We need healer,tank addons!

[Elfindreams]

They said it would make people equal. I do disagree. While a color-blind person and a normal sight person see the same UI - the color blind is at a disadvantage. Same for people with attention deficit / while normal people might filter the information well enough / others need different approaches to reach the same result.

 

I think part of the problem is that it is a fine line between customizing interface and full on botting. 3rd party addons frequently step over that line. I would rather they focus on adding more to the UI customization to help people change things so that they can accomplish their own unique way of dealing with things.

[oredith]

Personally I would like to see threat meters of some sort only because I have to deal a lot with tanks that don't know how to hold threat (I am a healer and even purging threat periodically, I end up getting room aggro every time... grr) But I can see how that is unfair to the tanks that have taken the time to learn their class and can hold threat.

speaking as a tank that *can* hold threat on 7 mobs while dps is going nuts, i can tell you this: it's not that easy.

 

the problem is pure math. when there's a lot of mobs, the tank is faced with a distance issue, as well as a numbers issue.

 

for every heal you do (regardless if it's on the tank, or yourself, or dps, that's .7 threat.

for every damage the tank does, it's (actually, i'm not sure what the number is, now that they boosted it 100%).

 

that means I have to continuously hit EVERY mob, which isn't realistically a good goal, because our aoe abilities will only have enough threat to hold over the healer, but not the dps. so a tank has to thread the fine line of burst dps to hold aggro from dps, while weaving in aoe threat to hold against the healer, and then on top of that, stun/pull/range dps the mobs that are at ranged.

 

at least you're a sorc, nothing's as bad as a merc with a kolto shell on the tank. the second the tank moves in and gets hit, all mobs become angry at the merc.

Edited July 12, 2012 by oredith

[veyl]

To everyone suggesting Target of Focus hotkey, they added that Monday. Since there are some posts about it from yesterday, i can only assume people didn't read the patch notes.

Seriously, read patch notes... please

I would also like to see a UI element that shows your focus target's target visually which would be nice.

Personally I would like to see threat meters of some sort only because I have to deal a lot with tanks that don't know how to hold threat (I am a healer and even purging threat periodically, I end up getting room aggro every time... grr) But I can see how that is unfair to the tanks that have taken the time to learn their class and can hold threat.

 

Mouse over heal seems... kinda pointless.... click on person in ops frame, press heal hotkey, click on second person it ops frame, press hotkey... not sure how this is difficult.

 

Please oh god please do the debuff/buff stuff mentioned, visual auras sound cool (I never played WoW) but at least let us resize/move buff/debuff info... the Ops frame sucks at showing them at all... I can never tell what is on there... ever.

 

SWmonitor from Ask mr robot has a threat meter imbedded in it (Along with a HPS/DPS graph with Overlay windows). Only downside to this is everyone needs to get it and run it.

 

Mouse over heals: You've never played a healer and that's obvious from what you said. Not having to click on a frame makes a major difference in HPS, especially in operations. It's more fluid, plain and simple. Of course, mouseover healing has been screamed for by the healing community since Beta. Bioware did not listen or care..or have any feedback as to why mouseover's weren't put in the game. Mouse overs aren't just good for healers either, they're amazing for tanks. Taunt + mouseover = awesome.

 

Buffs and Debuffs: These are HORRIBLY done by Bioware as nearly everyone in this thread has pointed out (And it should be mentioned that everyone in beta pointed this out as well.) Almost every debuff shares it's icon with another ability/debuff from another class/mob. Tracking what you're putting on a mob needs to be separated from everyone else. If there's 3 watchmen sentinels in an operation you should be able to tell which of the burns is YOURS. Either put these icons as the first two or allow them to be larger than everyone elses. ALSO: If you can cleanse a debuff put on a player on your Ops frame, it should SHOW UP with a color//blinking box. Right now, it's near impossible to see who has what and calling it out on vent is really the easiest way to make the debuff get cleansed.

