Sength and power for sentinel

[Zion_Ninja]

Just can't seem to find anyplace on theorycrafting with when is it preferred to use power over strength. I have over 2000 strength with buffs/stims and I have 78% surge 38% crit and 103% Acc. With all augments of strength and some surge. Would it be better to change from strength to power augments? Is there a strength cap to where power is better?

 

Thanks in advance.

[bliapis]

Just can't seem to find anyplace on theorycrafting with when is it preferred to use power over strength. I have over 2000 strength with buffs/stims and I have 78% surge 38% crit and 103% Acc. With all augments of strength and some surge. Would it be better to change from strength to power augments? Is there a strength cap to where power is better?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

definitelly. go with 18power/12end ones.

 

how much max damage u have and how much force power?

[Arakasii]

Just can't seem to find anyplace on theorycrafting with when is it preferred to use power over strength. I have over 2000 strength with buffs/stims and I have 78% surge 38% crit and 103% Acc. With all augments of strength and some surge. Would it be better to change from strength to power augments? Is there a strength cap to where power is better?

 

Thanks in advance.

You won't go wrong with either strength or power, but strength is (supposedly) slightly better for all attainable levels of strength. You are very strongly into diminishing returns for surge, so you should not put surge on any of your augments. For theorycrafting, check out sithwarrior.com.

[Arkerus]

As far as I understand it, go for STR over power because STR not only buffs your overall damage but adds points to crit as well. STR is a direct boost to combat damage, just like power.

 

Power is a close second.

 

If someone know this to be incorrect, please by all means explain. Willing to listen!

Edited July 7, 2012 by Arkerus

[Bu-jin]

Isn't the strength cap at 1600? If you have 1600 strength wouldn't it be pointless to keep stacking it with diminishing returns?

[R_Sidriel]

Strength gives a .20 bonus damage boost and a small percentage to crit.

 

Power gives a .23 bonus damage boost.

 

Theoretically, it would be better to stack power instead of strength, just because of the pure amount of crit that we have.

 

That's the watchman spec though.

[Bu-jin]

Don't we want more crit as watchmen? Wouldn't the strength be better because of our dots? Edited July 7, 2012 by Bu-jin

[Arkerus]

Isn't the strength cap at 1600? If you have 1600 strength wouldn't it be pointless to keep stacking it with diminishing returns?

 

I didn't think there was a cap on your natural stats. Why would they do that? Can someone confirm if this is true or not?

[xiphaz]

where do you people get this info from, there is no cap on main stat,, strength> power end of story. can belive how many topics there are about this, its not even debatable

[Bu-jin]

Someone else posted that the main attributes have a cap before diminishing return hits. I would like to know if this is true as well

[DarthBama]

where do you people get this info from, there is no cap on main stat,, strength> power end of story. can belive how many topics there are about this, its not even debatable

 

Not correct. The only reason you would stack strength over power is for the crit bonus strength gives you. While the bonus damage you get from does not have a cap, the crit bonus from strength definitely caps. The bonus damage you get from power is 15% greater.

[Aurojiin]

Not correct. The only reason you would stack strength over power is for the crit bonus strength gives you. While the bonus damage you get from does not have a cap, the crit bonus from strength definitely caps. The bonus damage you get from power is 15% greater.

Unlike the contribution from critical rating, the crit from Strength has very low DR. You'd have to reach a truly ridiculous amount of Strength before it became significant.

[Bu-jin]

Unlike the contribution from critical rating, the crit from Strength has very low DR. You'd have to reach a truly ridiculous amount of Strength before it became significant.

 

What's a ridiculous amount of strength to you?

[Bu-jin]

Not correct. The only reason you would stack strength over power is for the crit bonus strength gives you. While the bonus damage you get from does not have a cap, the crit bonus from strength definitely caps. The bonus damage you get from power is 15% greater.

 

So what would you suggest then? Strength or power for watchman?

[TheOfficialGOAT]

So what would you suggest then? Strength or power for watchman?

