No one Queuing for Rateds now? (Droogas)

[Vaipyr]

Also rated brought a lot of guild drama with certain classes being invited to the main group and others quietly shunned.

 

^

This.

[Maxkardinal]

1 player can NOT take credit in a 8man team pvp. You can be the best pvper in the world 2 times over, if you get teamed up with horrible pvp players you will lose.

 

So you basically roll the dice and pray to the RNG gods, that your team will not suck, giving you an auto lose.

 

Solo q pvp is not a skilled pvp part of the game, and can never be one.

 

Solo q pvp is : look at my RNG luck with team matchmaking while i avoid most of the good pvpers because of system design, excluding the chance you of meeting them.

 

How can anyone good at pvp that played solo q normal wz, even suggest solo q for ranked? Then assume that anything he "achieves" in it is more an indication of skill than valor rank.

 

How can you even put up with that torture? of solo q.

 

First of all different raitings and different queues are needed to seperate people like you from people like me.

 

I don't want to play with you and you dont want to play with me. We will be ruining each others impresions of the gameplay. I will be bored to loose over and over to a well coordinated premade and you will be bored destroying helpless pugs over and over.

 

Get a premade yourself - thats the most popular answer. And most redicilous.

 

I don't want to waste time to form a premade, to learn tactics and train rotations. I want to log in and stab some randoms with posoned knife or throw different objects in peoples faces. I "achive" entertaiment. Then log out and go to places where i "achive" another goals.

 

I dont want your precious "rating" i dont want your eleete gear. All i want is to never see you and play with people of my kind - casuals. And you are right that solo raiting (if devs want to add it so bad - ok) will only show how lucky you were in team balancing. But im ok with that ( idont give a ****).

 

If i ever want to enter your legue - i will invest required time.

[Dmasterr]

First of all different raitings and different queues are needed to seperate people like you from people like me.

 

I don't want to play with you and you dont want to play with me. We will be ruining each others impresions of the gameplay. I will be bored to loose over and over to a well coordinated premade and you will be bored destroying helpless pugs over and over.

 

Get a premade yourself - thats the most popular answer. And most redicilous.

 

I don't want to waste time to form a premade, to learn tactics and train rotations. I want to log in and stab some randoms with posoned knife or throw different objects in peoples faces. I "achive" entertaiment. Then log out and go to places where i "achive" another goals.

 

I dont want your precious "rating" i dont want your eleete gear. All i want is to never see you and play with people of my kind - casuals. And you are right that solo raiting (if devs want to add it so bad - ok) will only show how lucky you were in team balancing. But im ok with that ( idont give a ****).

 

If i ever want to enter your legue - i will invest required time.

 

Again. Why do you think normal WZ exist? if not for what you mentioned you want to do.

[Maxkardinal]

Again. Why do you think normal WZ exist? if not for what you mentioned you want to do.

 

As i understand, solo raiting WILL be emplanted.

 

In curret situations im perfectly fine with regular WZ. But if there will be 3 different brackets - there will be not enough people. So i announced my opinion in support of 2 differet brackets - solo and team.

 

If it will not - forget what i said - i will continue to not giving a **** about 'true pvp brothers' out there.

[Mournblood]

Here's the issue with RWZ from my perspective on my server (your experiences, perceptions, and mileage may vary).

 

There are perhaps 2-3 premade guild groups on our server that dominate RWZ, one of whch is undefeated. IMO, they dominate for three reasons:

1. They have full augmented WH geared players.

2. They stack class compositions that favor OP/FotM imbalance issues.

3. They are well coordinated. *

 

(* I'm excluding skill/competence/experience since those aren't as easy to quantify, and since PUG teams can have equally skilled/competent/experienced players, but it won't win them the match if they aren't as coordinated as their opposition. Player skill will only determine a match if all three factors listed above are equal between the two teams. That's my opinion based on my PvP experience. You don't have to agree with it.)

 

The teams that typically queue up against these premade guild teams are PUGs, usually comprised of many of the better geared and more skilled players from several different guilds. However, none of them are particularly well coordinated, and they often don't play together as a premade beyond occasionally seeing each other in random WZs. Individual guilds have tried to put together their own premade teams, with varying degrees of success. My guild, for example, has a good presence in WZ PvP, but very few of them are serious enough about it to actually get on Vent and practice our coordination. We are also not able to tailor our class composition since not everyone is on at the same time and the guild's focus is simply not on RWZ. Finally, not all of our players who PvP are full WH geared, as many of them are more focused on the PvE aspects of the game. I suspect the same is true for many other guilds.

