End Game Woes & the LFG Tool without an iLvL ?

[Razot]

Ok so its Biowares fault that you cant figure out that you need to recruit more people into your merry band?

[LexiCazam]

Hi folks,

 

You may be interested in this post made by Development Director Toni Phillips, in response to group finder feedback from the Public Test Server forum:

 

So, some of you may have seen my posts in the forums and might have been wondering, “Who is this person?” Well, here it is! My name is Antonia “Toni” Phillips; I’m an industry veteran who has been working on SWTOR for the last two years, most recently with the Group Finder team.

 

A solid Group Finder system is very important to us and we have been keeping a close eye on the forums and your feedback. We are evaluating all of the feedback from the PTS and I wanted to take a moment to respond to the most popular topics we’ve seen.

 

Thanks for all the responses and keep it coming!

 

 

Shuttling to Starting Location:

One of the issues most commonly noted is that you are not returned to your original location when you end/exit a Flashpoint or Operation.

 

This is not a bug; let me explain that a little bit better!

 

In the game today, without the Group Finder, when you exit a Flashpoint or Operation you are NOT shuttled back to your original location - you're taken to the entrance.

 

Although this is currently how the Flashpoint and Operation exit technology functions, we understand the importance of modifying this functionality, especially for the Group Finder. We already have a plan to provide this as soon as possible. The moment we know what update this can be included with, we will let you know!

 

 

Tiers of Flashpoints:

What is the difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2 Flashpoints, you ask? Difficulty! Tier 2 Flashpoints are more difficult than Tier 1 and we felt that it wouldn’t be a good experience to place undergeared players into groups where they couldn’t meaningfully perform their assigned role. To support this, Tier 2 Flashpoints will be disabled by default and must be actively enabled through the Group Finder filters. Although there is only a single selection (Lost Island) for Tier 2 right now, there will be more in the future.

 

In addition, Tier 1 and Tier 2 Flashpoints share the same Group Finder daily reward mission. As we gather feedback when this feature goes live we will be making changes to the reward structure as needed.

 

 

Gear Score:

While we may never implement a “Gear Score” system, we understand the need to correctly match players with appropriate content. We also understand the need to match groups with a high chance for success. We are currently evaluating several ideas to improve this.

 

 

Ignore lists and Group Finder:

Quick Tip: if you place a player on your ignore list you will never be matched in a Group Finder group with that player. Although we have a loading screen tip already implemented for this option, we realize that we will need to more clearly communicate this.

 

 

Advanced Classes and Roles:

The roles that you are allowed to queue for in Group Finder are based on your Advanced Class and not your skill point allocation. For example, if you are a Jedi Sage you can queue for both Damage and Healing. We know that this option launches in advance of multi-speccing. However, once you launch Group Finder you can limit yourself to a specific role if you so choose.

 

 

Queuing Order:

Group Finder attempts to place you into a group by evaluating potential group matches in a specific order. This order is matched to the in-game order displayed in the Group Finder window. For example, at level 50, Group Finder will first check if you can form a valid Operation, and if not, it will then check Hard Mode Flashpoints, and so on. The specifics:

• At level 50 this will be in the following order: Story Mode Operations, Hard Mode Flashpoints Tier 1, Hard Mode Flashpoints Tier 2, Flashpoints, Planetary Destinations
  
• Under level 50 this will be in the following order: Flashpoints, Planetary Destinations
  

 

Planetary Destinations:

You want more content controls for Planetary Destinations and so do we! We know that planetary destinations are an area of improvement for Group Finder in future releases, and we're looking at more options, like adding directly selectable Heroic Missions and world bosses.

 

 

As we form our plan for future improvements, one of the pieces we need the most is your feedback. We are in the process of evaluating potential designs for player-set group size and specific mission queuing, among many others.

 

What do you want to see?

 

[Jackobite]

Im NOT a fan of gear scoring people out of content.

 

Still, I have been matched with people for Lost Island with 13k hp, one guy told us up front (bless him) its his first time in LI normal or hm,

Its asking a bit for me to wipe untill he learns it.

 

I think its a good call to leave out HM Ops from the LFG, normals sure get 8 in and have a laugh but ops hm requiers a bit of experience in what to do what not to do.

[Galbatorrix]

If you're serious about HM Ops, recruit the remaining players you need, setup a raid schedule and have at it. Edited July 9, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Tahana]

I think the point of the OP's original post is that he wanted to run HM OPs through the tool. Well sorry it isn't a LFR tool, you want to run ops, you're going to have to put up with the 'incessant chatter' as you put it.

[Callianna]

The reason HM operations were left out of lfg imo is that they require more coordination and skill to complete. If they were added to the lfg then they would have to be "dumbed" down so that the masses would be able to complete them. Not saying the masses aren't smart but skill level varies greatly amongst players. Imagine that they added HM lfg and you queue for it get matched with say 5 of the 8 players that have never seen it, let alone SM, you wipe multiply times on the first boss and can't down it. Now you're upset and visit the forums complaining that HM lfg is a failure. It's fact that people learn new things at a different level, some learn after one wipe some don't get it till 10 wipes.

 

Gearscore will not neccessarily fix the problem, there are plenty of players out there with "good" gear that have no idea how to play their class. Gearscore also allows an elitest attitude and excludes players from completing FPs or Ops. If you don't have at least a gearscore of "1500" you can't come to this operation, how is a person suppose to get that gearscore or experience if they are never allowed to go. Everyone at one time or another has been a fresh 50 and needed to gear up, just because you are a geared 50 now doesn't mean you should exclude new 50's from content. Granted trying to run HMs in greens that are 10 levels below 50 is a bit much lol.

