Normalise level 50 PVP

[Morrolan]

Why does everything have to be made so easy?

Its not about making it easy its about emphasizing what PvP is all about, pitting players skill against each other. PvP shouldn't be a gear grind in terms of getting more powerful gear.

[Elkirin]

4-5 posts from one author disagreeing with the suggestion. This still counts as one opinion against..

 

I agree with the idea as stated by the OP. This counts as one opinion for....as follows;

 

 

 

On the asia-pacific servers, under 50s pvp rocks along, over 50s is dying a grim death. Bolstering has a degree of impact on this. The 4-5th time through recruit-BM-WH gear is not as much fun as bolstered pvp.

 

I also strongly dislike being told I am a good player by people who are comparing me to a recruit geared opponent, it is rubbish and I am not even sure I want to heal or dps anymore until they give the new guys a sporting chance.

 

They get smashed without any chance to use skills, they stop queuing and I get to spend another hour on fleet waiting, yeh right, just normalise the stats and let us actually pvp. No we are NOT on origin servers.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Elkirin

[Lenlo]

What happens when this is implemented, but it comes down to FPS and latency? I'll die laughing when I hear, "Alienware is OP! Nerf FPS!" or "Fiber-Optic gives other players an unfair advantage, normalize lag!".

[Erasimus]

Its not about making it easy its about emphasizing what PvP is all about, pitting players skill against each other. PvP shouldn't be a gear grind in terms of getting more powerful gear.

 

MMO PvP is about strategy and understanding each classes strengths and weaknesses. Even a group that is somewhat out geared can win if they are coordinated. Gear is a part of all the MMOs I've played, including PvP. If nothing else it differentiates PvE from PvP players and gives each distinct goals in terms of achievements and progression.

 

The PvP gear grind in this game seems trivial compared to others I've played. However the relatively low skill cap tends to emphasize both the class imbalances and gear differences.

 

If you want a "Skill"/twitch game, the FPSs like BF3, COD, etc are what you are looking for.

[Amien]

I agree. I'm primarily a PvE person, but every once in a while I get tired of just having to run behind a boss the size of a building. I think, "Hey, it sounds like alot of fun to go against other people who can think, not just NPCs!" Then I get into a WZ with my 3 BM pieces+recruit and remember why I still don't have the full BM or WH stuff. I'm too casual of a player to bother grinding that stuff out. Don't get me wrong- if it were a fun process I would do it, even if it takes alot of work! But getting roflstomped and groundpounded for so many WZ's gets very disheartening very quickly. I've been playing since launch and am a MAJOR altaholic, so I have trouble focusing on gearing up my sorcerer solely. Edited July 25, 2012 by Amien

[marcusbjol]

Agreed here.

 

RWZs should be about skill. The gear treadmill is getting old.

 

And there are other MMORPGs that do normalize for PVP (sPVP in GW2).

[khalfani]

Agreed here.

 

RWZs should be about skill. The gear treadmill is getting old.

 

And there are other MMORPGs that do normalize for PVP (sPVP in GW2).

 

There are people over in GW2 beta that are getting facerolled there, too.

 

The gear grind, like the cake, is a lie. Most of the groaning here is L2P. If SOME people are winning and others aren't, the problem isn't with the game - the problem is that the people losing haven't figured out how to WIN.

[marcusbjol]

There are people over in GW2 beta that are getting facerolled there, too.

 

The gear grind, like the cake, is a lie. Most of the groaning here is L2P. If SOME people are winning and others aren't, the problem isn't with the game - the problem is that the people losing haven't figured out how to WIN.

 

Bad players get facerolled; anything new and provocative about that?

 

I ran VS earlier with my Vangaurd and stomped a guy. AP: 4k. HIB: 4k. SS: 2.5k. HIB: 4k. Dead. I won and I say I did it with superior gear, not skill.

[Thornsbane]

Its very easy to get Battlemaster gear, and if your getting stomped in BM its not because of a gear problem as BM gear is so close to war hero.

