Why can't I just buy my gear with real money?

[Saurakk]

I am setting up a new service for people like the OP.

 

Just pick a game, any game. Send me $100 and I will print you up a nice "I beat <random game>!" certificate to place on your wall.

 

No playing needed!

[chimunga]

2) Gaming answer - In real life money can give you an advantage at every single possible thing. People play games to get away from real life. If the people with all the advantages in real life can simply bring them in to a game then most of the people here would simply leave.

Basically it is the equivilant of "I'm out of money in Monopoly so why can't I just buy some more money with real life moeney and keep playing?", because it takes away the entire point of the game.

Isn't it fair that there is at least one thing left in life where more money doesn't give you an unfair adavantage?

Sadly the real world is already pay to win, must it really be the same with video games?! You know that a lot of people play to get away from the capitalist BS for a few hours a day, right? (Not saying that I can think of another society model that would actually work at this time, but capitalism inherently produces huge amounts of inequality in terms of chances.)

 

^Valid argument

 

If you don't have the time to earn the gear then you obviously don't have a need for the gear. The only reason to improve your gear is to spend TIME using your gear on even harder content. The people that argue for pay to win just want to stand on fleet pretending they've done something in the game other than standing on the fleet.

My only question is: what do you need the gear for if you aren't doing the content that requires it?

 

^Nother valid argument

Edited July 16, 2012 by chimunga

[Datku]

Battlemaster will get you in most hard FP groups and some hard ops if you know the people

 

See this is kind of BS to me. Prior to 1.2 PvP gear worked in PvE, and PvE gear worked in PvP because expertise was a joke. 1.2 they inflated expertise to the point where PvE gear is useless in PvP. Good some will say...you shouldn't PvP with PvE gear anyways. Well then you shouldn't be able to PvE with PvP gear either.

 

You have the PvPer's crying that PvE gear shouldn't work in PvP because not everyone wants to raid. Well again same argument back at you. Not everyone wants to PvP all the time maybe a game here or there for fun but if you try to PvP with PvE gear you will get so ticked off you will never PvP again. Heck Bio tried to "help" out by giving away full recruit gear so even PvE players could have some PvP gear but the difference between recruit and even Battlemaster is like trying to wear greens in a Hard Mode. Just doesn't work. Yet PvPer's can take their gear and run HM and even OP's without much issue. Full Rakata PvE gear gets owned by even a recruit geared PvP player now. Heck even Top PvE gear like Black hole/ Campaign is useless in PvP, but again mid level PvP gear can be used for all PvE content short of EC (Denova).

 

If PvPer's and Bioware want to make PvE gear useless in PvP like it is now...then PvP gear should be useless in PvE. PvP gear shouldn't even be good enough to run normal mode Flashpoints let alone HM's and Ops.

[utio]

I do see a problem in allowing someone to buy with real life money. The way it is you only have to pay for the game and not go into anything else. Some people will take their real life money to buy stuff like gear, etc and that money was suppose to be use for food, kids, etc. There it becomes a very big problem and one I would think no one would want to have happen. Yes for the most part sensibile people would not do this but unfortunely there are some that want what everyone else has and this is an easy way for them and they don't stop and realize they are taking money that shoul be used for something more important.

You could use this arguement for anything though. What people do with there money is there own responsibility, and if they choose to spend it on something at the expense of something like food is their problem, frankly.

Go down the road of a nanny state and where would it end? Remove all alcohol to stop people abusing drink? Ban all gambling to stop people going bankrupt through being addicted to gambling?

[utio]

That is the problem. Once people are able to buy gear, that will ruin it for a lot of other people and then they won't be enjoying themselves anymore.

 

How does it ruin it for others though? How does their enjoyment stop?

[ZirusZero]

NO. Get out of here. This is a subscription, not P2W! Edited July 16, 2012 by ZirusZero

[Qarran]

I understand OP. I face similar challenges with time and other responsibilities but I love this game. However, I don't think that a cash shop is the answer.

 

Basically, you feel like you are missing out because you can't progress as fast as others. And maybe the grind to get the gear to play the content your are really interested in hardly seems worth it given your time constraints. But why hurry? You may not have a lot of time to play daily but there is no timeline to complete anything either.