[Lazzer]

I see several issues here; on one side people don't want an under geared player joining their HM Op due to having to carry them or being unable to complete it, but there are also situations where a group of friends wishes to queue and are just looking for a few extra players with the aim to get an under geared friend some equipment which means you can't bar anyone from the queues.

 

I already find it ridiculous that you have to wait for level 50 to do an 8 man operation as there are no multi-group Ops under level and a level 49 in purples is quite capable of running a story mode Op.

 

The other issue with gearscore is that there are level 49 mods and enhancements with higher stats than some of the rakata mods and enhancements so the gearscore would never be accurate.

[Maldernus]

Oh my! This is the second time in about a month that Skid and I agree on something....I'm getting worried!

 

If someone comes into an HM with really low level gear they can ruin the experience for everyone. Just explain to them nicely that they should work on getting at least level 50 Blues first. Even in this game the harder HM bosses are somewhat of a gear check.

[parmie]

It's gone a bit off topic I think so I'm not sure the original poster is still reading this still but my views on the first couple of pages:

 

Small guilds are great but they are very restrictive, because of the previous lack of a group finder, you just aren't going to find good/geared pugs consistently who would complement your group on a HM Ops.

 

We've have a medium sized social guild with mostly mature players and we've just absorbed a small guild who had similar issues and are in discussions with another, so there are other good people out there, you just have to find them.

 

As to generally the Group Finder, I've got 3 50s, all at different stages of end game gear, but my least geared is a healer. He is still much better than some pugs but it's much more interesting for it to be a challenge I have to say, and mostly, they appreciate the gearing advice, it's surprising how many guilds don't seem to help their members just with guidance.

[MasterKayote]

There should already be some sort of iLvL system there anyway. Those of us that use the LFG tool just to get BH comm's on our dailies surely must have come across the scenario of having a pug tank in group who has less HP than our DPS or Healer? or 2/4 people all wearing Col/Rak gear, and the other 2 wearing oranges with 51/52 mods in, tio's and green gear? Newer players not spacebar'ing past chat screens because it's all new to them on a BT/BP/Fou etc run that we've all done countless times. Let the newer players at 50 play with each other via an iLvL system, and us older geared up cynics blast through FP's that bore us in double quick time.

HMs have been nerfed to the ground already thanks to the LFG tool. You dont need an ilvl. I was with you on there being a very liberal ilvl system included with the tool but after seeing what theyve done to what little challenge the game had, there is no need for it unless they add HM Ops to the mix.

 

The player pool doesnt need to be split up even further just because you and you special exclusive guildies refuse to work with others to the point where you cant take 5 minutes out of your lives to allow someone to watch cutscenes.

 

Furthermore, its not just newbies that watch cutscenes ... I like to watch them again now and then, specially after not being there a while. So get over it. The LFG tool is there to match people into groups ... it does it well and works best when it doesnt descriminate. If youre going to use it you should get off your high horse and start being more tolerant of others. Otherwise, dont use it. Spam your long list of requirments on general for either groups or extra guildies and hope someone bites. Neither I nor anyine else should have to suffer longer queues from a split pool of players just because you are unwilling to work with any minor inconvinience.

[pipda]

To the OP.

 

If you want to stay with a small 3-5 man group and still do higher difficulty content designed for guilds with a larger player pool I would suggest start filling your friends list. If the LFG tool had a ilvl check you are just filtering out players with inadequate gear. You will still have to deal with players that have no idea what they are doing, lazy or with bad attitudes.

 

It sometimes take a while to get going but start advertising weekly PUG runs in general sponsored by your guild. You guys will host it with your own VOIP software and do the looting and leading. If you have your full 5 people on you only need 3 more. Through out the week have people posting in general a copy/pasted message with the time, date and intended OP/Diffculty then with the POC that people who are interested can contact.

 

This way you get a chance to make sure you have a good group makeup, talk with the people before hand and make sure you like them and want to spend X hours raiding with them. As well as make sure they understand the mechanics and are geared. After a while you don't even need to advertise because you will have a friend list full of players to pull in.

 

There are lots of players just like you that have alts or are unguilded that can do the content but don't want to deal with PUGs and the childish behavior you all avoid. Just need to find them and there is plenty of ways to do that in game already. As you said your in the minority because you choose to be so you are going to have to put work into doing content your group is too small for by finding other like minded people. I don't think the LFG system would be what you are looking for, you would be here in a week posting threads about ninja's and trolls too.

[uniz]

its not needed. a terrible player is still a terrible player whether or not he has the best gear or not. a terrible spec is a terrible spec whether or not he has the best gear or not. these people exist in these games and nothing will stop it. no gear check will ever solve this issue. gear check wont tell you if people know the strats either.

 

my guild finished 3 hard modes yesterday with 3 fresh 50s and one that wasn't. all were random hms. we did d7, battle of ilum and false emperor. finished them all and got our gear and coms. we used cc and didnt race our way through. the fourth toon was in full columi: not bh or campaign but COLUMI and it wasn't a tank. we know the strats and how to play and spec. we all had fun even if we died a few times. WE HAD FUN.

 

what is needed is a means to break down tier one hms into two. one for new 50s and the other for better geared ones. this way the less skilled can easily get gear and learn without getting booted by the campaign geared elitist racing through the zone getting their bh coms.

 

as far as ops well, pug raids are usually a fail fail in any game. with or without a lfg.