Why do people hate SWTOR, really?

[undeniablyjeff]

Now that's a masochist. 8 months of the planet story quests is kinda stretching there. I would not recommend this to anyone.

 

I wouldn't recommend it to modern gamers with Attention Deficit Disorder either. Otherwise, there's nothing at all wrong with enjoying a good story.

Edited August 1, 2012 by undeniablyjeff

[Mitissa]

Now that's a masochist. 8 months of the planet story quests is kinda stretching there. I would not recommend this to anyone.

 

Not straight questing for 8 months =P And yes I do enjoy the pain... Low-mid lvl PvP is entertaining and the flashpoints are more than interesting enough to keep me occupied. Plus I only play about 4-6 hours per week which might change your perception a bit =P.

 

My bottom line was that if you buy a game and aim for the end-game you're only pissing your money away. If you level to 50 in the first 2 weeks you need to find another game to play on the side or get another hobby. Games are meant to be enjoyed... not conquered and dismissed.

[undeniablyjeff]

My bottom line was that if you buy a game and aim for the end-game you're only pissing your money away. If you level to 50 in the first 2 weeks you need to find another game to play on the side or get another hobby. Games are meant to be enjoyed... not conquered and dismissed.

 

Amen, sister.

Edited August 1, 2012 by undeniablyjeff

[CorellianWannabe]

If you've got a problem with how this genre of PC gaming has been run, you've got broader issues than just TOR. To fix that, I suggest you get a job in the industry with the aim to work your way up the corporate ladder with an aim to change at the core how things have worked for many years. Or, at the very least, stop trolling forums so much, enroll in a university program of study, and write a research paper that could actually make a difference.

 

As for my sig, I did give BioWare a chance to fix the memory leaks, which they did. I never had to unsub. I made bug reports and a couple phonecalls too, and within about two months I saw the leaks were fixed on their end somehow. The sig is still there because in general I don't spend enough time on these forums to care about figuring out how to delete it. If you have instructions on how I can do that (which I'm assuming you do), be a pal and drop them right here.

 

If the Ultima model is the best, why have so many deviated from it to greater success? Why didn't it have 10 million players like WoW? Or are true MMO players a select breed who have seen their industry polluted by flithy casuals that don't want to spend weeks camping for a world boss and don't think Player Killing and having gear stolen from their corpse is fun?

 

But you were still willing to leave if your problem wasn't fixed within two months-hardly a shining example of patience which the genre needs. Shouldn't you have kept playing a stuttering leaky game regardless to help it build momentum?

[WickedDjinn]

Blame the mind-set of modern gamers and the saturation of MMO games on the market. Hell... you can't even find a good turn-based RPG anymore because people want action action action. ToR, like many MMO's, harbored people that bought the game, rushed to the level cap, and then whined about lack of content. I've been doing each planet's story-line thoroughly for about 8 months and I think it's an incredible game. People are just impatient and want it all here and now.

 

That's only part of the story.

 

Keep in mind that the number of players who rush to the leveling cap or even reach the cap do not make up the majority. Shocking I know, but it's the same for any MMO. By the way, even in Everquest speed leveling was possible (though it took a group and you had to follow a certain path).

 

The Power Gamer goes back to table top DnD. Same with the min-maxers. If the genre has a problem, they aren't it.

[undeniablyjeff]

But you were still willing to leave if your problem wasn't fixed within two months-hardly a shining example of patience which the genre needs. Shouldn't you have kept playing a stuttering leaky game regardless to help it build momentum?

 

But mom, I did play a "stuttering leaky game regardless to help it build momentum." Please don't beat me, please!

[CorellianWannabe]

Not straight questing for 8 months =P And yes I do enjoy the pain... Low-mid lvl PvP is entertaining and the flashpoints are more than interesting enough to keep me occupied. Plus I only play about 4-6 hours per week which might change your perception a bit =P.

 

My bottom line was that if you buy a game and aim for the end-game you're only pissing your money away. If you level to 50 in the first 2 weeks you need to find another game to play on the side or get another hobby. Games are meant to be enjoyed... not conquered and dismissed.

 

So being excited about a game and having holiday time to play it means you wasted your money? Finding out that the endgame was a bugged joke for months means you should have slowed your leveling to give Bioware time to make it less crappy?

