Stunned...full resolve...rooted...rooted...rooted...no resolve...stunned...

[TUXs]

Resolve is plus on effects that cause loss of control and subtract over time.

 

All stuns add 200 Resolve per second of duration.

All mezzes add 100 Resolve per second of duration.

All knockbacks, pushes, pulls, and knockdowns add 400 Resolve per event.

Any amount added to your current Resolve that causes your total Resolve to exceed 1000 receives a 50% bonus.

 

While Grey/Purple - Resolve decays at a rate of 25 per second while NOT under the effect of CC.

While White - Resolve decays at a rate of 100 per second at all times.

 

It is actually a fairly simple math function.

Roots?! What do they add?! Nothing?! You can't profess that it's 'easy math', then skip the parts that don't make sense, just to prove your point. That's being very disingenuous.

 

It's not 'convenient', nor is it easy to understand except by those who want to pretend it's some brilliant flippin system. It's not! It's simply Bioware not realizing how many CC's they have, nor do they appear to understand how their own system can be used to completely prevent someone from doing anything between spawn/kill. I'm not surprised though - they probably watch how CC works via their magical 'metrics', rather than actually experiencing the effects of their oversights first hand.

[PuntaSur]

The abusive amount of snares and roots in this game make it feel like running waist deep in thick mud ALL the time, on any class. Whether the resolve bar is working as intended or not, there is nothing as frustrating as being slowed for 90% of a PVP battle.

 

OK, the only thing worse than that is being locked down unable to use any skill and dying, only to see a full resolve bar ticking down at the respawn.

Edited July 16, 2012 by PuntaSur

[Darth_Philar]

Roots?! What do they add?! Nothing?! You can't profess that it's 'easy math', then skip the parts that don't make sense, just to prove your point. That's being very disingenuous.

 

It's not 'convenient', nor is it easy to understand except by those who want to pretend it's some brilliant flippin system. It's not! It's simply Bioware not realizing how many CC's they have, nor do they appear to understand how their own system can be used to completely prevent someone from doing anything between spawn/kill. I'm not surprised though - they probably watch how CC works via their magical 'metrics', rather than actually experiencing the effects of their oversights first hand.

 

I'm not sure if you are being serious or are trolling me... I skipped nothing. All Resolve Effects with their mathematically provable Resolve Values were presented.

[NICKjnp]

Resolve is the least of my worries in this game. I think it is good so that you don't have a entire team of sages/sorcerers simply holding everyone in place. Concerns I have are that those abilities that are most dependent on cc (sages/sorcerers) don't put out enough regular dps at the moment. So roots can sometimes be all they can do right now. If roots are added to the resolve immunity then I would only hope that sage/sorcerer dps would be greatly increased.

[TUXs]

I'm not sure if you are being serious or are trolling me... I skipped nothing. All Resolve Effects with their mathematically provable Resolve Values were presented.

 

No no no...you claimed that resolve was simple math, as easy to figure out as the health bar. Your exact quote was "Resolve is just addition and subtraction. It works much the same same way your health bar or resource bar does." As I pointed out, the health bar is +/- on heal/damage, the same can NOT be said for Resolve. It's NOT +/- on CC effects. Roots and snares ARE CC's. You can't ignore them just to prove your point.

 

Yes, Bioware skips them in their system, but that doesn't make Bioware right. Yes, you've pointed out that it's their game and their 'system' to define what they want, but they do not have the ability to redefine CC, even if it's their freaking game. Their rules are what we agree to play under, but a poorly designed system and misleading terminology CAN and SHOULD be pointed out to them. Their desire to redefine what CC means, is the root (no pun intended) of the problem.

[Darth_Philar]

No no no...you claimed that resolve was simple math, as easy to figure out as the health bar. Your exact quote was "Resolve is just addition and subtraction. It works much the same same way your health bar or resource bar does." As I pointed out, the health bar is +/- on heal/damage, the same can NOT be said for Resolve. It's NOT +/- on CC effects. Roots and snares ARE CC's. You can't ignore them just to prove your point.