 

I just grabed the stats on War Hero War Leaders armguards for an example:

 

 

War Hero

+67 Strength

+73 Endurance

+70 Expertise Rating

+32 Defense Rating

 

Battlemaster

+61 Strength

+69 Endurance

+67 Expertise Rating

+29 Absorption Rating

 

Stat Improvement:

+6 str

+4 end

+3 exp

+3 absorb

 

If your getting stomped because your opponant has an extra 3 expertise (15 is he has say 5 pieces) then I dont know what to tell you. They are all like this except the mainhand I think.

 

And you can augment Battlemaster gear, which you would do if the grind to War Hero is so long.

[Elkirin]

I have a guy that didn't even play PvP until after 1.2, I ran in recruit gear against premades and War Hero geared players and I am already at full augmented War Hero so don't give me the it takes years of horrible grind BS.

 

Please come create a character on an asia -pacific server and show us this rapid gearing up system.

 

Oh by the way, it is not un heard of to have to wait an hr between lvl 50 warzone pops here in our primetime ( except tuesdays of course) , good luck

 

 

Please introduce cross server pvp soon.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Elkirin

[Thornsbane]

Please come create a character on an asia -pacific server and show us this rapid gearing up system.

 

Oh by the way, it is not un heard of to have to wait an hr between lvl 50 warzone pops here in our primetime ( except tuesdays of course) , good luck

 

 

Please introduce cross server pvp soon.

 

Im in Asia Pacific servers as well, and I NEVER wait more than 5-10mins for lvl 50 WZ's.....even after midnight.....

[Cosmic_Forge]

After getting farmed by war hero's for 3 hours tonight, I've lost all sympathy for any of their arguments.

 

At this point, I think if your valor is above 70, you should be forced to play ranked. Take your ego stroking somewhere else. I really don't care how long or how hard you had to work to get the gear, farming fresh 50's for easy mode is pathetic. It ruins it for the rest of us.

 

The drastic change from 10-49 bracket and 50 kills any fun PVP had. It's really like playing 10-49, but without any upscaling.

[Helig]

Matching the average valor rating would be, in my opinion, a reasonable approach to PuG games.

 

Actually makes a lot of sense. The more valor you have - the more medals you got - the more comms you should have available for gear purchase. This would even cover pre-50 grinds for people who are capped on comms before they even hit max level.

 

Simple, elegant, efficient.

After getting farmed by war hero's for 3 hours tonight, I've lost all sympathy for any of their arguments.

 

At this point, I think if your valor is above 70, you should be forced to play ranked. Take your ego stroking somewhere else. I really don't care how long or how hard you had to work to get the gear, farming fresh 50's for easy mode is pathetic. It ruins it for the rest of us.

 

The drastic change from 10-49 bracket and 50 kills any fun PVP had. It's really like playing 10-49, but without any upscaling.

As long as it offers the ability to queue into rateds solo and the system adequately gauges the performance of individual players (hint - not happening), I'd rather stick to regulars, thank you. Got no interest of playing in a mediocre rated group, and assembling a good one is a pain in the neck.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Helig

[dronepilot]

Actually makes a lot of sense. The more valor you have - the more medals you got - the more comms you should have available for gear purchase. This would even cover pre-50 grinds for people who are capped on comms before they even hit max level.

 

Simple, elegant, efficient.

 

As long as it offers the ability to queue into rateds solo and the system adequately gauges the performance of individual players (hint - not happening), I'd rather stick to regulars, thank you. Got no interest of playing in a mediocre rated group, and assembling a good one is a pain in the neck.

 

Valor has nothing to do with anything. I'm sorry, Valor rating doesn't prove the skill of a player, just that they grinded through lots of pain to get to that valor level, I don't think medals and valor are even in any way related either.

 

Side Note !

 

For those who say they have no sympathy for War heroes and our arguments, I say the same to you, I don't feel sympathy for you either. Be quiet, and earn your gear, like we had to. This is how it works in this game, you earn the right to wear the gear, you grind away for. You feel an achievement at the end of it as well, for knowing you stuck around a rid the storm, to get there.