 

If you play Watchmen go Power. It increases all damage more including DoTs and with that spec you have 100% Crit up at all times.

[Aurojiin]

What's a ridiculous amount of strength to you?

I'd ballpark at least 6,000.

 

If you play Watchmen go Power. It increases all damage more including DoTs and with that spec you have 100% Crit up at all times.

While I agree with the premise that crit chance is less important for Watchmen, it's not that clear-cut. Zen is not "up at all times".

Edited July 8, 2012 by Aurojiin

[Hypoxica]

I personally stack Power. Since Strength hits DR's at 1800ish, Power has no DR's. The way i calculate my dmg output is via bonus dmg. If you do the math, for every 1 bonus dmg, it takes 5 strength, however, it takes 4 power to make 1 bonus dmg. It takes 22 strength to gain 1 crit%.

 

On my fully WH/augmented pvp geared sentinel. I have 1654 strength, Almost 19k HP, 567 bonus dmg, 1022 main hand dmg, and 885 force bonus dmg. I have 30% crit, and 76% surge. I am watchmen build and my merc strike hits for 5k. in focus i can hit for 7k consistantly.

 

As far as stacking Strength goes, its not a bad idea, but you do lose more main hand dmg. Its funny how people different styles for builds go. But i just prefer MOAR POWER!

 

 

Sri'Lara (the OTHER GM of Uncensored) {Jedi Covanant}

[gunte]

where do you people get this info from, there is no cap on main stat,, strength> power end of story. can belive how many topics there are about this, its not even debatable

 

Pure ignorance, stop making comments if you dont know what your talking about.

 

Power adds 0.23 to bonus damage per point

Strength adds 0.2 bonus damage per point

 

Neither have any diminishing returns in this regard, so for pure damage increase, power is the way to go

 

However Strength also adds a small bonus to crit chance. This curve DOES have DR granted its not very steep. However i recommend going for power augments if you are watchman and in campaign/black hole gear as you should have well enough crit chance from the rest of your gear if modded correctly.

 

The differance is very small though and you are fine with either strength or power augments or a mixture of both.

[Bu-jin]

Pure ignorance, stop making comments if you dont know what your talking about.

 

Power adds 0.23 to bonus damage per point

Strength adds 0.2 bonus damage per point

 

Neither have any diminishing returns in this regard, so for pure damage increase, power is the way to go

 

However Strength also adds a small bonus to crit chance. This curve DOES have DR granted its not very steep. However i recommend going for power augments if you are watchman and in campaign/black hole gear as you should have well enough crit chance from the rest of your gear if modded correctly.

 

The differance is very small though and you are fine with either strength or power augments or a mixture of both.

 

 

Extremely helpful post. Thank you for posting

[bliapis]

On my fully WH/augmented pvp geared sentinel. I have 1654 strength, Almost 19k HP, 567 bonus dmg, 1022 main hand dmg, and 885 force bonus dmg. I have 30% crit, and 76% surge. I am watchmen build and my merc strike hits for 5k. in focus i can hit for 7k consistantly.

 

You started out fine then you begun to stutter a bit and in the end you went totally of the rail.

 

easy there chief!

[DarkkLoki]

Any tips for Combat Sentinels? I mean, I just switched to Combat from Watchmen for a switch but I have been stacking power augments so I was wondering if I should consider continuing along that path.

[LagunaD]

For either Combat or Watchman, Strength and Power are within about 5% of each other in overall DPS effect, but Strength is always better for any currently attainable gear level.

 

In addition to the critical bonus, Strength is buffed twice (+5% to the stat from Consular buff, then +5% to the resulting damage bonus from the Knight buff), while Power is only buffed once. So in terms of the damage bonus alone, the numbers to compare are 0.2415/Power vs. 0.2205/Strength. But the bigger your damage bonus (and thus, the bigger your base damage), the more valuable critical chance becomes.

 

DR on the critical bonus from primary stats is very minor. At 2000 Strength, you are still getting about 2/3's of the raw Critical Bonus (i.e. compared to no DR).