 

Yes, Bioware skips them in their system, but that doesn't make Bioware right. Yes, you've pointed out that it's their game and their 'system' to define what they want, but they do not have the ability to redefine CC, even if it's their freaking game. Their rules are what we agree to play under, but a poorly designed system and misleading terminology CAN and SHOULD be pointed out to them. Their desire to redefine what CC means, is the root (no pun intended) of the problem.

 

Roots and snares ARE NOT CCs.

Why?

Because Bioware says so.

This is their game, what they say is and is not CC is what is and is not CC in their game. We must use their definition when discussing game mechanics or else we aren't discussing their game.

 

We can discuss whether Bioware should change their mind and reclassify things, but the fact of the matter is that Roots and Snares don't count as CC in SWTOR because Bioware says they don't.

 

Additionally, even if I were to concede to your definition instead of Bioware's that would still not make my point wrong. Resolve is still a simple mathematical function that works exactly as I described. The fact that some effects add 0 Resolve and ignore CC immunity do not change the functionality of Resolve.

[MbaxterBeau]

Stick to the topic? Speak for yourself, talking about WZ bugs like OPS chat and respawn bugs is not what this thread is about.

 

I will insult people who QQ all day on the forums about Reolve being broken when it isnt.

 

Any insult from you and players that behave the way do and communicate to other players the way in which you choose is a compliment. Please continue with them.

[PuntaSur]

Roots and snares ARE NOT CCs.

Why?

Because Bioware says so.

This is their game, what they say is and is not CC is what is and is not CC in their game. We must use their definition when discussing game mechanics or else we aren't discussing their game.

 

I see where you are going with this, and my following comments are not directed at you but at this topic at hand of the "definition of CC (crowd control)":

 

Excuse me, but the term "CC" or "Crowd Control" has been around long before SWTOR. Bioware doesn't get to redefine what crowd control is. If a person is snared, rooted, mezzed, stunned, knocked back, held in the air, choked, transformed into a sheep, frog, pig, monkey, turtle, cupcake, sparkle farting panda mount or other, it is indeed a "crowd control" mechanism.

 

Now if they want to apply an immunity system to stuns/mezzes, like the resolve system, and exclude certain crowd control features like roots and snares from that system, then that is a whole other talking point. Which is what we are really dealing with here.

[MbaxterBeau]

Roots and snares ARE NOT CCs.

Why?

Because Bioware says so.

This is their game, what they say is and is not CC is what is and is not CC in their game. We must use their definition when discussing game mechanics or else we aren't discussing their game.

 

We can discuss whether Bioware should change their mind and reclassify things, but the fact of the matter is that Roots and Snares don't count as CC in SWTOR because Bioware says they don't.

 

Additionally, even if I were to concede to your definition instead of Bioware's that would still not make my point wrong. Resolve is still a simple mathematical function that works exactly as I described. The fact that some effects add 0 Resolve and ignore CC immunity do not change the functionality of Resolve.

 

It works sometimes kind of like how ops frames in pvp work sometimes. Yes this is bioware's game and they can keep the mindset that the players opinions don't matter in how they manage the game and then you'll have a server all to yourself like has happened to many others that share your opinion.

 

I'm about to go to Starbucks in a few so when they ask me " what would you like?" I'll respond "whatever Bioware would want e to order". Lolz........

[MbaxterBeau]

No no no...you claimed that resolve was simple math, as easy to figure out as the health bar. Your exact quote was "Resolve is just addition and subtraction. It works much the same same way your health bar or resource bar does." As I pointed out, the health bar is +/- on heal/damage, the same can NOT be said for Resolve. It's NOT +/- on CC effects. Roots and snares ARE CC's. You can't ignore them just to prove your point.

 

Yes, Bioware skips them in their system, but that doesn't make Bioware right. Yes, you've pointed out that it's their game and their 'system' to define what they want, but they do not have the ability to redefine CC, even if it's their freaking game. Their rules are what we agree to play under, but a poorly designed system and misleading terminology CAN and SHOULD be pointed out to them. Their desire to redefine what CC means, is the root (no pun intended) of the problem.