 

AND ADD MORE ICONS! There's absolutely NO reason why each debuff in the game shouldn't have its own, distinctive icon. ((This goes for bosses as well. I think the Zorn Fearful debuff is the same as the Battle rez debuff, or shares the same exact colors/design))

 

Honestly, the UI (as it is right now) is basically what I had with WoW's. I'm just missing a CD//Debuff tracker

[Elfindreams]

speaking as a tank that *can* hold threat on 7 mobs while dps is going nuts, i can tell you this: it's not that easy.

 

the problem is pure math. when there's a lot of mobs, the tank is faced with a distance issue, as well as a numbers issue.

 

for every heal you do (regardless if it's on the tank, or yourself, or dps, that's .7 threat.

for every damage the tank does, it's (actually, i'm not sure what the number is, now that they boosted it 100%).

 

that means I have to continuously hit EVERY mob, which isn't realistically a good goal, because our aoe abilities will only have enough threat to hold over the healer, but not the dps. so a tank has to thread the fine line of burst dps to hold aggro from dps, while weaving in aoe threat to hold against the healer, and then on top of that, stun/pull/range dps the mobs that are at ranged.

 

at least you're a sorc, nothing's as bad as a merc with a kolto shell on the tank. the second the tank moves in and gets hit, all mobs become angry at the merc.

 

I am definitely not trying to imply it is easy... just like healing through certain fights (LI HM anyone ) can be frustratingly difficult... but I think that challenge is there for a reason and removing it might be detrimental.

 

Threat from sorc healer is actually a bit less between lucidity (15% decrease in healing threat) and guard... that is if the tank guards the healer and the healer stays within range. Which is why I get frustrated when the tank asks me why they should guard me or ignores my request to guard or DPS that think they generate more threat and should be guarded instead... nope not really I do indeed generate more threat especially in a crowd. Its not about the damage mitigation, its about the threat management.

 

It is also why as a healer if I find myself idle, I will generally (unless dealing with a single boss target or a group of weak targets I can lightning storm to death) not apply any DPS... doing damage as the healer/highest threat generator outside the tank just adds to the tanks problems.

[Elfindreams]

Mouse over heals: You've never played a healer and that's obvious from what you said. Not having to click on a frame makes a major difference in HPS, especially in operations. It's more fluid, plain and simple. Of course, mouseover healing has been screamed for by the healing community since Beta. Bioware did not listen or care..or have any feedback as to why mouseover's weren't put in the game. Mouse overs aren't just good for healers either, they're amazing for tanks. Taunt + mouseover = awesome.

 

Actually I exclusively play a healer in ops and hard modes right now and have healed groups through everything from LI HM to EV and Karaggas HM quite successfully. And I don't find it a problem.... that extra click if you are using hotkeys right takes literally no time since you can click, and hit hotkey within miliseconds of each other and have it count. I have spent more time worrying about placement and size of ops frame than I do about whether or not I can save a single click on my heals.

 

-EDIT-

Thinking about it the reason I find it so easy is I use a combination of a Logitech G13 (movement mapped to thumb stick) and a Razr Naga Epic. So my fingers literally never have to move from home to move/select/heal. I have the main heal powers mapped to keys my fingers rest on naturally, move with the thumbstick and click/heal off of the ops frame.

 

Given that, I am inclined to support mouse over healing simply because someone like me with lots of gaming disposable income shouldn't have that major advantage over someone just using a normal two+wheel mouse and keyboard.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Elfindreams

[xenofire]

All they really need to do is let us make macros using their API and limit the accessibility to many functions on their API.

[Elfindreams]

All they really need to do is let us make macros using their API and limit the accessibility to many functions on their API.

 

In addition to real time stuff, they definitely need an API to get character info/etc. I.E. query character items on GTN/mailbox/stats in a slight time delayed fashion like EVE's API.

[TheRealCandyMan]

Why make the game even easier?

[alrun]

Why make the game even easier?

It's not really about easier.

 

It\s about getting the information you want in the way it fits you - if it did fit you well so far, I see you do not see any need for an improvement.

