KOTOR 1 vs KOTOR 2

[TKMaster]

Kreia was essentially Chris Avellone giving a big middle finger to George Lucas' binary, rather childish, "Good is good, and evil is evil," implementation of the universe. KotOR II is basically one big deconstruction of every Star Wars trope out there, which is why it's so good.

 

Opinions and a-holes tbqh, i gave my opinion, didnt need to be corrected for it.

 

And if you think evil isnt black and white talk to my great grandfather about the nazi's and what he saw with his eyes. Yes, there is complete unapologetic evil in the universe. This new age BS about everything is subjective is wrong.

Edited July 30, 2012 by TKMaster

[GarfieldJL]

Kreia was essentially Chris Avellone giving a big middle finger to George Lucas' binary, rather childish, "Good is good, and evil is evil," implementation of the universe. KotOR II is basically one big deconstruction of every Star Wars trope out there, which is why it's so good.

 

No, Kreia was actually quite evil, she just had some priorities.

 

1. Get revenge on those that betrayed her.

2. She was obsessed with the Exile, whom was beautiful to her, a gaping wound in the Force.

3. Take down the surviving council members.

 

There were also some things that she considered to be going way too far, primarily wiping out all life in the galaxy, she thought that kind of victory was hollow and completely idiocy. She thought one of the Sith Lords running around at the time needed to be stopped before he turned the galaxy into a lifeless void...

 

If you recall, Kreia often pushed the Exile towards the darkside, unless there was something to benefit to the Exile to not do something evil. She was very manipulative and preferred manipulation instead of a more direct approach.

[Cavell]

No, Kreia was actually quite evil, she just had some priorities.

 

1. Get revenge on those that betrayed her.

2. She was obsessed with the Exile, whom was beautiful to her, a gaping wound in the Force.

3. Take down the surviving council members.

 

There were also some things that she considered to be going way too far, primarily wiping out all life in the galaxy, she thought that kind of victory was hollow and completely idiocy. She thought one of the Sith Lords running around at the time needed to be stopped before he turned the galaxy into a lifeless void...

 

If you recall, Kreia often pushed the Exile towards the darkside, unless there was something to benefit to the Exile to not do something evil. She was very manipulative and preferred manipulation instead of a more direct approach.

You've never played through as a darksider, have you?

[Rayla_Felana]

You've never played through as a darksider, have you?

 

She retains the same outlook regardless.

[Cavell]

She retains the same outlook regardless.

 

She actually counsels against DS for DS' sake actions, same as she does with LS.

 

Kreia wasn't just out to knock off Jedi. She was out to knock off Jedi, Sith...everybody who uses the Force. And the Force itself. She saw the Force as, inherently, an element of chaos. She, like some of the opinions expressed by some NPCs in TOR, believed that the galaxy would have a lot fewer problems - or at least multi-million death counts - without either Jedi or Sith around to hack at each other every few centuries.

 

Now, contrast that with Lucas, who says the Force is the bestest thing ever bestiest bestest bestest, and the Jedi are the creamiest of the creamy cream crop (despite showing remarkable ineptitude at their stated jobs in his canon), and you can hopefully see why I view KotOR II as a Star Wars deconstruction. Hell, I'll dig up the old interview where Avellone said they wanted to take Star Wars in a direction it hadn't been before if I have to.

[OldVengeance]

She actually counsels against DS for DS' sake actions, same as she does with LS.

 

Kreia wasn't just out to knock off Jedi. She was out to knock off Jedi, Sith...everybody who uses the Force. And the Force itself. She saw the Force as, inherently, an element of chaos. She, like some of the opinions expressed by some NPCs in TOR, believed that the galaxy would have a lot fewer problems - or at least multi-million death counts - without either Jedi or Sith around to hack at each other every few centuries.

 

Now, contrast that with Lucas, who says the Force is the bestest thing ever bestiest bestest bestest, and the Jedi are the creamiest of the creamy cream crop (despite showing remarkable ineptitude at their stated jobs in his canon), and you can hopefully see why I view KotOR II as a Star Wars deconstruction. Hell, I'll dig up the old interview where Avellone said they wanted to take Star Wars in a direction it hadn't been before if I have to.