 

Let me guess, you think the leveling is too fast and we should get rid of rested xp? How about getting rid of the 10 respawning mobs you have to kill to get to the mission area, then kill again while leaving?

 

So people that don't spend months getting one char to max level are pissing away money- good thing that won't be a problem anymore then right?

[Andryah]

The SWG forums were ripe with positivity about this game, and much like many WoW players thought this game would be the next great thing.

 

Actually, in the context of MMO hate, this single sentence describes a majority of the reason. Players on other MMO gaming forums worked themselves up to feeling this game would be the next great thing, while the term "great thing" means different things to different people.

 

Example: Chat bubble fiends may not care a rats poop shoot about PvP, or raiding, or anything else that others care about...... but they can all unite ahead of a new MMO release and mutually declare the upcoming MMO property to be the second coming, the cure for all their ill feelings in MMO play, etc. etc. Then the MMO releases, and misplaced expectations are shattered, peoples feelings are hurt and they lash out in any way they can. Gaming forums are almost the perfect medium for lashing out from hurt feelings.

 

And none of this is unique to SWTOR, it's a rolling phenomenon across the portfolio of MMOs. We've seen it here in these forums many times, as the hurt feelings crown hyped up Tera, and then D3, and now GW2. Yet in each case if you visited the Tera and D3 forums a couple of weeks after launch, it's a complete rinse and repeat exercise.

 

TL;DR: Gaming forums are free (or low cost) vent therapy for people who have hurt feelings, are fundamentally unhappy in one or more ways and need desperately to be heard. MMO play is just the enabler and excuse for them to find an outlet for all those negative feelings.

 

Happily, even though it does not look like it sometimes, these folks are a small minority. Most people don't get hurt and lash out when they don't enjoy and MMO, they just move on to something else that they do enjoy.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Andryah

[WickedDjinn]

If the Ultima model is the best, why have so many deviated from it to greater success? Why didn't it have 10 million players like WoW? Or are true MMO players a select breed who have seen their industry polluted by flithy casuals that don't want to spend weeks camping for a world boss and don't think Player Killing and having gear stolen from their corpse is fun?

 

But you were still willing to leave if your problem wasn't fixed within two months-hardly a shining example of patience which the genre needs. Shouldn't you have kept playing a stuttering leaky game regardless to help it build momentum?

 

Some people do Honestly believe that a game should punish more than it rewards. That Everquests delightful habit of erasing real hours of your life by removing exp or even knocking you down a level was a good thing.

[Reysin]

The game had a lot of potential. It had ideas like Mass Effect's "infinite ending" idea. In this game, gear that evolves with you was a really cool idea, since some cool gear comes from lower levels (I personally prefer the troopers level 24 gear from questing than it's end game.)

 

They just failed to deliver what they told. As stated way earlier, that's what killed the game... and peoples super high expectations.

 

What everyone was expecting: World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King (and all it's "perfection") with a Star Wars skin on it.

 

What everyone got: Vanilla WoW with a Star Wars skin.

 

EA tried to market to the casual gamer of the new World of Warcraft. The gamer who doesn't wish to be bothered by the hard stuff that comes from a hardcore game. Bioware wanted to make a difficult game for the hardcore. KOTOR was difficult compared, and that was what I was expecting from this game. I expected Vanilla World of Warcraft.

 

EVERYONE who points to that game shouldn't point to the finished product, but where it stood at the same time this game did. I didn't play the game until roughly one year after it's release (World of Warcraft, that is.) It had bugs, it had issues, it had a dedicated fan base. That game was thoroughly difficult, and leveling after a certain point became a grind. Getting Naxx attuned was a grind. Getting MC attuned was a grind. Hell, the first and ONLY raid at release was Onyxia. That was only one boss, too. People were okay with that. Then the game evolved to it's **** state.

 

I recall somewhere that someone stated we shouldn't go back to where everything was a grind. That's where we should go back to. It'll weed out the ******* who aren't patient enough to earn their right into the end game. This game is hosed, but future games need to go back to grinding to get into the end game. Grinding instances for reputation, farming gold to buy mats (or spending hours trying to get the mats the correct way,) running instances to get your D1 set, and raid bosses that if a few goof up happens, the whole 40 man group gets screwed.

