belizar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 That's a catch-22. If the disco balls sell, then they will focus their efforts on making new flavors of disco balls instead of endgame content. If the disco balls don't sell, they'll go pay-to-win. Why do I say this? Look at their history since December. How many times have they said they're going to release more content, more often? How many times have they actually released content? Conclusion: They are not capable of releasing content. If they can't release content and disco balls don't sell, they have 2 options: close the game or pay-to-win. They'll do the latter, first. Either way, without content, the game isn't worth playing for me and probably most who aren't looking for SIMS: The Old Republic. if they cant make cash with subs and cash shop the only option is to shut down imo maybe reboot like ff14 other wise it just looks bad u cant give the game away to get new players to buy items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 So, this is my question on so called pay to win. As long as the paid "winning" doesn't affect pvp then who cares? Except for pvp this is a cooperative game. If you want to buy your raid gear i don't care. Now i don't have to worry about you rolling against me. Pvp though is the big exception. I don't mind pve pay to win, but pvp is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 So, this is my question on so called pay to win. As long as the paid "winning" doesn't affect pvp then who cares? Except for pvp this is a cooperative game. If you want to buy your raid gear i don't care. Now i don't have to worry about you rolling against me. Pvp though is the big exception. I don't mind pve pay to win, but pvp is no good. P2W will be in pvp lol more ppl would pay for pvp gear to faceroll ppl than to faceroll a boss ever hear of battlefield heroes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'm salivating at the prospect that I can simply buy Armor of Achilles Gear and crush all those players who spent EIGHT hours a day grinding for gear, learning the physics of gameplay, and crunching quadratic algorithms to optimize their rotations. And this is exactly why it wont happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 P2W will be in pvp lol more ppl would pay for pvp gear to faceroll ppl than to faceroll a boss ever hear of battlefield heroes ? Really? Kindly point me to where the developers said pay to win in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 P2W will be in pvp lol more ppl would pay for pvp gear to faceroll ppl than to faceroll a boss ever hear of battlefield heroes ? This is very true, the two main reasons for people to spend a lot of money in the cash shop are: 1. Out of frustration of being killed by someone who did buy gear 2. Showing off and/or peer pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Really? Kindly point me to where the developers said pay to win in pvp. point me to were they say it wont be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 point me to were they say it wont be Really? That's what you got? Lol. Maybe they will make the mistake of doing pay to win in pvp. But I'm not going to assume that based on nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onibubu Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 SWTOR going P2W is as likely as GW2 going pay to win, or League of Legends, etc... Besides, TOR haters unsubscribed to go play Diablo 3, now TOR haters complain because they think it will be P2W? Again, Double Standard is amazing in this forum, If Diablo 3 and GW2 have P2W and microtransactions respectively it's very good, if TOR has them is bad. Where is LOL Pay 2 Win? I think you never played it havent you? For GW2 as it lookes NOW its just fluff and convenience in the shop, but we will see how it developes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Really? That's what you got? Lol. Maybe they will make the mistake of doing pay to win in pvp. But I'm not going to assume that based on nothing. u already are assuming that they arent going p2w pvp lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) You might as well give EA your credit card info and wallet when cash shops are included... Aye ... Quote: Originally Posted by John Riccitiello of EA When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging. ^This! Edited August 13, 2012 by Urael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 u already are assuming that they arent going p2w pvp lol I'm glad you're here to tell me what's in my mind. What do i want to eat for lunch? That would save me the trouble of looking through the menus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizar Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'm glad you're here to tell me what's in my mind. What do i want to eat for lunch? That would save me the trouble of looking through the menus. anything BW says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 and a good portion of the remaining player base would DROP THEIR ACCOUNTS if you are allowed to buy what you just listed! If you think your $75.00 greater then say 1000+ accounts they would lose going p2w Well you think awfully high of yourself is all I can say! But having said all that I dont expect EA to figure this truth out and figure they will go P2W and lose a ton of their remaining subscribers by doing so. I think you miss the point it isnt $75 vs 1000s of accounts It is potentially millions of ftp players all paying $75 vs loss of 1000s of accounts Most likely the number of people playing in the ftp model will be larger (alot larger) then the sub base. If they can make items that all those people will gladly pay for, they will not hesitate for a second So now 75 million vs 1000s of subs what would you take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthemambient Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Bring on F2P, I look forward to it. But don't you dare go Pay2Win Bioware. Whatever microtransactions you bring to the game don't even think about character enhancements, even on the smallest scale. Keep the game balanced and don't give people with money to burn an unfair advantage... EVER! That is all. If it goes P2W, who cares! SWTOR will be F2P soon and it wouldn't be surprising if it went P2W sooner or later. It amazes me how many threaten to cancel or quit playing if things don't go their way. If you don't like it, stop playing! Simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudain Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) just 2 topics that would be cool to clarify 1) GW1 and GW2 are not F2P....you still have to buy the game, so that's USD 60+ for each account Arenanet gets, so stop saying "GW is F2P but all they sell is fluff" because they earn money with each disc sold. Once SWTOR goes F2P the only way they are making money is with subs and cash shop...a new player will just have to create an account, download the game for free and star playing. 