 

So take your time. Yes, it will take longer to get the gear and content you want but it is well worth it. And you will have a greater sense of satisfaction and appreciate the game more then buying your way in as it were. Many rush to cap, a rush to complete OPs and HMs etc. etc. and are left twitling their thumbs after that.

 

No need for a cash shop, just take your time. You will get much more out of the experience. At least that's how it works for me.

[Saurakk]

How does it ruin it for others though? How does their enjoyment stop?

 

People hate analogies but here is one to answer your question.

 

People are proud of their achievements. People like to be rewarded in various ways for those achievements.

 

In a MMOG that is through UNIQUE and DIFFICULT to attain rewards. Such as titles, equipment, mounts, etc.

 

If everyone has them...there is no uniqueness or special reward.

 

In the spirit of the season, I will use the Olympics. They train for years for their chance at the medals. They win gold for being the best. How much would it detract from their successes if anyone could go to the Goldmedal.com website and simply by the Olympics medals and wear them around.

 

Call it petty, call it insecure, disagree or agree...it is the same basic concept.

 

EARNING a reward through efforts that may be unattainable or difficult for others to get.

 

I mean...I dont have time to train every day in the shot put...its not fair those others can and have the chance to get a medal. Let me just buy mine!

[lafr]

Life is made of choices. If you really love this game you will play until you get your gear, even if it takes months. It's called dedication.

 

If you feel bad seeing others gearing up faster than you, probably you would take a shortcut like bribing the developers.

Edited July 16, 2012 by lafr

[ViciousFett]

Not sure if OP is troll'n...

[Qarran]

Not sure if OP is troll'n...

 

Don't think so... I mean, I understand his concern as I have a similar situation. But, really, it's not inconvinient for me to take a little longer to get what I want out of this game. After all, I'm still playing and still getting a great deal out of the journey.

 

It's not an invalid argument, but it is a matter of perspective.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Qarran

[kitsinni]

This is probably the MMO where you have to put in the least amount of time. If you don't have the time to actually play this game then why do you even need that gear?

 

Has it not occured to anyone else that if you don't have the time to play this game then this game might not be the game for you? Isn't that what Facebook and Iphone games are for?

[Koconutt]

OP here, back from the dead!

 

Interesting, very interesting. I think that I may have underestimated how seriously many people take the game. Personally, I cannot see how one can realistically compare the sense of achievement of competing at the Olympics or winning the Super Bowl with grinding gear in this game. That is extrapolation in the extreme. For me, it's just a game and nothing more. If you do well (however you classify that), then well done, but let's keep things in context.

 

Perhaps the issue is the perceived inequality that my view presents. But don't panic! It's just a view. However, I still haven't read a convincing reason why players should not be allowed to buy gear (barring of course the fact that it is not allowed as the current game rules stand). Lots of sweeping statements, yes, but no causal link between how I may like to play and the direct dimunition of others' enjoyment. I could understand the position better, if for example paying money would entitle you to medical care at another's expense, but not in the context of a video game.

 

For the avoidance of doubt and as a couple of replies suggest, I am not interested in acquiring gear to show off by hanging around parts of the space station. At the risk of sounding disingenuous, I think at that point I would need to re-examine my whole life from scratch.

[Kubernetic]

I've bought the game and paid for my subs, just as the rest of you have. I now find that this game (like many other mmorpgs) all but locks you out of the high end content unless you have silly amounts of time to spend getting the ridiculous gear that imbalances pretty much everything. In these games gear is everything, with perhaps a little sprinkling of co-ordination of one's keyboard fingers.

 

I work hard and have young kids, meaning that I'm lucky to get on once or twice each week. There is no chance of me getting my pvp kit to play at a fair level or join operations. I have one 50th level character. At the exponential rate of gear-upping (if that term should exist), I will simply never be able to take part in aspects of the game I already pay for.

 

So why can't I just pay Bioware, or EA or whoever money to furnish my character with the required gear? I have some money but little time.

 

The usual argument against this is for players to be rewarded for the time they put into the game. They already do and I have no problem with that - the usual rewards through the usual channels will always be there. But for the remainder like me, why not let us purchase what we need to at least participate in the end game stuff? The players that spend time will still be rewarded by having heavier wallets!

 

I know many will be against buying your way to gear (and eventual success?), but it's the same in real life. For example, if I wash my clothes I don't first mine minerals, refine them and then design and construct a washing machine. I go and buy one as I do not possess the technical know-how or have the time to do otherwise. Why is this game any different? Money exists to allow people to acquire goods and services that you do not know how to provide and/or have the time to provide.

