zoltarDO Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Why am I incessantly running my bounty hunter bodyguard around, day in and day out, trying to gear him up with war hero gear. The grind to me is beginning to not make sense. I am spending countless hours in warzones, which I do enjoy, grinding away at commendations, and for what? I don't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. All I see is more pvp. Nothing to grind towards. You work so hard to get to the top, or at least close to it, just to..... Wait for it.....PVP In the same warzones. It's sad but when fully geared nothing really changes... Oh yeah, I got some better stats. I understand that there is a fun factor. I guess I am just losing the point of it all. Maybe I could use a reminder, or maybe this is just the reality of MMO's in general regardless of which one. Honestly I just bought guild wars 2 the other day and have begun to second guess even that one. while the mechanics may be different, especially from a pvp standpoint, I fear that too will be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe I'm just getting a little bit old for this genre. I don't seem to be enjoying the time sink anymore. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baphomet_x Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) do what i do,have fun with the legacy system...work in secret trying to make a screenshot based re-imagining of the interface Edited July 7, 2012 by Baphomet_x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfreaq Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Generally speaking you are farming for better gear so that it will be easier to get better gear later. Then, after you get that great gear, a new item set appears, which is better than the old one, so the cycle starts all over again... Gear grinding is an outdated mmo mechanic which will hopefully disappear in the future (see GW2 for a slight step in the right direction). Bioware did an interesting thing with the orange gear. I wish that every item in the game is orange. In TOR the gear grinding is only slightly different from the classic one, but not developed enough to be an innovation. But the orange gear thingy can be improved in the future and I hope that Bioware does just that. Edited July 7, 2012 by cyberfreaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xGBox Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) You PvP because I assume you enjoy doing it. The gear is just an incentive for committing to that style of gameplay for an extended amount of time. If you don't enjoy what you're doing in SWTOR, I really don't understand why you would pay to play it. Edited July 7, 2012 by xGBox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 You PvP because I assume you enjoy doing it. The gear is just an incentive for committing to that style of gameplay for an extended amount of time. If you don't enjoy what you're doing in SWTOR, I really don't understand why you would pay to play it. I would extend and modify this a touch if you dont mind gbox, the op pvps because they enjoy the challange of pitting there skills against other players, the armour and gear is rewards given to players who participate in this game style and its not a case of grinding towards it but a reward for attaining that level of gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The grind is not fun when there is no point in doing it,by that i mean open world pvp that i like. Instance wz is only fun the first months after a game launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltarDO Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy wz pvp, but I think I am really starting to see and feel the redundancy in it. I have never really been involved with large scale open world pvp (I know swtor doesn't really have that yet) but I am certain I would enjoy it (only not as a healer:) talk about no chance of survival being caught alone). I think my future with this game may lie with grinding WH gear on a pvp server and seeking out open world on the unsuspecting (at least that is different and fun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lheim Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) You're doing it because you enjoy online, social games with large worlds.. yet, like a suprisingly large number of people, you're bored with the basic gear-grind mechanics that are foisted relentlessly atop that framework by the majority of recently released MMOs. Try switching your focus in game, or just.. admit you're looking for something else, really. And seriously, in before 'That's what MMOs are, newb' .. there's nothing inevitable about stats and gear grinding. It's a conscious design decision, done with surprisingly cynical marketing calculus, to get you to play longer and to feel that addictive 'reward' feeling as often as possible - which human beings do, despite the objective meaninglessness of the 'reward'. There are plenty of alternative possibilities. There are even games that work differently, so don't feed me 'inevitable'. Edited July 7, 2012 by Lheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeknomStun Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Personally I have taken an approach to just play to have fun, without focusing too much on gearing up. The gear will come regardless, but if you don't think about it too much it feels less like a grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwherbert Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) I play swtor a few times per week to raid with my guild and do a few pvp matches. The rest of the time, I play other games I will go back to playing swtor more when there's more content. You don't have to have the best gear in the game to enjoy it or to be competitive. Edited July 7, 2012 by bwherbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparklehorse Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Why am I incessantly running my bounty hunter bodyguard around, day in and day out, trying to gear him up with war hero gear. The grind to me is beginning to not make sense. I am spending countless hours in warzones,which I do enjoy, grinding away at commendations, and for what? I don't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. All I see is more pvp. Nothing to grind towards. You work so hard to get to the top, or at least close to it, just