 

I also think this. And it is for exactly that reason that I think Avellone was the wrong person to write a Star Wars game's story. Trying hard to break the "rules" of franchise means a story probably shouldn't be written as a part of it.

 

You know, sometimes the good guys ARE the good guys and the bad guys are the bad guys. For example, I don't think there ever needed to be a story set in Middle Earth where is was revealed Sauron was just trying to protect the oppressed orcs from human racism or something.

 

I liked most of the individual parts of Kotor 2 better than the first game. Most of the characters especially, but despite the ridiculously unfinished nature of the game, I thought it's biggest problem was trying to tell a story that didn't fit into Star Wars at all in the end. And that's something that I don't think a restored ending can fix. It's the whole point of the game.

 

Kreia was still evil. Just because she had a specific (and utterly insane) agenda regarding nihilism and the force doesn't mean she wasn't evil. So she had a reason for DS actions. So? That still means she'd be darkside. She encourages the Exile to treat all his or her companions like tools, after all. Just because she doesn't approve of being a thug doesn't mean she is a neutral aligned character.

 

Moreover, I found most of her pretentious attempts to question traditional Star Wars beliefs were about things that really didn't need to be questioned. Yet the game treated her statements like sage wisdom that couldn't be contradicted. That and she also seems to add a great deal of random information without explanation.

 

For me, most of her attempts at lessons went like this:

 

"Kreia: Is it really right to help people?"

 

"Yes it is."

 

"Kreia : Is it really wrong to be evil?"

 

"Yes it is, now shut up."

 

It's been a long time since I completed a playthrough, but I remember every time I did in the past, I wanted the option to tell her that she was crazy and I was going to be disregarding all her crazy and useless advice.

Edited August 10, 2012 by OldVengeance

[Cavell]

I also think this. And it is for exactly that reason that I think Avellone was the wrong person to write a Star Wars game's story. Trying hard to break the "rules" of franchise means a story probably shouldn't be written as a part of it.

When the rules of a franchise are internally inconsistent, changing on the whim of the creator, and largely illogical and adversarial towards suspension of disbelief, I think it's perfectly fine to break them.

[OldVengeance]

I disagree, at least when it is done to the extent that Kotor 2 did.

 

For instance, If another Star Wars game or book came out that had great characters and great story but the author decided that they hated mysticism in Sci-fi and wrote in that the Force actually didn't exist and never had existed and that all the things previously attributed to the Force in the movies and books actually had all been Jedi or Sith parlor tricks, then that would still be a terrible Star Wars story regardless of how good the rest of it was. That's obviously a more extreme example of Kotor 2 but I think the principle still applies.

Edited August 10, 2012 by OldVengeance

[MyDarkSunshine]

Personally, I agree completely with Cavell. The more 'grey' approach led to, in my opinion, a far more interesting storyline. Nothing is wrong with the Star Wars as a franchise sticking to black and white morality, however they get fairly bland quite easily. KotOR II managed to paint the universe in a different way, which personally I feel is actually far more engaging and potentially more realistic. Kreia was an amazing character, and I found myself agreeing with some of the points she made, or at least agreeing they were worthy points to make and consider: whether that reflects her manipulative qualities (which does credit to her writers + voice actor), or that she was actually right, I don't entirely know.

 

Avellone didn't exactly "break the rules" of the franchise, but did questioned them. Such questions asked in the voice of characters, in an entirely believable way, and a way in which it is impossible to contradict Lucas' (as creator's) own opinion of his universe's morality; in the same way humans can question the fundamental nature of forces such as gravity, but cannot change what they are. Not an entirely accurate comparison, but more accurate than the suggested 'the Force is a hoax' or 'Sauron was a good guy' exaggerations.

 

With the restored content I believe KotOR II was probably the most enjoyable Star Wars game I have played, however KotOR I will always hold a special place in my heart.

[Ninnocenti]

Can you get the "Finished" KOTOR II for xbox?

