Juggernaut Questions From A Noob

[Cavell]

Howdy folks.

 

So I'm two days into TOR, and it's finally time to turn my Sith Warrior into a Sith something else. To be honest, I'd probably go with Marauder, as they seem to sort of be the berserkers of the bunch, if it weren't for 1) dual lightsabers, which looks dumb, 2) their robes and slipper armor makes them look like residents of a gothy retirement home, and 3) there appear to be five Marauders for every Juggernaut.

 

So, I'm leaning towards the Juggernaut. The problem is, though, I'm just all tanked out. Tanked in WoW, tanked in AoC, tanked in WAR...I just don't want to do it anymore. Every now and then, in a pinch, sure, but I'll happily leave it up to others.

 

Which brings me to my questions:

 

1) Are Juggernauts who aren't tanking just wastes of space?

 

2) Their DPS, near as I can tell, isn't all that hot even going up a DPS tree. True?

 

3) They seem to do alright in PVP, though even there Marauders sound like they do a little better. True?

 

4) Leveling. Everyone says it sucks due to how slowly you kill. This accurate? This is probably the real deal-breaker for me; I've leveled horribly-underpowered-in-the-beginning classes for their endgame utility before, and it just sucks balls.

 

Thanks in advance, gents.

[epicfear]

Juggernaut dps in their dps tree is significantly less than that of a maurauder, but marauders are over the top anyway. you still have reasonable dps (though lower than standard) and significantly more survivability as a juggernaut, not to mention it spares you the expense of having to upgrade an offhand lightsaber alongside your mainhand.

[Cavell]

Juggernaut dps in their dps tree is significantly less than that of a maurauder, but marauders are over the top anyway. you still have reasonable dps (though lower than standard) and significantly more survivability as a juggernaut, not to mention it spares you the expense of having to upgrade an offhand lightsaber alongside your mainhand.

Lower than standard? What's the standard?

 

That all makes the Jug sound a lot like the (vanilla) WoW paladin - low DPS, high survivability. Having played that class for a while, it's not an experience I'd look forward to again.

[Skendra]

till lvl 50 i'll play tank spec coz of survivability but dps during lvling isn't that low. sure, you wont kill fast as marauder but you wont be stuck on 1 mob for days... but in full dps gear and spec, juggs can do tons of dmg with reasonable def buffs (marauder still has better ones -.-)

[Hunterftw]

I play a rage jugg and my burst damage is great and I'm not even full WH. Most of the time I lead or am close to leading damage. And it is nothing like a ret pally or prot pally.

[Bare-Giin]

Juggernaut dps in their dps tree is significantly less than that of a maurauder, but marauders are over the top anyway. you still have reasonable dps (though lower than standard) and significantly more survivability as a juggernaut, not to mention it spares you the expense of having to upgrade an offhand lightsaber alongside your mainhand.

 

Well thats NOT true at all, tired of ppl who dosent know what they speak of opens their mouth's.. once u get to 50 juggernauts can crush anything.. but I'll recomend that u lvl as Vengeance tho, it might be slightly lower dps than mara when leveling up but its sure NO problem at all, very easy to lvl with a healer companion that u get around lvl 16..

 

Im valor rank 86 Rage juggernaut full war hero gear and a Rage marauder in my guild who is around the same valor rank and has slighlty better gear than me, he has a little better optimized with his mods and stuff..but the thing is I almost always get like at least 50k more damage than him in every wz we attend , thats cuz juggs hit harder than maras, when I smash for 6-7k he smash for like 5.5k (this is after the patch btw).. .. Vengeance is also fully viable in both pve and pvp but i just prefer the high burst dmg of Rage, so dont listen to guys like this who says juggs cant dps cuz thats NOT true..

[JamieM]

1) Are Juggernauts who aren't tanking just wastes of space?

 

Not true

 

2) Their DPS, near as I can tell, isn't all that hot even going up a DPS tree. True?

 

Not true. DPS Juggs can do very decent DPS but are extremely gear reliant so high numbers only really begin to materialise once you start getting into Rakata/Battlemaster territory. On paper an equally geared and equally skilled marauder will do more damage per second than an equally geared and equally skilled DPS Juggernaut. But a well played PvE Jugg can get as high as 2k dps in some encounters with all BiS. You just have to be very good and extremely well geared and optimised.

 

3) They seem to do alright in PVP, though even there Marauders sound like they do a little better. True?

 

Define better? Juggs and Marauders have differing jobs in PvP and benefit the teams they are in in different ways. A marauder is more effective at simply killing things quickly though (all things being equal etc).