to..... Wait for it.....PVP In the same warzones. It's sad but when fully geared nothing really changes... Oh yeah, I got some better stats. I understand that there is a fun factor. I guess I am just losing the point of it all. Maybe I could use a reminder, or maybe this is just the reality of MMO's in general regardless of which one. Honestly I just bought guild wars 2 the other day and have begun to second guess even that one. while the mechanics may be different, especially from a pvp standpoint, I fear that too will be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe I'm just getting a little bit old for this genre. I don't seem to be enjoying the time sink anymore.I Thoughts? I don't get it. My thought is, you don't really know what you want. Either you enjoy the time sink or you don't. You can't really have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Playing for gear will eventually wear you out. Really this game is about alting and story. I thought I would run more flashpoints once 1.3 hit, but I found myself on my alts very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lheim Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Playing for gear will eventually wear you out. Really this game is about alting and story. I thought I would run more flashpoints once 1.3 hit, but I found myself on my alts very soon. Since 1.3, I'm actually SEEING some of the flashpoints for the first time ever. Even on my alts. I find it especially rewarding - 5-man content is my favorite sort of MMO content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I play swtor a few times per week to raid with my guild and do a few pvp matches. The rest of the time, I play other games I will go back to playing swtor more when there's more content. You don't have to have the best gear in the game to enjoy it or to be competitive. don't tell that to the min-maxers..LOL Yes play for whats fun to you, once a game feels like work to me my intrest fades fast. Tor started devlopment when the wow play model was still hot, now that allot of people are getting bored of the same ole things, time to start thinking out side the wow box..If I had a company with a wow clone type game underway, I would have some concern, or maybe even scrap the project if at all possible...time for something new other than grindy gear grinds, lets have some pvp that effect our faction, DAOC frontier style, just as a quick thought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 [/size][/size] don't tell that to the min-maxers..LOL Yes play for whats fun to you, once a game feels like work to me my intrest fades fast. Tor started devlopment when the wow play model was still hot, now that allot of people are getting bored of the same ole things, time to start thinking out side the wow box..If I had a company with a wow clone type game underway, I would have some concern, or maybe even scrap the project if at all possible...time for something new other than grindy gear grinds, lets have some pvp that effect our faction, DAOC frontier style, just as a quick thought.. One reason a lot of MMO companies try to copy WoW is because it has millions of subscribers. However many of them fail to copy what WoW does best at getting those millions of gamers. Even tho WoW has outdated graphics, it does allow a lot of players with low end machines to play it. And the game world feels alive. Npc's are conversing with each other a lot and walking around. Wildlife is doing things you would expect them to do in the real world. Wolves are killing deers and rabbits, butterflies are flying around the fields, weather effects, day and night cycles, etc, etc. All of this helps the player to get immersed into the game world. If you are going to try to copy something which will appeal to a lot of others, you need to copy "all" the good things it has and then add something different at the same time. TOR added some nice new features, but failed to keep all the other things which make MMO's succeed a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I feel you. BW get rid of this tiered crap and give crafting system some love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aricus Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) The grind is not fun when there is no point in doing it,by that i mean open world pvp that i like. Instance wz is only fun the first months after a game launch. Open world PvP is worst than Instance pvp. Why? Because it's mostly nothing but a zerg. Especially when it's a two faction system. Let me also add that open world PvP is at it's best in Sandbox MMO's where you venture out and can be killed or kill at anytime without very little anticipation. It doesn't work much in themepark MMO's where the game is centered around pve progression and of course gear. Also not to mention PvP is a niche. Yes I said it. Edited July 7, 2012 by Aricus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Let's be honest, here - most people like to advance their characters so that others, whether they be random people in the gameworld, guildmates, or real-life friends, can stand in awe of them. People like to compare achievements with each other, whether or not those achievements are physical or not. I've always said that the MMO genre is inherently not fun, from a gameplay perspective (and even if it is, that fun wears off soon). They are, at their core, about community. About playing with others, about comparing yourself to those around you - you cannot get that experience in a single-player game. If you are playing the game without a community, it is very easy to lose sight of the "point" of it all, since there simply isn't at that point. The trend in the genre to make these games more akin to single-player games (GW2 being a major offender) simply has me flabbergasted, as it is ultimately self-destructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparklehorse Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Let's be honest, here - most people like to advance their characters so that others, whether they be random people in the gameworld, guildmates, or real-life friends, can stand in awe of them. People like to compare achievements with each other, whether or not those achievements are physical or not. I've always said that the MMO genre is inherently not fun, from a gameplay perspective (and even if it is, that fun wears off soon). They