 

Why does one need 5 clicks if a single would suffice?

 

why do I need to strain my eyes to determine in a 200x100 pixel area if there is an icon present on not if there could be different ways of presentation. Not sure if the medical department agrees with the screen design.

[EricJS]

Why make the game even easier?

 

Because the challenge should be in evaluating the situation and making effective decisions, not in gathering information from a less than helpful UI (the request for buff sizing/filtering) or issuing the commands you've decided on (mouseover healing).

[InnerPieces]

Actually I exclusively play a healer in ops and hard modes right now and have healed groups through everything from LI HM to EV and Karaggas HM quite successfully. And I don't find it a problem.... that extra click if you are using hotkeys right takes literally no time since you can click, and hit hotkey within miliseconds of each other and have it count. I have spent more time worrying about placement and size of ops frame than I do about whether or not I can save a single click on my heals.

 

I agree and can relate to all of this. I'm also someone who healed for years in WoW and I guess the difference is I play a healer because I love the role. That means I make it work. I'm not a healer to "just get groups." I have no problem clicking between folks and hitting my heal hotkeys. In fact, it's part of what makes healing a challenge. Yes, I use the (normal optic) mouse and keyboard in concert in order to do well. Oddly enough, I do very well in PvP with other characters and am a "clicker." So as long as you can see appropriately and have your arms, hands, and fingers, I cannot relate to needing things to be easier.

 

The thing I'm most worried about is the elitists already have enough to force cookie-cutter playstyles on people with the WoW Talent trees we have and the antiquated WoW-style gear system (modable gear aside). We don't need people forcing 3rd party software on us.

 

Also, I'd hate to see the fun taken out of the game. I am not the kind of player who will fail once in a solo game and then run to gamefaqs for the solution. I'm not here to watch a game. I'm here to actively play one. If the game degenerates to "just showing up" to win there will be no point in it for me. Having played WoW for years, I know exactly how addons dumb things down and I would hate to see that happen here.

 

Because the challenge should be in evaluating the situation and making effective decisions, not in gathering information from a less than helpful UI (the request for buff sizing/filtering).

 

This statement was perfect if you stopped right there.

 

And this is why:

How hard is it to click and press a button in a 3 milisecond difference?

 

LOL

Edited July 12, 2012 by InnerPieces

[Exiled-Phoenix]

***, why are people asking to make the game easier?

Go play console games if u want easy interface...

 

How hard is it to click and press a button in a 3 milisecond difference?

[demonssword]

Ok addons or UI things that are good.

 

Threat Meter - So you can see how much threat you and 2-3 closest team mates have. (Omen from WoW)

 

Dot Timer / Debuff Tracker - I find it VERY annoying on my madness sorc having to attempt to find what damage over time effects are my ones when we have 3 madness sorcerers. Having a UI bit that just shows how long my ones have left would be great. Yes i know you can time your rotation to work out when things are going off, but a simple UI thing would make life easy. (DotTimer from WoW)

 

UI option to only show your own debuffs on the target - Again like above would make life easier if you only saw the debuffs you applied to a target. (Simple UI tickbox in WoW)

 

Hot Timer - Same as the Dot timer, would help see what is going on for your stuff a bit easier.

 

Modifable icons on screen - Power Auras was a great one for WoW that allowed you to set up Icons or flashes or sounds or all sorts of lovely stuff to happen when buffs, debuffs applied to you or your target. So for instance if we take a sniper on this game i would be able to set up a red ring to appear on part of my screen or maybe a sound effect saying "Ambush" linked into game from an MP3 file, or maybe colour my ambush button when i have "Reactive Shot" on my character, rather than having to try and tell if it has 4 little red rings around the end of my gun, what frequently refuses to appear anyway. (As said PowerAurasClasic from WoW)

 

Clickable healing icons - Other people mentioned this already people can bind abilitys to mouse buttons anyway as they do now, but they have to target the thing they want to use it on then click the button. with Healbot you could assign the keys as you would before, but by clicking the button while hovering over the raid frame box for the player it would use that ability on that player. In addition you could set up the frames to change colors if the person had a debuff that was able to be dispelled, of course also allowing you to modify the add on to ignore or only do this if certain debuffs / buffs were on the targets. (Healbot)

 

Damage / Healing Meter(s) - Simple ones showing how much damage you and your group are doing what can be clicked to see what abilitys did what damage and crits / miss / blocked. (Recount in WoW)

 

Whisper Highlighter - Makes your chat frame flash to highlight when you recieved a /tell. Disappeared when you clicked the chat box or pressed return to enter the chat frame.

