Powertech Threat Drop

[bbare]

Tell me if this makes sense. Powertechs are one of the most viable end-game pve dps in the game. Their biggest strength is the ability for massive burst. So why the hell would bioware neglect to give them some sort of threat drop? I should not have to literally delay my dps at the start of the fight so the tank can build enough threat to hold me with a guard. Often times I don't even pop my offensive cd's and pull off the tank at the start of the fight and this is with a guard on me. This does happen more often when I'm with lower geared tanks, but I pulled off my guildie tank numerous times. I wondered if the tank wasn't pulling adequate threat numbers but his threat meter indicated he was pulling ~2k threat at the time of my pull. Powertechs are the only class in the game that actually have to slow their dps down at the start of the fight so the tanks can hold their threat. Even Marauders, the highest dps in the game don't really have aggro problems because of their camo.

 

My idea for a powertech threat drop is simple. Make TSO for the pyro reduce the threat from the next few abilities or so. That would give powertechs the necessary threat drop they need.

Edited August 1, 2012 by bbare

[LordExozone]

You mean you have to think about the fight rather than just mindlessly spamming your rotation? Oh no.

 

I didn't mean that as a jab at you, but holding back at the start of a fight so the tank can grab aggro is just a bit common sense. There is nothing wrong with having to do that, just adds some amount of skill/use of brain to the class (a class which is pretty easy to play even with having to pay attention to your threat).

 

That said, the threat drop ability you are suggesting itself would be nice to have, as without threat meters it can be hard to anticipate when to hold back and when to go all out. I've had situations where I'd pull the boss from the tank halfway through the fight which is something you just have no way of knowing is going to happen. An "oh ****" button would be nice to have in such a case.

 

But holding back at the start to allow the tank to build up aggro really is something universal to MMO's.

Edited August 1, 2012 by LordExozone

[CitizenFry]

As a tank main, I would much rather you unload everything at the start of the fight, so I can taunt one time and be guaranteed to be ahead of you on threat for the rest of the fight. It's the start of the fight, you should be at full HP and thus able to take a hit, right?

[bbare]

You mean you have to think about the fight rather than just mindlessly spamming your rotation? Oh no.

 

I didn't mean that as a jab at you, but holding back at the start of a fight so the tank can grab aggro is just a bit common sense. There is nothing wrong with having to do that, just adds some amount of skill/use of brain to the class (a class which is pretty easy to play even with having to pay attention to your threat).

 

That said, the threat drop ability you are suggesting itself would be nice to have, as without threat meters it can be hard to anticipate when to hold back and when to go all out. I've had situations where I'd pull the boss from the tank halfway through the fight which is something you just have no way of knowing is going to happen. An "oh ****" button would be nice to have in such a case.

 

But holding back at the start to allow the tank to build up aggro really is something universal to MMO's.

 

Holding back is not necessary for any class other than the powertech. Every other good dps class has a threat drop they can throw in to make it impossible to pull. Either they give powertechs a threat drop or they eliminate all other threat drops. It is asinine for Bioware to neglect a threat drop to a class with the most front-loaded dps in the game, especially without adequate threat meters. I shouldn't have to neglect to use my proc'd rail shots on bombers in HM EC at the chance I may pull and almost die.

[bbare]

As a tank main, I would much rather you unload everything at the start of the fight, so I can taunt one time and be guaranteed to be ahead of you on threat for the rest of the fight. It's the start of the fight, you should be at full HP and thus able to take a hit, right?

 

So what you are saying is that it is best to have the dps take shots to the face or whatever so the tank can adequately hold threat? I'm pretty sure it isn't the dps's job to take hits for the tank unless there is a certain mechanic involved (ie. DD)

[Rischardo]

Holding back is not necessary for any class other than the powertech. Every other good dps class has a threat drop they can throw in to make it impossible to pull. Either they give powertechs a threat drop or they eliminate all other threat drops. It is asinine for Bioware to neglect a threat drop to a class with the most front-loaded dps in the game, especially without adequate threat meters. I shouldn't have to neglect to use my proc'd rail shots on bombers in HM EC at the chance I may pull and almost die.

