out of the deal? Did they get a better game? Or did they get a game that asked you to open you wallet every time you logged in, with shoddy, barebones expansions and a store full of items to take away the sting of all the newly introduced grinds?

[Cordelia]

Keep in mind that SWTOR is going a hybrid model. It will be sub and F2P. Those people who sub will notice virtually no difference apart from a monthly allocation of Cartel Points.

 

What TOR has basically done is widened its potential player base by a lot.

 

Not really. There isn't much benefit to subbing, also many people have unsubbed because of this announcement. It will of course bring in the freeloaders but if they wouldn't pay for a sub what makes you think they will spend a fortune in the store.

[Nerdcommando]

Define Fail.

 

MMO Players are diverse and contradictory in what they are looking for from the same game. They have yet to fail as a franchise. They have already failed a few things, mastered others. The only real question you have to answer is - do i like this game.

 

Personally I am scared of the freemium/f2p whatever you wish to call it - but I will stay to see what happens. I was enjoying the game on 7/30 why shouldnt I enjoy it on 8/1?

[MasterKayote]

I know Turbine's games made a mint, and industry analysts (read: news website bloggers) started saying the subscription model was dying out and companies would make more money by not even bothering with it anymore.

 

F2P is a fail.

 

F2P = Failed 2 Profit

 

And those "industry analyst" (read: the tools at mmorpg.com) promoted the business model that 90% of their advertisers have. Surprise, surprise.

[Felioats]

Define Fail.

 

MMO Players are diverse and contradictory in what they are looking for from the same game. They have yet to fail as a franchise. They have already failed a few things, mastered others.

 

By "fail" I mean to cease operating; close; terminate.

[Andryah]

Multiplying your players and revenue might be good if you are a shareholder or investor (are you?) but what exactly did the players get out of the deal?

 

They got a better game, and more importantly did not get a game that shut down because the producer would have gone broke keeping it open. LoTRO and DDO have both grown, made Turbine lots of money, and Turbine has released a lot of new expansion content for them (not just cash shop fluff, real content expansions). Turbine blazed the trail for the Freemium dual access model that SWTOR is moving to, not only proving it to be successful, but calling in to question why any MMO would be P2P moving forward. I don't think even Blizzard will release another P2P MMO.

[LaVolpex]

for the developers? a few have, lotro is "financially " successful

 

for the gamers? yes, they all have, horribly...if a game wasnt designed with a f2p model in mind, it hardly is a good product for the gamer, you literally "get what you pay(or dont pay in this case) for "

 

mediocre fluff and content , with the innevitable slow and gradual shift to a pay2win or pay2progress model , so for me as a gamer, everyone of them has failed

 

free to play games from the start on the other hand have had more succes and are some fun sometimes, league of legends is an example, you can play that for a couple of weeks, grind some ip, buy a character or two, then forget about it and if you ever feel like it , spend 10 bucks ona rp card and buy like 3 champ skins or whatver

[LaVolpex]

They got a better game, and more importantly did not get a game that shut down because the producer would have gone broke keeping it open. LoTRO and DDO have both grown, made Turbine lots of money, and Turbine has released a lot of new expansion content for them (not just cash shop fluff, real content expansions). Turbine blazed the trail for the Freemium dual access model that SWTOR is moving to, not only proving it to be successful, but calling in to question why any MMO would be P2P moving forward. I don't think even Blizzard will release another P2P MMO.

 

honestly these "Expansions " are grindy content designed to push you to the "convenience" of the cash shop items to cut down the grind...its nothing more than a smokescreen for the shopping mall they have set up , no thank u , think its time to go back to console gaming and maybe rift

[Vellem]

They got a better game, and more importantly did not get a game that shut down because the producer would have gone broke keeping it open. LoTRO and DDO have both grown, made Turbine lots of money, and Turbine has released a lot of new expansion content for them (not just cash shop fluff, real content expansions). Turbine blazed the trail for the Freemium dual access model that SWTOR is moving to, not only proving it to be successful, but calling in to question why any MMO would be P2P moving forward. I don't think even Blizzard will release another P2P MMO.

 

Are you really saying that Rise of Isenguard was a good, content filled expansion?

[Valkirus]

Keep in mind that SWTOR is going a hybrid model. It will be sub and F2P. Those people who sub will notice virtually no difference apart from a monthly allocation of Cartel Points.

 

What TOR has basically done is widened its potential player base by a lot.

 

LOTRO has a sub also. 9.99 per month. So BioWare is doing nothing new.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Valkirus

[Andryah]

Not really. There isn't much benefit to subbing

 

There is a lot of benefit to subbing. Free players will have to buy coins and a-la-carte their way into content, which will end up being more money out of pocket for most.

 

also many people have unsubbed because of this announcement.

 

I don't see that so far. I see maybe two or three dozen who have threatened to. If they enjoy the game on 7/30, they will still enjoy the game when the dual access model goes live in a few months.

 

It will of course bring in the freeloaders but if they wouldn't pay for a sub what makes you think they will spend a fortune in the store.

 

It will indeed bring in freeloaders, which will gunk up chat channels some in some zones. These same people tend to be compulsive gratifications junkies, and when they see shinies on other characters, some of them will impulse buy coins and go shopping. Not all, but I think we both know how self indulgent and self gratifying the average American is.

[KeepMe]

Not really. There isn't much benefit to subbing, also many people have unsubbed because of this announcement. It will of course bring in the freeloaders but if they wouldn't pay for a sub what makes you think they will spend a fortune in the store.

 

some unsubbed because they are pissed that they paid $70 and up for the game + $15 a month to play now

people get to buy the game for $15 and pay nothing to play even if they are restricted in what they can do in the game.

