FourTwent Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It is really hard to take folks seriously on this issue without a fraps video because of all the folks crying "wolf" who clearly don't know what they are talking about. This is the SAME reason why I so very rarely take the 'hacks in pvp' threads seriously either. People just have no clue whats going on in the game, they're just playing their character and when a stun doesn't go through they freak out without realizing their resolve bar was full. Or maybe they see their resolve bar full and then 5 minutes later expect to not be CC-able. It just baffles me. And they dont see what's going on, so they truly feel the system is broken and they're being cheated. Which is why you can't debate the issue with any of them. They just refuse to listen and swear the system is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) CC = Crowd Control Snares, Roots, kiting moves, gap closing moves = CC which = Crowd Control. Crowd Control means CC, Bioware version of CC is actually CC that isn't being named CC. Do any of you understand what CC is and has been for a long time. Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_(video_gaming) Do I need to explain that cc immunity should happen in a game where cc is going on, resolve should protect us from it but looks like Bioware don't want that. I understand thats what YOU feel should be considered CC and what YOU feel should be effected by resolve. But it's not made that way. YOU can cry all you want about the system but it's only going to make YOU look silly. Learn how to play the game and learn the mechanics and you'll have a lot more credibility on the forums. Or you can continue to cry about it and have everyone laugh at you. It's entertainment to me PS - I have a feeling that 50% of the people in this thread have NO idea that a snare or a root can be cleansed. . .and I bet that 90% of the people in game dont realize this either. Edited July 12, 2012 by FourTwent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) You guys have forced me to show you all the cc in the game from each class, once this is posted I would like all of you to think about what I have posted how resolve SHOULD work with each cc. Remember when reading this I am on our team, I am looking for explanations for the lack of responses on why cc in this game is not being taken serious. BH/Merc/Van/Troop, remember they are mirror so number of cc is the same. 1. Carbonize http://www.torhead.com/ability/aI8lmsH/carbonize 2. Concussion Missile http://www.torhead.com/ability/7J2uswp/concussion-missile 3. Grapple http://www.torhead.com/ability/hwCLZ3y/grapple 4. Electro Dart http://www.torhead.com/ability/9GX16Xs/electro-dart 5. (Advanced Prototype tree) Hamstring http://www.torhead.com/ability/9GX16Xs/electro-dart 6 ( Advanced Prototype tree) Prototype flamethrower http://www.torhead.com/ability/35M73pK/prototype-flame- thrower 7. (Shield Tech Powertech tree) No escape http://www.torhead.com/ability/dWIm1cZ/no-escape 8. Jet Charge http://www.torhead.com/ability/77kSuDn/jet-charge Alot of these moves come from prototype BH and Sheld Tech Bh, 8 moves from BH to Trooper has 8 impairing moment skills and skill tree dumps to provide a cc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assassin/Shadow/Sorc/Sage 1. Force Pull http://www.torhead.com/ability/8Be4RD1/force-pull 2. Wither http://www.torhead.com/ability/49pDsvl/wither 3. Low Slash http://www.torhead.com/ability/hnwIOeC/low-slash 4. Creeping Terror http://www.torhead.com/ability/bSEzqRg/creeping-terror 5. Force Slow http://www.torhead.com/ability/6isPPt4/force-slow 6. Electrocute http://www.torhead.com/ability/4HpLzfj/electrocute 7. Whirlwind http://www.torhead.com/ability/1CZXSjE/whirlwind 8. Force Lighting http://www.torhead.com/ability/a0biEva/force-lightning 9 Mind Trap http://www.torhead.com/ability/3nkh0sW/mind-trap 10. Overload http://www.torhead.com/ability/gV8Zo5R/overload ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Op/Scoundrel/Gs/Snipe 1. Sleep Dart http://www.torhead.com/ability/gWKHNkb/sleep-dart 2. Sever Tendon http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qtrwE1/sever-tendon 3. Cover Pulse http://www.torhead.com/ability/buhxjod/cover-pulse 4. Leg Shot http://www.torhead.com/ability/1KgmaGG/leg-shot 5. Deblitate http://www.torhead.com/ability/avfFa1u/debilitate 6. Plasma probe http://www.torhead.com/ability/5vKklsx/plasma-probe 7. Hidden Strike http://www.torhead.com/ability/eEqrPpt/hidden-strike 8. Heavy Shot http://www.torhead.com/ability/d6e3o13/heavy-shot 9. Adhesive corrosives http://www.torhead.com/ability/aigHXWY/adhesive-corrosives 10. Flash Bang http://www.torhead.com/ability/f5R2qsF/flash-bang 11. Inventive interrogation tchniques http://www.torhead.com/ability/dzYtqI/inventive-interrogation-techniques ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sith Warrior/Mar/Sent/Guardian 1. Intimidating Roar http://www.torhead.com/ability/3UOGXiK/intimidating-roar 2. Force Push http://www.torhead.com/ability/fhFgPVD/force-push 3. Crippling Slash http://www.torhead.com/ability/5GMTnHY/crippling-slash 4. Chilling Scream http://www.torhead.com/ability/7eLd3W2/chilling-scream 5. Back Hand http://www.torhead.com/ability/gGGAmYI/backhand 6. Force Choke http://www.torhead.com/ability/6DgjQ39/force-choke 7. Force Charge http://www.torhead.com/ability/6X4UAzp/force-charge 8. Deadly Throw http://www.torhead.com/ability/4j3I3Nd/deadly-throw -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grand Total of 37 skills/skill tree dumbs to provide CC in this game. That means there is 37 imparing movement things to worry about, also that means Resolve has 37 things to protect. Outta the 37, what do you think is