[yoomazir]

Can you get the "Finished" KOTOR II for xbox?

 

Sadly no.

[Ninnocenti]

[lokdron]

I prefer kotor 2 this is one of my favourite conversations in this game.

 

 

Plus I actually felt like a sith in kotor 2 in the first game(kotor) majority of the time I was mugging people for dark side points. In kotor 2 majority of my dark side points came from manipulation/deception it was juicy.

[OldVengeance]

Personally, I agree completely with Cavell. The more 'grey' approach led to, in my opinion, a far more interesting storyline. Nothing is wrong with the Star Wars as a franchise sticking to black and white morality, however they get fairly bland quite easily. KotOR II managed to paint the universe in a different way, which personally I feel is actually far more engaging and potentially more realistic. Kreia was an amazing character, and I found myself agreeing with some of the points she made, or at least agreeing they were worthy points to make and consider: whether that reflects her manipulative qualities (which does credit to her writers + voice actor), or that she was actually right, I don't entirely know.

 

Avellone didn't exactly "break the rules" of the franchise, but did questioned them. Such questions asked in the voice of characters, in an entirely believable way, and a way in which it is impossible to contradict Lucas' (as creator's) own opinion of his universe's morality; in the same way humans can question the fundamental nature of forces such as gravity, but cannot change what they are. Not an entirely accurate comparison, but more accurate than the suggested 'the Force is a hoax' or 'Sauron was a good guy' exaggerations.

 

With the restored content I believe KotOR II was probably the most enjoyable Star Wars game I have played, however KotOR I will always hold a special place in my heart.

 

It is not so much the darker tone or the greyer story (I liked those) or even Kreia's questioning of traditonal tropes that bothered me. It was the fact that I never felt like we got to really respond to anything she said. Or almost never. Almost like the game tried send home the point that she was clearly right.

 

As a lightside payer I felt Kreia to constantly wrong about just about everything in all her teachings and rarely, if ever, did she ever say something that I found profound or would cause me question the traditional worldview. She just kept following me around telling me to do bad things for reasons that I never agreed with.

 

The fact that she is always in your ear and most opposing viewpoints are treated with little regard felt like the game wanted me to agree with her. All the Jedi Masters you meet are portrayed as arrogent foolish weaklings (or already killed by a Sith Lord) that Kreia or her student eventually murder with contemptuous ease. While with Kriea, she not only supposedly succeeded at everything but you never get to break her smug exterior even in the end of the game when you defeat her. I don't know if this changes with the Restored Content Mod but the only time I remember she seemed at all ruffled was for a single moment in one conversation that is quickly forgotten when you tell her that you can hear Bao'Dur's thoughts. Kreia seems to be portayed as always smarter and more powerful than essentially everyone around her.

 

I got the sense that the plot itself also seemed to hint she was right, seeing as she apparently manipulated everthing to fit into her plan perfectly and even other charcters appeared to send the message that the Force was either unnessary or bad like the Mandalorians or the inspirational speach from Mical or Visas near the end.

 

Add the fact that she would often say something bizzare without explanation. Like she'd say "Dont do X, it will weaken you" and never tell you why or when she said "There must always be a Darth Traya." What? What does that even mean?

 

To top it all off, once the insanity of her final motives (Kill the Force) and crazy reason for thinking it was possible (Somehow I know that The Force's destiny doesn't apply to you) just stopped me from taking her or the game all that seriously in the finale.

 

The final impression I had been left with was that she was an evil nihilistic lunatic with delusions of granduer, but I think I was supposed to respect her even if I didn't agree with everything she said. Seeing as she was kind of the main part of the story of Kotor 2, that severely affected the game's story in my eyes.

 

The above video of her talking to the Exile is a good example of her philosophy. She says that the darkside is a quick short path that doesn't lead to higher answers, then pretty much spouts off Sith Teachings 101 almost word for word. And it wouldn't take a Jedi player long to dismiss this as wrong. She's really not that exceptionally different from many of the traditional molds of a Sith.

