Resolve, Roots and the Reasons

[Salubrie]

There does seem to be problems with the Resolve mechanic currently in place. While I have had instances where it is more about understanding a classes mechanics to explain why a knockback or interrupt didn’t function with the enemy having no full resolve bar, but I have also had instances of where it could not be explained. Example a guardian force leaping toward me and knowing he could be immune for 4 seconds after the leap if talented with Unremitting. I have not been able to explain why a Shadow with no resolve could be unaffected by my knockback. If there is a mechanic or ability that I am overlooking that can explain this, please let me know. It is these instances though, that seem to demonstrate that there is a number of problems with the mechanic currently in place.

 

Traditionally in MMOs high damage classes are given weaker armor as a trade off for their high damage output. However given that it has already been stated that there is a desire for all classes to remain within a 5% range of each other, there is a large discrepancy between class abilities. Please understand this is not a call for the reduction of any single class. This also ties into being able to close a distance gap. From a light armor perspective, medium and heavy armor classes are able to close the distance easily. By leaping toward a target or simply pulling the target to them, and then add the ability to be rooted in place once you are there. Granted both light armor classes have a limited sprint ability it still requires you to not be rooted to be of any use. It should also be noted that immobilizing effects cannot be dispelled only some snares. So unless the 2 min break free ability is not on cool down, you’re rooted for the duration.

 

Given the reasons above, I would submit immobilizing effects should be added to the Resolve list. This does not include snares

 

Snares can be removed through talents or abilities. There is no counter to immobilizing effects other than the 2 minute cool down. This change would in no way give light armor classes a free win. Line of sight and other tactics will still be key in survival against other classes, but it would at least provide a chance to survive.

[Helig]

Adding snares to resolve immunity will hurt ranged (Sages in particular) more than it would hurt melee, trust me on that.

 

It would also make Huttball... uninteresting.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Helig

[Smashbrother]

You can cleanse roots and snares.

[Helig]

You can cleanse roots and snares.

 

Not all of them.

[Dmasterr]

I have not been able to explain why a Shadow with no resolve could be unaffected by my knockback.

.

 

Force shroud (assassin) http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qAwuaY/force-shroud

Resilience (shadow) http://www.torhead.com/ability/dEsVsc4/resilience

Given the reasons above, I would submit immobilizing effects should be added to the Resolve list. This does not include snares

.

 

Flawed reasons (premise) , flawed conclusion

 

There is more than dps/hps and armor in the equation,.... there is cc, and utility, off-heal (role) etc.

Also you can cleanse roots and snare (with the appropriate dispel ability - some roots are physical effects, others are not)

 

/thread

Edited July 15, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Salubrie]

I only suggested immobilizing effects (roots). If you look at the in game terms this extends to knockdowns as well as roots. Snares are still considered different and I actually suggested snares not be added to resolve.

[Dmasterr]

I only suggested immobilizing effects (roots). If you look at the in game terms this extends to knockdowns as well as roots. Snares are still considered different and I actually suggested snares not be added to resolve.

 

Roots are 100% snares.

[Salubrie]

Roots are 100% snares.

 

If that was the case then a sage's cure ability should be able to remove an immobilize of Force Wake just like it can remove Force Slow. It does not

[Dmasterr]

If that was the case then a sage's cure ability should be able to remove an immobilize of Force Wake just like it can remove Force Slow. It does not

 

Electric bindings does not fall into force or mental effects, and they are not physical.... they are meant to be undispellable.

[Salubrie]

Electric bindings does not fall into force or mental effects, and they are not physical.... they are meant to be undispellable.

 

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Roots are 100% snares and you can cleanse roots and snare (with the appropriate dispel ability - some roots are physical effects, others are not) unless it is an electric binding which immobilizes you from a force or tech ability for 5 seconds but can break on damage after 2 seconds? But then that would mean that there is such a thing as immobilization that is not a snare correct?

Edited July 15, 2012 by Salubrie
clarification.

[Helig]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Roots are 100% snares and you can cleanse roots and snare (with the appropriate dispel ability - some roots are physical effects, others are not) unless it is an electric binding which immobilizes you from a force or tech ability for 5 seconds but can break on damage after 2 seconds? But then that would mean that there is such a thing as immobilization that is not a snare correct?

 

Root=immobilization. Snare=slow. Just to make stuff easier.

[Salubrie]

Root=immobilization. Snare=slow. Just to make stuff easier.

 

As all talent or ability descriptions refer to either a reduction in movement speed (snare) or immobilization (root) I thought it would be that obvious. But there seems to be a difference of opinion that roots and snares can be dispelled. But then there are some effects (namely the ones that immobilize you for 5 seconds but can break after 2 seconds of damage cannot) that cannot be dispelled. This is a talented ability for a sage/inqu for their knockback or given in two forms to snipers/gunslingers (a single and aoe version both baseline). While I cannot find any reference to an ability that gives 100% movement reduction. Even Force Slow and Telekinetic Throw do not stack to give 100% movement reduction. I thought the distinction would be clear. But yes.. I would very much like to think of it as that simple. But the point remains. If you are immobilized and it cannot be removed by any means other than a 2 minute cool down that is available to all classes then it should be considered to count on Resolve.

[Helig]

As a predominantly melee player, roots are the main thing that's keeping me from my target. Not stuns or slows. Roots prevent charge, Roots go through my resolve. In Huttball, my Guardian would become virtually unstoppable.

 

Careful what you wish, really. I also play a Sage and a Sniper - and roots are far more useful to me than they are to melee.