actually being protected in full white bar? Regardless if some are not considered CC in the game, don't mean it actually isn't CC. CC aka Crowd Control = impairing movement effects, it always has been that way, and always will be that way. Resolve explanation before "While a target’s Resolve bar is empty or filling up, that target can be CC’d Once the target’s Resolve bar is full (>= 1000), the bar begins to drain and the target can’t be CC’d until the bar is empty" Resolve explanation from a Bioware employee, "Austin Peckenpagh (Senior Designer): Resolve is meant to put a lid on effects that take control away from you, the player. It's meant to limit the effectiveness of chain stuns, sleeps, and knockbacks. However, it is not meant to impact the ranged and melee (kiting and anti-kiting) balance of the game. " Key phrases from Austin Peckenpagh is "meant to put a lid on effects that take control away from you" and "limit the effectiveness of stuns, sleeps, and knockbacks". Outta the 37 impairing movements in the game that I am posting which ones do you think is being protected, or meant to put a lid on the effects of us being CC'ed? My guess is 10% of the 37 CC moves, just saying. Edited July 13, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I understand thats what YOU feel should be considered CC and what YOU feel should be effected by resolve. But it's not made that way. YOU can cry all you want about the system but it's only going to make YOU look silly. Learn how to play the game and learn the mechanics and you'll have a lot more credibility on the forums. Or you can continue to cry about it and have everyone laugh at you. It's entertainment to me PS - I have a feeling that 50% of the people in this thread have NO idea that a snare or a root can be cleansed. . .and I bet that 90% of the people in game dont realize this either. Your lack of doing any homework and denial is horrendous and hilarious to me, remember I am actually providing evidence of a crappy game mechanic called Resolve, you actually are dissing anything I have to say on the matter and is using words like "crybaby or working as intended". Please stop trolling and park your butt back to the bridge, it really is useless blah blah from you. Unless you have anything but useful information on this matter then stay out of it and let the big boys deal with it. That just happened. Edited July 13, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulppes Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 You can still attack during a snare though... so is it really CC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) You can still attack during a snare though... so is it really CC? Yes, if it is a impairing movement its a Crowd Control move (CC). Edited July 13, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock_Bramson Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Um, actually, Cael, I believe the crux of that dev post was the part that says "resolve is to limit the amount of stuns, sleeps, and knockbacks," which is exactly what it does. The dev goes on to say that they left roots/snares out of the equation to keep kiting and gap-closing viable. Glad you took all that time to type/copy and paste all those moves only to use a quote that hurts your argument. Resolve encourages more thoughtful use of stuns/mezes/kockbacks, i.e. saving them to ensure caps, trap ball carriers in the fire or knock them down into the pit, etc etc. It also encourages thoughtful use of your stun-break. (aka usually letting your resolve fill first, but sometimes using the break early to stop a near-cap) Roots and snares, meanwhile, are there to help you kite or help you catch someone trying to kite, but can be cleansed easily. The system is working exactly as intended. Perhaps you don't like the intention, but that doesn't mean that it's broken. -Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Resolve encourages more thoughtful use of stuns/mezes/kockbacks, i.e. saving them to ensure caps, trap ball carriers in the fire or knock them down into the pit, etc etc. It also encourages thoughtful use of your stun-break. (aka usually letting your resolve fill first, but sometimes using the break early to stop a near-cap) Roots and snares, meanwhile, are there to help you kite or help you catch someone trying to kite, but can be cleansed easily. The system is working exactly as intended. Perhaps you don't like the intention, but that doesn't mean that it's broken. -Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands- Resolve encourages? Can be cleansed easily? Working as intended? Grats on completely being useless to the topic at hand and not providIng nothing but a argument what I say. Listen up all of you, unless you answer my questions I have asked or come up with another conclusion then don't quote anything I have asked or proven. If you can't understand what I am trying to do then don't think about posting or quoting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallenturtle Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Some Visual proof. http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad155/fallendarkturtle/Screenshot_2012-07-12_20_49_10_624319.jpg I had full resolve, I was Whirlwinded (Suppose to break on damage) and as you can see in the photo I was taking damage from a dot and still spinning the full duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock_Bramson Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lol, whatever man. I know exactly what you're trying to say: you think roots/snares should be effected by resolve. Great, you're entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, roots/snares should remain separate from the system because they help