Skill bloat..

[Granyala]

Some of us actually enjoy large, complex talent trees with lots of build options and synergy and nuances.

 

Talents are a load of crap. Yeah there was a time where I found a +1% on healing a cool talent... until WoW taught me that it's absolutely boring.

 

I want talents you actually FEEL. They don't need to be active abilities eg: spell pushback while healing, you FEEL that talent wich makes it cool.

 

As far as the abilities go: I currently don't have a problem with the number of skills (Lv 20 Sage)

[Gaidax]

I agree... I hit level 26 recently and much to my horror I have like 3 slots left to bind before I go insane...

 

I use: 1234qexcr, wheel up, wheel down and their respective alt+ versions... and I'd say that's about 4 binds more than should be.

[Yfelsung]

Talents are a load of crap. Yeah there was a time where I found a +1% on healing a cool talent... until WoW taught me that it's absolutely boring.

 

I want talents you actually FEEL. They don't need to be active abilities eg: spell pushback while healing, you FEEL that talent wich makes it cool.

 

As far as the abilities go: I currently don't have a problem with the number of skills (Lv 20 Sage)

 

I agree talents should be cool, but I still want 100+ of them to choose from.

 

Pathfinder's feat system is a good example. There are hundreds of feats in Pathfinder, but each is quite noticeable in how it changes your character.

 

If I had my way there would be no classes and just like 5000 talents to choose from.

[Aethusa]

Yes you can have necessary skills only on quickslots as a solution. But if two skills are just doing damage and one of them is more powerful. What's the point ? Why the hell did i learn that :S

 

This is also a problem of education system in whole World i think in real life

Edited December 19, 2011 by Aethusa

[Shandrii]

either you have horrible position of keys or your doubling up on keys because we don't have that many, i am level 21 and i don't have half of my usual keys filled yet

[Invitcted]

Telling the OP how to play is nonsense. If he wants to use the skills provided and earned in the game so be it. I agree completely about the lack of space in the UI. There needs to be more UI customization and most importantly a 3rd bar at the bottom.

Except the OP is advocating removal of skills that 'overlap' to free up his UI not make space on his UI. People are merely pointing out that different specs use different abilities in the same class hence his perceived 'bloat'

 

Really people can we all get off the hipster 'elitists are bringing me down by telling me how to play my class well MAAAN' wagon it's getting played out.

[DarthShredKing]

I too feel there are too many skills. I play a Jedi Sentinel and I have fully key-bound the bottom two bars. I am running out of key binds for useful abilities. I will say that a few abilities are supposed to replace others (slash and blade rush for instance). It just feels like at least the class I am playing has far too many abilities and too many abilities that are on a short 15 sec CD.

[Uhuru]

more choice is good

you also don't need all the skills you get in your bars

 

Comletely agree.

 

I would add that just because you don't see a use for a particular skill doesn't mean someone else won't. Don't be an advocate for taking choice away from other players.

 

When WoW streamlined they ruined the game imo. The subscrip[tion levels seem to prove this. At WoW's highest bloat point they had the most subscriptions. At its most streamlined, they currently have the least. They are streamlining even more for the next expansion which is one of the reasons many people are still leaving. I realise that there are many other factors but dumbing down the game is a big one.

 

A lot of people like complexity and choices to make, even if the choices are similar. Its much better than a lack of choice.

 

I also hope the talent tree gets more complex, but I am probably in the minority there

 

IMHO

Edited December 19, 2011 by Uhuru

[Aerius]

There are too many skills. While yes, you COULD not use all of them, but every skill will have situational uses. They need to make the skill bars bigger or allow mods so you can put them on the sides, etc.

[Kysenia]

Problem will be reduced if they simply allow us to move the ui to locations of our choosing. Having sidebars is not functional if they are far away to access. Yes I am still a point and click kind of guy at times lol:). Get them to center and you are good to go:)!

[Naroga]

Anybody saying that the amount of skills are fine has yet to play a Jedi Sentinel (or Sith Marauder).

 

I'm almost level 20 and I already have my two bottom bars fully keybound. Looking at the skills I have yet to learn, I'll easily need another 8 keys bound to maximize my DPS and utility.

[VicSkimmr]

They do have an insane amount of skills, but that's half the fun of the class to me. I've been playing a sorcerer and feel like I don't have enough skills to use

[Yfelsung]

A little tip for those with 5 button mice:

 

MB1+MB2 already moves forward automatically.

Bind "Move Backward" to MMB

Bind Left and Right Strafe to MB4 and MB5

 

Now you have:

123456

QWERT

ASDFG

ZXCVB

 

Shift+

123456

QWERT

ASDFG

ZXCVB

 

CTRL+

123456

QWERT

ASDFG

ZXCVB

 

and

 

Alt+123456

QWERT

ASDFG

ZXCVB

 

That's 21x4=84 Keybinds without having to move your hand

 

Try it, it blows WASD movement out of the water.