 

I have run a full simulation of days of combat, but you can see how Strength makes up the difference in damage bonus by doing a fairly simple calculation.

 

Suppose, with your current stats, with buffs, an ability does tooltip damage X and has a damage bonus coefficient of 1.5 (this is approximately the value for abilities like Blade Rush and Blade Storm). And suppose you have a choice of 14x (+16 Power) or (+16 Strength) augments (+224 of either stat).

 

With +224 Power, the base damage of the ability (including the Knight buff) will be about X+81

 

With +224 Strength, the base damage of the ability (including the Knight and Consular buffs) will be X+74

 

Lets suppose you have a 33% Critical Chance, and a 75% Critical Multiplier bonus (a number of key abilities gain added critical damage from talents, which makes Strength's critical bonus even better, but we will ignore that).

 

With Power, the expected damage of the ability is then (X +81)*(1+0.33*0.75) = (X + 81)*1.25 = 1.25*X + 101

 

With Strength, assuming you have around 2K Strength, 224 Strength will increase your critical chance by about 1.2%. So the expected damage is (X + 74) * (1+0.342*0.75) = 1.2565*X + 93.

 

The difference (Strength - Power) is then:

 

0.0065*X - 8

 

So strength will win (i.e. the difference will be positive) when:

 

0.0065 * X > 8, or when X > 1230

 

At level 50, abilities that matter have a base tooltip damage > 1200; hence, for those abilities, Strength beats Power.

 

Power benefits from a high coefficient, but abilities with a high coefficient also have high tooltip damage.

 

Master Strike, for instance, has a coefficient of around 3 (rather than the 1.5 I assumed above), so the damage difference (Strength - Power) in that case is:

 

0.0065*X - 16

 

But X is several thousand for Master Strike, and Strength still wins.

Edited July 9, 2012 by LagunaD

[DarkkLoki]

So strength wins, but not by that much if I am understanding you correctly? And that's due to the crit bonus from strength? Other than that, power helps more? I have 2 power augments already and would hate to think that I spent those credits for nothing.

[Sarezar]

I just wanted to say here that I hate how complicated it becomes to figure out on your own what stats to use.

 

Sure, you can say "add your main stat, you can't lose". And sure, I can also do the math needed for most theoretical calculations.

 

But I shouldn't have to dammit! Why would they create such a complicated way to build a character that requires a calculator and a few hours typing in numbers in Excel... Before I did all this, I spent so many expensive ingredients to craft Power augments, then I did the calculations and got so disappointed... Such a punishing game.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, Str > Power always. Even if you have "enough crit" you will always get even more Crit with Strength which, in conjuction to the damage boost that Strength also get, will mathematically increase your damage by more than if you had the equivalent Power increase.

 

 

EDIT: I could be completely wrong about this but if I remember correctly, crit hits cannot be shielded. If I am right about this, Str becomes even better than Power. If I am wrong, please ignore this

Edited July 10, 2012 by Sarezar

[Bu-jin]

I just wanted to say here that I hate how complicated it becomes to figure out on your own what stats to use.

 

Sure, you can say "add your main stat, you can't lose". And sure, I can also do the math needed for most theoretical calculations.

 

But I shouldn't have to dammit! Why would they create such a complicated way to build a character that requires a calculator and a few hours typing in numbers in Excel... Before I did all this, I spent so many expensive ingredients to craft Power augments, then I did the calculations and got so disappointed... Such a punishing game.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, Str > Power always. Even if you have "enough crit" you will always get even more Crit with Strength which, in conjuction to the damage boost that Strength also get, will mathematically increase your damage by more than if you had the equivalent Power increase.

 

 

EDIT: I could be completely wrong about this but if I remember correctly, crit hits cannot be shielded. If I am right about this, Str becomes even better than Power. If I am wrong, please ignore this

 

 

I thought the crit that you get from strength has a cap where diminishing return hits? I apologize if I'm making this more difficult to understand. I agree with your post too about making it too complicated. How do you know when your strength has enhanced your character with enough crit where it would be better to switch to power?