 

4) Leveling. Everyone says it sucks due to how slowly you kill. This accurate? This is probably the real deal-breaker for me; I've leveled horribly-underpowered-in-the-beginning classes for their endgame utility before, and it just sucks balls.

 

This is kind of true. Juggs are very backloaded when it comes to their abilities, and they really only come into their own in my opinion after level 30 or so when you get a few of our signature abilities / talents. This is also true with gearing as you will notice a massive jump in our overall killing speed once you start getting a few Rakata pieces. If you are planning to level as DPS (Vengeance or Rage) I have one piece of advice: use Quinn as your companion as soon as you get him and gear him up as often as you can - this will make all the difference in the world to your levelling experience.

 

I am biased: I love playing as a DPS Jugg and have never looked back since my first EV run. They aren't an easy DPS class to master that's for sure (neither for that matter are marauders) but when you get the hang of what you're doing they are simply a joy to play both in PvP and PvE.

Edited July 4, 2012 by JamieM

[Cavell]

So, from the sound of it, a Juggernaut probably wouldn't be recommended for someone who primarily solos, joins the occasional PUG to see instances, and likely will not get involved in much endgame raiding or PVP?

[JamieM]

So, from the sound of it, a Juggernaut probably wouldn't be recommended for someone who primarily solos, joins the occasional PUG to see instances, and likely will not get involved in much endgame raiding or PVP?

 

I'd say that's a fair assessment. If you just want to dip in and dip out then probably best pick another advanced class as your Jugg will be pretty under-powered until you start doing ops and/or doing enough pvp to get BM gear.

Edited July 5, 2012 by JamieM

[Cavell]

I'd say that's a fair assessment. If you just want to dip in and dip out then probably best pick another advanced class as your Jugg will be pretty under-powered until you start doing ops and/or doing enough pvp to get BM gear.

 

I was afraid of that. Ah, well. ******* dual-wielding and bathrobe armor, here I come.

[AMulls]

Here's my take on the Juggernaut. It's fun. You get awesome looking heavy armor. You are more versatile than a Marauder. You can do pretty good DPS, and you're not nearly as squishy as a Marauder. You can "stance dance" depending on the situation, which will increase survivability when necessary without needing a complete respec. Just focus on Might gear to get your strength and power up there.

 

To those that say leveling is slow, I disagree. With Quinn, I almost never had to stop between fights. And as you progress, your DPS gets better and better. And seeing the huge hits you can drop on mobs is pretty cool. You also have taunts that you can use to help groupmates in a pinch.

 

So, if you're not looking to do serious raiding (where DPS stats get examined) and just want survivability and fun to do group content and solo stuff, I'd say go Jugg. Especially if you don't want to deal with dual sabers.

 

PS: I have a lvl 50 Vengeance specced Jugg in Columi and Tionese gear. I haven't gotten too far in my raiding, but so far have done okay, and haven't gotten any complaints from guildies on my DPS. And was even able to off-tank a bit in EV when I had to.

Edited July 5, 2012 by AMulls

[Cavell]

Let me say thanks again for all the replies, guys. I appreciate the info.

 

I dunno. I really do want to want to choose the Jugg, as the look's just better, and one saber's classier than two, but...there's just too many reports of Jugg leveling being painfully slow, DPS being terribad until you're in awesomesauce gear, etc. I've done that before, just dunno if I really want to do it again, especially when there's a (comparatively) ready-out-of-the-box solution in the Marauder. I can learn to accept two sabers, but the armor's always going to look absurd.

[Elyx]

Let me say thanks again for all the replies, guys. I appreciate the info.

 

I dunno. I really do want to want to choose the Jugg, as the look's just better, and one saber's classier than two, but...there's just too many reports of Jugg leveling being painfully slow, DPS being terribad until you're in awesomesauce gear, etc. I've done that before, just dunno if I really want to do it again, especially when there's a (comparatively) ready-out-of-the-box solution in the Marauder. I can learn to accept two sabers, but the armor's always going to look absurd.

 

Go for it Cav. Jamie's assesement is very fair and well made. But in spite of these realities, my first serious class was my Jugg, and I have never really had problems with it.

 

Most PuG's for FP's as you level are happy enough getting a tank that they don't care. I've never been kicked or ignored at all. Killing may be a bit slower under 30, but the class is so enjoyable to play I could have cared less. I have 2 50 juggs atm, two more in their 30's, and a few in their teens. Never had a hitch leveling them. Blast to play, the armor looks great...