ranged classes stay at range and melee classes stay close when used correctly. They can also be cleansed by competent healers (i.e me, as long as it's not tech-based), and they don't prevent you from using your abilities; they can certainly be annoying, but they do not prevent you from reacting in some way. And yes, the resolve system encourages a more thoughtful response to stuns. If you break a stun or a mez before you have a full resolve bar, you deserve to eat the entire duration of the next stun the enemy will gladly throw on you. Since many people understand this, you, in turn, have to be more selective with your stuns. Otherwise, you'll just be one of those knuckle-heads who fills the ball-carriers resolve too early, letting them score much more easily. Sure, you can root them, but their healers can cleanse the roots, and they can still pass the ball. If you save your stuns, however, you trap them in the fire and prevent them from passing, getting the ball back for your team. Hey, guess what? I am yet again addressing your argument directly. It doesn't matter if you claim that I'm not adding anything to the discussion, I'm gonna go right ahead and do it anyway. Resolve isn't broken, it's working as intended, etc etc; we don't need to continue in that vein. However, you won't sound nearly as dumb if you simply re-frame your argument as "I'm not a fan of how roots/snares work in this game." That would be a much more interesting discussion, although you'll be on the weak side of that argument as well. -Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock_Bramson Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Btw, turtle, we can't see your picture. Not that it matters, though, since WW breaks on dmg every damn time I put it on someone or someone puts it on me/ anyone else. You may have experienced a graphical hic-up. Whatever the case, a video would be more helpful, as a picture could simply show a snap-shot of you in the WW as the dot ticks, after which you'd be free. I realize that moves might bug out sometimes, but it hasn't happened to me, and if it happens at all it's exceedingly rare. (annoying, I'm sure, but very rare nonetheless) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lol, whatever man. I know exactly what you're trying to say: you think roots/snares should be effected by resolve. Wrong, that is exactly what I am not applying at all, rest of your post was blah blah "working as intended" which is again another attempt to discredit me. By the way your opinion does not help here, my proof of 37 CC moves and a resolve bar that does not work is the problem here in this game. Not agreeing to that is dissing the truth and being blind to game mechanics on how it should work, hence why its a waste of time talking to you about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 i just have to say to the OP, lol root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darpvaida Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 >immediately rooted, rooted, rooted again, rooted again until my resolve was out >Stunned full durations full resolve >rooted again through my entire resolve bar LMAO they could have at least bought you a drink first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 LMAO they could have at least bought you a drink first I loled hard...out loud even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laiboch Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Welcome to Star Wars the CC Republic. Where rather than resolving issues they add another stupid looking pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaedrusGrey Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Asking for roots to respect resolve and saying that resolve is broken are two separate issues. Please stop saying "roots" = cc in swtor. Currently "roots" does not equal cc. Until you get that fact of the game through your head you do not understand how the rules work in this game. I dare you to tell a Melee class a root isn't a CC. It's got the exact same effect and prevents them from doing anything useful and it absolutely KILLS in Huttball when you're nearing the enemy line. Nothing like getting Charged or Leapt on 3 times with full resolve to make you rage at Bioware. but if you wanna play that game, then OK. Force Wave isn't CC by your logic. It just pushes you back and with the right talent tree it roots you to the ground. But wait that's not on Resolve is it? It is? YOU DON'T SAY? So why not put the Leap and Charge roots? Still, let them have the gap-closer but take away the rooting effect. Wrong, that is exactly what I am not applying at all, rest of your post was blah blah "working as intended" which is again another attempt to discredit me. By the way your opinion does not help here, my proof of 37 CC moves and a resolve bar that does not work is the problem here in this game. Not agreeing to that is dissing the truth and being blind to game mechanics on how it should work, hence why its a waste of time talking to you about it. You only think it's a waste of time because you assume tey won't do anything about it. If Bioware actually looked at the logic behind it they'd change it because it gives anything with a Charge/Leap ability a rediculous advantage. One way of midigating this is to meet at a halfway point like I meantioned above. Let them have the Charge/Leap BUT do not apply the rooting/snare effect if Resolve is full, thus giving them use to their ability while having it conform to the Resolve system. Both sides win. Edited July 13, 2012 by PhaedrusGrey Added some things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Your lack of doing any homework and denial is horrendous and hilarious to me, remember I am