 

And apart from Kreia there is also the fact that her and the Exile's story (among other things) clearly does no tseem fit into established continuity. The driving force of the whole game is that the Exile was wounded through the force by the mass destruction at Malachor V causing her or him to cut themselves off from the Force to survive while others perished. An intruiging idea certainly, except this does not make sense with either Kotor I or the movies. Neither Revan, Malak or Bastila collapsed in agony with the destruction of Taris and Darth Vader didnt fall over dead in A New Hope after the destruction of Alderaan. The only way I was able to rationalize that and Nihilus's ridiculously overpowered abilities was with a lot of headcanon.

[Rayla_Felana]

It is not so much the darker tone or the greyer story (I liked those) or even Kreia's questioning of traditonal tropes that bothered me. It was the fact that I never felt like we got to really respond to anything she said. Or almost never. Almost like the game tried send home the point that she was clearly right.

 

As a lightside payer I felt Kreia to constantly wrong about just about everything in all her teachings and rarely, if ever, did she ever say something that I found profound or would cause me question the traditional worldview. She just kept following me around telling me to do bad things for reasons that I never agreed with.

 

The fact that she is always in your ear and most opposing viewpoints are treated with little regard felt like the game wanted me to agree with her. All the Jedi Masters you meet are portrayed as arrogent foolish weaklings (or already killed by a Sith Lord) that Kreia or her student eventually murder with contemptuous ease. While with Kriea, she not only supposedly succeeded at everything but you never get to break her smug exterior even in the end of the game when you defeat her. I don't know if this changes with the Restored Content Mod but the only time I remember she seemed at all ruffled was for a single moment in one conversation that is quickly forgotten when you tell her that you can hear Bao'Dur's thoughts. Kreia seems to be portayed as always smarter and more powerful than essentially everyone around her.

 

I got the sense that the plot itself also seemed to hint she was right, seeing as she apparently manipulated everthing to fit into her plan perfectly and even other charcters appeared to send the message that the Force was either unnessary or bad like the Mandalorians or the inspirational speach from Mical or Visas near the end.

 

Add the fact that she would often say something bizzare without explanation. Like she'd say "Dont do X, it will weaken you" and never tell you why or when she said "There must always be a Darth Traya." What? What does that even mean?

 

To top it all off, once the insanity of her final motives (Kill the Force) and crazy reason for thinking it was possible (Somehow I know that The Force's destiny doesn't apply to you) just stopped me from taking her or the game all that seriously in the finale.

 

The final impression I had been left with was that she was an evil nihilistic lunatic with delusions of granduer, but I think I was supposed to respect her even if I didn't agree with everything she said. Seeing as she was kind of the main part of the story of Kotor 2, that severely affected the game's story in my eyes.

 

The above video of her talking to the Exile is a good example of her philosophy. She says that the darkside is a quick short path that doesn't lead to higher answers, then pretty much spouts off Sith Teachings 101 almost word for word. And it wouldn't take a Jedi player long to dismiss this as wrong. She's really not that exceptionally different from many of the traditional molds of a Sith.

 

And apart from Kreia there is also the fact that her and the Exile's story (among other things) clearly does no tseem fit into established continuity. The driving force of the whole game is that the Exile was wounded through the force by the mass destruction at Malachor V causing her or him to cut themselves off from the Force to survive while others perished. An intruiging idea certainly, except this does not make sense with either Kotor I or the movies. Neither Revan, Malak or Bastila collapsed in agony with the destruction of Taris and Darth Vader didnt fall over dead in A New Hope after the destruction of Alderaan. The only way I was able to rationalize that and Nihilus's ridiculously overpowered abilities was with a lot of headcanon.

 

Did you ever think that you as a player was manipulated the entire time to listen to what she had to say, she never once spoke with truth, she was a Sith Lord, the Lord of Betrayals, whom had manipulated pretty much every single major figure in the known galaxy, she is an extremely smart Sith Lord in the same vein as Vergere, everything she said was meant to twist your mind, as a Light Sider you can outright refuse to listen to anything she says and basically spit in her face when she suggests leaving the weak to their fate.