 

^ ^ this is so awesome

[Darth_Philar]

I see where you are going with this, and my following comments are not directed at you but at this topic at hand of the "definition of CC (crowd control)":

 

Excuse me, but the term "CC" or "Crowd Control" has been around long before SWTOR. Bioware doesn't get to redefine what crowd control is. If a person is snared, rooted, mezzed, stunned, knocked back, held in the air, choked, transformed into a sheep, frog, pig, monkey, turtle, cupcake, sparkle farting panda mount or other, it is indeed a "crowd control" mechanism.

 

Now if they want to apply an immunity system to stuns/mezzes, like the resolve system, and exclude certain crowd control features like roots and snares from that system, then that is a whole other talking point. Which is what we are really dealing with here.

 

Allow me to explain how definitions work from a legal perspective.

Contracts have a leading section known as "Definitions". Whatever those definitions are is what will be used throughout the remainder of the legal document regardless of what their normal usage is. For example, if my contract states:

"Octopus" - A member of the Canine family

Then the use of the word Octopus refers to dogs, not actual Octopi.

 

The exact same concept applies here. "CC" is defined by Bioware for purposes of their game. Regardless of what every other person on the planet considers to be CC, if an effect does not meet the definition set by Bioware, it is not CC.

 

If it helps you out, we can insert more terminology to help you distinguish Resolve Effects ("RE") from Non-Resolve Effects ("NRE").

[MbaxterBeau]

Allow me to explain how definitions work from a legal perspective.

Contracts have a leading section known as "Definitions". Whatever those definitions are is what will be used throughout the remainder of the legal document regardless of what their normal usage is. For example, if my contract states:

"Octopus" - A member of the Canine family

Then the use of the word Octopus refers to dogs, not actual Octopi.

 

The exact same concept applies here. "CC" is defined by Bioware for purposes of their game. Regardless of what every other person on the planet considers to be CC, if an effect does not meet the definition set by Bioware, it is not CC.

 

If it helps you out, we can insert more terminology to help you distinguish Resolve Effects ("RE") from Non-Resolve Effects ("NRE").

 

Are you a lawyer when you aren't winning countless pvp matches while looking at your full resolve bar with a grin?

[TUXs]

Roots and snares ARE NOT CCs.

Why?

Because Bioware says so.

No lol. That's just silly. CC isn't a term Bioware can redefine, just like they can't redefine RP or PvE or PvP or RvR...those aren't their terms to redefine.

 

CC has a definition already and roots are CC's. Bioware can use it, or they can ignore it...It's clear they either don't know what it's means or they are ignoring it, either way, that doesn't mean people like you can argue that the term has suddenly changed definitions, just because Bioware said so. CC means exactly the same thing today that it did 1yr ago.

 

Bioware is using it wrong, and you do more harm than good to the game by defending them. CC's are not theirs to redefine. Roots ARE CC's.

[Darth_Philar]

Are you a lawyer when you aren't winning countless pvp matches while looking at your full resolve bar with a grin?

 

Contracts are not the exclusive domain of lawyers... in fact, nearly every adult who lives in a modern country has signed (and should therefore have read the provisions of) a contract.

 

No lol. That's just silly. CC isn't a term Bioware can redefine, just like they can't redefine RP or PvE or PvP or RvR...those aren't their terms to redefine.

 

CC has a definition already and roots are CC's. Bioware can use it, or they can ignore it...It's clear they either don't know what it's means or they are ignoring it, either way, that doesn't mean people like you can argue that the term has suddenly changed definitions, just because Bioware said so. CC means exactly the same thing today that it did 1yr ago.

 

Bioware is using it wrong, and you do more harm than good to the game by defending them. CC's are not theirs to redefine. Roots ARE CC's.

 

Please refer to my post above. Bioware can define words any way they want. You accept that definition when you pay them to play.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[TUXs]

Allow me to explain how definitions work from a legal perspective.

LMAO!!!!

 

Lemme explain how definitions work from a PRACTICAL perspective.

 

Words have MEANINGS! In order to understand ANYTHING, we accept that certain terms mean, without further clarification, certain and common things. If I ask for a 'glass', I can expect a 'cup' made of glass, plastic, styrofoam or some other disposable material.

