virgowars Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This just boggles my mind, I see it all the time, but in SWTOR its so clear cut it just amazes me. Do most crafters really not know how to price anything? Currently I'm seeing the light, medium and heavy belts and bracers being put on the auction house for 10k a pop. Are you kidding me? Other than crafting these there is ONE and only ONE place you can buy an orange mod-able belt/bracer. The legacy vendor sells these for 75k + Legacy 10, or 75k + Legacy 20. That's it, that's your competition, a single vendor with a SET price. At the very least, 75k per item is your ceiling cap on pricing if you ignore the legacy level. Selling for 75k discounts the need for legacy level and a clear undercut on the game vendor itself. Heck, are you in a pricing war with a competing crafter, juggle between yourselves down to 50k. But to routinely see belts and bracers for 10k, with next in pricing at 15k etc. I mean do you just not care? You put in the time to learn and make these items, why undervalue your work so much? I honestly just don't get it. This isn't about price gouging, or market fixing, but when something is so clear cut in even what the game values an item at and you sell it for LESS, I just don't understand. Please explain this to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescloutier Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Cause people are too busy trying to undercut eachother rather than set a fair price. Personally I always look at mat cost before trying to sell an item. If I'd have to sell it at a loss I just don't bother. Enough things out there to make that I don't have to chase a sale just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cityfern Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 You can also buy them from a vendor on the fleet for fleet commendations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinionx Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This just boggles my mind, I see it all the time, but in SWTOR its so clear cut it just amazes me. Do most crafters really not know how to price anything? Currently I'm seeing the light, medium and heavy belts and bracers being put on the auction house for 10k a pop. Are you kidding me? Other than crafting these there is ONE and only ONE place you can buy an orange mod-able belt/bracer. The legacy vendor sells these for 75k + Legacy 10, or 75k + Legacy 20. That's it, that's your competition, a single vendor with a SET price. At the very least, 75k per item is your ceiling cap on pricing if you ignore the legacy level. Selling for 75k discounts the need for legacy level and a clear undercut on the game vendor itself. Heck, are you in a pricing war with a competing crafter, juggle between yourselves down to 50k. But to routinely see belts and bracers for 10k, with next in pricing at 15k etc. I mean do you just not care? You put in the time to learn and make these items, why undervalue your work so much? I honestly just don't get it. This isn't about price gouging, or market fixing, but when something is so clear cut in even what the game values an item at and you sell it for LESS, I just don't understand. Please explain this to me. What you are complaining about is simple economic theory. If you think 10K is too cheap, then by all means, by them out and re-sell them at a price that you think is market rate. If you are right, then people will buy at the price you are selling. However, if you see something like 10 belts all selling at 10K, that means supply is simply outstripping demand and 10K *is* the right price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darev Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) As others have alluded to, it's the customer's that set the prices, not the crafters/merchants. I can make level 48 artifact shields and foci all day long (as an example) with one of my toons and price them for 42k each. However if they never sell, I'm either making the wrong thing, or trying to sell them at too high a price. I don't have a lot of luck selling orange shells for much more than 10 - 12k each, regardless of which part of the body they're for. Also, OP, you're not thinking of the lightside/darkside vendors where you can get some low level orange gloves/boots for pretty cheap, in addition to all of the various social gear. The newly released boots/gloves/belts/bracers are more for the people who want a complete set of a type of armor, as opposed to just any random pair of orange gloves. Edited July 26, 2012 by Darev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parmie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Another thread telling people to charge more just because they could? These items don't even require rare materials so I guess not every crafter is out to charge high prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finelinebob Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That is what happens when any idiot can produce gear of the exact same quality as anyone else ... you get idiotic pricing. There is nothing in this game that allows you to improve or alter the quality of the items that you craft in a way that distinguishes yourself from any other crafter. There is nothing in this game to show you have any skill at crafting and as such that you can make gear any more valuable than the next person. As a result, there will always be people who will undercut the market because they can, with no idea of how they could be making more credits by holding firm. When you're in a system with no way of creating quality, charging more "because you can" is the only "justification" available for making credits that there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I've been complaining about this as well, I sold a good few Advanced Skill