Taunts work in PvP... but De-taunts don't?

[Kheg]

I should know better than to apply logic to this particular subforum, but would it possibly - ever so slightly possibly - be worth investigating allowing de-taunts (such as Cloud Mind, etc) to apply a damage debuff to your attacker specifically against you in a similar manner that taunts work in the opposite manner?

 

This might actually be a nice little balance to those squishies that run around the warzones complaining that they get their brains splattered against a bantha every few seconds where there's no tanks around to shepherd them every second of the day. Plus, well, it seems extra silly to have those vestigial skills sitting on the toolbars doing nothing 99% of the time.

[oredith]

I should know better than to apply logic to this particular subforum, but would it possibly - ever so slightly possibly - be worth investigating allowing de-taunts (such as Cloud Mind, etc) to apply a damage debuff to your attacker specifically against you in a similar manner that taunts work in the opposite manner?

 

This might actually be a nice little balance to those squishies that run around the warzones complaining that they get their brains splattered against a bantha every few seconds where there's no tanks around to shepherd them every second of the day. Plus, well, it seems extra silly to have those vestigial skills sitting on the toolbars doing nothing 99% of the time.

this would marginalize the tank's role in pvp.

 

if they aren't the only ones that can reduce your damage taken, why bring em?

[Kheg]

this would marginalize the tank's role in pvp.

 

if they aren't the only ones that can reduce your damage taken, why bring em?

 

Because a tank will reduce the damage of an attacker against the entire team for the duration, whereas a de-taunt will reduce the attacker's damage against a single person (yourself) for the duration. The tank still has an incredible amount of value with guard and taunt of his own.

 

Besides, Bioware's propensity for massive DPS means more and more damage sinks are necessary, making tanks even more necessary concurrently with other active damage sinks.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Kheg

[Aaroneus]

this would marginalize the tank's role in pvp.

 

if they aren't the only ones that can reduce your damage taken, why bring em?

 

not to mention their damage got nerfed to hell in 1.3. tanks need taunt, especially seeing how much dps certain classes can put out.

[Smashbrother]

Because a tank will reduce the damage of an attacker against the entire team for the duration, whereas a de-taunt will reduce the attacker's damage against a single person for the duration. The tank still has an incredible amount of value with guard and taunt of his own.

 

Besides, Bioware's propensity for massive DPS means more and more damage sinks are necessary, making tanks even more necessary concurrently with other active damage sinks.

 

It would be nice, but I doubt it will happen.

[xoaxie]

It's a rare thing that a tank casts protection in a warzone. It is even muck more rare to find a tank that will stick around you and make that protection usefull. What is the roll of the squishy classes like sage and sorc? Are these classes kept ineffictive to force people to roll other classes? Or would it just upset people if we had even one single way to survive five seconds of dps from any other class?

[Roycerson]

this would marginalize the tank's role in pvp.

 

if they aren't the only ones that can reduce your damage taken, why bring em?

 

Because an assassin can single target taunt every 15 sec where a scoundrels aggro dump is only good once every 45 sec.. Also a tank's taunt works for everyone where an individual's aggro dump only applies to that individual, also there is guard, and shield, and absorption. As a scoundrel healer believe me, even if my "throw your hands up and dump loose change on the ground" button mitigated a little bit of dmg, I'd still like a tank to be my personal bodyguard, almost doubles my healing numbers the 1 in 50 warzones I get one.

[ComeAndSee]

Taunts and Guard are really the only way to counter the melee zerg's in rated WZ's.

[Smashbrother]

Just want to point out that the threat drops reduce threat against EVERYTHING in pve, so I don't know why you guys are assuming only a single target in pvp.

[Kheg]

Because an assassin can single target taunt every 15 sec where a scoundrels aggro dump is only good once every 45 sec.. Also a tank's taunt works for everyone where an individual's aggro dump only applies to that individual, also there is guard, and shield, and absorption. As a scoundrel healer believe me, even if my "throw your hands up and dump loose change on the ground" button mitigated a little bit of dmg, I'd still like a tank to be my personal bodyguard, almost doubles my healing numbers the 1 in 50 warzones I get one.

 

^^^ This.

 

Detaunt cooldowns are all generally 3x every tank class's taunt cooldown.

 

The adage goes, "Every little bit helps." If it were me, I'd still much prefer a tank slapping guard on me and taunting the person jumping me. But I'd still use my detaunt if it was available to me.

 

 

Just want to point out that the threat drops reduce threat against EVERYTHING in pve, so I don't know why you guys are assuming only a single target in pvp.

So I'm mistaken - my apologies.

 

In my experience in PvE, it always seemed to only work against the mob I was targeting, and not any others - and usually not terribly well for that matter. Perhaps the others were outside of the ability radius or something though.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Kheg

[Smashbrother]

^^^ This.

 

Detaunt cooldowns are all generally 3x every tank class's taunt cooldown.

 

The adage goes, "Every little bit helps." If it were me, I'd still much prefer a tank slapping guard on me and taunting the person jumping me. But I'd still use my detaunt if it was available to me.

 

 

 

So I'm mistaken - my apologies.

 

In my experience in PvE, it always seemed to only work against the mob I was targeting, and not any others - and usually not terribly well for that matter. Perhaps the others were outside of the ability radius or something though.

 

Ya the threat drops are supposed to be used proactively. They only drop threat by a certain % (BW won't say how much exactly), and you should be popping them every cd.

[Ridickilis]

be worth investigating allowing de-taunts (such as Cloud Mind, etc)

 

I made a suggestion in another thread about adding a pvp benefit to cloud mind. Instead of debuffing your opponents damage or accuracy or something, I require something even smaller. When I hit this ability in pvp I want to be instantly removed from combat, not unlike the shadow/assassin force cloak ability. I am not even asking for stealth part of it, just an immediate removal from combat.

 

So, obviously you don't use it when staring down that Marauder right in front of you but you could speed burst, zig-zag a bit and find some cover behind a box or pillar then hit it. Now I can out of combat rez instead of waiting an eternity (8 secs or so) or not at all because you're still a red blip on that Mara's map. I think this would be a nice utility for the Sorc/Sage without being over the top.

 

"I'm not the Sorcerer you're looking for."

Edited July 17, 2012 by Ridickilis

[sharkfinsix]

It would make to much sense for the warhammer online team (Mythic EA) that works on PVP for Bioware EA to fully implement the system they already designed previously. Which was Tanks had AOE Damage reduction taunts and guards while DPS had self only Damage reduction detaunts.

[Darth_Philar]

I have so many great ideas for how Cloud Mind could be a valuable PvP tool for Sorcs/Sages.

 

One of my personal favorites was that you would appear to be on the same team as the person you used it on to that person.

 

Another was that the person you used it on would be unable to target you for 3 seconds.

[SinnedWill]

not to mention their damage got nerfed to hell in 1.3. tanks need taunt, especially seeing how much dps certain classes can put out.

 

Yes, DPS specced PT's/VG's/Juggs/Guardians/Assassins/Shadows dish out terrible DPS so let's reward them with equally effective taunts despite not being tanks! Nerf Sorc/Sage/Ops/Scound/Merc/Commando DPS!!! Those guys are overpowered!

[Aaroneus]

Yes, DPS specced PT's/VG's/Juggs/Guardians/Assassins/Shadows dish out terrible DPS so let's reward them with equally effective taunts despite not being tanks! Nerf Sorc/Sage/Ops/Scound/Merc/Commando DPS!!! Those guys are overpowered!

 

Huh? I'm talkin tank spec's.