 

CC = crowd control. Crowd control includes roots and snares.

[Darth_Philar]

LMAO!!!!

 

Lemme explain how definitions work from a PRACTICAL perspective.

 

Words have MEANINGS! In order to understand ANYTHING, we accept that certain terms mean, without further clarification, certain and common things. If I ask for a 'glass', I can expect a 'cup' made of glass, plastic, styrofoam or some other disposable material.

 

CC = crowd control. Crowd control includes roots and snares.

 

The meaning of any given word is assumed to be the denotative meaning, unless a connotative meaning is confirmed to be in effect.

 

In this particular case, Bioware has confirmed that a connotative meaning is in effect making the denotative meaning of CC 100% irrelevent when discussing the mechanics of their game.

[MbaxterBeau]

Contracts are not the exclusive domain of lawyers... in fact, nearly every adult who lives in a modern country has signed (and should therefore have read the provisions of) a contract.

 

 

 

Please refer to my post above. Bioware can define words any way they want. You accept that definition when you pay them to play.

 

Yes but in this contract you can cancel it ASAP if you aren't happy That's also in the fine print

[TUXs]

The meaning of any given word is assumed to be the denotative meaning, unless a connotative meaning is confirmed to be in effect.

 

In this particular case, Bioware has confirmed that a connotative meaning is in effect making the denotative meaning of CC 100% irrelevent when discussing the mechanics of their game.

 

Whoa...what's the rating of this game?! I thought it was Teen, but you make it sound like it's Bachelors Degree and better.

 

Please link where Bioware claims a new definition of CC...I can't find it.

[Darth_Philar]

Whoa...what's the rating of this game?! I thought it was Teen, but you make it sound like it's Bachelors Degree and better.

 

Please link where Bioware claims a new definition of CC...I can't find it.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4823247#edit4823247

[DrElementary]

To be fair, they didn't redefine the meaning of "CC" in that post...Peckenpagh never used that general term, because resolve only effects stuns and knockbacks, not roots and snares (like it's been since the start). Resolve is only meant to stop a narrowly defined subset of the huge "CC" category, and if you haven't figured that out yet then you are being willfully ignorant.

Although I do wish resolve did something for, say, the root caused by a jedi leap, it doesn't, and they're not saying it does.

[PuntaSur]

Allow me to explain how definitions work from a legal perspective.

Contracts have a leading section known as "Definitions". Whatever those definitions are is what will be used throughout the remainder of the legal document regardless of what their normal usage is. For example, if my contract states:

"Octopus" - A member of the Canine family

Then the use of the word Octopus refers to dogs, not actual Octopi.

 

The exact same concept applies here. "CC" is defined by Bioware for purposes of their game. Regardless of what every other person on the planet considers to be CC, if an effect does not meet the definition set by Bioware, it is not CC.

 

If it helps you out, we can insert more terminology to help you distinguish Resolve Effects ("RE") from Non-Resolve Effects ("NRE").

 

The community of gaming for over a decade has provided the language definition of what "crowd control" is, and that definition has been adopted by the publishers of most games:

"The ability to limit the number of mobs actively fighting during an encounter. It can also refer to abilities that influence or prevent the abilities or actions of other character(s). Crowd control can be extremely powerful, controlling the possible outcomes of an encounter, as it forces opponents to use a smaller set of abilities/actions."

 

Types of crowd control include:

 

• Root - immobilizes character while allowing all other actions to occur
  
• Snare - lowers movement rates while allowing all other actions to occur
  
• Movement speed buffs
  
• Teleport - moves the CCer a distance away, usually further than could be reached by regular movement in the same time frame
  
• Knockback - teleports opponent(s) away from the CCer
  
• Levitate - allows CCer to use terrain advantages to line-of-sight or safely fall from a height in order to cover more ground than normally possible
  
• Direction changes - forces opponents to move in another direction, often resulting in tempo or distance gains for the CCer
  
• Fear/Stun/Mesmerize ("mez")/Charm - robust CC abilities that usually include other types of CC alongside one from the above list
  

source: wikipedia (although many other sources provide a similar definition)

 

Now, to your point, if Bioware wants to redefine the specific actions that can be affected, or unaffected, by a mechanism of immunity like Resolve, then that can be defined in their design and they may use whatever terminology they want. However, they will be measured, negatively or positively, in their use of this design and/or terminology against the common understanding of similar designs used by all publishers in the gaming landscape. If they are measured mostly negative in comparison, they will lose paying customers. Hence the reason for the comparative analysis and complaints found in most of the messages in this forum regarding their "resolve" system.

