evilsrequiem Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, so far, most people seem to be disappointed by the legacy system. Seeing it as a money sink. I can see where a lot of people are coming from. I personally believe it should have been a point system, where you insert points that you gain from legacy level 1 to 50. 50 points to allot to whatever you choose, so you have to think about what you want, and that way it also affects all your characters. I believe this would have been a better method, would have probably gotten more people to level up alts to gain legacy levels than to grind dailies, meaning people simply playing more, to get that extra level, which is much more addicting than grinding for that extra million in credit. But thats just my opinnion. I want to hear what you guys would like from the future of the legacy system. For me, I would like to see a proper legacy tree that affects all our characters. The idea I have for it is, you start off with the choice of two skills at the bottom, and you have to choose one, then you go up and you have the choice of four skills and you can only choose two, so on and so forth, and these skills affect things like lets say, 5% more damage to robotic enemies, or 5% less damage from explosive/aoe damage and what not, and the farther it goes up the more unique your choices get. And the choices you make have to be important since it affects all your classes, since they all share the same tree. Kinda making it like a DNA strand how everyone in a family shares traits and what not. Also, I think it should be sort of permanent so that people really think before they plunge forward, so to do this, give them access to one tier of the tree at a time, release the entire tree of course, but access to one tier a month? Allowing people to really really think before they make a decision. This is one of the things I thought would be really cool, kinda like an alternate advancement that affects not just one toon, but all. What you guys think? And please, post what you want from the future of the legacy system I would love to see all you guys opinions and hopes^^ Sorry for long walls of text xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erictlewis Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The legacy system that we got with 1.2 is what made a lot of my friends go back to their previous game or to a new game. It was the deciding factor for me and the wife to can our subs. We still have game time until the next month, however I only logged in a few times. 1.3 was a joke, with the cost of the unlocks and all. It just put a more useless grind into place. I hope now that zoller decided to quit Friday; that some good changes start to happen, as of right now I don't see any changes that make me want to renew my sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivomec Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I guess what I was hoping for with the Legacy system is a system like Everquest had back in the day as in Alternate advancement (AA points). Except tailored to high end raiding with options for leveling alts as well if that is your thing. I guess something similar to what you have described above. I agree it is a major money sink, and it should be a points system. You should have to think about (plan ahead) what you want to do with those points, (are you going to want to add to your raiding experience or help alts level?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsrequiem Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 The legacy system that we got with 1.2 is what made a lot of my friends go back to their previous game or to a new game. It was the deciding factor for me and the wife to can our subs. We still have game time until the next month, however I only logged in a few times. 1.3 was a joke, with the cost of the unlocks and all. It just put a more useless grind into place. I hope now that zoller decided to quit Friday; that some good changes start to happen, as of right now I don't see any changes that make me want to renew my sub. I'm sorry to hear your friends and you and your wife leaving. I will give you my two cents. Swtor, is a new MMO, it came out with quite a lot of hype and promises, that did eventually kill it for a lot of people. But it released with a lot more content than most MMO's do today. Compare the amount of content released in this game, to MMO's released before it. or at the same time. So that in itself was pretty great. Now, many people left because there wasn't enough this or enough that, but they love star wars and they actually enjoyed the game until they ran out of things to do or just so many issues that bothered them. They went back to their old games that had years of time to perfect themselves and add an extreme amount of content over the years. But why not stay and support a game you like the theme of? Keep giving the developers your thoughts and what changes you want, especially in a respectful manner, show them how passionate you are, and things will eventually go the communities way. Hell, Bioware do like there customers, look at how they are constantly working to improve this game and their others. If people leave every new game that comes out, without giving it the proper amount of time to bloom, MMO's will never go anywhere. Its like when GW 2 eventually releases, the mass majority of people aren't going to be happy