 

Also, selling gear through official channels would stamp out (or at least impact) the farmers you can look up on any internet search. The market is there, just no one wants to admit it.

 

As I understand it, the game is for fun and, in my eyes, not another set of burning hoops that I need to jump through to get my money's worth through my subs.

 

Let me just buy my gear!

 

There's a game out there waiting for you... it's called Entropia Universe, and it's a completely Real Cash Economy... all game currency is purchased with real dollars, at a $1 USD = 10.00 PED exchange rate.

 

Getting a set of the best armor in the game will probably cost you upwards of around $10,000-$15,000 and you will be in uber standing amongst the other players, at least, you will be, once you purchase about $30,000-$50,000 worth of skill chips to try to catch up to the more seasoned players like Buzz and Star.

 

But hey, after spending $75,000 on your gear, you will be in primo shape to dominate!

 

Good luck.

[Tsillah]

How does it ruin it for others though? How does their enjoyment stop?

 

First of all. If you can buy max gear in a game where acquiring the gear is the main goal of the game, you invalidate the efforts people have made or will make in that game. It just makes no sense to just put a simple money value on what is considered to be the prime achievement of the whole game. It makes doing anything in endgame pointless because it's the goal of endgame to acquire better gear.

 

Secondly there are some additional consequences of doing this. It also devaluates all gear progression, meaning that not just the max gear is devaluated but also every other tier before it becomes completely and utterly inconsequential. With that, since many people will be able to afford to buy the top gear from a financial point of view, they will do so, for fear of being left behind. As I posted earlier in this thread, people will make it a requirement to have top gear or you cannot join their party or guild, basically isolating people who barely can afford the monthly sub. It will in fact encourage class division inside the game.

 

If this doesn't take the fun out of the game, then I don't know what will.

 

People will start quitting because playing more hours is no longer rewarded at all and the division between players of different financial backgrounds will split the community irreparably, causing more people to quit. It's just a bad idea for the game in general.

[Knockerz]

Honestly, it isn't that bad to acquire gear in this game compared to other games. It's been months. You should have at least one character by now geared out in raid or pvp gear. If you haven't, then that means you been rerolling a lot, leveling too many alts, or you haven't been interested in raiding/pvping. As for paying to get gear only in a pay to play game are you allowed to buy gear with real money. Otherwise, normal mmorpg don't allow you to buy gear with real life money. Edited July 16, 2012 by Knockerz

[islander]

I've bought the game and paid for my subs, just as the rest of you have. I now find that this game (like many other mmorpgs) all but locks you out of the high end content unless you have silly amounts of time to spend getting the ridiculous gear that imbalances pretty much everything. In these games gear is everything, with perhaps a little sprinkling of co-ordination of one's keyboard fingers.

 

I work hard and have young kids, meaning that I'm lucky to get on once or twice each week. There is no chance of me getting my pvp kit to play at a fair level or join operations. I have one 50th level character. At the exponential rate of gear-upping (if that term should exist), I will simply never be able to take part in aspects of the game I already pay for.

 

So why can't I just pay Bioware, or EA or whoever money to furnish my character with the required gear? I have some money but little time.

 

The usual argument against this is for players to be rewarded for the time they put into the game. They already do and I have no problem with that - the usual rewards through the usual channels will always be there. But for the remainder like me, why not let us purchase what we need to at least participate in the end game stuff? The players that spend time will still be rewarded by having heavier wallets!

 

I know many will be against buying your way to gear (and eventual success?), but it's the same in real life. For example, if I wash my clothes I don't first mine minerals, refine them and then design and construct a washing machine. I go and buy one as I do not possess the technical know-how or have the time to do otherwise. Why is this game any different? Money exists to allow people to acquire goods and services that you do not know how to provide and/or have the time to provide.

 

Also, selling gear through official channels would stamp out (or at least impact) the farmers you can look up on any internet search. The market is there, just no one wants to admit it.

 

As I understand it, the game is for fun and, in my eyes, not another set of burning hoops that I need to jump through to get my money's worth through my subs.

 

Let me just buy my gear!

 

2/10 too obvious.

[MasterKayote]

OP here, back from the dead!