 

Just my rant on the whining idiots lounging around.

[CorellianWannabe]

But mom, I did play a "stuttering leaky game regardless to help it build momentum." Please don't beat me, please!

 

It was your opinion that people leaving after less than 8 months were impatient and killed the game. I'm just saying by your logic you shouldn't have whined about a stuttering leaky game at all-just eaten the crap sandwich for the good of the MMO. Don't talk about problems, all you do is help fuel the impatience and thereby kill the game.

[SNCommand]

Actually, in the context of MMO hate, this single sentence describes a majority of the reason. Players on other MMO gaming forums worked themselves up to feeling this game would be the next great thing, while the term "great thing" means different things to different people.

 

Example: Chat bubble fiends may not care a rats poop shoot about PvP, or raiding, or anything else that others care about...... but they can all unite ahead of a new MMO release and mutually declare the upcoming MMO property to be the second coming, the cure for all their ill feelings in MMO play, etc. etc. Then the MMO releases, and misplaced expectations are shattered, peoples feelings are hurt and they lash out in any way they can. Gaming forums are almost the perfect medium for lashing out from hurt feelings.

 

And none of this is unique to SWTOR, it's a rolling phenomenon across the portfolio of MMOs. We've seen it here in these forums many times, as the hurt feelings crown hyped up Tera, and then D3, and now GW2. Yet in each case if you visited the Tera and D3 forums a couple of weeks after launch, it's a complete rinse and repeat exercise.

 

TL;DR: Gaming forums are free (or low cost) vent therapy for people who have hurt feelings, are fundamentally unhappy in one or more ways and need desperately to be heard. MMO play is just the enabler and excuse for them to find an outlet for all those negative feelings.

 

Happily, even though it does not look like it sometimes, these folks are a small minority. Most people don't get hurt and lash out when they don't enjoy and MMO, they just move on to something else that they do enjoy.

This right here explains everything, this is why some people have issues with this game

[Aerevan]

I can not speak for the unwashed hordes that scour this forum, but I became exited for this game somewhere around July 2009. Having followed this game for such a long time, checking out the weekly updates and even going to a games convention (which I never did before) I was extremely disappointed with this game. Perhaps I was being unreasonable, but the game just bored me after 4 weeks. I've only resubscribed (and canceled again) since 1.3, but this game has just proven to be a waste of time. I'm sure this post pretty easy for you BioDrone trolls to pick on and rip it to shreds (do all you like) - but BioWare failed to deliver 3 times on a row (ME3, SWTOR and DA2). A company that I would buy stuff from without even a shred of doubt has become a pirate first and perhaps buy later producer.

[CorellianWannabe]

The game had a lot of potential. It had ideas like Mass Effect's "infinite ending" idea. In this game, gear that evolves with you was a really cool idea, since some cool gear comes from lower levels (I personally prefer the troopers level 24 gear from questing than it's end game.)

 

They just failed to deliver what they told. As stated way earlier, that's what killed the game... and peoples super high expectations.

 

What everyone was expecting: World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King (and all it's "perfection") with a Star Wars skin on it.

 

What everyone got: Vanilla WoW with a Star Wars skin.

 

EA tried to market to the casual gamer of the new World of Warcraft. The gamer who doesn't wish to be bothered by the hard stuff that comes from a hardcore game. Bioware wanted to make a difficult game for the hardcore. KOTOR was difficult compared, and that was what I was expecting from this game. I expected Vanilla World of Warcraft.

 

EVERYONE who points to that game shouldn't point to the finished product, but where it stood at the same time this game did. I didn't play the game until roughly one year after it's release (World of Warcraft, that is.) It had bugs, it had issues, it had a dedicated fan base. That game was thoroughly difficult, and leveling after a certain point became a grind. Getting Naxx attuned was a grind. Getting MC attuned was a grind. Hell, the first and ONLY raid at release was Onyxia. That was only one boss, too. People were okay with that. Then the game evolved to it's **** state.

 

I recall somewhere that someone stated we shouldn't go back to where everything was a grind. That's where we should go back to. It'll weed out the ******* who aren't patient enough to earn their right into the end game. This game is hosed, but future games need to go back to grinding to get into the end game. Grinding instances for reputation, farming gold to buy mats (or spending hours trying to get the mats the correct way,) running instances to get your D1 set, and raid bosses that if a few goof up happens, the whole 40 man group gets screwed.