because they will feel like their is not enough this or that or feel lied to or that things are not happening fast enough, and there will be an absence of players, but that doesn't help the game, it just hurts it. Obviously staying subscribed to something you're not enjoying doesn't work. But being very vocal about a theme or premise you do love and continuing to support it goes a long way. Sorry, that was more than 2 cents xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsrequiem Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Another cool thing for the legacy system is a way to implement a padawan and master role type system, where you can add a newbie as your padawan which would give them simple bonuses, and even more so when they are paying together, like added exp, damage, health, attack speed, stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecint Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Extra character slots would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippiechick Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) The "new MMO" excuse didnt fly at release and it doesnt fly now. The industry standards should be in place, things like LFG, respeccing, cosmetic outfitting, all of those perky things that exist in any "up to date" game. Without them, the game is behind the curve. These things didnt exist when a lot of the games were released so saying that "WoW didnt have that when it came out" is irrelevant. It has these things NOW and so does any game worth its salt. This game released with out a lot of the things that are just the norm for any game these days and it being new doesnt excuse it. On topic, the legacy system is lacking and too big of a time sink, especially when they TOLD us that it would require legacy OR credits to buy the perks then released it requiring both. Bitter much? Yes I am. The legacy system is my biggest let down in the game. I still enjoy playing it and will as long as I still have a class to level cap, but once I have them all capped I am done here. I refuse to lay out hours of my life grinding content in a game for the ridiculous amount of creds it would take to get the perks Id like to have. Kudos to those of you who have done so, I wont. What would make me happy? ALL of them being legacy wide. Anything less and Im not participating. I dont own a single perk other than the ones that auto unlock (race etc) and I never will. M Edited July 12, 2012 by hippiechick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) The legacy system could have been a really unique twist on other MMOs alternate ability points. As it stands... in 1.2 there wasnt much worth unlocking, especially at the cost of the stuff. If it were a true points system and not a pathetic money sink then I probably would have unlocked some of it, if not all of it. I think the main problem is that by the time they released it, alot of people already had enough points to buy everything so there would have been no further time sink.... they put in the credit sink to add in a further time sink for those who had the points already. Then 1.3 comes and they completely change it so it is now per character rather then per legacy. I mean, its like they built a new system rather then adding on to what they already had. They futher made more credit sinks because, again, its per character and not per legacy. I think if you are going to call it legacy then an unlock should apply to all your legacy characters... that was the big point of legacy and what they sold us on. Its rediculous to go back on something like that. To further compound it with credit sink really sucks and it was a bad decision IMO. They can add fluff for credit sinks. Legacy should go by playing the game. No, I do not call farming dailies for months, playing the game. Bottom line is, I am semi happy with what they have released as unlocks but not happy about it not being legacy wide nor am I happy about the credit sink included. Legacy wide things they could add could be things like found datacrons are now legacy wide. Use your holocall to call one of your other characters and have a story with them. Swap a companion that u like to another character...Sith lords now can use blizz!! I dont know maybe thats out of realm but would be neat Edited July 12, 2012 by Soluss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Legacy is awesome in utility and how in 1.3 it has a bit of content. The problem is that it is the dev's ways to clog credit sinks in-game. I am fine with credit sinks that exist that punish mistakes (ie, repair costs) and are there to help get rare and good items, but it is ridiculous some of the prices on certain items. I am in favor of either a scalable reduction in prices based on your legacy level (ie, a huge discount so legacy stuff is basically free at legacy level 50) or just a reduction in prices all-together. BW has a great concept in theory but the money cost attached to it (and the prices) are going to diminish the potential of the system for a lot of people. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraegore Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Useful XP bonuses for mob kills and all quests. Increased by each level 50 you have. The current xp bonuses are garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phxmarc Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The "new MMO" excuse didnt fly at release and it doesnt fly now. The industry standards should be in place, things like LFG, respeccing, cosmetic outfitting, all of those perky things that exist in any "up to date" game. Without them, the game is behind the curve. These things didnt exist when a lot of the games were released so saying that "WoW didnt have that when it came out" is irrelevant. It has these things NOW and so does any game worth its salt. This game released with out a lot of the things that are just the norm for any game these days and it being new doesnt excuse it. On topic, the legacy system is lacking and too big of a time sink, especially when they TOLD us that it would require legacy OR credits to buy the perks then released it requiring both. Bitter much? Yes I am. The legacy system is my biggest let down in the game. I still enjoy playing it and will as long as I still have a class to level cap, but once I have them all capped I am done here. I refuse to lay out hours of my life grinding content in a game for the ridiculous amount of creds it would take to get the perks Id like to have. Kudos to those of you who have done so, I wont. What would make me happy? ALL of them being legacy wide. Anything less and Im not participating. I dont own a single perk other than the ones that auto unlock (race etc) and I never will. M It took that many years for that to come out on WoW and it still isn't perfect. So, if you want those thing, then pls go play WoW instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippiechick Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It took that many years for that to come out on WoW and it still isn't perfect. So, if you want those thing, then pls go play WoW instead You mean "go play any game that isnt old and out of date" because they all have these "perky" features in them. Its not just LFG tools but lets look at that one just for an example. Rift made the mistake of releasing without an LFG and quickly realized what a huge mistake that was and added it in pretty fast. ANY game that releases without it will either add it in asap or put up with an angry player base that cant find groups for group content, which is exactly what happened here. So...why not release with it in the first place? People expect it in a new game and wont be happy without it ever again. There are many things that we have come to expect from a new game and SWTOR is lacking a lot of them. LFG is just the tip of the iceburg. I DO play WoW. And if I wasnt having a good time in SWTOR I wouldnt be here. Telling me to leave is SO unproductive I cant even believe you said that after 400k people DID go back to WoW causing huge server xfers and the locking of a TON of the servers. Every one leaving wont make the game better but the people who love and care about SWTOR, like myself, expressing their opinions, hopes AND let downs WILL. I hope. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordChucks Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I have also been very underwhelmed with the Legacy aspect of the game. It seemed like such an easy thing to get right.: - Make it account wide - Track cumulative progress (faction stories finished, class stories finished, achievements/points) - Vanity reward unlocks (species combos, emotes, noncombat pets, ship paint, barber shop, last names per character, etc) - Alt-friendly purchaseable unlocks (heirloom items, xp boosts, reduced speeder reqs, etc) at reasonable prices - BONUS: Grind reducing elements. Shared credit stash per server, some way to tie banks together between chars per server (even if it was just a single shared tab at the end), account wide unlocking once datacrons are found, account wide sharing of planetary commendations, pretty much anytihng that players would dread doing again and again. Aside from the last point, none of that seemed in any way unreasonable. Nothing earth shattering that would have massively eaten into development. What was dismaying from the start was how contradictory (or flat out useless) everything being added to the Legacy has been. Cool, we get to pick a last name. Bummer, it is applied to ALL our characters on that server. Well I guess I can make my Republic characters on one server and my Imps on another. Too bad any species I unlock by hitting 50 won't be available to the other faction on the other server. And even worse that some upcoming features (like HK) require you to have both sides on he same server. But at least people who like to just play for the story and then start over can pick up all those perks for levelling new alts through so much of the same content each time, provided they spent plenty of time at endgame first grinding out the credits. And the tree and linking our portraits and family ties is perhaps the silliest part of it all, I cannot see anything good coming out if it in the future. So my earlier list stands, that is all I wanted out of the system. But with the direction it is heading it is feeling far more like just a massive credit sink than the cohesive achievement/vanity/heirloom system I was hoping for. Heck, since getting my characters transferred to one of the destination servers a few weeks ago I have not even been able to find a decent, unclaimed legacy name yet. And I have not missed any of the legacy features one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEmpress Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I would have loved