 

Also, Force Users aren't effected by mass death when they allow themselves to be corrupted by the Dark Side, Dark Siders do not feel the effects in the same way regular Force Users are, if you read the lore on that properly, you know that when Alderaan was destroyed, their was a force user that was knocked out for days by the effects, Obi-Wan felt the effects but his mind was well-trained enough to not be to adversely effected by it, the same happened with the Death Star's destruction, more rogue Jedi were hurt by the massive simultaneous death, one Jedi actually died from the after effects through the force, the Second Death Star's destruction had no adverse effects as Darth Sidious consumed the power of that mass death to fuel his energy enough for his spirit to find his clone bodies.

 

The Wounds in the Force, in reality, are the same as Force Nexus' more closely, Dark Side ones, much like planets such as Korriban, Dromund Kaas, Ziost, Malachor V and others, they are one in the same, the Dark Side doesn't just corrupt life, it destroys it at it's most extreme levels, such as Darths Nihilus, Sidious, Vitiate, even lesser Sith such as Jadus and Zash.

 

At the Dark Side's heart is the death of the force, that's what the Dark Side does best, kills Force energy and hence life, that is the ultimate display of the Dark Side of the Force, because it's the anti-force in reality.

[Vespassian]

These games were and still are so amazingly crafted.. I can't compare them.

[Elmillia]

I prefer Kotor 3. (SWTOR)

[Nehcroskull]

My issue with people thinking that Kreia is presented as unambiguously right, is that A) She had a very strong will and was confident in beliefs that she developed over decades, and was trying to manipulate you to agree with her. It's not likely that you're going to sway someone like that. And B) The game seemingly presents most other characters you speak with as very 'right', though more susceptible to your influence. And these characters are in constant conflict with eachother's beliefs, so it's kind of hard to say that any of them are presented as 'right', just more competent than another.

[BrandonSM]

My issue with people thinking that Kreia is presented as unambiguously right, is that A) She had a very strong will and was confident in beliefs that she developed over decades, and was trying to manipulate you to agree with her. It's not likely that you're going to sway someone like that. And B) The game seemingly presents most other characters you speak with as very 'right', though more susceptible to your influence. And these characters are in constant conflict with eachother's beliefs, so it's kind of hard to say that any of them are presented as 'right', just more competent than another.

 

Revan is not the heart of the Force. Only one should be called that, and thats the Chosen One.

[MyDarkSunshine]

Revan is not the heart of the Force. Only one should be called that, and thats the Chosen One.

 

He was never stated to be; the phrase was simply used by Kreia in a simile describing him.

[Aurbere]

Revan is not the heart of the Force. Only one should be called that, and thats the Chosen One.

 

True. Kriea's a sack of lies. She is the only thing I didn't like about KOTOR 2. Other than that, the game beat the original by a longshot.

[BrandonSM]

He was never stated to be; the phrase was simply used by Kreia in a simile describing him.

 

I was replying to the guy that was saying Kreia is right about everything..

[OldVengeance]

Did you ever think that you as a player was manipulated the entire time to listen to what she had to say, she never once spoke with truth, she was a Sith Lord, the Lord of Betrayals, whom had manipulated pretty much every single major figure in the known galaxy, she is an extremely smart Sith Lord in the same vein as Vergere, everything she said was meant to twist your mind, as a Light Sider you can outright refuse to listen to anything she says and basically spit in her face when she suggests leaving the weak to their fate.

 

 

 

Yeah I got that she was a master of deception and that she lied and manipulated her way through the entire game but to what purpose? She clearly seems to have some grand agenda behind her machinations and definitely appears to be grooming the Exile for some specific objective. I have to imagine at least some of what she said was true, at least near the end otherwise her character becomes impossible to interpret and anything she said becomes completely meaningless. Her reason for loving the Exile is the same in either case, regardless of alignment. What would be the point of trying to manipulate her student into ignoring her, especially when her greatest desires appear to be that the Exile preserve the ability to not rely on the force?