 

I agree with this. My other raiding toon is a Sniper and I don't really have to hold back because I know when I tend to pull aggro and thus know the best time to use my aggro drop. This allows me to aggressively open up without (too much) worry about pulling aggro.

 

Part of being a skilled DPS is knowing your class and rotation well enough that you know the optimal time to use your aggro drop. PT DPS is already one of the more simple specs to play; having an aggro drop would give us one more thing to keep track of and not only make it better for the raid, but a tad more fun to play.

[CitizenFry]

So what you are saying is that it is best to have the dps take shots to the face or whatever so the tank can adequately hold threat? I'm pretty sure it isn't the dps's job to take hits for the tank unless there is a certain mechanic involved (ie. DD)

 

I'm saying if it's inevitable that you're going to pull aggro off the tank, it's better to do it with gusto at the start of the fight, when everyone's fresh, rather than 30s in, when there's probably other stuff going on. Or worse, pulling slightly at the start of the fight, making me use my taunt, and THEN going all-out and re-pulling aggro.

Edited August 2, 2012 by CitizenFry

[vojinsa]

So what you are saying is that it is best to have the dps take shots to the face or whatever so the tank can adequately hold threat? I'm pretty sure it isn't the dps's job to take hits for the tank unless there is a certain mechanic involved (ie. DD)

 

everyone takes it in the face.

[midnitemonster]

None of the tank AC's have a threat drop. What fights in particular are you having a problem with? I main tank for HM EC and rarely have a problem with the PT's agro.

[Varye]

None of the tank AC's have a threat drop. What fights in particular are you having a problem with? I main tank for HM EC and rarely have a problem with the PT's agro.

 

Guardians have one on a 45 sec cd and Shadows have vanish, 3 min.

On the other hand, handling your threat is part of the dps spot in raid, and keeping aggro in this game is already way to easy.

[Leira_Kheren]

I main a PT, too. in my new guild I get two guaranteed grabs from the sorcs to dodge aggro problems. it is a terrible feeling... Nevertheless the raidleader call was, do dps, tank and grabs are for aggro reduce, so don't should worry.

 

Every ops-comp has its own rules, just talk about it with your tank and raidlead...

[BobaFaceroll]

An Easy Button would be nice, but that doesn't mean it's necessary. Get Guard from your tank for the aggro reduction, learn how to manage your threat early in a battle. It's not a big deal, you aren't losing an appreciable amount of damage by keeping it in your pants for 10 seconds. Let the tank gets in position and starts his rotation, after that go nuts. Between Guard, the tank's taunts, and ways to reduce your threat from team mates (Jugg, Sorc) you should have no problems.

 

Yes, I run my Pyro PT as DPS in our group's raids.

[oakamp]

i run both roles in HM EC,

trust me, dps is far more easier than being a tank,

if u have any problem about ur threat and do decent dmg,

then u have to learn much more and maybe cant even being a tank.

[Rischardo]

I don't think anyone is saying that Pyros aren't viable DPS because they don't have a threat drop. Spamming rapid shots for a few few global CDs, waiting to open up with TD + Explosive Fuel, having guard etc. are all obvious ways to avoid pulling aggro and I'm sure any decent Pyro does at least one of the above.

 

However, every single "argument" (ask for guard/intercede/sorc pull) could be made about any DPS class and yet they all still have an aggro drop. Other classes do better sustained DPS and still have an aggro drop (which makes less sense due to taunt stacking). The more "bursty" a class is, the stronger the argument that an aggro drop is "needed". Yet despite having arguably the best burst DPS in the game, Pyros are oddly enough the only DPS class without any means of dropping aggro.