Quite a few people that I know left for that reason alone.

[Cordelia]

There is a lot of benefit to subbing. Free players will have to buy coins and a-la-carte their way into content, which will end up being more money out of pocket

 

It will indeed bring in freeloaders, which will gunk up chat channels some in some zones. These same people tend to be compulsive gratifications junkies, and when they see shinies on other characters, some of them will impulse buy coins and go shopping. Not all, but I think we both know how self indulgent and self gratifying the average American is.

 

Someone gets level 1 -50 free. That's the bulk of the game. It's all about the stories, questing and making alts. For that you pay nothing, so free players won't be buying any content at this stage. Yes, if they want to raid , pvp etc they have to pay but i bet many will just try the stories then go no further.

[boobaffet]

Not really. There isn't much benefit to subbing, also many people have unsubbed because of this announcement. It will of course bring in the freeloaders but if they wouldn't pay for a sub what makes you think they will spend a fortune in the store.

 

1- There's still a lot of benifit for subbing if you want to do stuff like operation, having multiple character, not paying for every new content etc.

 

2- I know a lot of people who would not play league of legend if it wasnt free. I also know people spending money for skins.

 

I think a lot of people will try this game because it is free and some of them will sub, some will buy stuff at the cartel shop and some will be a waste of space. But really who cares, as long as they get more money from this game to produce more content i'm fine with it. And as a bonus i get free cartel coin to spend at the shop with my subs, i always thought swtor lacked fluff.

[Samy_Merchi]

We don't know that they'll get the bulk of the game. For all we know they won't get any quests at all included in F2P, the road to 50 might have to be grinded with storyless trash mobs without any quests.

 

Or a less extreme option, possibly only class quests are included in F2P and you'd need to grind the rest to keep your level apace with class quest level progression. The planet quests other than class would need to be purchased.

 

That's more or less how DDO and LOTRO did it, and as two of the most successful F2P transitions, you can bet EA is looking at their model very closely.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Samy_Merchi

[Wolfninjajedi]

Someone gets level 1 -50 free. That's the bulk of the game. It's all about the stories, questing and making alts. For that you pay nothing, so free players won't be buying any content at this stage. Yes, if they want to raid , pvp etc they have to pay but i bet many will just try the stories then go no further.

 

Stories don't end at 50, they are still going to continue and all that which subbed players will have free access to where as F2P won't. Just because 1-50 is free, doesn't mean in the future as the stories go on and the like will be.

[Andryah]

Are you really saying that Rise of Isenguard was a good, content filled expansion?

 

I'm stating that real expansions are a part of Freemium games.

 

I make no attempt to tell any player the difference between good and bad because that is a waste of air when talking to MMO players. One persons cake is another persons cowpie when it comes to MMO players.

[Andryah]

Someone gets level 1 -50 free. That's the bulk of the game. It's all about the stories, questing and making alts.

 

That is true for some players, not for others. We have to respect all play styles in a discussion.

 

If all the player wants is 1-50 play of the classes, then yes a sub is probably not needed. But they will still end up buying coins to in turn buy access to enhanced travel and other quality of life features in the game that are only available to subs unless you put down coins to purchase.

 

TL;DR this game will cost real life money for most players regardless of which method they choose to play, even the casual story only 1-50 players who like rolling alts.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Andryah

[Jjix]

The pay to play model created the illusion that every MMO made since WoW was something of a relative failure; and this illusion, in turn, created an atmosphere of cynicism and negativity about MMOs in general among the playbase.

 

But the real failure was the pay2play model itself. Once that model is removed -- which I think will be complete in a few years (i.e., all MMOs will be f2p) -- it will seem that the MMO world is filled with one success after another.

 

MMOs haven't been failing because they suck, they have been "failing" because a subscription model for gaming is an oxymoron.

[rlhaas]

Hahaha, you've got it backwards OP. Games fail, THEN go F2P. Ya know, like that stupid Lord of the Rings MMO that people keep touting about as if it were a step behind WoW or something. That game FAILED, and I don't care if they 'multiplied' their subs, when you have 10 subs and multiply it by three, that's 30. That's a big stretch, guys. Get your collective heads out of your collective behinds. SW:TOR has failed, and is going F2P. The sooner you come to grips with that, the more fun you will have when we're all buying 'Darth Maul's Special Saber' for 1200 Cartel Coins.

[Andryah]

MMOs haven't been failing because they suck, they have been "failing" because a subscription model for gaming is an oxymoron.

 

I think there is a lot of truth to this, given the proliferation of console games, and mobile games. They are pushing player expectations strongly into the no-subscription model of thinking.

 

Just like the console games have pushed many MMO players strongly toward racing through to "beat the game", when in fact MMOs are never truly beatin becasue they continue to expand and change over time.

 

People can whine and gnash teeth about failed promises by Bioware if they like, but then they have to stop being hyporcrites and hold every MMO to the same standard. It's the nature of MMOs..... read any MMO forum and you will see this is the case.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Andryah

[Bossa_Nova]

It will of course bring in the freeloaders but if they wouldn't pay for a sub what makes you think they will spend a fortune in the store.

 

History. SWTOR isn't the first game to go F2P. It won't be the last. Clearly there is some indication that people who don't subscribe will pay for items at the cash store. If there wasn't, the model wouldn't exist or be nearly as popular among gaming companies as it is becoming.

 

You can cry doom until you are blue in the face, but the simple fact is that F2P doesn't kill games. In most cases they become more successful or financially viable.

 

It's also a safe bet that most of the people ragequitting on the forums will still be subbing well into SWTOR's F2P life.