 

Auction house mod - Plain and simple the UI of the GTN is teribad and needs to be improved, mods like Auctioneer, Auctionator and many many more were great in WoW. Things like sorting item by unit price not just overall price is nice, also hovering over the items used to reveil that say a stack of 12 items selling for 43320 would be 3610 per item, rather than having to use a calculator or math in your head.

 

This is just a few good ones that i can think of on the fly.

Edited July 12, 2012 by demonssword

[TheRealCandyMan]

It's not really about easier.

 

It\s about getting the information you want in the way it fits you - if it did fit you well so far, I see you do not see any need for an improvement.

 

Why does one need 5 clicks if a single would suffice?

 

why do I need to strain my eyes to determine in a 200x100 pixel area if there is an icon present on not if there could be different ways of presentation. Not sure if the medical department agrees with the screen design.

Do you not see how this would make the game infinitely easier?

 

Macros just dumb down the skill required to do things.

[DiLune]

Auction house mod - Plain and simple the UI of the GTN is teribad and needs to be improved, mods like Auctioneer, Auctionator and many many more were great in WoW. Things like sorting item by unit price not just overall price is nice, also hovering over the items used to reveil that say a stack of 12 items selling for 43320 would be 3610 per item, rather than having to use a calculator or math in your head.

 

This is just a few good ones that i can think of on the fly.

 

Happy to say that it does do that if you hover your mouse over the purchase price. But sorting by lowest unit price would still be an improvement.

[Elbynerual]

And generalizations are for people who can't make good arguments!

 

All kidding aside, "addons" are just UI elements/mods that aren't included by default, so that players can customize things to suit their needs. This doesn't mean they have to be things that play the game for you (which is exaggerated anyway, but I digress). If addons only take information that the game already gives you and let you change it into a different form, then I don't see why anyone should complain about a lack of "work".

 

People having an advantage by using addons while those who prefer a challenge refraining from using them presents an imbalance in the game. Why should people with less skill deserve the loot that those who put forth more effort get? So the game can be fair? Life's not fair. Get used to it. What's the point of people not using addons if they exist in the game? It lets all the newbs get the gear that they work so hard for. So what's the point of keeping a fight challenging when everyone in the server can beat it? The only imbalance that should be left alone is skill. Addons remove the imbalance. Bioware, please don't nerf skill imbalances.

 

Colorblind people can't "work" at seeing certain colors, so if they want to change the color of certain icons, I don't think they are lazy. I don't think a lack of work ethic motivates those people who may want a "free ability" proc icon to show up someplace they actually can see it, with some shape/color/icon combination that makes sense to them. Maybe the default UI will one day contain enough customization to satisfy everyone, but I doubt that's even possible, much less worth developer time.

 

Seems this problem could be fixed by not having any two graphics be the same. It's kind of ridiculous to me how many buffs in this game have the same graphic. But yes, default UI customization is not something I'm against.

[EdrallXGSTAR]

Not gonna change topic itself, but what veeeery badly needs at first place this game is MORE action bars. At least 2 or 3 more.

 

And I am not the unique asking for this, btw.

Edited July 12, 2012 by EdrallXGSTAR

[veyl]

Do you not see how this would make the game infinitely easier?

 

Macros just dumb down the skill required to do things.

 

Not the case at all. Mouseover macros make the decision time faster which in turn is put into the content making -everything- faster. You're more on edge in a game that requires split second heal decisions over the delayed (swtor) decision of clicking something to heal.