 

Also, Force Users aren't effected by mass death when they allow themselves to be corrupted by the Dark Side, Dark Siders do not feel the effects in the same way regular Force Users are, if you read the lore on that properly, you know that when Alderaan was destroyed, their was a force user that was knocked out for days by the effects, Obi-Wan felt the effects but his mind was well-trained enough to not be to adversely effected by it, the same happened with the Death Star's destruction, more rogue Jedi were hurt by the massive simultaneous death, one Jedi actually died from the after effects through the force, the Second Death Star's destruction had no adverse effects as Darth Sidious consumed the power of that mass death to fuel his energy enough for his spirit to find his clone bodies.

According to what sources exactly? Force users have always been shown to be distressed at loss of life and perhaps hurt in extreme cases. But in Kotor the implication is the Mass Shadow Generator created echo's so strong that they were absolutely lethal to any Jedi in the vicinity. The Exile only supposedly survived by cutting them self off from the Force. The death toll on Alderaan was far greater than Malachor and Obi-Wan never seemed more than perturbed. He clearly wasn't using his training to withstand a lethal echo in the force. And why wasn't Luke hurt by destroying the Death Star? He didn't even seem slightly bothered. Moreover, atrocities of great magnitude are not uncommon in the Star Wars universe, why doesn't this happen more often? There were several huge massacres during the Mandalorian Wars alone. The game tries to get around this by saying that Malachor was worse than any atrocity the Mandalorians inflicted upon the Republic, but that actually doesn't make any sense. Canderous says that they razed entire worlds and Atton says the Mandalorians were "slaughtering us by the millions."

 

And assuming you are right, that still wouldn't explain Bastila at Taris.

 

The Wounds in the Force, in reality, are the same as Force Nexus' more closely, Dark Side ones, much like planets such as Korriban, Dromund Kaas, Ziost, Malachor V and others, they are one in the same, the Dark Side doesn't just corrupt life, it destroys it at it's most extreme levels, such as Darths Nihilus, Sidious, Vitiate, even lesser Sith such as Jadus and Zash.

 

At the Dark Side's heart is the death of the force, that's what the Dark Side does best, kills Force energy and hence life, that is the ultimate display of the Dark Side of the Force, because it's the anti-force in reality.[/color]

 

Everybody talked about the whole void in the force thing that afflicted the Exile and Nihilus as something that was fairly unique or never seen before.

 

Corruption and destruction are not quite the same thing. Most examples of usage of the dark side of the force are of the former. I thought that the second game implied through Kreia or Atris that the teachings required to create the voids in the force were an exotic darkside secrets that were not the traditional sith methods.

Edited August 12, 2012 by OldVengeance

[JettrikRyflix]

OldVengeance - I completely agree.

 

KOTOR II was a great game mechanically, and some of the companions were cool (Atton, Brianna, Mira, HK), but it was Kreia that spoiled the game for me.

From the moment I met her on Peragus, I wanted to get rid of her. Even before the force-bond, Kreia was "attached" to my character, and was already bossing me around. She then proceeds to nag me for my entire journey, telling me how stupid I am to help people, and how I should manipulate everything instead. Every conversation with her was a nightmare. All I wanted was a response that said: "Shut up and get off my ship!!!"

 

The worst part of it all? Everybody (IRL) seems to love her, and praises her insight and wisdom. They can't seem to realize that Kreia had a (poorly) hidden agenda, and was manipulating them from the get-go. Her brilliant ideas on helping people by never helping them are plainly just selfish. All she ever did was use people, which is not "grey" or "cool" or "complex". It's straight-up evil.

Unfortunately, her manipulation worked on the majority of the people who played KOTOR II.

 

Don't get me wrong - I liked KOTOR II in general, but Kreia made it a pain. However, the realism was broken when I was fighting civilians with force powers inside the castle on Malachor V. Oh, and G0-T0.

 

KOTOR I, by the way, was absolutely fantastic. The story was captivating, and I always wanted to know what happened next. Also, I much preferred being force-bound to Bastila than Kreia. Pretty much polar opposites.