 

Just my rant on the whining idiots lounging around.

 

So go back to Everquest-it's still running. Feel free to spend weeks camping for a boss-lose xp each time you die. Enjoy forced grouping for every measly thing you want to do. Feel like a real man and display your epeen with pride!

 

Did you like getting Grand High Warlord in WoW? Playing for how many hours per day to keep that rank?

 

Funny enough most players don't seem to want that-otherwise WoW would have hit 10 million in those vanilla days.

[WickedDjinn]

I can not speak for the unwashed hordes that scour this forum, but I became exited for this game somewhere around July 2009. Having followed this game for such a long time, checking out the weekly updates and even going to a games convention (which I never did before) I was extremely disappointed with this game. Perhaps I was being unreasonable, but the game just bored me after 4 weeks. I've only resubscribed (and canceled again) since 1.3, but this game has just proven to be a waste of time. I'm sure this post pretty easy for you BioDrone trolls to pick on and rip it to shreds (do all you like) - but BioWare failed to deliver 3 times on a row (ME3, SWTOR and DA2). A company that I would buy stuff from without even a shred of doubt has become a pirate first and perhaps buy later producer.

 

Oh they're not pirates. They are Square Enix.

 

Too bad they used to be SquareSoft....

[Skorz]

What I don't understand is that people that seems to hate SWTOR still keep coming back to these forums to complain or they do that in other gaming forums.. why waste time on such thing? If the game is bad in your opinion then don't play it, play something else and move on. Back in the days if people hated some game, they simply moved on and never touched that game again. Why can't it be like that again? Do people get sexual pleasures out of it or why they are wasting their times?

 

Now I gotta admit that I don't really like the MMO aspect of SWTOR.. it is way too linear for me. Why am I still here? Because I love the story in SWTOR and that's the only reason I am still playing it. If I truly hated the game.. I would not be here wasting my time anymore.. I would be playing something else.

[CorellianWannabe]

I wouldn't recommend it to modern gamers with Attention Deficit Disorder either. Otherwise, there's nothing at all wrong with enjoying a good story.

 

Which story? Republic or Imperial?

 

The class missions are what, only 15% of the missions? Prepare for a lot of the same conversations telling you to kill 10 womp rats.

[Skorz]

Which story? Republic or Imperial?

 

The class missions are what, only 15% of the missions? Prepare for a lot of the same conversations telling you to kill 10 womp rats.

 

Yeah it is kinda of a let down that class stories weren't 90% of the quests but I just do flashpoints/warzones between the class quests.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Skorz

[Andryah]

What I don't understand is that people that seems to hate SWTOR still keep coming back to these forums to complain or they do that in other gaming forums.. why waste time on such thing? If the game is bad in your opinion then don't play it, play something else and move on. Back in the days if people hated some game, they simply moved on and never touched that game again. Why can't it be like that again? Do people get sexual pleasures out of it or why they are wasting their times?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=4957088&postcount=83

 

[Briq]

Why do people hate SWTOR, really?

 

gear-driven, tiny roomed, pvp

[Katsuragisama]

It was a very good MMORPG at launch by the standards of many. Not you, but many. Go back and read all the reviews by miscellaneous online and print magazines who wrote columns about it 8-10 months ago. And by the history of MMORPG launches spanning 20 years, it was considered a great MMORPG at launch, despite problems.

 

Despite problems, most of which have yet to be addressed. Or instead of optimizing the game and address the issue, was completely phased out of the game in hopes people would just forget it ever existed (e.g. Ilum). It's not the fans fault because they admitted there were bugs and horrible optimization in the game. It's the companies fault because they didnt address the issues. Instead of addressing the issue they give you Q&A's that amount to nothing.

 

It was considered at launch a success by sales numbers maybe, because of the hype. By February this was down to 1.7 mill. More people complained (rightfully so, not whined), and it fell on deaf ears. By May, another 400k quit. And now, here we are. 500k-1000k, but not 600k-1000k. So I think its safe to say they were below 600k, close to dipping below 500k, and someone hit the panic button. Success at launch != long term success. Especially not when bugs since launch still exist in game.

