23/1/17 Put me in my place... again.

[Xinika]

After much denial and avoiding of the spec, came to the realization that it's hands down the best spec for our class. Period. Let me be completely clear with you. The damage output on 23/1/17 surpasses Balance and Infiltration by... ALOT. My guess is that the changes with 1.3 has really meshed well with the hybrid spec and the consistent burst damage paired with the proper itemization is near perfect. The spec really has it all. Utility, damage, survivability and CC. Again with damage... I'm averaging around 400-800k. 400s being my lows.

 

I had this happen earlier today:

 

Project: 4287

FiB: 3566

Combat Tech Proc: 1981

 

This all happened around 1.5-2 globals. This is also quite consistent and the filler is high. The spec is without a doubt our best but that's just sad. It outperforms all three trees in pretty much every aspect. I don't like that hybrid specs are outperforming pures. Nerfing is not the key because the spec isn't overpowered, it's where we should be.

 

I've ran Balance a ton since ranked and it's been very helpful to my team. KC (full) also has it's place, but in all seriousness, neither of these two specs come even near what this hybrid can truly pull off.

 

Thoughts on 23/1/17, oi?

Edited July 29, 2012 by Xinika

[Ritsugamesh]

Agreed on every point, which is a shame as I too don't want this to be the case, being a balance/inf player at heart.

 

I'm not sure whether I think it's in the right place on the grander scale, personally... I'd put it just below Sents and Pyros but above everything else right now, perhaps alongside hybrid Guardian (force sweep is just lol ***), but the important fact is that a hybrid spec is invalidating our entire skill tree right now and I hope Bioware address it soon.

 

If I'm not mistaken, didn't they lead a crusade to remove hybrid spec a ways back? I find it interesting how that's suddenly come to nothing and everyone runs around in them.

 

Honestly though, short of re-doing Inf's tree (I don't think a straight burst increase would be wise or actually fix class issues) I don't think there's much to be done. Balance is in a good place - 23/1/17 is just leaps and bounds ahead, which makes me wonder whether balance is UP or 23/1/17 OP, I just can't decide.

[UnknownDeceased]

I still prefer 27/1/13 over 23/1/17.

 

The single-target burst this spec is capable of is just awesome: 8-10K Force Lightning, 4K Deathfield (placed to hit only one target), followed by a 4,5K Shock+ Shock proc. Perfect Use of all 3 Recklessness Charges.

 

IMO critdamage increase for trash/double strike is not worth taking.

According to my combatparses i do about 10-15% of my overall damage with trash. So increasing Trash by an average of 10-15% (depending on your critchance) is not worth taking.

Edited July 29, 2012 by UnknownDeceased

[Order-Sixty-Six]

I still prefer 27/1/13 over 23/1/17.

 

The single-target burst this spec is capable of is just awesome: 8-10K Force Lightning, 4K Deathfield (placed to hit only one target), followed by a 4,5K Shock+ Shock proc. Perfect Use of all 3 Recklessness Charges.

 

IMO critdamage increase for trash/double strike is not worth taking.

According to my combatparses i do about 10-15% of my overall damage with trash. So increasing Trash by an average of 10-15% (depending on your critchance) is not worth taking.

 

Is this the harnessed shadows + force in balance build someone messaged me a few weeks ago?

 

I've been considering it, I just find an aoe like deathfield/fib to be much more tedious than slow time/wither.

 

It looks good with

Spinning kick/spike out of steath

30% force regen

Accelerated Projects with aditional debris

Force in Balance

175% damage telekinetic throws

Healing from combat technique, harnessed shadows, and force in balance.

A+ survivability.

 

 

My issue is that I'm not a mouse player. The only time I ever use my mouse is clicking stuff like vendors or the huttball, and quickly passing the huttball (I usually force cloak to reset). So I don't think this build can match the playstyle of a keyboard warrior. I can still get 400-500k dps with 31/2/8 in a decent match.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Order-Sixty-Six

[stephenalandavie]

What does this 27/1/13 look like?

[UnknownDeceased]

What does this 27/1/13 look like?