Augments on my PT for 130k ea, seen I was making a nice bit of profit off them so I made more overnight, got back on and there was people undercutting each other so badly it was beyond a joke. I honestly couldn't care any less if people undercut me, I know they'll eventually sell, but for people to do it by a large margin is just stupid. There were Augments now on the market for prices 128k>123k>115k>100k>95k>85k>78k>73k (prices had some digits after but you get the idea) there's no need to undercut by that amount, especially when they sell pretty fast (if not, overnight) I've stopped crafting them now for about a week, i'd hate to see their price if they continued to be sold like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deusBAAL Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I've been complaining about this as well, I sold a good few Advanced Skill Augments on my PT for 130k ea, seen I was making a nice bit of profit off them so I made more overnight, got back on and there was people undercutting each other so badly it was beyond a joke. I honestly couldn't care any less if people undercut me, I know they'll eventually sell, but for people to do it by a large margin is just stupid. There were Augments now on the market for prices 128k>123k>115k>100k>95k>85k>78k>73k (prices had some digits after but you get the idea) there's no need to undercut by that amount, especially when they sell pretty fast (if not, overnight) I've stopped crafting them now for about a week, i'd hate to see their price if they continued to be sold like that. poor you. GTN is still loaded and loaded with augs, everyone and their dog is making those. And once prices to drop around 50k (for purple 22 main stat ones) I may even start buying some I cant make myself on one of my alts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 poor you. GTN is still loaded and loaded with augs, everyone and their dog is making those. And once prices to drop around 50k (for purple 22 main stat ones) I may even start buying some I cant make myself on one of my alts. Only reason I started making them was because cheapest prices at the time were 125k, and there was only 2 pages of them. Whole different story now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorica Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Nothing new to MMO Economics. If you do not like the prices, then either do not purchase it or create all the toons necessary to make everything. However, some of the prices are preset by the Galactic Market posting interface. I do agree that some of the prices are dream (outlandish) prices such as posting a speeder for 5 million. I just laugh at that and continue on with my jalopy or vanilla speeder. Unless there is some silly buyer out there, he would sell that a lot quicker at 400,000 to 500,000 since the Praxon costs 300K. The thing is, some of the posters are kids without the understanding of economics and those who would pay 5 million are probably kids too. Edited July 26, 2012 by Lorica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asbalana Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Only reason I started making them was because cheapest prices at the time were 125k, and there was only 2 pages of them. Whole different story now. True, when 1.3 hit, the prices of augments and purple tech parts went through the roof. Things sold quickly at a large multiple of their production costs. Those who had stockpiled made a killing. There was a short time delay but the reaction of the community was predictable. Everyone, their brother, and their cats started to run slicing mission after slicing mission (mostly at the highest level) and those who could (and that is most everyone) started kicking out kits and augments. So the market became glutted and swung in the opposite direction. I think that things are pretty underpriced now. I took a look at top level augments earlier this week because someone had posted that they are making money selling them. We can always use additional products to sell and diversify our offerings. It was mind boggling. After a quick sort, I found that the top level purple augments were starting in the 60K range and there were pages of listings in the 70s. I quickly came to the conclusion that augments are not worth the effort unless I am crafting for my own use and even then I could buy what I wanted for less than the value / cost of what it would take to make my own (even though I obtain all the mats through mission / gathering skills). I think that we are in another time warp where people still have not figured out that there is an oversupply of augments, kits, and key mats and are still pumping them out. It reminds me of the stock market where most people are behind the curve and buy high and sell low. Things will eventually right themselves and prices will settle to the point where a decent (not great) profit can be made, but we are not close to that yet. As far as the original question is concerned, yes there is a healthy number of pricing idiots out there. Yesterday I hit the GTN to list some stuff and ended up buying a number of items because they were so underpriced. There is a risk in that because it is easy to get burned if you buy and can't use the items or resell them. You have to know what you are doing and even then there is still a risk, but the items I bought were so underpriced that it was sad. I don't like flipping because all that does is add price and no value and that offends me, but there is a limit where some things are so underpriced that it would be dumb not to buy. LOL, things will probably stabilize by the next patch at which time they will get crazy once more and the pricing idiots wlll once again flock to the GTN in large number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzeebaWifa Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That's