 

Many other MMOs, no matter how small or large the population from World of Warcraft, Everquest, Final Fantasy XI, Final Fantasy XIV (which is also getting a reboot by the end of this year), and many more, have not added F2P till level cap options. Many people are still willing to pay for these games. SW:TOR? Lol.

 

Blame the mind-set of modern gamers and the saturation of MMO games on the market. Hell... you can't even find a good turn-based RPG anymore because people want action action action. ToR, like many MMO's, harbored people that bought the game, rushed to the level cap, and then whined about lack of content. I've been doing each planet's story-line thoroughly for about 8 months and I think it's an incredible game. People are just impatient and want it all here and now.

 

I'll agree with your point on turn-based RPGs. <3 Legend of Dragoon. That said however... Yes, blame the gamers for wanting bugs, etc, etc to be fixed and done. Don't blame the devs at all, they had nothing to do with it.

 

So it's ok to charge full price for a half-baked game in hopes that it will eventually blossom into the game it's supposed to be? I don't get anything for my 'investment' other than an unfinished game and a meaningless title. It's not like I get shares in EA stock for each month of investing in their product (although I wouldn't want them at this point anyway).

 

As for the building momentum, this gent pretty much hit the nail on the head. Someone give this man a cigar.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[dandamanno]

There seem to be 2 camps of people on these forums:

 

1. At launch mmos should be fully featured with todays standards

2. At launch mmo's should have some of the current standard features and add additional features in later months/years.

 

When camp one meets camp two in the forums people get pretty whipped up about there own point of view which leads to a lot of anger and resentment.

 

Regardless of which camp you are in SWTOR has shown future developers that if you want to be successful with a subscription based model you need to be more camp 1 than camp 2. Most of the "I quit" threads cite some kind of missing feature (or 2 or 3 or 4) as the reason they quit.

[WickedDjinn]

There seem to be 2 camps of people on these forums:

 

1. At launch mmos should be fully featured with todays standards

2. At launch mmo's should have some of the current standard features and add additional features in later months/years.

 

When camp one meets camp two in the forums people get pretty whipped up about there own point of view which leads to a lot of anger and resentment.

 

Regardless of which camp you are in SWTOR has shown future developers that if you want to be successful with a subscription based model you need to be more camp 1 than camp 2. Most of the "I quit" threads cite some kind of missing feature (or 2 or 3 or 4) as the reason they quit.

 

It's a bit more than that.

 

TOR isn't competing with the MMO market. It's competing with WoW using WoWs formula.

 

The idea of the true game STARTING at end game, comes from WoW. The Themepark structure of progressive rewards, comes from WoW. Content expectations, come from WoW.

 

If an MMO follows the WoW model, a model that absolutely depends on its features, creature comforts and large amount of content, and you fail to deliver that.... What do you expect?

 

Of course this would have been avoided by doing something a bit more innovative.

[darthspaz]

There seem to be 2 camps of people on these forums:

 

1. At launch mmos should be fully featured with todays standards

2. At launch mmo's should have some of the current standard features and add additional features in later months/years.

 

When camp one meets camp two in the forums people get pretty whipped up about there own point of view which leads to a lot of anger and resentment.

 

Regardless of which camp you are in SWTOR has shown future developers that if you want to be successful with a subscription based model you need to be more camp 1 than camp 2. Most of the "I quit" threads cite some kind of missing feature (or 2 or 3 or 4) as the reason they quit.

 

Well said.

 

From what I understand this is what constitutes today's MMO standards:

Reliable graphics

Deep story

Well-paced combat

Mini-games

Group finder (instances/group quests and raids)

Easy access

Good art

Cut-scenes

 

I would also add to this list Customizable gear. After this feature was finalized in TOR WoW decided it needed a similar system (Transmogging). After playing a game where I can choose my look, and keep upgrading it, I don't know if I could do it any other way. Plus it bothered me to have to change lightsaber hilts every so often. That weapon was my life.

[Jett-Rinn]

Many are ex SWG vets bitter that TOR closed down their pice of crap game and now wish TOR would fail so they can take revenge in their minds.

 

That is highly believable when you hear people say that they have four and five accounts and will trash the game on the forums until the doors close.