 

Interesting, very interesting. I think that I may have underestimated how seriously many people take the game. Personally, I cannot see how one can realistically compare the sense of achievement of competing at the Olympics or winning the Super Bowl with grinding gear in this game. That is extrapolation in the extreme. For me, it's just a game and nothing more. If you do well (however you classify that), then well done, but let's keep things in context.

 

Perhaps the issue is the perceived inequality that my view presents. But don't panic! It's just a view. However, I still haven't read a convincing reason why players should not be allowed to buy gear (barring of course the fact that it is not allowed as the current game rules stand). Lots of sweeping statements, yes, but no causal link between how I may like to play and the direct dimunition of others' enjoyment. I could understand the position better, if for example paying money would entitle you to medical care at another's expense, but not in the context of a video game.

 

For the avoidance of doubt and as a couple of replies suggest, I am not interested in acquiring gear to show off by hanging around parts of the space station. At the risk of sounding disingenuous, I think at that point I would need to re-examine my whole life from scratch.

 

And you havent answered why you would even need the gear you want to buy if you do not have the time to play anything required to attain it. Seriously, how much time do you actually have? Even if you only had an hour, a few days a week, you are able to get good gear. Even raid gear ... it takes a week for a raid to reset, you can kill one or two bosses today then two the next. You can get BH by running Torvix and a simple HM a day. Columi drops off varying HM FP's. There is no excuse going for you. You just want to get everything for nothing.

 

FYI, If you can buy gear, so can everyone else, which completely devalues the entire goal of attaining it. Thats the problem, its not centered around you.

 

Furthermore I find it odd that you seem to be talking down to us for "taking the game too seriously" when you yourself are willing to pay extra cash to buy gear you hardly have a need for.

[CosmicKat]

OP here, back from the dead!

 

Interesting, very interesting. I think that I may have underestimated how seriously many people take the game. Personally, I cannot see how one can realistically compare the sense of achievement of competing at the Olympics or winning the Super Bowl with grinding gear in this game. That is extrapolation in the extreme. For me, it's just a game and nothing more. If you do well (however you classify that), then well done, but let's keep things in context.

 

Perhaps the issue is the perceived inequality that my view presents. But don't panic! It's just a view. However, I still haven't read a convincing reason why players should not be allowed to buy gear (barring of course the fact that it is not allowed as the current game rules stand). Lots of sweeping statements, yes, but no causal link between how I may like to play and the direct dimunition of others' enjoyment. I could understand the position better, if for example paying money would entitle you to medical care at another's expense, but not in the context of a video game.

 

For the avoidance of doubt and as a couple of replies suggest, I am not interested in acquiring gear to show off by hanging around parts of the space station. At the risk of sounding disingenuous, I think at that point I would need to re-examine my whole life from scratch.

 

The game, any game, only survives on the illusion of "competition", it is a game after all, not a movie. There has to be some risk or effort involved to "win", otherwise you take the game out of the game. The risk and effort in TOR is negligible but it is still there. Gear is a 'trophy' and if someone can just go out an buy that trophy with zero effort, it dimishes the trophy for anyone who earned it.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less how someone else gets their gear but to allow pay-to-win gaming would kill this game, or any game.

[MrSchmo]

OP here, back from the dead!

 

Interesting, very interesting. I think that I may have underestimated how seriously many people take the game. Personally, I cannot see how one can realistically compare the sense of achievement of competing at the Olympics or winning the Super Bowl with grinding gear in this game. That is extrapolation in the extreme. For me, it's just a game and nothing more. If you do well (however you classify that), then well done, but let's keep things in context.

 

Perhaps the issue is the perceived inequality that my view presents. But don't panic! It's just a view. However, I still haven't read a convincing reason why players should not be allowed to buy gear (barring of course the fact that it is not allowed as the current game rules stand). Lots of sweeping statements, yes, but no causal link between how I may like to play and the direct dimunition of others' enjoyment. I could understand the position better, if for example paying money would entitle you to medical care at another's expense, but not in the context of a video game.

 

For the avoidance of doubt and as a couple of replies suggest, I am not interested in acquiring gear to show off by hanging around parts of the space station. At the risk of sounding disingenuous, I think at that point I would need to re-examine my whole life from scratch.

It honestly has nothing to do with time played, or I want you to play as long as I do to earn gear. It has everything to do with keeping the the guy with the fattest wallet from having the advantage. Real money should never be a deciding factor in games.