actually providing evidence of a crappy game mechanic called Resolve, you actually are dissing anything I have to say on the matter and is using words like "crybaby or working as intended". Please stop trolling and park your butt back to the bridge, it really is useless blah blah from you. Unless you have anything but useful information on this matter then stay out of it and let the big boys deal with it. That just happened. Dont worry Homie. I have no reason to Diss some bad that comes and QQs on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ybini Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Just had a wonderful game vs some operative / combat marauder / sorc group. >Stunned full durations full resolve >immediately rooted, rooted, rooted again, rooted again until my resolve was out >Stunned full durations full resolve >rooted again through my entire resolve bar Explain in what world it's ok to survive almost an entire minute without being able to move a single inch thanks to a complete lack of diminishing returns or immunity to cc This is completely broken You're lucky I usually die before I get a full resolve bar because they're in pairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Dont worry Homie. I have no reason to Diss some bad that comes and QQs on the forums. Nice post, what you go to troll school to learn that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 *snip* Grand Total of 37 skills/skill tree dumbs to provide CC in this game. That means there is 37 imparing movement things to worry about, also that means Resolve has 37 things to protect. Outta the 37, what do you think is actually being protected in full white bar? *snip* My guess is 10% of the 37 CC moves, just saying. You are wrong. From 37 skills you listed, white resolve bar protects from 19. 51%. Biggest problem I see in your thinking is your interpretation of what resolve is. Quoting your own post: Devs version: Resolve is meant to put a lid on effects that take control away from you Your version: That means there is 37 imparing movement things to worry about, also that means Resolve has 37 things to protect. Taking away control =/= movement impairing effect. You can still use all your abilities when rooted or slowed. You have control over your character actions (you may have not control over your character movement, but it is not exactly the same). Resolve protects you from 100% of abilities that mez, stun, knockback, knockdown or pull you. As it was said many times in this thread already - you dont accept that. Question is, why you think it is something that should be changed, when a lot of players accept and like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 You are wrong. From 37 skills you listed, white resolve bar protects from 19. 51%. Show me a link and prove it, then we can talk, just don't make up random % numbers without a link or a ss. Also my theory isn't theory, I named 37 CC moves or skills in the game, therefore you have to consider what actually is being damage migrated through resolve, and what is not. How can a system that is suppose to protect be completely crap to the rest of the cc in the game and only block the number Bioware allows to happen? Question is, why you think it is something that should be changed, when a lot of players accept and like it? Accepting and liking is one thing, people like me that sees through the cloud put over our heads is another. I actually am guy that has been doing this since EQ and DAOC, have beta tested 100's of games since 1997, trust me when I say I know my mmo game mechanics from ground up and some. My intention always is to ask the tough questions and get a solid response from people that understand game mechanics. Along the way I will get a "L2P" or "Working as intended" and that is fine I can accept the easy response from people that actually either are blind to the truth, to complete and utterly being naive to the truth. Troll will be trolls, hit me with your best shot. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I actually am guy that has been doing this since EQ and DAOC, have beta tested 100's of games since 1997, trust me when I say I know my mmo game mechanics from ground up and some. I actually am a guy that has been doing this since Columbus crossed the Atlantic. I have beta tested the very first computer and every game since. Trust me when I say I know my game mechanics from the ground up. See how silly your appeal to authority logical fallacy looks to everyone else? On to the meat of your post, BW makes the game, therefore the mechanics are what they want, not what you want. The Resolve system functions 100% correctly within the parameters BW has given us (i.e. it makes you immune to SWTOR CC, and SWTOR CC does not include roots and snares). You don't like that, and that is your opinion. Instead of trying to call the sky orange and grass pink (i.e. arguing that reality isn't real), you should be arguing that the sky would be better orange and you prefer pink grass. Edited July 13, 2012 by Darth_Philar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabrae Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I agree roots should be on resolve....very frustrating to come out of long stuns and yet still not be able to move........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I agree roots should be on resolve....very frustrating to come out of long stuns and yet still not be able to move........ Do you also agree that Melee DPS should be nerfed to 50% of what it is now? Because that is what will be needed to balance the kiting meta game if roots and snares are Resolve effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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