 

The result is that the same 2-3 premade guild teams utterly dominate everyone queueing up against them, and while other teams may manage to win 1 or 2 out every 10 matches played, it gets very old very quickly losing so often. As more and more players become disinterested, the available pool of your better geared and more experienced PvPers shrinks, which then makes it even more difficult to put together a viable team. And it's a downward spiral from there.

 

The problem here is that most players (me included) don't find RWZ to be time well spent or very enjoyable. I have far more competitive matches in regular WZs than I ever did in RWZ. I have zero desire to spend my time feeding easy Rated comms and ego boosts to teams we can't beat simply because of poor coordination and poor class composition. Now, as I've already alluded to earlier, coordination and class composition issues are our problems, not the teams that are consistently winning. If I was truly serious about RWZ, I'd leave my guild and go find one that focuses on RWZ. But considering I'm full WH, the lure of faster Rated comms isn't sufficient incentive for me to do that. If I have more fun in regular WZs, which also happens to be much more accessible and forgiving in terms of casual PvPers, then that's where I'll be - and I don't have to leave my guild to do it. I think a majority of players who PvP fall into this category.

 

One of the ways I think BW can salvage this whole idea of RWZ is to allow them to be cross-server. If you have a larger pool of teams to play against, those who choose to focus on RWZ can do so and still have some actual competition to play against. The other issue is that there is no match-making system in place that moves the better teams up the ladder so that the newer teams have a chance to play against equally skilled teams and actually make some progress on increasing their own rating instead of simply being rating fodder for the more veteran teams, which of course will only work if enough players are participating in RWZ to begin with. Agree to disagree, but in its current state, RWZ is a doomed attempt to cater to a minority of former WoW Arena players, and while it could benefit from design and development changes to the queue system as I mentioned, at this point I'm not going to miss it if it dies a quiet death. I'm probably not alone in that sentiment.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Mournblood

[Sookster]

On Pot5 on the imp side, the number of 8man premades has fallen quite a bit, a few pvp based guilds I know hasn't run one in a couple weeks. I haven't been in a rated in about that long myself and I'm not interested in joining those LFG's from /pvp channel.

 

On the flip side, there's been a high number of WH aug'd players stomping regular warzones specifically targeting and /laughing at recruit and BM players.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Sookster

[Dmasterr]

A pvper who suffered the nightmare of solo queue, and having 90% chance of being teamed up with complete clueless ppl etc. Why would he want to go through that in rwz?

 

What will stop ppl from afking ? you can not votekick him if he is "guarding" an objective. Or he is picking his nose hitting some1 every 30 sec.

 

How is solo q RWZ any different than solo q normal WZ? since if they have separate q from 8man groups their rating will be meaningless.

 

Why do you think that ppl that now play 8man premades and dominate, will not solo queue ? Hey every1 can and will solo q till like last 2-3 weeks of the season, and then go for rank1 or w/e . So you will still meet ppl who do not drool over their keyboard for at least first half of the season.

 

etc.etc.

 

Solo q for ranked WZ, makes no sense.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Dmasterr]

Agree to disagree, but in its current state, RWZ is a doomed attempt to cater to a minority of former WoW Arena players, and while it could benefit from design and development changes to the queue system as I mentioned, at this point I'm not going to miss it if it dies a quiet death. I'm probably not alone in that sentiment.

 

what? if they wanted to cater to wow arena players, they would have implemented arena in swtor.

 

RWZ /RBG IS CRAP. There are no words to describe how different they are, how awesome arena is and how crap rwz is in comparison.

[Sharee]

1 player can NOT take credit in a 8man team pvp. You can be the best pvper in the world 2 times over, if you get teamed up with horrible pvp players you will lose.

 

So you basically roll the dice and pray to the RNG gods, that your team will not suck, giving you an auto lose.

 

After you play hundreds of matches, the effect of your team sucking or rocking will cancel out, and your rating will statistically only be dependent on your own performance.

 

On the other hand, a bad player playing in a premade of 7 good players will never get a bad rating that would reflect the fact he is bad, even after hundreds of matches.

 

Which means that solo rating is in fact a much better representation of individual players' skill than team rating.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Sharee

[Maxkardinal]

How is solo q RWZ any different than solo q normal WZ?