 

Look at the difference between healing in Vanilla WoW to healing something like...Heroic Arthas or Muru pre expansion nerfs. It's astronomically faster in later content because of mouseovers/addons. Why did anyone die on those fights? Because someone will say "They were too slow on the heal". The mouseover healing from vanilla was slower because the game was fresh out of the box, once Blizzard realized that healers were having it "too easy", they ramped up the damage // aoe across the board.

 

You call it dumbing down, I call it "You don't want to adapt to faster gameplay".

[angrydurf]

Please no addons. Offloading your UI design to even talented amateurs not something that I want to see from a company I'm paying fifteen bucks a month too. In other games (wow being the big one) 95% of addons were worthless, 4.999% were just straight up game breakingly exploitative (and had to be broken by changes in the API), and the slim remainder were features that they should (and in some cases did) have made themselves.

 

No threat meters. No damage meters. With combat log external parsers can give a raid leader all he needs to monitor that his DPS is keeping up with each other. Live combat meters lead to bad DPS playing worse and often derails even good DPS as the competitive edge begins to outweigh the good of the raid (Thus they stand in fire or fire off another insta crit rather than a detaunt or make any number of other mistakes as they are glued to a little bars fluctuation and not the encounter. Threat meters are for bad players to be able to complete content while phoning it in don't do it.

 

more customization of buff debuff display is really really needed it's a mess right now. Mouseover casting would be good if we had more options for target frames like target of target, Focus target, etc. Separate friend and foe targeting, Either ala Warhammer Online or even just a friendly focus, enemy focus and group focus (controlled by raid/group leader).

 

Nameplate targeting. Please. In a big melee it is impossible to click target and tab can take forever and is incredibly non intuitive where it is gonna go.

 

Seperate from combat UI. I'd like to see improvements to Mail and GTN UIs. Auto fill with names from your legacy would be a big help when sending stuff to alts and alts are a big draw for this game. GTN is really clunky in it's current incarnation. Sorts by price per unit eliminate known schematics from listings, being able to list multiple of one Item without having to drag and create the listing over and over. Show weapons in the appearance preview window.

Edited July 12, 2012 by angrydurf

[Jacerunner]

Overall I think that better buff/debuff customization is needed. There are several fights where debuffs need to be dispelled, but because of the icon size healers are completely unaware of the mechanic. Also allow filtering so people can choose to only see debuffs they can dispell.

 

For tanking I would like a very rough threat indicator on enemy nameplates. There is a tendency for trash pulls to have large amounts of mobs and this leads to there being several mobs that I am unsure if they are attacking me or a healer. To resolve this simple add a yellow glow when about to gain agro, and red when agro'd by a mob.

 

Also any indicators that make proc'd effects from talents more apparent would be a good move.

 

The important part of the UI is not to hand hold mechanics, but to clearly show all the important mechanics to the user. A test of skill should not be from dealing with a poorly designed interface. If that is what is considered skill, just play the game with the interface completely off. That is a definite challenge.

[EdrallXGSTAR]

If no macros at least, try to make something similar to that. Like, I don't know, making new spell icons with the funcion of a kind of a key binder to make a spell casting of two spells you desire to use and respawn X seconds if not used all of them, of course. Not necessary the full complex macros functions that WoW 's macros has.

 

Also, is needed a lot to modify the debuff / buff design. A total pain in the neck watching there the damn Upped Hand buff, how much Upper Hand point I has to control their spending and how much left to finish its duration, :lol:

Edited July 12, 2012 by EdrallXGSTAR

[WoruulKeei]

Something to fix the issue with procs, be it able to resize them separately or something like power auras (which honestly is more what I would prefer). Also would like simple macros so I can set a macro to my shadow stealth cc and trigger the emote for these aren't the droids you are looking for together, or poke fun at my guildmates when I revive them.