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMozrskdZoZf0cRM.2

 

-death field every 15 secs (btw: very helpful to prevent tapping from 34m away (30+8/2))

-use shock as often as possible dont wait for energize procs (it does more damage/force then trash anyway)

->3x HD force lighting

 

and Bind Maul to a key on your mouse that helps alot

Edited July 29, 2012 by UnknownDeceased

[stephenalandavie]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMozrskdZoZf0cRM.2

 

-death field every 15 secs (btw: very helpful to prevent tapping from 34m away (30+8/2))

-use shock as often as possible dont wait for energize procs (it does more damage/force then trash anyway)

->3x HD force lighting

 

and Bind Maul to a key on your mouse that helps alot

 

Is maul the attack from behind? i.e shadow strike

[Skolops]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMozrskdZoZf0cRM.2

 

-death field every 15 secs (btw: very helpful to prevent tapping from 34m away (30+8/2))

-use shock as often as possible dont wait for energize procs (it does more damage/force then trash anyway)

->3x HD force lighting

 

and Bind Maul to a key on your mouse that helps alot

 

I just can't see any reason to take a hybrid without taking the instalift/whirlwind. In sacrificing Wither, you're sacrificing a very large utility item - one which I honestly think is too good to give up in favor of anything any hybrid can offer. However, I can at least understand someone doing so to get the instalift/wind. WIthout that, I don't think its remotely worth it.

[Pizzel]

Did you get around to trying the 24/17 Inf balance build Xinika? I know it's not as good as the KC hybrid all around. Heck I just stay in KC hybrid unless my shadow heavy guild needs me in DPS. Then I use that other spec for healer killing. It does fill a role and doesnt have baton twirling to draw attention.

 

But yea.... We are in such a weird spot. All of our specs are gimmiky. Have to have our utility or we feel worthless. Also our dps trees are so squishy it's insane. I am well known on my server so when I pop out of stealth I have very short windows to operate before getting focused. Very frustrating.

 

Atleast we can win all those common 1v1's though in Rateds.... ROFL

[Bilirubin]

After much denial and avoiding of the spec, came to the realization that it's hands down the best spec for our class. Period. Let me be completely clear with you. The damage output on 23/1/17 surpasses Balance and Infiltration by... ALOT. My guess is that the changes with 1.3 has really meshed well with the hybrid spec and the consistent burst damage paired with the proper itemization is near perfect. The spec really has it all. Utility, damage, survivability and CC. Again with damage... I'm averaging around 400-800k. 400s being my lows.

 

I had this happen earlier today:

 

Project: 4287

FiB: 3566

Combat Tech Proc: 1981

 

This all happened around 1.5-2 globals. This is also quite consistent and the filler is high. The spec is without a doubt our best but that's just sad. It outperforms all three trees in pretty much every aspect. I don't like that hybrid specs are outperforming pures. Nerfing is not the key because the spec isn't overpowered, it's where we should be.

 

I've ran Balance a ton since ranked and it's been very helpful to my team. KC (full) also has it's place, but in all seriousness, neither of these two specs come even near what this hybrid can truly pull off.

 

Thoughts on 23/1/17, oi?

 

Guild mate of mine put me onto this spec. I had leveled and still tank PvE as 31/x/x and was using either it or Balance in PvP (tried Balance in PvE too but DPS doesn't yet sit well with me as a play style). It is literally the best of all worlds. I sometimes fuss over the loss of slow time in voidstar or huttball but then drop a FiB from range and forget about that. I still respec full kinetic for OPs but this spec has it all for me.

 

How are you kitting out your stats exactly? Pure DPS stats?

[VigDiath]

What gear are you using for this build in pvp? Stalker or Survivor? Or a mix of both? How about in Pve? I tried a dps build and didn't like it too much but never a hybrid build yet.

[Degato-Nafix]

I'm currently level 35 and have been pvping for 75% of my xp. This hybrid spec looks great but I just can't figure out at what point I will have the points to make it feel effective? Currently running around full INF spec has been the best spec and makes me feel like I'm affecting games the most.

 

This could also be a solo queue for ranked discussion? Obviously I'm always in solo queue.