 

They may feel free to redefine well known elements all day long, but if they frustrate, alienate and irritate their customer base against the common grain and well established vernacular of the gaming industry, they won't have to worry about many more threads complaining and/or providing suggestions to improve said elements for very long.

Edited July 16, 2012 by PuntaSur

[TUXs]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4823247#edit4823247

 

Hmmm...not exactly what I was looking for, but thank you. That was him explaining how resolve works, not redefining CC, which is your main point in this thread, that they have somehow, somewhere, told everyone that THEIR 'CC' doesn't include roots...which is idiocy. That may be what you read in that post, but I see him just explaining how/why Resolve works the way it does, not redefining CC.

 

See, I don't think Bioware understands the issue tbh. I think they're ignorant of how many CC's they actually have right now and how abusive they can be, and how few add to resolve. The left hand just doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing at Bioware...this is a prime example imo. Decisions are being made from magical metrics vs. actual use.

[Darth_Philar]

To be fair, they didn't redefine the meaning of "CC" in that post...Peckenpagh never used that general term, because resolve only effects stuns and knockbacks, not roots and snares (like it's been since the start). Resolve is only meant to stop a narrowly defined subset of the huge "CC" category, and if you haven't figured that out yet then you are being willfully ignorant.

Although I do wish resolve did something for, say, the root caused by a jedi leap, it doesn't, and they're not saying it does.

 

Granted, what they defined was what effects are and are not Resolve Effects, which only indirectly defines CC within the context of their game. So like I said we can start using RE and NRE to describe Resolve Effects and Non-Resolve Effects if it makes discussion easier.

[LenrocNewDawn]

What words from the following phrase don't you understand "Root and Snares do not count towards RESOLVE"? CC or not this is the rule of law by the game creators. As simple as that. You don't like it? Fine, you get to state your opinion. Calling people, that adapted to the said system, names is not fine and it earns you no credit.

 

Will BW decide at a point that they need to add roots and snares to the resolve system? I don't care. I can adapt to that situation too, while you seem hopelessly entrenched in your ways. As a result all arguments about melee having increased DPS to compensate for their time wasted approaching their target thus the need for the ranged to kite effectively falls on deaf ears. Some fate have the arguments of some classes becoming unstoppable if roots/snares start counting towards resolve.

 

Just for the record, I strongly believe that the original post is just an exaggeration of an in-game event that annoyed its poster. Many more other posts across this thread are fictional or exaggerations of in-game events, littered with disinformation. Hard to have a respectful open debate under those circumstances .

 

Adapt and overcome if you can. If not come to the forums and QQ some more.

 

P.S. If all you can say as a reply is that you'll unsubscribe or w/e don't bother, I don't care!

[stickyaggro]

Its too late anyway, its obvious that they cant fix the CC situation without breaking the game, without breaking the combat. Decisions that were made a long time ago (to try to attract the wow people) is what got us this cc controlled gameplay. If they want something else, and save this game, they have to take a huge risk and start from scratch with the combat, remove the bigger part of the cc abilities completely and have a more fluid combat with more movement even in pve. And if they can pull it off they should try to have the combat something a little closer to tera (always free look, no target lock) than to wow, but without the horrible root during abilities that tera has. Not saying tera is a good game. But bioware should start from scratch with the combat in my opinion, because its such a waste of a good star wars game with the current combat, and the cc oriented gameplay.

 

The way it is now its just not fun when you are slowed all the time, even if it works for the type of gameplay they want. I understand the resolve system, and how to use it.

 

And also, bioware doesnt decide what CC is. Sure they can decide what type of CC that interacts with their resolve bar. But no they dont decide what CC is