 

An aggro drop would even take a little more skill than other more "traditional" rotation classes. On my sniper, I more or less know the best point in my opening rotation to drop aggro. Pyros, on the other hand, would have to watch not only for PPA procs, but also if rail shot had crit or not. Sometimes the best time to drop aggro would be after your first RS, sometimes the second...or maybe even further down the line. It all depends on PPA procs and the corresponding rail shot crits. It's not much more difficult, but effectively using an aggro drop would take a little more skill than a traditional rotation class.

 

For the record, I fully support this idea and have done full HM EC runs as dps (Pyro and Leth. Sniper) and tank (shieldtech). Again, Pyros are viable DPS w/o the aggro drop, but that doesn't change the equality or class mechanics arguments.

[bbare]

An Easy Button would be nice, but that doesn't mean it's necessary. Get Guard from your tank for the aggro reduction, learn how to manage your threat early in a battle. It's not a big deal, you aren't losing an appreciable amount of damage by keeping it in your pants for 10 seconds. Let the tank gets in position and starts his rotation, after that go nuts. Between Guard, the tank's taunts, and ways to reduce your threat from team mates (Jugg, Sorc) you should have no problems.

 

Yes, I run my Pyro PT as DPS in our group's raids.

 

I don't think I'd be able to sit back and wait 10 sec for some encounters. For example, the bombers on Nightmare EC could pose a problem for me because we would have to get them down very fast and I cannot afford to rapid shot for 3 GCD's so I don't get nuked in the face.

[thrakkemarn]

The argument that Pyros should have to wait to do DPS when every other class can go in hot is a silly one IMO. It makes us less viable as a DPS class, as you can stack a raid full of multiple sorcs, marauders etc who can match our DPS and yet have significantly less threat.

 

AFAIK Pyro is the ONLY class in the game with no way to drop threat. That alone should indicate something is wrong.

 

Now, if you are overgeared for content then yes, holding back DPS is a smart and viable thing to do. But if you are trying to do progression content (going into HM EC in Rakata gear or doing the new Nightmare EC) then holding back DPS is a good way to hit enrage.

 

Simply said, I agree 100% with Bbare and Pyros need a threat drop. I'd settle for a 1 minute cooldown 25% reduction on a single target ... which is a crappy threat drop compared to other classes but at least it'd be SOMETHING.

[wetslampigduex]

I'm saying if it's inevitable that you're going to pull aggro off the tank, it's better to do it with gusto at the start of the fight, when everyone's fresh, rather than 30s in, when there's probably other stuff going on. Or worse, pulling slightly at the start of the fight, making me use my taunt, and THEN going all-out and re-pulling aggro.

I 100% agree with you go balls to the wall pull the aggro and then ill taunt end of story what's he get hit with 1 attack oh well it should be known by the healer and the tank that it is going to happen..

 

and to the guy who says hes not pulling aggro as a pyro PT... plain and simple your doing it wrong

Edited August 8, 2012 by wetslampigduex

[bbare]

I 100% agree with you go balls to the wall pull the aggro and then ill taunt end of story what's he get hit with 1 attack oh well it should be known by the healer and the tank that it is going to happen..

 

and to the guy who says hes not pulling aggro as a pyro PT... plain and simple your doing it wrong

 

Its a pretty broken system if a powertech actually has to pull off the tank to ensure he doesn't pull later in the fight. Give us a damn threat drop so we can actually play the game as it was intended. They gave every other class a threat drop, but they were not bright enough to realize the class with the most front-loaded dps (PT's) probably needs it the most.

[-NovalGaraint-]

While we are dreaming of things from Bioware.........can we get an <30% Execute ability also? That'd be cool...just sayin.

[Truescopes]

While we are dreaming of things from Bioware.........can we get an <30% Execute ability also? That'd be cool...just sayin.

 

No, we're more than fine without one

[bbare]

While we are dreaming of things from Bioware.........can we get an <30% Execute ability also? That'd be cool...just sayin.

 

You do. It is a passive execute and it causes you to do about 9% more damage to targets under 30% health. This assumes your dots do about 30% of your total damage which is pretty consistent with my parses.

 

.3 (weight of dots) * .3 (dot buff with passive execute) = .09