 

So if you were leveling up again, how would you build into that hybrid spec?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Nafix

[stephenalandavie]

I'm currently level 35 and have been pvping for 75% of my xp. This hybrid spec looks great but I just can't figure out at what point I will have the points to make it feel effective? Currently running around full INF spec has been the best spec and makes me feel like I'm affecting games the most.

 

This could also be a solo queue for ranked discussion? Obviously I'm always in solo queue.

 

So if you were leveling up again, how would you build into that hybrid spec?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Nafix

 

You could easily make it effective now mate although what i did was put the 23 points into it then built the rest up from there

[Bilirubin]

How are you kitting out your stats exactly? Pure DPS stats?

 

NM, found your armoury link

[Berdilio]

I actually have been running full balance with 7 points in kc for the last uh couple of days after running 23/1/17 for months and I agree with the OP.

 

You have more consistent dps with full balance and great kiting utility plus sever force has no care for resolve I love that...

 

But you lose so much survivability you lose the monster projects all that and we are not even talking yet about the utility of breaking snares, out of stealth spinning kick, and my fav force pull..

 

Only issue I have is the creds I waste on having to respec to pve builds and this

 

build....though for 5 mans 23/1/17 can pull off tanking fairly well but not so great in ops. Though I pvp 90% of my play time any way.

 

Only bad thing I have to say about this build, its the reason I have been trying new builds, is that now every one and their mom is playing it! Though it makes sense it has it all and vs. all the snipers and marauders playing rateds it works very well in this current state of the game.

[Degato-Nafix]

"You could easily make it effective now mate although what i did was put the 23 points into it then built the rest up from there"

 

So fill out KC and then work my way up the Balance tree slowly?

 

What's my priority list for burst? Sustained?

 

I guess I'm not really even sure what the play style is supposed to be? Protector? Harrass?

 

Thanks for the help!

 

Nafix

Edited July 30, 2012 by Degato-Nafix

[Kajuana]

"You could easily make it effective now mate although what i did was put the 23 points into it then built the rest up from there"

 

I think leveling up in infiltration is more fun. But that's just me.

 

- survivability of KC: amazing (MoM roots/snares, resist force/tech for 4s then force cloak and get away for heals)

- force pull of KC: fun & important (force pull flag cappers, enemy healers into your group of sentinels...)

- spin kick of KC: 1v1 winners with stun / force cloak

- FiB of Balance: makes flag cappers flip table

- force life of Balance: 2v2 winners (stealth cc -> *break* -> force lift)

- shadow strike of Shadow: ice on cake

 

BUT! I am having trouble killing geared sages with 20-22K hp. Their bubbles take more than a project to break...

Edited July 30, 2012 by Kajuana

[Boarg]

After much denial and avoiding of the spec, came to the realization that it's hands down the best spec for our class. Period. Let me be completely clear with you. The damage output on 23/1/17 surpasses Balance and Infiltration by... ALOT. My guess is that the changes with 1.3 has really meshed well with the hybrid spec and the consistent burst damage paired with the proper itemization is near perfect. The spec really has it all. Utility, damage, survivability and CC. Again with damage... I'm averaging around 400-800k. 400s being my lows.

 

I had this happen earlier today:

 

Project: 4287

FiB: 3566

Combat Tech Proc: 1981

 

This all happened around 1.5-2 globals. This is also quite consistent and the filler is high. The spec is without a doubt our best but that's just sad. It outperforms all three trees in pretty much every aspect. I don't like that hybrid specs are outperforming pures. Nerfing is not the key because the spec isn't overpowered, it's where we should be.

 

I've ran Balance a ton since ranked and it's been very helpful to my team. KC (full) also has it's place, but in all seriousness, neither of these two specs come even near what this hybrid can truly pull off.

 

Thoughts on 23/1/17, oi?

 

I agree that 23/1/17 is still the best all around... I want it not to be, but it just is and plays smoothly. I'm running it right now, even.

 

Although, I have to say that thinking it even keeps up with Balance or Infiltration on damage must be a perception thing or scoreboard-itis.

 

That combat tech proc clearly is during Battle Readiness....for which I've had Shadow Tech procs hit right at 3k with it increasing the damage 100%. And I imagine that Project was with PA proc + Force Potency. So, that same sequence is substantially more impressive in Infiltration with Project hitting harder (2x CS buff), Breach instead of FiB hitting for about 1k+ more and the tech proc hitting for 1k more.