2) For those saying "I work all day and can't play 8 hours a day, I should be able to buy my way to the top".... perhaps you are playing the wrong games, most RPGs are based on leveling, gear progression and time invested thus nobody is equal. You can't hope that playing 2 hours at nigth you will be top dog as fast as anyone who plays full day (hey, I work 9 hours a day, have a life and i'm nowhere near top gear...doesn't bother me, will get there eventually). If that really bothers you perhaps you shuold be playing something else...like a FPS or something Edited August 13, 2012 by Erudain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnight Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 BioWare says "buy cosmetic items, convenience items, and pay to expand your gameplay options" Forum somehow interprets this as 'pay to win' More at 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) BioWare says "buy cosmetic items, convenience items, and pay to expand your gameplay options" Forum somehow interprets this as 'pay to win' More at 11 If you put on a tin foil hat and squint, just so, the phrase: "...and pay to expand your gameplay options." is code for pay to win. No really. Put on a tin foil hat, spin around 3 times, click your heals and squint and you will clearly see it. FACT! Edited August 13, 2012 by Urael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Face it. P2W is inevitable. As are Pay-to-play microtransactions. They'll just save it until you get hooked. This. Edit: To JKnight, those of us who are saying these things have learned from experience. When a sub-based MMO goes F2P it also goes P2Win and/or pay to play effectively. If you don't want to listen to us, no problem. In six months you'll have learned the lessons we did with other games when we didn't listen. Edited August 13, 2012 by RobNightfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedDriver Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) F2P is fine, buying new cloths, speeders, pets, etc.. is great....but if it goes P2W myself and the 25+ people I know will stop playing that day. Perfect World International was an awesome game, but only way you can do PVP is if you spent $3,000 on gear to compete, and more if you want to win. That's stupid, and drove most people away from the game. Agreed. I played PWI for a little over 2 years. I spent way more money than is reasonable just so I could go on raids and compete in PvP. A buddy of mine wasn't paying attn... when he looked back, he spent over 15k in that game. It's absolute lunacy. LOTRO has a few "buffs" and stuff you can buy from their Turbine store, but in the grand scheme of things, you don't need them to be competitive. I don't foresee TOR doing even this. They understand the necessity of keeping their subscribers. If they go like PWI, I'm gone. If they go like LOTRO, I'll complain, but I'll probably stick around. Edited August 13, 2012 by MaskedDriver Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 This. Edit: To JKnight, those of us who are saying these things have learned from experience. When a sub-based MMO goes F2P it also goes P2Win and/or pay to play effectively. If you don't want to listen to us, no problem. In six months you'll have learned the lessons we did with other games when we didn't listen. See you say this without siting examples. I am sure they will be LoTR, DCO, STO, etc. There are those that feel like you and those that feel the complete oposite siting the same MMORPGS. So basically, it's still in the realm of OPINION. There is not enough real data to state one way or the other that a MMORPG will IN FACT go P2Win. It may happen but, there is no certainty. To say so is to be a conspiracy theorist at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnight Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 To JKnight, those of us who are saying these things have learned from experience. When a sub-based MMO goes F2P it also goes P2Win and/or pay to play effectively. If you don't want to listen to us, no problem. In six months you'll have learned the lessons we did with other games when we didn't listen. If it is in the Pazaak Cards then so be it, but everything I have seen so far has been an indication they are trying to avoid P2W. If revenues continue to slide and they need to incorporate it so be it. As for P2P, not fussed, I'm already paying to play. Whether it's a monthly sub or other equivalent (pay for expansions) I'd expect this from an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudain Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) BioWare says "buy cosmetic items, convenience items, and pay to expand your gameplay options" Forum somehow interprets this as 'pay to win' More at 11 Define convenience item. Aion defined an HP/MP elixir way better than those in-game and on a different cd as a convenience item... So you now have: Guy that doesn't use the cash shop: Best elixir in game heals 3500 hp/mp....1min cd. Guy using the cash shop: Cash shop elixir heals 5000 hp/mp...5min cd + 3500 hp/mp heal from in game elixir on diff cd = 8500 hp/mp healed.... (Aion has open world pvp, so you can't put a label saying "not usable in...") Edited August 13, 2012 by Erudain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Agreed. I played PWI for a little over 2 years. I spent way more money than is reasonable just so I could go on raids and compete in PvP. A buddy of mine wasn't paying attn... when he looked back, he spent over 15k in that game. It's absolute lunacy. LOTRO has a few "buffs" and stuff you can buy from their Turbine store, but in the grand scheme of things, you don't need them to be competitive. I don't foresee TOR doing even this. They understand the necessity of keeping their subscribers. If they go like PWI, I'm gone. If they go like LOTRO, I'll complain, but I'll probably stick around. Clearly, they do not. If they did, they would have invested the last X months of our subscription fees into content that would make the game worth subscribing to, rather than building infrastructure for a cash shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnight Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Define convenience item. Aion defined an HP/MP elixir way better than those in-game and on a different cd as a convenience item... True, even convenience items can wreck balance I suppose. Examples they gave were on things like bag and bank space reductions and quick travel options though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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