what you get with a set-stat crafting system. The only modifier is the price. Whereas if you have a craftable item who's stats can vary, depending on the materials used to make said item. The price can fluctuate greatly and the price of an item fluctuates with the quality and people are willing to pay a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panicknife Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This is how free market economics goes. If there's people willing to sell it for a lower price, that's the fair price of the item. Milton Friedman says DEAL WITH IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This just boggles my mind, I see it all the time, but in SWTOR its so clear cut it just amazes me. Do most crafters really not know how to price anything? Currently I'm seeing the light, medium and heavy belts and bracers being put on the auction house for 10k a pop. Are you kidding me? Other than crafting these there is ONE and only ONE place you can buy an orange mod-able belt/bracer. The legacy vendor sells these for 75k + Legacy 10, or 75k + Legacy 20. That's it, that's your competition, a single vendor with a SET price. At the very least, 75k per item is your ceiling cap on pricing if you ignore the legacy level. Selling for 75k discounts the need for legacy level and a clear undercut on the game vendor itself. Heck, are you in a pricing war with a competing crafter, juggle between yourselves down to 50k. But to routinely see belts and bracers for 10k, with next in pricing at 15k etc. I mean do you just not care? You put in the time to learn and make these items, why undervalue your work so much? I honestly just don't get it. This isn't about price gouging, or market fixing, but when something is so clear cut in even what the game values an item at and you sell it for LESS, I just don't understand. Please explain this to me. You're overlooking the fact that it is rediculously easy for people with very little skill/time invested to churn these out, so supply is/will be vastly outstripping demand. If I wanted to I could craft ~5 or so every 15 minutes. It would be trivial for me to singlehandedly flood the market. (of course, I don't. That would be stupid, but the fact is there are enough crafters making them that it's becoming flooded anyways.) To be quite honest, I'm extremely surprised the price on them has kept as high as it has for as long as it has. Just because the NPC vendors price them at 75k has no relation to how far supply/demand will drive them down. When they only take maybe 2k max to make the lvl 50 ones, and maybe 400 to max to make the equally useful lvl 11 (or whatever the lowest level ones are) undercutting is going to be bringing the prices WAAAAAY down. Especially as more and more crafters finally manage to learn/find the schematics. I'm honestly surprised they aren't already in the sub 5k range. (Heck, I was actually expecting selling non critted ones would already be pointless, and you'd be better off REing them for the augmentation kit mat, but the kits have surprisingly dropped even faster than the bracers/belts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyStrong Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This just boggles my mind, I see it all the time, but in SWTOR its so clear cut it just amazes me. Do most crafters really not know how to price anything? Currently I'm seeing the light, medium and heavy belts and bracers being put on the auction house for 10k a pop. Are you kidding me? Other than crafting these there is ONE and only ONE place you can buy an orange mod-able belt/bracer. The legacy vendor sells these for 75k + Legacy 10, or 75k + Legacy 20. That's it, that's your competition, a single vendor with a SET price. At the very least, 75k per item is your ceiling cap on pricing if you ignore the legacy level. Selling for 75k discounts the need for legacy level and a clear undercut on the game vendor itself. Heck, are you in a pricing war with a competing crafter, juggle between yourselves down to 50k. But to routinely see belts and bracers for 10k, with next in pricing at 15k etc. I mean do you just not care? You put in the time to learn and make these items, why undervalue your work so much? I honestly just don't get it. This isn't about price gouging, or market fixing, but when something is so clear cut in even what the game values an item at and you sell it for LESS, I just don't understand. Please explain this to me. WOW, I am level 19 and on Kass, I'm not sure where or how but while I have been adventuring around I have found a costume belt & wrist (not sure about wrist might have been a double bladed LightSaber) that binds on equip. Guess I got lucky. I can understand your frustration but i don't share it because as bad as thing might be here(I don't think it's really bad at all) it's not even close to the frustration levels i had to deal with while trying to use Diablo 3's auction house. There Auctions house is completly FUBAR. You want a good weapon from there auction house be prepared to cough-up about 15-30 million easy!!! THINK ABOUT THAT:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidRaid Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Personally if I see things go too low I have bought the lot of low price idem and them put them back at higher prices pocketing the profit. I did this with augment when they went down to 60k I bought all the ones that were 90k and below (about 20 of them) and started putting them back on the market at 100k. It took about a week for the prices to drop back down to 80k A made a bit of profit and at the same time propped up the market. I am pretty sure I am not the only one doing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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