 

They are not.

 

Fail design is a fail design. Devs team have nothng created to offer (exept stories), they have copied and wreched stuff from all over MMOs world.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[fungihoujo]

Again. Why do you think normal WZ exist? if not for what you mentioned you want to do.

 

Because normal WZ are packed with WH geared premades- at the very least, solo queue rated will have no premades- and if you're getting WH gear quickly, the gear gap will be breached in a span that even casuals can manage.

[Kailaurius]

Most rated players/teams are fans of pvp obviously. And generally speaking, most of those players have left or are in the process of leaving the game.

 

There is no open world pvp, and only a few repetitive boring battlegrounds that after the 1000th time running, you want to kill yourself. Ranked warzones will become very old, very fast...........just watch........

 

 

If you think the ques are terrible now, wait a couple of weeks.............../shrug

 

This can NOT be overstated. The longer they go without adding any PvP content to this game the more PvP players are gonna leave.

[PloGreen]

Regular WZ, where getting gear to be on par with the bored premades in full WH will take you hundreds of hours of being roflstomped?

 

Yes, I can see people doing that- people love having no fun for huge amounts of time just to get gear that'll make them viable right after new gear that'll take them hundreds of more hours of time to get comes out.

 

How about instead of 'if you want to solo queue go do regular WZ', let's say what'll actually happen.

 

"If you want to play competitive pvp where you can just leap in and have fun and not face some massive disadvantage that people who have hundreds of more hours to waste than you do- go play another mmorpg that lets you just hop into pvp and have fun."

 

If only such an mmo was coming out on August 28th.

 

Hmm, let's see what the people think. Hello there, you look like the type of person who only plays a few hours a week. What would you rather do? Know you'll never be at the gear level of others, and all the while be nothing but fodder for hundreds of hours trying to reach their gear level.... or jump into a match minutes after installing the game and be on equal footing with every single other player.

 

Yes, let us keep the 'if you do not like it go away' motto for this game's pvp. I'm sure BW is exceptionally pleased with how their metrics are working- I wonder if their share holders are happy with the metrics though... the ones that are saying their subs are bleeding out like a waterfall.

 

Sigh... Competitve pvp in ranked warzones are to determine your rank, nothing more than that. In which case they are working as intended - if you are a noob, badly geared, lack a team, lack pvp experience you will be awarded the rating according to your win loss ratio e.g a crap one. So therefore all these "true pvpers" that thought lack of gear was holding them back still got killed when they got some decent gear by people who actually play the pvp side of the game well, and have stopped queing. Because those full war heros already got war hero gear from unranked warzones in the time it took ranked to release from 1.2. Most of the best teams are already geared before 1.3 anyway, so they did the same "terrible grind" i hear "true pvpers" complain about all the time.

 

The only people that will queue for ranked are proper teams with voice comms who are used to playing together, and the odd random general chat pug that will implode as soon as they meet an organized team. This was meant to appeal to dedicated pvpers, of course they were going to come out on top because the last 4 months we have had the opposite - catering to casuals, dumbing down of classes, buffs and massive nerfs to classes, welfare gear and free money etc. Casual players have had alot of bones thrown in their direction, and the minute something which alot of us who play competitive pvp wants comes along - the reality check comes in, those people who are well geared are more than likely the best pvpers on your server anyway and play in the best teams - you dont stand a chance of beating them if you are unprepared. So out comes the threads complaining about competition having what you do not, how this is the reason you cant compete etc etc. If you want to compete with those players put the same time in that they did - if your not prepared to do that wait for the next tier set to come out with season 1 where you wil be able to buy war hero with comms. Even if we all started the gear grind fomr zero those people you claim are better only coz of gear will still gear up faster than you, simply because they are better than you, they win more often, and gain gear faster.

 

Basically if you are not prepared to do what those people that you envy/despise so much did, then you do not deserve to have what they have. If you dont have the time or have a busy life etc (I work a 44 hour week, and dj at night so I dunno how you can be so busy) then maybe you should consider not playing a trinity based time-sink mmo, which is what this is and play a game that rewards you every time you play - like one of the claw games you get in motorway service stations that pick up a bunny for 2 quid.

[PloGreen]

Because normal WZ are packed with WH geared premades- at the very least, solo queue rated will have no premades- and if you're getting WH gear quickly, the gear gap will be breached in a span that even casuals can manage.