 

EDIT: My bad, mixed up snares and roots - need to go to bed, really.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Helig

[Salubrie]

As a predominantly melee player, snares are the main thing that's keeping me from a ranged character. Not stuns or slows. Snares prevent charge, snares go through my resolve. In Huttball, my Guardian would become virtually unstoppable.

 

Careful what you wish, really. I also play a Sage and a Sniper - and snares are far more useful to me than they are to melee.

 

I have stated numerous times that snares or reduction in movement should not be on resolve.

 

I am referring to the immobilizing effects (roots) that completely prevent movement and cannot be dispelled

[Helig]

I have stated numerous times that snares or reduction in movement should not be on resolve.

 

I am referring to the immobilizing effects (roots) that completely prevent movement and cannot be dispelled

 

I also was referring to immobilization.

[Salubrie]

I also was referring to immobilization.

 

I play a guardian, commando and sage. Even removing the immobilize effect from leap does not negate it's ability to close the distance to a target to put a target in melee range again.

[Helig]

I play a guardian, commando and sage. Even removing the immobilize effect from leap does not negate it's ability to close the distance to a target to put a target in melee range again.

 

If you played pre-1.2 Focus, you'd know how inconvenient Zealous Leap was without a root when it was used as a mini-gapcloser. You're "rooted" during the flight, ergo you can't move till you hit the ground (and then some). If the enemy was moving at normal speed, and he was charged by a non-immobilizing ability, he'd get out of melee range before the attacking character's GCD ended.

[MbaxterBeau]

Resolve doesn't work all the time if at all and my toon is always dead before it would matter. Light armor + hot healer + no casts unless standing still + being chain cc'd and interrupted = fail. Oh but I just need another class to guard me. LOL!!!

[Funick]

my only issue with roots is when someone gets chain rooted for example as a combat sentinel in huttball the other day when the jugg ball carrier was way ahead of my team I did...

 

leap 3 sec root (15 sec cool down) -> crippling throw 3 sec root(12 sec cool down) -> master strike 3 sec root (27 sec cool down) -> rakata cryoshock grenade 5 sec root (3min cool down) -> 1 sec of movement allowed -> leap 3 sec root-> crippling throw 3 sec root.

 

thats 21 seconds of roots back to back done by one person without even giving any resolve what so ever and only a 1 sec gap allowing some movement. by then my team was rdy to fire pull and get the ball back.

 

if I really just wanted to keep someone from moving as long as possible and they had no cc breaker and I was the only one on them I could follow up with awe 8sec mez-->1 sec of movement allowed-> leap 3 sec root -> crippling throw 3 sec root -master strike 3 sec root-> force stasis 3 sec stun. so that makes 43 seconds with only 2 seconds of movement allowed and 1 combat sentinel can do this. now I would expect cc breaker to be used at some point in here out of pure frustration if they have it.

 

of course many of those roots as well as the mez break on damage forcing me to stop dps but its silly what you can do with this kind of ability in rateds. even if you cc break you only get a few seconds of movement depending which one you break out of.

 

I just think its crazy I can root someone down that long all by myself. honestly the only things usually stopping me from doing this is either myself or my target are long since dead or there's at least help for one of us on either side. usually only really use this kind of chain rooting for rooting a healer out of LOS of the rest of his team preventing his team from getting heals for a lot longer than if I had sent the healer to respawn or for locking down a ball carrier in huttball.

[anwg]

So what you want to say was, all roots should be dispellable.

[lpsmash]

Snares can be removed through talents or abilities. There is no counter to immobilizing effects other than the 2 minute cool down. This change would in no way give light armor classes a free win. Line of sight and other tactics will still be key in survival against other classes, but it would at least provide a chance to survive.

 

Wrong. You can't do anything but your 2 min abilities for real CC, i.e. those that remove control of your character.

 

Snares and roots can be dispelled, and they can be negated by any abilities which removes movement impairing effect, such as the AP powertech's sprint (I don't remember hte name of the talent) or the Tank Assassin's talented Speed.

 

It also allows you to use other abilities, such as saber throw, rapid shots, force lightning. That's hwy it's not considered true crowd control by the developper, but another tool in the ranged vs melee fight.

Edited July 16, 2012 by lpsmash

[PatrickCMaher]

It just amazes me that after almost 20 years of MMOs with PvP that game designers haven't yet figured out that CC pisses people off.

 

I think resolve is a great system but needs some tweaks. No one ever wants to sit there and watch their toon get destroyed while being able to do nothing.

[LenrocNewDawn]

If devs would put roots on resolve they would ruin several classes and make Huttball unplayable. It would be like a rugby player scoring with 3-4 opponent hanging on his feet. There may be some specs that have too many roots available but those should be addressed in particular not with such a big change as roots/snares on resolve.

[Dmasterr]

It just amazes me that after almost 20 years of MMOs with PvP that game designers haven't yet figured out that CC pisses people off.

 

I think those people should stick to PvE.

 

"It just amazes me that after almost 20 years of MMOs with PvP that "players" haven't yet figured out that CC is a very important part of PvP."

[mulzii]

an easy adjustment to this whole resolve issue is to put the cc-break that every class has on a 10 second cooldown. That, or make the cc-break give 10 seconds of cc immunity (including roots/snares) after being used. this change wouldnt affect PVE much, if at all either.

 

With the amount of cc in this game, a 2 minute cooldown on the cc-breaker is just insulting.

Edited July 16, 2012 by mulzii