[Tawnos]

Gear in a MMO is more than just the barrier to higher content. It's a trophy. It says "look at what I've accomplished with my own two hands".

 

If you don't see why allowing players to buy their trophies rather than earn them is a bad idea, well.....I guess I feel sorry for you. Because some of the best times I've ever had on MMOs are when my guild finally makes that progression kill we've been working on for a month and parading around <insert capital city of choice> on my brand new <super epic mount> wearing <super epic gear>. Sure, maybe no one else really cares; but dammit, the adrenaline and feeling of satisfaction of a job well done makes it all worth it.

 

If you could buy all those super epic trophies, you then rob the people who enjoy earning those trophies of that feeling of accomplishment.

 

I'm sorry you don't have time to do end game content, but you made a commitment to your family (which I applaud). That means making sacrifices.

[vandana_]

OP here, back from the dead!

 

Interesting, very interesting. I think that I may have underestimated how seriously many people take the game. Personally, I cannot see how one can realistically compare the sense of achievement of competing at the Olympics or winning the Super Bowl with grinding gear in this game. That is extrapolation in the extreme. For me, it's just a game and nothing more. If you do well (however you classify that), then well done, but let's keep things in context.

 

Perhaps the issue is the perceived inequality that my view presents. But don't panic! It's just a view. However, I still haven't read a convincing reason why players should not be allowed to buy gear (barring of course the fact that it is not allowed as the current game rules stand). Lots of sweeping statements, yes, but no causal link between how I may like to play and the direct dimunition of others' enjoyment. I could understand the position better, if for example paying money would entitle you to medical care at another's expense, but not in the context of a video game.

 

For the avoidance of doubt and as a couple of replies suggest, I am not interested in acquiring gear to show off by hanging around parts of the space station. At the risk of sounding disingenuous, I think at that point I would need to re-examine my whole life from scratch.

 

You are getting trolled with this all thread people

Edited July 16, 2012 by vandana_

[kitsinni]

You are getting trolled with this all thread people.

 

Yea I know it is just that boring at work today.

[Nolenthar]

@ OP, you have misconception about this game.

 

With the new group finder, you can easily gear yourself up good enough using twice 1 hour a week (which is, we all admit, certainly is not too much even for your situation).

 

The fun is in playing the game, isn't it ?

[utio]

First of all. If you can buy max gear in a game where acquiring the gear is the main goal of the game, you invalidate the efforts people have made or will make in that game. It just makes no sense to just put a simple money value on what is considered to be the prime achievement of the whole game. It makes doing anything in endgame pointless because it's the goal of endgame to acquire better gear.

 

Secondly there are some additional consequences of doing this. It also devaluates all gear progression, meaning that not just the max gear is devaluated but also every other tier before it becomes completely and utterly inconsequential. With that, since many people will be able to afford to buy the top gear from a financial point of view, they will do so, for fear of being left behind. As I posted earlier in this thread, people will make it a requirement to have top gear or you cannot join their party or guild, basically isolating people who barely can afford the monthly sub. It will in fact encourage class division inside the game.

 

If this doesn't take the fun out of the game, then I don't know what will.

 

People will start quitting because playing more hours is no longer rewarded at all and the division between players of different financial backgrounds will split the community irreparably, causing more people to quit. It's just a bad idea for the game in general.

 

It invalidates nothing. If people feel that they're enjoyment of the game is based on how other players get items, then I have to ask wether they're playing for the right reasons. Is the main goal of this game acquiring end level gear really? I would say not, the aim of the game is to have fun. People get too hung up on stuff, that's all it is, just digital clothes. So I would have to respectfully disagree with your first point. And based on the fact that a good percentage of players do not raid, I would imagine I'm not alone in thinking endgame is not the goal in swtor.

 

As for your second point, I'm not sure how buying endgame gear devalues gear you need to level in. That doesn't make sense to me. As for putting pressure on people to buy gear to get into guilds, or group, there is already that pressure. We see people asking for a gear checker in the group finder system. There would be no difference.

 

As for people quitting over it, I don't get why. They can get the gear, so why quit because someone else got it differently.

 

I guess I've got a different outlook on life, I play games to have fun, and I've got no problem with other players getting stuff through other means. It's simply not a big deal to me.

Edited July 16, 2012 by utio