a point system/level system, where you could unlock a few different things for each character as you level them up. It would have made a feel of accomplishment and actual encourage people to role alts instead of grinding dailies to get credit, which is tedious and boring. I for one don’t like having to choose to grind credit or do something else. Like level my new character or play with my friends. They could still have done the credits for the people who didn’t want to role an alt, but it should have been one or the other and never a massive credit skin. Right now the credit sinks just dragger the entire system down, making it feel like a chore over an accomplishment. I’ve notice this with other aspects of the game as well such as customizing you character outfit. Yes I know there need to be credit sink but they could have simple added elite vehicles, outfits, crystal, pets, etc. Needless to say I would like to see the legacy credit lowered a lot and future things added that aren’t one thing or the other. I hope they don’t do any more per character perks that even more annoying than the normal legacy perks. Oh and it be nice to make it account wide, so you weren’t force to play on one server. I still love the game but credit sink aren’t going to help keep people playing. Edited July 12, 2012 by SithEmpress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsrequiem Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 The "new MMO" excuse didnt fly at release and it doesnt fly now. The industry standards should be in place, things like LFG, respeccing, cosmetic outfitting, all of those perky things that exist in any "up to date" game. Without them, the game is behind the curve. These things didnt exist when a lot of the games were released so saying that "WoW didnt have that when it came out" is irrelevant. It has these things NOW and so does any game worth its salt. This game released with out a lot of the things that are just the norm for any game these days and it being new doesnt excuse it. On topic, the legacy system is lacking and too big of a time sink, especially when they TOLD us that it would require legacy OR credits to buy the perks then released it requiring both. Bitter much? Yes I am. The legacy system is my biggest let down in the game. I still enjoy playing it and will as long as I still have a class to level cap, but once I have them all capped I am done here. I refuse to lay out hours of my life grinding content in a game for the ridiculous amount of creds it would take to get the perks Id like to have. Kudos to those of you who have done so, I wont. What would make me happy? ALL of them being legacy wide. Anything less and Im not participating. I dont own a single perk other than the ones that auto unlock (race etc) and I never will. M I like to think of my self as an MMO player, I play a lot, and test out all the new ones each day. Which of these newly released MMO's released with a group finder exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzil Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Personally : To be account wide.Not to be the only way to get a surname.To not format the 'family' tree as a straight line going off the edges if you don't want to be parents/children of your own characters (of different races!)To carry on being a money sink so that the economy doesn't overheat as badly as so many other MMOs.To never include "required" buffs.To be added to slowly, not in large chunks early in it's life then abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The problem with using Legacy to impact raiding by amending damage etc is that Bioware will have to factor that in to their operations so making people with less legacy more unlikely to be able to enter operations, imagine the QQ over that. Also as high level dailies is the easiest way to increase legacy basing unlocks on legacy levels only will probably not increase the use of alts. Some of the legacy seems to be similar to the WoW guild perks so I would suggest that Bioware look there for a few ideas, some have already been given in this thread. I actually like the idea of personal perks so you do not limit the ability of smaller guilds to function correctly, something that plagued WoW once they introduced Guild perks. On the point of costs, to be honest credits are so easy to get in this game if you look at a gold (WoW) to credit (SWTOR) conversion these perks are not really expensive. What I would like to see is raid dropped schematics available for high levels of legacy which would allow raiders to gear up their alts quicker, at a steep cost of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Personally : To be account wide.Not to be the only way to get a surname.To not format the 'family' tree as a straight line going off the edges if you don't want to be parents/children of your own characters (of different races!)To carry on being a money sink so that the economy doesn't overheat as badly as so many other MMOs.To never include "required" buffs.To be added to slowly, not in large chunks early in it's life then abandoned. Apart from account wide (which I'm not convinced about yet) I give this a +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsrequiem Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 The problem with using Legacy to impact raiding by amending damage etc is that Bioware will have to factor that in to their operations