 

Even if PVP was normalised, I got level 61 gear, fresh 50s have level 49's or 51's - I will still steam roll you. So what was your point, ? you want to take away the gear I have played for, and earned ? please do me a favour and think about what your saying.

[DarthPaintball]

I can agree that the gear disparity is bad, and that anyone coming into 50 PvP for the first time is probably gonna get rolled. That being said, there are advanced classes/specs that are clearly superior (most people call them FOTM classes on forums).

 

Pyro PT = extreme burst and a rediculously easy playstyle

Jugg / Mara = "smash" builds doing big AoE burst and good survivablility / cooldowns

Tankassins = stealth, good damage/burst, ability to guard

OP healer = the hands-down favorite healer atm... called "unkillable" in many posts

 

All of these are superior choices atm, even in equal gear situations. Until Bioware makes all classes/specs equally viable/desirable, playing what you love takes a backseat to rerolling the FOTM if you want to be competitive.

[Morrolan]

MMO PvP is about strategy and understanding each classes strengths and weaknesses. Even a group that is somewhat out geared can win if they are coordinated. Gear is a part of all the MMOs I've played, including PvP. If nothing else it differentiates PvE from PvP players and gives each distinct goals in terms of achievements and progression.

 

Gear should be a part of it in terms of the strategy of choosing what attributes and abilities you want to emphasise over others but thats different from a gear grind like swtor is.

 

Yes a well co-ordinated group can beat a better geared group but that doesn't happen in PUG groups hence the gear does end up being a factor. I'm half war hero half BM with over half my gear augmented and I notice the difference against full war hero opponents.

[Helig]

Valor has nothing to do with anything. I'm sorry, Valor rating doesn't prove the skill of a player, just that they grinded through lots of pain to get to that valor level, I don't think medals and valor are even in any way related either.

The only thing you should feel "sorry" for is not reading posts before replying to them.

 

Side Note !

 

For those who say they have no sympathy for War heroes and our arguments, I say the same to you, I don't feel sympathy for you either. Be quiet, and earn your gear, like we had to. This is how it works in this game, you earn the right to wear the gear, you grind away for. You feel an achievement at the end of it as well, for knowing you stuck around a rid the storm, to get there.

 

Even if PVP was normalised, I got level 61 gear, fresh 50s have level 49's or 51's - I will still steam roll you. So what was your point, ? you want to take away the gear I have played for, and earned ? please do me a favour and think about what your saying

The difficulty is supposed to go up, not down. Entry-level raids offer easy access to gear to climb to harder raids. It starts in Story Mode and ends in Nightmare mode. PvP, on the other hand, starts on Nightmare mode and ends on Story mode... I do have multiple geared 50s, and I have overcome that brick wall several times already. But I'm a dedicated PvPer. This kind of BS attitude is what turns away potential newbie PvPers. Get over your entitlements and think of the greater picture.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Helig

[Smashbrother]

Hey,

 

There are quite a few threads about, this class is op, this class is not etc, and it is my belief that this is caused by the greater gear disparity that was introduced in 1.3.

 

A fresh 50 in recruit gear, has absolutely no chance what so ever against a full war hero geared player in full augments. I dont care how skilled you are, that stats are against you and you have, no chance of survival.

 

To make matters worse, even at full BM, the differences are too noticable. And due to most people being in war hero now, this grind to war hero gear is ridiculously painful and very off putting.

 

If gear were not an issue, and normal level 50 warzones, NOT rated, were normalised, then 50 pvp would still be competitive and gearing up would be in the mind of playing ranked warzones.

 

You still have your gear progression, as you would be primarily gearing for ranked warzones, which offer better gear as well, but when those ranked warzone players come back to a normal lvl 50 warzone, they get put on a level playing feild.

 

The normalisation would be based on a set stat for all classes. Classes that didnt met this level would be buffed, and those that exceded it would get nerfed.

 

This way, you get a zone that skill dominates not gear, and you can gear yourself for ranked warzones without the frustration of being melted by a guy with better gear.

 

This would encourage more people to play ranked warzones as well, as more people would be at the gear level to compete.