 

"packed with premades". Storm in a teacup methinks.

 

Unranked warzones are packed with noobs, not premades.

[PloGreen]

After you play hundreds of matches, the effect of your team sucking or rocking will cancel out, and your rating will statistically only be dependent on your own performance.

 

On the other hand, a bad player playing in a premade of 7 good players will never get a bad rating that would reflect the fact he is bad, even after hundreds of matches.

 

Which means that solo rating is in fact a much better representation of individual players' skill than team rating.

 

A solo rating does not determine player skill, it simply determines how many games you have won or lost. If you play solo, you will more than likely lose more than you win, so good luck with that.

[Veniras]

"packed with premades". Storm in a teacup methinks.

 

Unranked warzones are packed with noobs, not premades.

 

Depends on the server sweetie. Depends on the server. We have a lot of "Ranked waiting for a pop, but premaking in unranked in the meantime" on mine. It's disheartening and not funny.

 

I'd take any queue-time just to know I was getting into an equal PUG VS PUG fight, instead of a fast pop and getting into a unfair matching.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Veniras

[PloGreen]

Depends on the server sweetie. Depends on the server. We have a lot of "Ranked waiting for a pop, but premaking in unranked in the meantime" on mine. It's disheartening and not funny.

 

I dont believe that every game you play in unranked warzones is a full premade, I dont believe that one game in 2 is a full premade. I do believe that you will meet people in better gear than yourself who you think are premades, but anyone saying unranked warzones are "packed full of premades" is streching the truth to breaking point.

[RiseOfDeath]

Go on your server forums and make a thread where you guys discuss, as a community, when you want to all queue for rated games.

 

For example, we all agreed to queue at 7pm, at least a couple nights during the week (Tuesday and Thursday, and on weekends).

 

Besides those days, when we get on we'll always be queuing at ~7pm, so if you're not on on any of those days, such as on a Monday, just wait until 7 and there's always people queuing.

 

---

 

This has helped my server imo.

Edited July 7, 2012 by RiseOfDeath

[Sorenia]

The problem with rateds right now is totally chicken and the egg. Nobody is going to queue when high rated teams are allowed to stomp on low rated players. Yet the matchmaker clearly has some sort of retarded logic that lets high rated teams do so if they wait long enough in queue.

 

They need to change the logic such that high rated teams NEVER get to play against low rated teams no matter how long they wait. This will increase the pool of people queueing which will eventually filter up into better groups.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Here's the issue with RWZ from my perspective on my server (your experiences, perceptions, and mileage may vary).

 

There are perhaps 2-3 premade guild groups on our server that dominate RWZ, one of whch is undefeated. IMO, they dominate for three reasons:

1. They have full augmented WH geared players.

2. They stack class compositions that favor OP/FotM imbalance issues.

3. They are well coordinated. *

 

(* I'm excluding skill/competence/experience since those aren't as easy to quantify, and since PUG teams can have equally skilled/competent/experienced players, but it won't win them the match if they aren't as coordinated as their opposition. Player skill will only determine a match if all three factors listed above are equal between the two teams. That's my opinion based on my PvP experience. You don't have to agree with it.)

 

The teams that typically queue up against these premade guild teams are PUGs, usually comprised of many of the better geared and more skilled players from several different guilds. However, none of them are particularly well coordinated, and they often don't play together as a premade beyond occasionally seeing each other in random WZs. Individual guilds have tried to put together their own premade teams, with varying degrees of success. My guild, for example, has a good presence in WZ PvP, but very few of them are serious enough about it to actually get on Vent and practice our coordination. We are also not able to tailor our class composition since not everyone is on at the same time and the guild's focus is simply not on RWZ. Finally, not all of our players who PvP are full WH geared, as many of them are more focused on the PvE aspects of the game. I suspect the same is true for many other guilds.

 

The result is that the same 2-3 premade guild teams utterly dominate everyone queueing up against them, and while other teams may manage to win 1 or 2 out every 10 matches played, it gets very old very quickly losing so often. As more and more players become disinterested, the available pool of your better geared and more experienced PvPers shrinks, which then makes it even more difficult to put together a viable team. And it's a downward spiral from there.