 

And Balance still has a ton more sustained damage if you can maintain the uptime. (Pretty big "if" in WZ's...)

 

The biggest thing is...okay, so maybe you do ~15-20% more damage in the other specs, but the survivability is WAY more than 15-20% better with Kinetic hybrid - and the other team knows it so they usually don't try to kill you over a healer or real dps. They don't even CC or taunt you as much. That means you're alive and in the middle of everything while less encumbered, constantly attacking and getting aoe out of FiB and FB. If you focus on attacking, the accumulated numbers at the end of a match can be pretty crazy.

 

I just wish this spec had maintainable 50% snare. They ought to make 2/2 Subduing Techniques baseline for all Shadows. It's not like it's a free snare - it costs a gcd and force.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Boarg

[Ciridemarr]

... I'm averaging around 400-800k. 400s being my lows.

 

I had this happen earlier today:

 

Project: 4287

FiB: 3566

Combat Tech Proc: 1981

 

This all happened around 1.5-2 globals. This is also quite consistent and the filler is high. The spec is without a doubt our best but that's just sad. It outperforms all three trees in pretty much every aspect. I don't like that hybrid specs are outperforming pures. Nerfing is not the key because the spec isn't overpowered, it's where we should be.

 

I would love to learn your rotation and stats (willpower/surge/crit/power) cause eventho I'm at 1241 Experience and full Battlemaster Stalker set with 4 pieces of War Hero gear (fully augmented) and using 23/1/17, I'm nowhere near your numbers. I'm certainly doing something wrong - I usualy getting 150-200k in WZs. Any tips would be helpful.

[Xinika]

I would love to learn your rotation and stats (willpower/surge/crit/power) cause eventho I'm at 1241 Experience and full Battlemaster Stalker set with 4 pieces of War Hero gear (fully augmented) and using 23/1/17, I'm nowhere near your numbers. I'm certainly doing something wrong - I usualy getting 150-200k in WZs. Any tips would be helpful.

I just released a new video with heavy emphasis on how to play 23/1/17

 

23/1/17

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#79e162fe-6-2e830f

2:27 - 4:35

7:57 - 9:16

 

As for gearing, please see the armoury link in my signature.

[Bilirubin]

I just released a new video with heavy emphasis on how to play 23/1/17

 

23/1/17

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#79e162fe-6-2e830f

2:27 - 4:35

7:57 - 9:16

 

As for gearing, please see the armoury link in my signature.

Good stuff! Really love the LOS work in the final Alderaan clip. Give me a lot to think about in my own play.

 

In one of the VS I saw you switching targets a bit--between two sorcs IIRC--one was really low and I thought you might finish them off but you hopped targets. What are your target priority criteria? Also do you use target center or next enemy?

[stephenalandavie]

I just released a new video with heavy emphasis on how to play 23/1/17

 

23/1/17

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#79e162fe-6-2e830f

2:27 - 4:35

7:57 - 9:16

 

As for gearing, please see the armoury link in my signature.

 

 

I use the 23/1/17 all the time now and my rotation looks something like this

 

 

1) FIB

 

2) Project

 

3) double strike

 

4) if particle accel Procs then Project again

 

5) and Shadow Strike if Infiltration tactics procs.

 

 

Is this similar to your rotation?

[jphuynh]

is Double strike your filler SHIN? i find myself not double striking enough bc i feel i rather conserve my force for big hitting abilities like FiB and Project. do you recommend i double strike more?

[Bilirubin]

Double strike isn't filler. Its awesome.

[Boarg]

I use the 23/1/17 all the time now and my rotation looks something like this

 

 

1) FIB

 

2) Project

 

3) double strike

 

4) if particle accel Procs then Project again

 

5) and Shadow Strike if Infiltration tactics procs.

 

 

Is this similar to your rotation?

 

If you're trying to burst someone, you can use Project anytime it's available like that and what you have there is good. Obviously add Spinning Strike when their health gets low enough.

 

If you're trying to produce maximum sustained damage, then you would only use Project with PA procs.