[kitharen]

I could live with my Smuggler having six skills:

- Shoot first

- Fire at multiple targets

- Apply DoT with a blaster

- Thermal Grenade

- Stun Grenade

- Flash Grenade

 

Never understand how having a ton of abilities is more fun than optimizing the use of just a handful of them.

[Uhuru]

Anybody saying that the amount of skills are fine has yet to play a Jedi Sentinel (or Sith Marauder).

 

I'm almost level 20 and I already have my two bottom bars fully keybound. Looking at the skills I have yet to learn, I'll easily need another 8 keys bound to maximize my DPS and utility.

 

I hate to pick on you but that is completely false. My main is a Jedi maurader. I love all my skills. I get to experiment and chose the ones that works best for me. Less choice minimizes utility. Don't be afraid of figuring things out for yourself. You can't lose the game or break anything

 

Experimentation makes games more fun, not less. Less abilities means that people will have to play the game exactly the same. That would just suck the fun right out of this game for many.

 

I can definately see your point about adding more skill bars. I have a feeling that will get patched in with the UI overhaul they are planning.

[JMESUN]

to many skills? really, go play DC online

[Uhuru]

I could live with my Smuggler having six skills:

- Shoot first

- Fire at multiple targets

- Apply DoT with a blaster

- Thermal Grenade

- Stun Grenade

- Flash Grenade

 

Never understand how having a ton of abilities is more fun than optimizing the use of just a handful of them.

 

Because everybody doesn't want to play the same way as you. Taking choice away from others just because you don't want choice is extremely short sighted imo.

 

If your above list for the smugglar works fine for you then by all means use just those skills. Nobody is stopping you.

 

If you get your way and gut the game for others then you are dictating what skills they get to use.

 

I don't want to live in THAT Star Wars universe.

[Uhuru]

to many skills? really, go play DC online

 

Yeah, sadly that is the truth. An MMO for consoles seems like a good idea until you realsise how limited the controlers are.

[Sicknss]

It's not even just a lack of space in the UI, it's coming up with keybinds to use... and yes, I have a naga. I'm heavy pve and pvp and melee to boot, I can't be mouse clicking all these abilities that that are regularly required.

 

It's also not about limiting choice, it's about limiting bloat. It's just unnecessary and if you're answer is simply don't use all the abilities as they aren't needed then why are they there? It's just not necessary.

 

We're not all keyboard turning, mouse-clicking sorcerers here.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Sicknss

[Elear]

I could live with my Smuggler having six skills:

- Shoot first

- Fire at multiple targets

- Apply DoT with a blaster

- Thermal Grenade

- Stun Grenade

- Flash Grenade

 

Never understand how having a ton of abilities is more fun than optimizing the use of just a handful of them.

 

 

I'm sure you would just love to have rotation consisting purely of 3-1-1-1-1-repeat(you can use it, don't expect to kill anything quickly, but you can use it), but most people prefer when you actualy have to know what you're doing.

 

 

 

OP, if you're saying "there are more skills that I can comprehend and I don't even use half of them", then just don't use them. And if you're saying "this is too hard for me, make it easier", then I'll point you toward exit - being good in game is supposed to take some skill.

[Uhuru]

We're not all keyboard turning, mouse-clicking sorcerers here.

 

+ 1

 

That gave me a good laugh

 

I understand your point but I still don't want to see things removed from the game. I PvP a lot and in WoW I had much success taking skills off my bars and adapting my play. The truly great PvPers still kicked my butt but they would do that no matter what lol.

 

The point I am trying to make is that by experimenting with all the tools given to me I was able to make a character that worked well for me. One that I was very successfull playing. Losing that choice in the name of "streamlining" the game to make it less complex would make me a sad panda.

[Yakito]

Yest.

 

Ok, Yes and No.

 

We have a bit too many abilities BUT it mostly looks that way because of the really crappy UI.

I have no space to put the Relics or some medpacks in. Few more abilities and i'll really really struggle. And I am level 32 now.

 

The UI needs changing and fast.

[kitharen]

I'm sure you would just love to have rotation consisting purely of 3-1-1-1-1-repeat(you can use it, don't expect to kill anything quickly, but you can use it), but most people prefer when you actualy have to know what you're doing.

 

Each and every MMO I've played it came down to using the optimal rotation over and over again. If the game has been more complex there has been two or three different rotations, based on the circumstances, but rotations none the less. Toss in the occasionally reactive ability (e.g. dispell) and that's it.

[Yfelsung]

Each and every MMO I've played it came down to using the optimal rotation over and over again. If the game has been more complex there has been two or three different rotations, based on the circumstances, but rotations none the less. Toss in the occasionally reactive ability (e.g. dispell) and that's it.

 

Yes, every game has rotations.

 

But complex rotations with lots of abilities are more interesting and fun than simple rotations with few abilities.

 

Half the fun of tanking is trying not to trip over your own fingers while you maintain your rotation while trying to hit reactive abilities.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Yfelsung

[Sharra]

I find there are a ton of abilities as well, but i find there is several that are mostly for pvp. What i find i really need is two separate sets of ability bars, although i haven't figured out how to do that yet. macro's would also help solve this.