And who doesn't like Calo Nord?

[Rayla_Felana]

Yeah I got that she was a master of deception and that she lied and manipulated her way through the entire game but to what purpose? She clearly seems to have some grand agenda behind her machinations and definitely appears to be grooming the Exile for some specific objective. I have to imagine at least some of what she said was true, at least near the end otherwise her character becomes impossible to interpret and anything she said becomes completely meaningless. Her reason for loving the Exile is the same in either case, regardless of alignment. What would be the point of trying to manipulate her student into ignoring her, especially when her greatest desires appear to be that the Exile preserve the ability to not rely on the force?

 

The point was to show the Jedi Order they were wrong and make them realise why so many Jedi had fallen in the past century, if that failed and her teachings weren't justified, she resumed her mantle as Dark Lord of the Sith, set about the destruction of Nihilus, Atris and Sion, but more importantly she was going to use her bond to the Exile and the Exile's bonds, etc.... to kill the force for good by making a massive chain reaction.

 

According to what sources exactly? Force users have always been shown to be distressed at loss of life and perhaps hurt in extreme cases. But in Kotor the implication is the Mass Shadow Generator created echo's so strong that they were absolutely lethal to any Jedi in the vicinity. The Exile only supposedly survived by cutting them self off from the Force. The death toll on Alderaan was far greater than Malachor and Obi-Wan never seemed more than perturbed. He clearly wasn't using his training to withstand a lethal echo in the force. And why wasn't Luke hurt by destroying the Death Star? He didn't even seem slightly bothered. Moreover, atrocities of great magnitude are not uncommon in the Star Wars universe, why doesn't this happen more often? There were several huge massacres during the Mandalorian Wars alone. The game tries to get around this by saying that Malachor was worse than any atrocity the Mandalorians inflicted upon the Republic, but that actually doesn't make any sense. Canderous says that they razed entire worlds and Atton says the Mandalorians were "slaughtering us by the millions."

 

And assuming you are right, that still wouldn't explain Bastila at Taris.

 

Massacres, etc.... are prolonged deaths and tend to turn the effected area into pockets of Dark Side energy, the biggest example is Korriban, after the massacre by the Republic, the planet became a Nexus of Dark Side force energy, also the sources are numerous, look up the effects if you don't believe what I am saying.

 

The Wounds in the Force were so horrific, because everybody died simultaneously, it was done within seconds, hundreds of thousands of dead Jedi, Mandalorians and Republic troopers, as well as the ships in orbit, eventually the planet became an extreme version of a Dark Side nexus, where by basically standing upon it would turn you to the Dark Side, which happened to literally everyone but Surik.

 

Also, where Alderaan was concerned, there was a Jedi that was knocked out by the effects from as far out as the outer-rim and Obi-Wan must have either been well-trained or somehow protected from physical effects.

 

 

 

Everybody talked about the whole void in the force thing that afflicted the Exile and Nihilus as something that was fairly unique or never seen before.

 

Well the KotOR sourcebook claims itself that the Wounds were extreme cases of Force Nexus, the one the Exile had was rather confusing, as it seemed to work externally, unlike the Dark Nexus Nihilus had which was extremely internal, the Jedi, Sith, no one had ever seen something like it before.

 

Corruption and destruction are not quite the same thing. Most examples of usage of the dark side of the force are of the former. I thought that the second game implied through Kreia or Atris that the teachings required to create the voids in the force were an exotic darkside secrets that were not the traditional sith methods.

 

Ah but other Sith Lords have displayed varying proficiencies in this type of Dark power: Exar Kun, Darth Sidious, Lord Vitiate and Darth Jadus.

 

Darth Sidious did it naturally when he had reached what was basically the apex of his power, through his Dark Side Nexus, all the most powerful Sith Lords, have this ability in common, knowing this, the patterns start to lay themselves down and you come to see exactly what the Dark Side really can do, especially now we've seen and heard of the effects that Abeloth has, the most powerful Dark Side entity we've ever seen, she is like the Galaxy's reset button.