[TheRealCandyMan]

Not the case at all. Mouseover macros make the decision time faster which in turn is put into the content making -everything- faster. You're more on edge in a game that requires split second heal decisions over the delayed (swtor) decision of clicking something to heal.

 

Look at the difference between healing in Vanilla WoW to healing something like...Heroic Arthas or Muru pre expansion nerfs. It's astronomically faster in later content because of mouseovers/addons. Why did anyone die on those fights? Because someone will say "They were too slow on the heal". The mouseover healing from vanilla was slower because the game was fresh out of the box, once Blizzard realized that healers were having it "too easy", they ramped up the damage // aoe across the board.

 

You call it dumbing down, I call it "You don't want to adapt to faster gameplay".

 

I have never had a problem with healing at any level while playing with no macros.

[xenofire]

You guys who think UI's or addons make games easier are just plain uninformed.

 

The challenge should be in mechanics, decision making, reaction time, educational aptitude, and general intellectual prowess. "Of all the people who have the debuff, who should I dispel?" Is a fun and potentially difficult decision to make; spending that same amount of time clicking everyones name to see who has the debuff, is IRRITATING gameplay, and not difficult at all.

 

WoW has massive numbers of addons, and still gave us instances like Sunwell, and a few bosses in WoTLK and Cataclysm that were incredibly challenging. Look at heroic firelands, how many US guilds finished it before nerf? A hundred? With insane amounts of addons, all the information you could need, and everyone pushing crazy DPS through so many different kinds of sim tools support. Yet the game was still really difficult for the average person.

 

The challenge shouldn't be in trying to understand what the crap is going on or playing with a UI that could have been better designed by first year MMO players. It's really stupid that some people still have to press their DPS cooldown, press their trinket, and press their next ability. One button should do all that for you, it's a waste of time and DPS otherwise. Gamers are forced to get nagas just so they aren't completely irritated by the lack of information and complex intricacy-- not difficulty, needless complexity-- brought on by this games UI.

 

The fact that it's impossible to find debuffs doesn't make them harder to dispel, or even harder to deal with. It just means healers need to cycle through everyones portrait, or players need to clutter up vent with information like "i've got the debuff". It also makes mechanics like multiple debuf management and passing of specific debuffs between players nearly impossible. Quite frankly this game doesn't have enough freedom of information to even present difficult encounters designs.

 

This is a very passionate issue for me, because quite frankly bioware has just made a terrible design decision in this aspect to not open up the API. Even games like the secret world which spent way less time in development are opening up the API.

 

It's reasons like this, that SWTOR is dying very quickly. Bad development decisions lead to unfun gameplay.

Edited July 12, 2012 by xenofire

[Sivenom]

if you can get a resize on buff/debuff, and filter by debuffs applied by you (try raiding with 4 arsenal bounty hunters, and being able to tell which debuff is yours, when the debuff is tiny, on a boss with 4 rows of debuffs, is tough), and then which debuffs can be dispelled by you, would make a HUGE difference. IMO.

 

i don't think i'm alone in my personal opinion either.

 

edit for bullet type for ease of reading:

• Ability to size the buff/debuff INDEPENDENT of the target frame - I don't want the target frame to take up half of the screen to be able to see a debuff clearly
  
• ability to MOVE the buffs and debuff independent of each other - example, buffs on top, debuffs on bottom
  
• ability to filter out all other debuffs, except those applied by you
  
• ability to filter out all other debuffs, except those that can be dispelled by you
  

 

I, too, wish this. As well as the poster above him wanting a mouse over click to cast type function.

 

I would also like a threat meter, if only to gauge my own threat generation. I often find my assassin is woefully ill-prepared to generate threat against the other tanks in my guild. Even against our resident sniper. I'd like to know where I am, at what rate I am gaining threat, and who is second in threat (or second to both the tank and offtank) so we know who is getting shot/probed/cleaved next.

 

Or at the very least something that will light up when I have a buff that I am looking for. I'd like to know when I can use a free crushing darkness on my madness sin; but the icon is oft times shared with other unimportant icons like healing buffs or a relic proc.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Sivenom