 

The problem here is that most players (me included) don't find RWZ to be time well spent or very enjoyable. I have far more competitive matches in regular WZs than I ever did in RWZ. I have zero desire to spend my time feeding easy Rated comms and ego boosts to teams we can't beat simply because of poor coordination and poor class composition. Now, as I've already alluded to earlier, coordination and class composition issues are our problems, not the teams that are consistently winning. If I was truly serious about RWZ, I'd leave my guild and go find one that focuses on RWZ. But considering I'm full WH, the lure of faster Rated comms isn't sufficient incentive for me to do that. If I have more fun in regular WZs, which also happens to be much more accessible and forgiving in terms of casual PvPers, then that's where I'll be - and I don't have to leave my guild to do it. I think a majority of players who PvP fall into this category.

 

One of the ways I think BW can salvage this whole idea of RWZ is to allow them to be cross-server. If you have a larger pool of teams to play against, those who choose to focus on RWZ can do so and still have some actual competition to play against. The other issue is that there is no match-making system in place that moves the better teams up the ladder so that the newer teams have a chance to play against equally skilled teams and actually make some progress on increasing their own rating instead of simply being rating fodder for the more veteran teams, which of course will only work if enough players are participating in RWZ to begin with. Agree to disagree, but in its current state, RWZ is a doomed attempt to cater to a minority of former WoW Arena players, and while it could benefit from design and development changes to the queue system as I mentioned, at this point I'm not going to miss it if it dies a quiet death. I'm probably not alone in that sentiment.

 

Nope. You're not alone in thinking like this. It completely sums up RWZ in my opinion.

[PloGreen]

The problem with rateds right now is totally chicken and the egg. Nobody is going to queue when high rated teams are allowed to stomp on low rated players. Yet the matchmaker clearly has some sort of retarded logic that lets high rated teams do so if they wait long enough in queue.

 

They need to change the logic such that high rated teams NEVER get to play against low rated teams no matter how long they wait. This will increase the pool of people queueing which will eventually filter up into better groups.

 

No it does not have "retarded logic". There arent enough teams to rate you against, I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

 

As for high rated teams being "allowed" to stomp on low rated ones, well that they are called "ranked warzones" for a reason, the only thing allowing them to stomp on you is your team - how good they are and how well geared they are. They did not start out with a high-rating they difference is they did not lose most of their games. Until there is a larger pool of teams to choose from this is the way it will be and why bioware never released another tier of gear I would imagine.

[jolleebindu]

Oh, you hopping for a separate queue? dream on.

 

A pvp ladder with ranking ceases to be accurate if you exclude half the pvp players from it.

 

"look guys i has 2500 rating, and did it all by never facing anyone remotely interested in pvp, because they played 8man premades and i solo queued.":rolleyes: -> i am pro right? /lol

 

Just a thought, but it would likely give a better impression of your own skill. If it was just solo queued teams the average would be something like 1 to 1 over many many games. Your ability to assist your team would eventually show up in a shifted ratio.

 

However with only the same premade, your own contribution may drag the team down, but they could still carry you.

 

While only queued with other solo players this would have a noticeable affect on your long term rating, while (depending on your premade) it may not.

[jolleebindu]

I dont believe that every game you play in unranked warzones is a full premade, I dont believe that one game in 2 is a full premade. I do believe that you will meet people in better gear than yourself who you think are premades, but anyone saying unranked warzones are "packed full of premades" is streching the truth to breaking point.

 

Depends on the time of the day/week/server. It could happen but isn't likely in general.

[jolleebindu]

A solo rating does not determine player skill, it simply determines how many games you have won or lost. If you play solo, you will more than likely lose more than you win, so good luck with that.

 

only if solo que's are allowed to go against premades. Then you can throw any of that reasoning out the window. Otherwise it makes sense.

[jolleebindu]

why are so many people obsessed with solo queing in online games?? Mind boggling to me can't stand it in this Bf3 call of duty or whatever game. I play online to play with like minded people. Not scrubs who want to afk to top perks or gear. Anyway..

 

I've heard of rated drama for sure. Part of it is bioware part is unrealistic people and some is guild leaders. Class balance don't get me started. there should be cross server by now. Also guilds shouldn't have shunned classes in pre season. There will be nerfs and buffs. Mercs or whoever could be owning in a patch later. Idk a lot has been wrong with this game. Bioware needs to get on the ball. Maybe with cross server the solo queuer can have their solo ranked and the teams can have an actual player pool

 

Because sometimes my guildmates and friends are on, and others they aren't.