 

Diff between BM and WH gear is negligible. If people are too cheap to augment BM gear, that is their problem, not BW's.

[Helig]

Diff between BM and WH gear is negligible. If people are too cheap to augment BM gear, that is their problem, not BW's.

 

I concur.

 

If Artifact augments are too expensive, get blue ones till you get more money. They go from 10 to 20k on my server, while Artifact augs are anywhere from 80 to 160k.

[Ghostuka]

test

 

Derailing the thread

 

PVP forum is unavailable to me... Still it shows maintenance notice. Yet I could see this thread from the "last post". Anyone else having problem accessing the pvp forum?

[Veniras]

I don't get this discussion. I'ts not really a gear issue. It's an issue of the teams being unbalanced.

 

If both teams have their recruits and their WH's the odds should be even

[earthtoearl]

Not a bad idea from the OP. However, often the unbalance is class match up. Recentely we had a match where the Imps had 5 healers and our side had ZERO. You can guess what happened. The problem with tyring to limit a class in a match is more waiting for the perfect classed match up and few want that.

 

Hitting 50 pvp for the 1st time is often like a freshman getting a chocolate swirly in the bathroom. Quite helpless.

 

As others have said - A simple but easy fix to this is to remove the 2000 WZ com cap COMPLETELY. Dont touch the lvl 50 requirement to equip the gear. That way the grind for good gear can start at lvl 10 and when you hit 50 you are experianced and will have enough comms to buy whatever gear you want. 1 hour to change the code, 1 update and done.(Although this doesn't help players that are already 50)

[Yndras]

4-5 posts from one author disagreeing with the suggestion. This still counts as one opinion against..

 

I agree with the idea as stated by the OP. This counts as one opinion for....as follows;

 

 

 

On the asia-pacific servers, under 50s pvp rocks along, over 50s is dying a grim death. Bolstering has a degree of impact on this. The 4-5th time through recruit-BM-WH gear is not as much fun as bolstered pvp.

 

I also strongly dislike being told I am a good player by people who are comparing me to a recruit geared opponent, it is rubbish and I am not even sure I want to heal or dps anymore until they give the new guys a sporting chance.

 

They get smashed without any chance to use skills, they stop queuing and I get to spend another hour on fleet waiting, yeh right, just normalise the stats and let us actually pvp. No we are NOT on origin servers.

 

I play on apac servers too. Master dar'nala. This is why I made the suggestion.

[Yndras]

MMO PvP is about strategy and understanding each classes strengths and weaknesses. Even a group that is somewhat out geared can win if they are coordinated. Gear is a part of all the MMOs I've played, including PvP. If nothing else it differentiates PvE from PvP players and gives each distinct goals in terms of achievements and progression.

 

The PvP gear grind in this game seems trivial compared to others I've played. However the relatively low skill cap tends to emphasize both the class imbalances and gear differences.

 

If you want a "Skill"/twitch game, the FPSs like BF3, COD, etc are what you are looking for.

 

Your last post was about how easy it was to gear up in wow. Now your contradicting yourself with he above statement about gear giving you a progression path.

[Yndras]

Its very easy to get Battlemaster gear, and if your getting stomped in BM its not because of a gear problem as BM gear is so close to war hero.

 

I just grabed the stats on War Hero War Leaders armguards for an example:

 

 

War Hero

+67 Strength

+73 Endurance

+70 Expertise Rating

+32 Defense Rating

 

Battlemaster

+61 Strength

+69 Endurance

+67 Expertise Rating

+29 Absorption Rating

 

Stat Improvement:

+6 str

+4 end

+3 exp

+3 absorb

 

If your getting stomped because your opponant has an extra 3 expertise (15 is he has say 5 pieces) then I dont know what to tell you. They are all like this except the mainhand I think.

 

And you can augment Battlemaster gear, which you would do if the grind to War Hero is so long.

 

That is a bad example. You chose one of the two pieces with the least amount of stat changes. The over stat difference between BMW and web is quite substantial as wh has better and more relative stats for your character.. This was established in the discussion on page 2.