are, at their core, about community. About playing with others, about comparing yourself to those around you - you cannot get that experience in a single-player game. If you are playing the game without a community, it is very easy to lose sight of the "point" of it all, since there simply isn't at that point. The trend in the genre to make these games more akin to single-player games (GW2 being a major offender) simply has me flabbergasted, as it is ultimately self-destructive. Spot on. I'd also add that community is the one unique thing an MMO can do. There used to be a time when, if a product had something unique that couldn't be delivered via any other means, it was a no brainer. Accentuate the pretty parts and all that. Edited July 7, 2012 by Sparklehorse to add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaTed Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Thoughts? Of all the MMOs I've played, I've gotten to the end-game exactly once - and I dropped that game like a hot potato. As others have said, end game grind in MMOs are really just a device to hold on to people who don't like alting, or who have already run as many alts as they'd care to. The point is to give you the illusion of something more to do, so that you stay subbed. I know I've reached my tolerance level for a game when I swtich from saying "I think I'll play <character name> tonight," to "I really should get <character name> to <some arbitrary point>." The former is about having fun; the latter is about chasing a carrot. Sometimes, people (myself included) mistake the carrot for the fun (and sometimes people even demand more carrots to chase... ). Anyway, when I realize I'm in it for the carrots, that's when I take a break, maybe play a single-player game, or maybe revisit an old MMO for which I still have fond memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltarDO Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 WoWsers! For some reason my email notification wasn't working :-) I didn't realize there were so many responses and I would like to thank everyone for their kind responses. I do seem to agree with the carrot theory and looking at it that way it seems like such a job unfortunately. I feel I may have to change my outlook on what I am trying to gain or take from the game as enjoyment. Up until recently I thought I was enjoying earning the best gear a pug player could get, but even that playstyle is not sustaining my interest. I do feel it has a lot to do with the genre and the idea that I have to pay more to play more. I guess it's getting hard to play knowing that I really am just being manipulated to keep my subscription up with the endless battle to obtain the carrot as the genre plays off of my addiction ( no different than a drug dealer). time to reassess :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Why am I incessantly running my bounty hunter bodyguard around, day in and day out, trying to gear him up with war hero gear. The grind to me is beginning to not make sense. I am spending countless hours in warzones, which I do enjoy, grinding away at commendations, and for what? I don't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. All I see is more pvp. Nothing to grind towards. You work so hard to get to the top, or at least close to it, just to..... Wait for it.....PVP In the same warzones. It's sad but when fully geared nothing really changes... Oh yeah, I got some better stats. I understand that there is a fun factor. I guess I am just losing the point of it all. Maybe I could use a reminder, or maybe this is just the reality of MMO's in general regardless of which one. Honestly I just bought guild wars 2 the other day and have begun to second guess even that one. while the mechanics may be different, especially from a pvp standpoint, I fear that too will be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe I'm just getting a little bit old for this genre. I don't seem to be enjoying the time sink anymore. Thoughts? That is because you are looking at the game as little more then running around grinding gear. This is not a shooter. This is an MMORPG, where enjoying content with friends is the intent of the game, not grinding gear. People do that with leveling. Rather then enjoy the ride they race as fast as they can and then feel like they are "grinding levels". Our raiding consists of having fun with our friends, not racing through and grinding gear. Many times we will pass on gear that we've won so that someone else that really needs it to keep up can do so. We've just lost a few people in our guild because we've gone back to EV and KP HM in order to gear a few new players. The people that we lost left because we were not doing it fast enough for them, not grinding boring dailies in order to outgear current content. They were too focused on gear and "winning". Fair enough. Best to them. We are there for the fun. It is the laughing, joking, raiding that keeps us playing, not the gear grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibdabs Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Why am I incessantly running my bounty hunter bodyguard around, day in and day out, trying to gear him up with war hero gear..(snip) and for what?.... (snip) when fully geared nothing really changes Oh, I realised this years ago in various MMOs and treat "end game" as the pointless exercise it is. All "end game" is is a lazy way for game designers to hide the fact that game content has run out. It's amazing how many players are happy with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFLsam Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) **** just play some FPS..or whatev for a change and learn to love online gaming all over again Edited July 8, 2012 by DFLsam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelThain Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I too am getting bored with the gear grind.It's got to the point I cant be bothered logging in.In swg you only really needed a couple sets of armour which you bought and modded yourself.I dont see a gear grind as an incentive to keep playing. I'm also fed up up doing the same 4 wz's day in and day out.Pve stuff does'nt really interest me that much apart from the class story.Think its time for a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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