Stavroz Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Roll DPS, try to kill a Guarded Operative healer then tell me if healing is useless. It's not, you just have to work together with tanks. Nailed it! Try to kill an Guarded OPERATIVE. This is why all the top rated teams prefer scoundral/operatives over sage/sorcs healers Soft cast heals mean they can heal on the move with no fear of interrupts. Underworld medicine > Deliverance. Faster cast time approx same healing output.(in heals spec which is the spec we are dealing with) Vanish oh **** emergency now u see me now you don't. Defensive cool downs like Defensive screen and Dodge. and most important they start in stealth so DPS have no choice but to engage an operative later in the fight where as if they see a sorc/sage they ignore the whole team and bum rush him in the opening stages of combat. The problem is not "healers". Its sage/sorcs. Don't get me wrong a sage that is allowed to freecast will put out every bit as much healing as a commando or scoundral healer. Their output is very very similar. The Problem is in a PvP environment the Sage/Sorc is put at a disadvantage due to hard cast heals and survivability in comparison to the other 2 classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 So what would happen if we took away your ability to be uninterruptible and your 25% damage reduction, along with the weakest armor type in the game... Then tell him the same thing Some people dont understand logic. I have been playing a Commando Medic since launch. They are still hard to kill however due to the lack of mobility its easy to block most of the classes out going heals. I find myself kiting and self healing more than healing my group. In the end I am alive but 5 of my team just died. You guys have it harder due to the squishy factor but at least you have a bit more mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Why does expertise buff dmg output more than heal output then? And the problem is that the substained dmg (through relicts and augments) went up a lot and the few burst phases (every 2 min) did go away. LMAO expertise does NOTHING for DMG Bonus DMG is completely negated by Mitigation Bonus Healing reduces trauma (which is better than just a pure bonus btw) Expertise ONLY effects healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 So what would happen if we took away your ability to be uninterruptible and your 25% damage reduction, along with the weakest armor type in the game... Then tell him the same thing hes a merc healer. lrn2read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annex Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 LMAO expertise does NOTHING for DMG Expertise ONLY effects healers. You honestly believe this? Wow. Stop posting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 LMAO expertise does NOTHING for DMG Bonus DMG is completely negated by Mitigation Bonus Healing reduces trauma (which is better than just a pure bonus btw) Expertise ONLY effects healers. again: DMG bonus = Mitigation bonus ^^ just false i have 1046 expertise dmg boost 20.52% dmg reduction 17.03% and a heal boost of 11.3% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nailed it! Try to kill an Guarded OPERATIVE. Why do we have to rely on another role? How would a dps react, if he had to have another role with him to do anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 again: DMG bonus = Mitigation bonus ^^ just false i have 1046 expertise dmg boost 20.52% dmg reduction 17.03% and a heal boost of 11.3% sigh.... What is this 1.2 launch all over again? Do the damn math before making false posts. PLAYER 1 does 1000 dmg to PLAYER 2 20% boost to DMG = PLAYER 1 does 1200 dmg to PLAYER 2 17% boos to Mitigation = PLAYER 1 DOES 998 dmh to PLAYER 2 For healing PLAYER 1 heals PLAYER 2 for 1000 HP Add 10% healing = PLAYER 1 Heals PLAYER 2 for 1200HP see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 You honestly believe this? Wow. Stop posting now. you honestly didnt know this? WOW. stop playing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 sigh.... What is this 1.2 launch all over again? The problem is the amount of healer nerfs in 1.2 was way over the top. If they nerfed things step by step you would have less people complain. But if you nerf the classes, nerf healing and boost dps at the same time in a way they did it, it will cause rage. Like they nerfed the tank assassin in 1.3, they nerfed at the wrong end and they did armor and self heal in one patch. Instead of nerfing a bit and then watch how it works, then nerf it a little further when it's still op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) My friend has hit over a million healed in voidstar on his sage post 1.3, though to be fair, he is using full war hero gear with mods maxed for efficiency. Edited July 5, 2012 by unixbomber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annex Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 you honestly didnt know this? WOW. stop playing now. Right, I took your post as literal (ie expertise doesnt not affect damage - obviously wrong). You meant it doesnt affect damage vs mitigation if each player has exactly same expertise. My bad I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovia Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 i ve seen healers getting 800k healing in RWZs with 3 dps focusing them 25/8, its not a gear issue, its not a skill issue, its an issue of proper teamwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 i ve seen healers getting 800k healing in RWZs with 3 dps focusing them 25/8, its not a gear issue, its not a skill issue, its an issue of proper teamwork. which doesn't really exist in pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphobia Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 i ve seen healers getting 800k healing in RWZs with 3 dps focusing them 25/8, its not a gear issue, its not a skill issue, its an issue of proper teamwork. Let me guess. An Operative with a private tank assisting him with guard/taunt/peel/cc. Oh, and there is no teamwork in PuG's, so this wont work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnsTwoThree Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 My friend has hit over a million healed in voidstar on his sage post 1.3, though to be fair, he is using full war hero gear with mods maxed for efficiency. In Ranked? Otherwise it is still possible under perfect conditions in regular. Any healer can have very good games still if given the opportunity. The thing were discussing is the fact we're weak when we aren't allowed to free-cast (which we never should). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphobia Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) My friend has hit over a million healed in voidstar on his sage post 1.3, though to be fair, he is using full war hero gear with mods maxed for efficiency. I've hit nearly 1.1mio in Alderaan a week after 1.2 came out (2 WH set pieces, other stuff BM, not even close to maxed out). Nothing special, just AoE-whoring while getting completely ignored by the enemy team. This won't work in Rateds as you will never be able to land the AoE and as anyone will move most of the time. Edited July 5, 2012 by iphobia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tathais Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) This is silly.. I've already taken quite a few 5k hits but my screenshot key doesn't work in pvp. *sigh* Honestly, has anybody else experienced this? It was working in fleet, then I went into a WZ and now it's not... neither in the WZ nor in fleet. Edited July 5, 2012 by Tathais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 This is silly.. I've already taken quite a few 5k hits but my screenshot key doesn't work in pvp. *sigh* Honestly, has anybody else experienced this? It was working in fleet, then I went into a WZ and now it's not... neither in the WZ nor in fleet. Check your screenshot folder in users/swtor/screenshots sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tathais Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Check your screenshot folder in users/swtor/screenshots sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. yea that's where I'm at. I press the button and nothing goes there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tathais Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Anyway, some corrections to my previous data.... BM Set minus three pieces: Ear, 2nd Implant, Chest Current Expertise: 1101 Max Deliverance in WZ: 4000 (for 2.22s cast) Unbuffed HP: 14900 Also, average comms for a loss tonight appears to be around 40, not 80 like originally calculated. Just saying. I think that's all... no updates on the screenshots. I found a thread with other people saying they had the same problem, but haven't found a resolution yet. Edited July 6, 2012 by Tathais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think overall Mercs are about balanced for healing. They've only one trick (Energy Shield) but it's a very powerful trick. They can be killed but often not very easily. If they're guarded you actually have to pay attention to where their tank is and think about how to deal with them (powering through guard is a perfectly valid option, btw). Sorcs have far too little survivality and basically die when two good DPS chase after them, even while guarded. Operative is too extreme to both ends. They're really awesome against bad teams but can be taken out really fast if the enemy DPS is on the same class as you. Guard is not effective for Operative because LoS, the Operative's staple tool to avoid DPS, applies to your own Guard as well. I mean, you still want to Guard them but you don't get as much mileage compared to a Merc. Generally speaking Operatives are godlike if the number of good DPS they have is equal to or less than the number of healer + guards you have. So for example if you run an Op/Sorc healer + 2 guards, then they'd need 5 good DPS to defeat you. However, if you run into the team with 5 good DPS you'll still get crushed rather easily. Note that unless your team has only healers + tanks, it is always possible for the enemy to have enough good DPS to accomplish this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXPORTERS Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Roll a Ops/Smuggler healer...problem solved..all healing will balanced out. BW doesn't appear to be interested in Sage or Commando healing...they just keep nerfing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Your thread title suggests that you were fully geared. Then I get hear and your saying you dont even have full BM (basically free) I'll respond to your other post when I get home, and yes, you are a liar if you are saying DPSers can do 16k dmg in 4 seconds. As someone in part BM/ part WH, fully augmented- I'll collaborate. A DPS can do 16k in 4 seconds. However- that would be best abilities, CDs up, 25%sent damage boost, and luck on getting full crits- plus, likely stunned while CC breaker is done by another player. 10k+ damage in three GCD however is much more common and reasonable to achieve. Two DPS on you thus means you are dead in two hits- 3 seconds. That's not enough time to counter or react, and there's multiple ways to get that, many of which cannot be countered or can only be countered temporarily- you just delay the inevitable because they'll come back with more. Also- at 30% health you're simply dead because most classes have an instant, ranged execute- a DPS only has to get through 70% of your health, so about 13-14k damage. Smash+blade storm+X Gore+Ravage+X pre readied thermal, Rail Shot+Rocket+Rail Shot etc.... In the span of a single heal, many DPS can both interrupt that heal and deal 3 times more damage on average than that heal would heal on average. It can also only get worse from here. Between Champ or Recruit and the current augmented WH- DPS have seen their big hits go from 3k to 6-7k, doubling. Healers have seen their big heals go from 4k to 5k... 25% increase. Healing scales under half as fast as damage does, and to top it off- it scales an additional 30% slower than DPS due to trauma, though that ends up being about 20% slower with expertise... but expertise also takes up a stat slot. So, next gear increase, damage will be up to 8-9k hits, while healing will be up to what, 5.5k? Maybe full WH would get that- so a full whatever's next would get up to 6k. Currently- in my gear, mostly BM with WH, augmented- I can hit a 5.5k heal outside of pvp combat- in combat I cannot hit the 5k heal medal even with DI... I have to wait til I'm out of combat, life tap a few times and get a 5k heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tathais Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) @Khoraji http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrwqD2OajLQ Since I can't take screenshots, here's someone pouring out a ton of PvP damage. No double 5k crits, but quite a lot of singles, and a few double 4k to 4.5k. He does get one 6500 crit as well (the video makes it look like two but I'm pretty sure it's just a recut of the same footage). If you watch the numbers flying out, there's a lot more happening than 1 hit per GCD as well. I can't keep up with that. Be interesting to see from a PT perspective, since I know their railshots hit 5k and they have talents to boost the crit chance of it, as well as reset the cooldown. I'd imagine double 5k crit is a more likely scenario for that AC. Anyway, the bottom line is, you wanted to see players melting under crazy DPS, there it is. Also, thanks to the guy above for posting. I know I'm not making this stuff up, but apparently I'm untrustworthy or something... >.> Edited July 6, 2012 by Tathais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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