 

And in all actuality, whats more important? that it takes you an extra 5 seconds to down a mob, or that you enjoy the process. if you have to grit your teeth to play your toon, then IMO your wasting the whole time it takes to kill the mob. would you rather spend 5 seconds killing a mob on a class you don't like, or 7-10 seconds killing the same mob on a class that you find fun to play?

 

And in all honesty, post 30 Jugg's pick up with the other classes, and post 40 I found my jugg killing things easier then all my others. their combination of survivability and damage allows you to deal with groups that my other classes have a hard time on. and once you hit 50 and start to gear up, I doubt you'll regret your decision.

 

So I'd go with a Jugg. start with Vengeance (very fun spec), and later on you can try the others. a vengeance build with quinn in the background makes you feel very invincible. and after all, no matter how fast you get to 50, the road there should be an enjoyable one. I don't think there's anything in end game that is worth sacrificing your enjoyment on the way there.

[Nilmot]

I have to disagree with the slow/painful leveling opinions. I have a 50 sent (mara equivalent) who of course kills fast, but was somewhat of a glass cannon leveling up. I needed to use the recharge ability after most fights. With my 27 jugg you kill a bit slower, but I almost never need to sit and recharge. I think it balances out. I'm tank specc'd but that doesn't impact survivability too much. I do run with a DPS companion; I find the healer completely unnecessary unless I want to kill a champion level mob or multiple elites.

[Cavell]

I think I'm going to have to just roll one of both. I prefer the aesthetics of the Juggernaut by a factor of around a thousand, but Marauders just seem...well, too damn good. Easier leveling, deadlier in PvP given equal skill and gear, etc. I know Juggs can get defense points and all that, but I did the PVP tank thing in WAR, and it's...well, not nearly as satisfying as burning stuff down.

[Benjiole]

I think I'm going to have to just roll one of both. I prefer the aesthetics of the Juggernaut by a factor of around a thousand, but Marauders just seem...well, too damn good. Easier leveling, deadlier in PvP given equal skill and gear, etc. I know Juggs can get defense points and all that, but I did the PVP tank thing in WAR, and it's...well, not nearly as satisfying as burning stuff down.

 

Until they get balanced in a future patch.

[xarynn]

I don't get where this "levelling a Jugg is slow" has come from. My current Jugg is Immortal specced and levelling him has been a blast.

 

I run as part of a regular group on one night of the week and we were suffering for lack of a Tank when we did our heroic missions (we had 2 Mara's, 1 Sniper and a Sorcerer) it was not pretty if the mobs were non-droids. So by the time we reached the latter half of Taris' main arc I dropped my Mara' and started a Jugg (I already have a BH at 50), his levelling went like a rocket, it only took 9 days of casual play (and some route planning to make things more efficient) to get him to L35 and ready to join the group as we assaulted the area around the Republic starport.

 

With Quinn backing you up the Juggernaut has virtually zero downtime, thing don't die quite as quickly but you get much more control over the fights and can handle situations where a Mara' would have to flee or die. They really do match their name, a mercilessly destructive and unstoppable force.

 

Note: I don't recommend doing 35 levels in 9 days as anything resembling normal play. I know the play through to Taris well enough to skip through conversations so much of my Jugg's time on the chapter 1 planets was a bit of a lightsaber filled blur, but it does demonstrate the potential speed at which a Jugg can level with little pushing. If you actually take an interest in the story (as I had with my Mara' up to the point I swapped) or don't plan ahead much when carrying out missions then things will be slower.

 

Note 2!: Pommel Strike! Remember Pommel Strike when levelling. It may be near useless in Ops and HMs but for levelling it's golden for quickly dispatching a bothersome minion so you can focus on the Strong or Elite you just charged.

[olemanbourbon]

I have a 31 marauder and a 29 jugg, and while the jugg doesn't hit with as much burst, it seems just as good a class in general. In pvp, many of the jugg's assets are not measurable, ie aoe ccs, push, etc, but are still very important.

 

I think the Jugg is actually more fun than the marauder, so far. It's nice to have the toughness the marauder lacks. The burst is decent, not terribad, as some claim. I have topped the WZ in damage a few times as a Jugg and i have yet to get my money skills.

Edited July 9, 2012 by olemanbourbon

[Namo-Wamo]

My Jugg is only 31, and I haven't PvPed on him much, however I often envy Juggs in endgame PvP on my assassin. Rage-specced smash is absolutely devastating. Marauders are capable of unmatched 1 v 1 outright numbers, however hitting multiple enemies for 5.5k+ as a tank-based AC sounds too much fun to pass up to me.

 

Just food for thought.