so making people with less legacy more unlikely to be able to enter operations, imagine the QQ over that. Also as high level dailies is the easiest way to increase legacy basing unlocks on legacy levels only will probably not increase the use of alts. Some of the legacy seems to be similar to the WoW guild perks so I would suggest that Bioware look there for a few ideas, some have already been given in this thread. I actually like the idea of personal perks so you do not limit the ability of smaller guilds to function correctly, something that plagued WoW once they introduced Guild perks. On the point of costs, to be honest credits are so easy to get in this game if you look at a gold (WoW) to credit (SWTOR) conversion these perks are not really expensive. What I would like to see is raid dropped schematics available for high levels of legacy which would allow raiders to gear up their alts quicker, at a steep cost of course. It doesn't have to affect raiding. Just make life a bit more easier. Its for those to work towards to have an easier life. but its also fair, like you only do a bit more damage to an enemy of a certain type, rather than all enemies, and it will be like that forever. So humanoid, machine, beast, etc. Kind of like AoC alternate advancement which is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It doesn't have to affect raiding. Just make life a bit more easier. Its for those to work towards to have an easier life. but its also fair, like you only do a bit more damage to an enemy of a certain type, rather than all enemies, and it will be like that forever. So humanoid, machine, beast, etc. Kind of like AoC alternate advancement which is great. OK I can live with that but I just have the alarm bells ringing that some people will then start putting this in as a requirement for certain fights. Maybe it won't happen and I worry unnecessarily, as my exposure to many MMO's is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpointon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Personally, the ONLY new thing i want...which isnt a lot to ask for...is the ability to change ALL bound items to bind on legacy. So....your dad crafts a belt, uses it, then gets a new belt and wants to pass it onto his son...oh but he cant because its bound. CHANGE IT !!! I'd even pay credits for this feature ! At the very least allow all items that have been crafted by one of your characters to be bound to legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguyo Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I will echo the notion that it shouldn't be a credit sink. It should be points systems that is based your legacy level. But more than anything it should contain something useful A starship mailbox.. Waste A starship repair droird... Waste A Starship FTN terminal.. waste The ability to have your companion sell trash faster.. Waste An XP bonus for subordinate characters.. Waste Shorter cool down on the Quick Transport and emergency fleet pass... Really is that something anyone would work for? The Class Unlocks are mostly useless, the shared primary buff is good, but the shared "heoric" ability is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsrequiem Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 OK I can live with that but I just have the alarm bells ringing that some people will then start putting this in as a requirement for certain fights. Maybe it won't happen and I worry unnecessarily, as my exposure to many MMO's is limited. Well yeah, obviously bosses would not really be affected by this system, since everyone would go for that. But raids have a variety of enemies, and since it permanent and you can't respec it, it would make having to have a certain build in this Alternate advancement useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilsrequiem Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 I will echo the notion that it shouldn't be a credit sink. It should be points systems that is based your legacy level. But more than anything it should contain something useful A starship mailbox.. Waste A starship repair droird... Waste A Starship FTN terminal.. waste The ability to have your companion sell trash faster.. Waste An XP bonus for subordinate characters.. Waste Shorter cool down on the Quick Transport and emergency fleet pass... Really is that something anyone would work for? The Class Unlocks are mostly useless, the shared primary buff is good, but the shared "heoric" ability is useless. But what would you like to see from it in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frumyrfrenzy Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) From the top of my head: 1. A base for your Legacy (Spacestation or Spaceship) with hangars for all your toons. 2. Ability to manage all companions with one character. 3. Ability to see the character currently not played in their repective rooms. 4. Customization of this legacy base, trophies, achievements. 5. Shared inventory. 6. Mission Terminals for the dailies, PvP, Operations, Flashpoints. 7. Tradeable Bind on Pick items/tokens/schematics. 8. Shared commendations (PvE, PvP, Dailies and so on). 9. Upgradable Experimentation System for crafting by adding a quality stat to ressources (similar to Star Wars Galaxies!) Edited July 12, 2012 by Frumyrfrenzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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